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[LittleBigGamer]

To be fair, would you expect him to publicly say "getting it to work correctly is a pain in the arse" if that was the case?

he could not answer.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

You guys need new bullet points, the 9.2TF nonsense is old.

Mark Cerny said that variability at most would be 1-2%, not 10%. So we are talking 10TF lows and 10.3TF highs.

10.07 low, 10.275 high. I really don't like the 10.3 round-off because it's disingenuous to say the least.

 

[iJudged]

I think everyone should watch that coretecks video, so in depth.

Extremely pleasing especially if your a PlayStation fan, the fact that the guy is a pc guy and has no biased towards either console developer makes makes him comments carry even more weight.

Getting right on that as soon as I finish watching his video on how to get 100k subscribers fast

 

[iJudged]

X fans complaining about a thread but triggered enough to post in it. All those pent up emotions bursting in the seems.

Pretty sure people are just sick and tired of seeing same shit every.fkn.day

 

[onQ123]

What are you talking about?
Looking better? No of course not.
Getting loaded faster? Of course, yes.

Asset streaming and graphic rendering are 2 different disciplines.
They have some overlap in some instances, but they're fundamentally different.
The games can get better, but not the graphics. Just hook up a 10GB/s sever farm PCIe SSD to a low end GPU.
How good do you think that game will look?

If you just hook a SSD up & play a game that's made the old way you're not going to get this result but if you have a console that's built around having a fast I/O & you design the game to use the RAM for what's happening in the next second & not load it up with what might be needed for 30 or more seconds you will have higher quality assets.

You really don't think 4GB used for 1 second can give you better looking quality than having to use that 4GB for everything you will need in over 30 seconds of game play?

 

[sircaw]

Getting right on that as soon as I finish watching his video on how to get 100k subscribers fast

The guys been making videos for years but what ever floats your boat.

 

[FranXico]

Pretty sure people are just sick and tired of seeing same shit every.fkn.day

Couldn't have said it better myself. On this I agree.

 

[FranXico]

I think everyone should watch that coretecks video, so in depth.

Extremely pleasing especially if your a PlayStation fan, the fact that the guy is a pc guy and has no biased towards either console developer makes makes him comments carry even more weight.

If anything, judging from his previous videos, that guy is a bit of an AMD fanboy.

 

[FranXico]

Destroying? You're in for a big disappointment

I would say mild disappointment. Probably. It will consistently perform better in most 3rd party games. The difference might just not be as dramatic as he hopes.

 

[sircaw]

If anything, judging from his previous videos, that guy is a bit an AMD fanboy.

Could well be, i guess there is good reason of late, with these super new consoles looking so good, zen doing well and their new big navi i think its called on the way.

If you like amd, you have alot to be happy about.

 

[martino]

Could well be, i guess there is good reason of late, with these super new consoles looking so good, zen doing well and their new big navi i think its called on the way.

If you like amd, you have alot to be happy about.

calling checkmate with neither the brand you like or the competition having reveals the products and no data to see what they deliver....seems like most of the things in threads like this one in fact.

 

[Rolling_Start]

Mark Cerny said that variability at most would be 1-2%, not 10%. So we are talking 10TF lows and 10.3TF highs.

No he didn't. He did not say variability would at most be 1-2%.

He did not say that.

That is not a thing he said.

That thing that you say was said was never said.

 

[fallingdove]

10.07 low, 10.275 high. I really don't like the 10.3 round-off because it's disingenuous to say the least.

It really isn’t disingenuous — that’s how rounding works. I get it that it triggers Xbox fanboys because you want to emphasize the TF gap as much as you can. It’s the same reason people are continuing to point to the months old github leak to try and draw comparisons. It makes you feel better.

That said, I do appreciate how reasonable you typically are in these discussions Thicc.

 

[prinz_valium]

If you just hook a SSD up & play a game that's made the old way you're not going to get this result but if you have a console that's built around having a fast I/O & you design the game to use the RAM for what's happening in the next second & not load it up with what might be needed for 30 or more seconds you will have higher quality assets.

You really don't think 4GB used for 1 second can give you better looking quality than having to use that 4GB for everything you will need in over 30 seconds of game play?

Everything you load still has to be rendered.
Yes it helps that you don't need to load as much into VRAM anymore and have a virtually bigger one, but all the best assets still need to be rendered. Even 100% pre baked assets. Just the strain on the GPU is different for different rendering techniques. So rendering pre baked stuff is cheaper and if you can load more that helps. But the GPU will determine how good the game looks.


Let's put it that way. The CPU has more effect on how good a game looks compared to the IO speed.
And even a lot of people would argue the CPU hast no affect on how good a game looks. It's just needed to feed and being indirectly related.
The same is true for the IO speed and were talking about best case scenarios where asset streaming has more of an effect.


Those SSD's are the best thing in the new consoles. They make the most difference for day to day use with instant access.
But if you believe they make games magically look better without the needed GPU power or could somewhat offset the power difference, you fool yourself.
I'm really curious how one would do that. I want to see the code or at least a whitepaper abaut that.
Did the person in this YT video really claims that?

It really isn’t disingenuous — that’s how rounding works. I get it that it triggers Xbox fanboys because you want to emphasize the TF gap as much as you can. It’s the same reason people are continuing to point to the months old github leak to try and draw comparisons. It makes you feel better.

That said, I do appreciate how reasonable you typically are in these discussions Thicc.

But the same people often say Series X is 12TF while it would be 12.2TF if you round up to the first decimal.
If you round up one by 24,000 flops and the other down by 147,000 flops your math gets fucked.

Ps5 is 10.28 (rounded up by 4.160 flops)
Series X is 12.15 (rounded up by 2.800 flops)

 

[Urprobablyright]

I'm not currently in a mental place where i can accept listening to simulated voices using fake accents and faux chuckles for minutes on end~

Am optimistic about PS5 however

 

[Hobbygaming]

I would say mild disappointment. Probably. It will consistently perform better in most 3rd party games. The difference might just not be as dramatic as he hopes.

Yep, that's what I'm alluding to. There won't be any destroying

 

[Sacred]

Wait till both consoles are released, right now all we have is conjecture and it is really making the desperation and reaching sounds completely ridiculous.

 

[eastwood333]

I will translate for you.... XBox games are terrible. No amount of power will make them any better. Have fun with the spec sheet!

A link to Xbox's latest gaming triumph!

Bleeding Edge Reviews

From the studio behind DmC: Devil May Cry and Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice comes Bleeding Edge, a fast and frenetic 4v4 team brawler where every fighter comes mechanically enhanced for mayhem! Choose your fighter from a diverse cast of colorful characters from the edges of society: burn rubber...

www.metacritic.com

Now now, are we really pretending Ori Will of the Wisp (90 Metacritic score) didn't just come out?

 

[Bryank75]

Now now, are we really pretending Ori Will of the Wisp (90 Metacritic score) didn't just come out?

That's 2D....

Just kidding, I'm just having fun with you guys. As long as consoles are doing good, I'm happy!

 

[eastwood333]

This is going to be a tough year for the xfans, if they are already butthurt.

Butthurt for having the more powerful console? That's a new take.

 

[fallingdove]

Everything you load still has to be rendered.
Yes it helps that you don't need to load as much into VRAM anymore and have a virtually bigger one, but all the best assets still need to be rendered. Even 100% pre baked assets. Just the strain on the GPU is different for different rendering techniques. So rendering pre baked stuff is cheaper and if you can load more that helps. But the GPU will determine how good the game looks.


Let's put it that way. The CPU has more effect on how good a game looks compared to the IO speed.
And even a lot of people would argue the CPU hast no affect on how good a game looks. It's just needed to feed and being indirectly related.
The same is true for the IO speed and were talking about best case scenarios where asset streaming has more of an effect.


Those SSD's are the best thing in the new consoles. They make the most difference for day to day use with instant access.
But if you believe they make games magically look better without the needed GPU power or could somewhat offset the power difference, you fool yourself.
I'm really curious how one would do that. I want to see the code or at least a whitepaper abaut that.
Did the person in this YT video really claims that?



But the same people often say Series X is 12TF while it would be 12.2TF if you round up to the first decimal.
If you round up one by 24,000 flops and the other down by 147,000 flops your math gets fucked.

Ps5 is 10.28 (rounded up by 4.160 flops)
Series X is 12.15 (rounded up by 2.800 flops)

As long as we are discussing data provided by Microsoft and Sony, I think it’s fine to compare specs to the hundredths decimal point.

Its pure fanboy fud when you start comparing 12.15TF to a rumored TF figure from 6 months ago.

 

[Elenchus]

People are so fixated in both numbers and just don’t want to understand there’s way more that that for the PS5. Once they do other people will move on.

Yes. We know. It’s not just a SSD. It’s mystical. It’s magical.

It’s the power of...

Yea we got it.

We got it the first dozen times...

 

[joe_zazen]

I love console wars... are you having fun?

wish i did. Gives me a headache reading lies disingenuous shit. I think i finally understand that whole posting in bad faith thing.

 

[prinz_valium]

As long as we are discussing data provided by Microsoft and Sony, I think it’s fine to compare specs to the hundredths decimal point.

Its pure fanboy fud when you start comparing 12.15TF to a rumored TF figure from 6 months ago.

Not sure I get your point here.
Im just saying how bad the one decimal >=5 round up and <5 round down rule is.

1.049 and 1.051 first decimal rounded is 1 and 1.1 with a 10% difference. The actual difference is just 0.19% tho.
It gets bad really fast.

 

[Neofire]

Lol like literally the first 10 posts were filled with certain people saying that the SSD won't matter or that the ps5 is 9.2 not 10.2 from it having heat issues etc etc.

We seem to have alot of people who have worked with the ps5 hardware on Gaf they already know the ends and outs of the system even before the full specs are out .

FUD aside noone is saying at all that the ps5 is more powerful then the XSX over all, period.

 

[sneas78]

I think Both console warriors are in Denial. Sony fans Xsx more TF doesn’t matter and Xbox fans saying custom everything Sony is doing and lower gpu is weaker xsx>ps5.

 

[Rolling_Start]

I think Both console warriors are in Denial.

That is the natural state of things, my dude.

 

[93xfan]

I keep seeing tech people saying Series x is better for variable rate shading and Ray tracing due to having more cores. Is this confirmed or at least the general consensus?

 

[Jtibh]

I agree with you, I like DF less for engaging and showing bias and fanboyism.

This tool alex is a biased idiot.
I cant stand him at all.
He is not complimenting the df team in any way.

I stoppes watching cuz of him and i am sure i am not the only one.

 

[Neofire]

DF is not a no-name youtuber though. They regard themselves as professional outlet. Hence my disappointment with them engaging in silly console wars instead of disseminating information through objective analysis.

We all know DF has some type of special relationship with Microsoft, it's evident. Like you said, they claim to be professional but are acting the way they are is a bit comical.

Some People in this thread are commenting on the XSX as though they have worked with the hardware and are getting checks from Microsoft. We get you like the Xbox or Playstation but we have do better as a Gaf community.

The guy posted a summation(his opinion) of the two consoles and nothing more. Yet people can not stand that he didn't bow down to the xsx's power.

 

[Rolling_Start]

I keep seeing tech people saying Series x is better for variable rate shading and Ray tracing due to having more cores. Is this confirmed or at least the general consensus?

Not sure there is a meaningful consensus at the moment.

SXS definitely has VRS. PS5 might, or might not. Sony haven't been in a hurry to confirm it.

Having more cores might be a benefit for RT if it means more L1 cache and benefits from more L2 cache... and if memory latency is a significant factor in performance.

But for all we know RT performance might more closely mirror GPU TFlops, in which case PS5 won't be that far behind XSX.

There's still a lot to be seen. Proof of the pudding is in the eating, and all that!

 

[onQ123]

Everything you load still has to be rendered.
Yes it helps that you don't need to load as much into VRAM anymore and have a virtually bigger one, but all the best assets still need to be rendered. Even 100% pre baked assets. Just the strain on the GPU is different for different rendering techniques. So rendering pre baked stuff is cheaper and if you can load more that helps. But the GPU will determine how good the game looks.


Let's put it that way. The CPU has more effect on how good a game looks compared to the IO speed.
And even a lot of people would argue the CPU hast no affect on how good a game looks. It's just needed to feed and being indirectly related.
The same is true for the IO speed and were talking about best case scenarios where asset streaming has more of an effect.


Those SSD's are the best thing in the new consoles. They make the most difference for day to day use with instant access.
But if you believe they make games magically look better without the needed GPU power or could somewhat offset the power difference, you fool yourself.
I'm really curious how one would do that. I want to see the code or at least a whitepaper abaut that.
Did the person in this YT video really claims that?

Who said anything about not needing GPU power?


The point is that a frame textured with 90MB of textures is going to look better than a frame textured with 3MB of textures

 

[FranXico]

I keep seeing tech people saying Series x is better for variable rate shading and Ray tracing due to having more cores. Is this confirmed or at least the general consensus?

Ray tracing, for sure. That definitely improves with more CUs.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I love how at the start of this gen we all loved DF because they repeatedly gave PS4 owners fodder for list warz with constant videos and articles pointing out small advantages to PS4 titles. But now they provide real talk about the new hardware without relying on hearsay or maybes or hopes and dreams and suddenly they’re biased and in bed with MS

 

[Elenchus]

You guys need new bullet points, the 9.2TF nonsense is old.

Mark Cerny said that variability at most would be 1-2%, not 10%. So we are talking 10TF lows and 10.3TF highs.

Doesn’t matter what Cerny claims until he shows a functioning box really. PowerPoint slides are fine a few years out but this is the launch year.

 

[Vroadstar]

Who is this guy? A random YouTuber?

I love his blog:

How to get 100K subscribers on YouTube – Coreteks

coreteks.tech

seriously though, do we really need a thread for every YouTube video and tweet? Why not a single OT with all the YouTube/twitter posts about SSD and call it a day?

Another X troll throwaway alt account his 11th and counting banned. Some X fans pent up emotions for 7 years in the gutter really are pathetic

 

[Jon Neu]

Xbox fans when PS5 games benchmark better than XSX's:

Your reaction when you found out multiplatform games are going to be better on X.

Cerny is not a Sony employee, he's an external consultant.

He is still working for Sony and it's even far more invested than any other regular employee.

 

[JustP_Gaming]

He is a PC guy.

Don't you guys find it strange that PS5 is exciting for Developers who create games and always praised by unbiased people? eg PC only YTers and other gaming channels.

There might be a reason for that which is the mighty impressive SSD and the I/O block that keeps bottlenecks to the minimum.

Reality will set in for both side soon enough, this console war is just getting started.

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Nobodys bashing PS5. They're just stating XSX is more powerful. Stating facts and bashing are two separate things.

XSX is 12TF sustained at all times for devs to play with. PS5 is more like 9.2tf with the potential to temporarily boost to 10.2tf for the Michael Bay moments. However, the console will not be able to stay in boost reaching up 10.2 at all times without major heating issues,hence the need for variable clocks. Its really straight forward

That is the exact opposite of how it was presented from the guy who made it

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

Nobodys bashing PS5. They're just stating XSX is more powerful. Stating facts and bashing are two separate things.

XSX is 12TF sustained at all times for devs to play with. PS5 is more like 9.2tf with the potential to temporarily boost to 10.2tf for the Michael Bay moments. However, the console will not be able to stay in boost reaching up 10.2 at all times without major heating issues,hence the need for variable clocks. Its really straight forward

Are you colteastwood from YouTube? The hardcore Xbox fanboy?

Because you certainly sound like him.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Nobodys bashing PS5. They're just stating XSX is more powerful. Stating facts and bashing are two separate things.

XSX is 12TF sustained at all times for devs to play with. PS5 is more like 9.2tf with the potential to temporarily boost to 10.2tf for the Michael Bay moments. However, the console will not be able to stay in boost reaching up 10.2 at all times without major heating issues,hence the need for variable clocks. Its really straight forward

Man said the Michael Bay moments!!! I'm dying over here.

 

[Bernkastel]

That was Tom Warren you absolute knob.
If you're going to argue shit atleast get your facts right, jesus

I literally posted Jason's ResetEra post after that. Tom Warren only said Microsoft will surprise Sony(I posted that on NeoGaf).

 

[HarryKS]

Fifa, Madden, NHL are gonna look exactly the same on both consoles, hope you guys understand that.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It really isn’t disingenuous — that’s how rounding works. I get it that it triggers Xbox fanboys because you want to emphasize the TF gap as much as you can. It’s the same reason people are continuing to point to the months old github leak to try and draw comparisons. It makes you feel better.

That said, I do appreciate how reasonable you typically are in these discussions Thicc.

You don't round CPUs and GPUs by the nearest tenth when that can literally be indicative of certain performance metrics being met or not met. And I state my numbers pretty honestly: 10.275 PS5, 12.147 XSX. Those are more honest numbers.

But if I were a fanboy like you want to pretend I was, I'd be going with 12.15 and pushing some theory on PS5's clock dropping below the 2% threshold Cerny listed in his presentation. Goes to show how much you know. Now enjoy this ignore.

We all know DF has some type of special relationship with Microsoft, it's evident. Like you said, they claim to be professional but are acting the way they are is a bit comical.

Some People in this thread are commenting on the XSX as though they have worked with the hardware and are getting checks from Microsoft. We get you like the Xbox or Playstation but we have do better as a Gaf community.

The guy posted a summation(his opinion) of the two consoles and nothing more. Yet people can not stand that he didn't bow down to the xsx's power.

Then why did Cerny decide to do an interview with DF that'll be rolling out in video form within the next couple of weeks?

Like, damn, the amount of sheer stupidity from console fanboys on this forum since that Wednesday has been absolutely insane. I know this coronavirus stuff and the lockdowns might be messing with some of you guys but the level of baseless accusations and near-trolling bias has been very strong since then. I see it with some of the Xbox people but the PlayStation ones are being FAR worst at it, just like how it got in the Next-Gen speculation thread at quite a few points.

Might be time for me to move on if this is going to be the average level of next-gen console discussion around here. Maybe in a couple weeks some of you'll come to your senses. Probably not, though.

 

[GucchiMink]

I think it's time for everyone on the internet to live with the fact about XSX has a better specs than PS5.

12tflops vs 10.3tflops = only 14% difference

PS5 SSD vs Xbox SSD = 129% difference

Hmmm, i dont know where you were taught math, but 129 is a much greater number then 14.

Unless 14% has now somehow become greater then 129%, the only clear advantage is for the PS5.

So yes that reality needs to be accepted.

Add the fact of diminishing returns and that 14% in the GPUs basically amounts to nothing (and the CPUs are basically the exact same)

I dont know about you, but give me a much more powerful SSD in a much better more efficiently designed console, over a 14% of diminishing returns brute force tflops increase, any day of the week

 

[sendit]

Nobodys bashing PS5. They're just stating XSX is more powerful. Stating facts and bashing are two separate things.

XSX is 12TF sustained at all times for devs to play with. PS5 is more like 9.2tf with the potential to temporarily boost to 10.2tf for the Michael Bay moments. However, the console will not be able to stay in boost reaching up 10.2 at all times without major heating issues,hence the need for variable clocks. Its really straight forward

Agreed. This is great to hear! Do you know if there is away to tell if I'm getting exactly 12 TeraFlops when playing a game like Crackdown 3? I'd love to know that I'm getting what I paid for.

 

[SatansReverence]

Hmmm, i dont know where you were taught math, but 129 is a much greater number then 14.

Psst, games aren't rendered on the SSD.

I dont know about you, but give me a much more powerful SSD in a much better more efficiently designed console, over a 14% of diminishing returns brute force tflops increase, any day of the week

The console that cannot maintain it's clock speeds and has to downclock one component to power/cool another is, in no way, a more efficiently designed console.

 

[Sosokrates]

If the GPU cannot render it what's the point?
Yes the SSD is the fastest in the world but the GPU/ memory BUS is at a 5700xt level. Ms knows that, where the GPU/CPU can read much faster than the SSD can from ram(DDR6).

What im saying is, that how powerful the cpu and gpu is will determine how good graphics can look.
If the PS4 had 1tb of ram, it would still be limited by the polycount and effects the cpu + gpu can draw and render.

 

[Neo_game]

The reason he is seems more excited about PS5 is because of exclusive games developed for it. Which is obviously fair enough as he is a PC guy so he can have all Xbox game day1 anyways. Though he seems to be biased toward AMD and he was also mocking nvidia for its 700$ gpu. Saying console are better deal. In a way that is also true.

 

[GucchiMink]

The so called devs excited for PS5 are either PS5 first party devs or ex-first party devs. The rest are just "both are good" and being quoted as devs excited for PS5. XSX on the other hand had a ex-Guerilla Games and ex-Space X/Valve guy praising them for being better. If you are to quote this youtuber then I will also say Austin Evans said XSX is significantly better.

First off, anyone who says the 1X is "significantly better" instantly discredits themselves, and can no longer be taken seriously. Tflops isn't a meaningful metric or any kind of good measure for performance. 14% is negligible as it is. Diminishing returns cuts even more into that negligible 14%.

Its amazing how some keep trying to play up that 14% as some "huge difference," yet have the nerve to ignore or downplay a 129% advantage for the PS5 (ssds)

Apparently 14% is now greater then 129%.

Your post was a very bad disingenuous post in bad faith. That "Guerilla Games guy" hasn't worked at Guerilla in 20 years. Hes not even a game developer currently. And he literally has a partnership with Microsoft (and he follows Timdog on Twitter). So he is about as untrustworthy and unreliable of a source as you can ever get lol

But It's funny how that 1 account suddenly means more then the countless actual real developers all praising the PS5 more. Talk about desperately grapsing at straws.

You know, this guy is neither Sony 1st party nor ex-1st party

I've never seen anyone call the 1X that. That's just facts

Neither is this guy 1st party or ex-1st party

Youre trying to create your own false narratives. You are literally pushing FUD. The fact is, developers are far more excited for PS5, and theres a reason why.

And btw, speaking in regards to the other testimonials, If You want to discount the words of Sony 1st party developers, even though they are some of the greatest minds in gaming and among some of the greatest developers in gaming, then discard any and all opinions from xbox developers.

Sony 1st parties make GOTY games, so their opinions matter the most you could say

The fact that Xbox developers aren't even that excited about Xbox Hardward say something very profound in itself. Because 1x is just more of the same. All they do is tow the company line, the generic "more powerful then PS5" spiel. Meanwhile Sony developers are giddy with excitement over PS5 (and 3rd party developers as well). That says something.

Whats funnier is, people are saying "just accept reality about the tflop difference"

Yet its these people who have the most difficult time accepting the reality that the PS5 is the more talked about system, and the better designed more efficient system that has developers much more excited

Its those people who cant accept the reality that the PS5 has it's own advantages

They need to start with accepting those realities.

No one is denying a 14% difference. What most reasonable people are saying is that that difference doesnt matter and that tflops arent relevant