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$12 per hour the norm for entry-level video game industry positions (@GungHo Online)?

B

bomblord1

Banned
I get paid more than that for a position that required a bachelor's degree with significantly better benefits (I already have over 2 weeks of vacation time built up and get more added weekly based on how much I work, also have employer paid health care with free doctor visits, discounted gym memberships and much more) in an area with about 1/4 the cost of living of California and I'm considered underpaid for what I do.

So yes that is incredibly low unless they have some insane growth opportunity.
 
S

SliceSabre

Banned
They are fucking insane at the wage and requiring a BA and bilingual. My fucking entry level job that doesn't even require a degree started me higher than that and I live in Ohio and my benefits are better.
 
W

watdaeff4

Member
I have a grand total of 20 days of PTO which is my bank to use for Vacation, Personal, Sick AND Holidays........


I work 10 hour shifts though and only work every other week (7 on/7 off) while getting paid a few thousand more than usual full-time
 
C

Calm Killer

In all media, only true fans who consume every book, film, game, or pog collection deserve to know what's going on.
I would say it is relative to where you live. For California that is probably a terrible starting wage. For where I live, that would be a pretty normal starting job price. 11 years ago with a BS I started at 10.30.

I get 8 hours of vacation time every pay check and like 4 hours of sick. (this increases every 5 years) I am sitting on 200 hours of vacation time right now and about the same sick.
 
I

III-V

Member
@$12/hr in California you will just barely scrape by if you are responsible for rent, food, etc. You can forget about children at that rate.
 
W

witchedwiz

Member
llehuty said:
I don't know where you live in Italy, but living costs are probably going to be way higher in California.
Click to expand...

I live in Milan :X
so ok, living costs are higher in cali, but if you want to buy an apartment in Milan, even in the crappiest zones will go for 3,5k eur +vat per square meter..
god forbid you want the house in some fancier zones like buonarroti etc.. then we're looking at 5.5k +vat per square meter :)

that's basically the reason why I won't stay in Milan long.. I dislike be the "renter" of an apartment as a concept, you're basically paying for someone else's mortgage...
I've been in Milan for 5 years and half, and by now I should be looking for an apartment to buy, but at those prices considering the medium wages, it's not really worth it.. and consider I'm 32 and *well* over the median wage, but it's not worth it anyway..

In italy the housing cost in the main cities is TOTALLY disconnected from median salary, but I assume it's a common problem in the "western" model...
 
DryvBy

DryvBy

Member
The Lamp said:
Yeah that pay seems pretty low. The benefits are a little bit better.

A bachelor's degree and all those responsibilities and bilingual for $12 an hour though? Lol fuck that. Man this industry has problems.
Click to expand...

My dad and brother don't have a associates or bachelor's and make really, really good money. I work in a call center (until the end of the week) and the amount of people with a bachelor's making less than me is amazing.
 
M

Megasoum

Banned
The Lamp said:
Yeah that pay seems pretty low. The benefits are a little bit better.

A bachelor's degree and all those responsibilities and bilingual for $12 an hour though? Lol fuck that. Man this industry has problems.
Click to expand...

I mean... The industry has issues for sure but it's not like that everywhere.

I work for a big gaming studio in Montreal. I started there with 3 weeks of vacation, 10 sick days and 3 "float days" that I can use anytime I want.
 
N

NoblesseOblige

Banned
To me those benefits make it on par to a higher paid position, but they still sounds super low for the requirements, especially considering it's in the LA area. That said, I have no idea who GungHo Online is, but I'm assuming they're some low-risk developer that is basically all about maximizing profits and minimizing cost.
 
I

Illucio

Banned
Nobody stays at Gungho for long, even watch their livestreams for PAD, so many people leave after a short amount of time.

Best way to describe the video game industry is like the movie industry in the 80's or football stadiums. They know people will do anything to work there just to work there so they take advantage of you for it.

But seriously if anyone in the video game industry needs to unionize it's all the game developers and I wouldn't be mad if any game was delayed because of it.

edit: Not to mention you can make more money working at a in-n-out burger in Cali.
 
R

RMI

Banned
I get 15 days of paid vacation and it still doesn't seem like enough. These positions are ridiculous.
 
socksfelloff

socksfelloff

Member
That's fucking terrible. Here in Toronto Canada (similar cost of living) the entry level for most trades is over 20/hour with no experience.

I'm an elevator mechanic and fresh out of high school, on day 1 of your apprenticeship you're making $27/hr with ~6 weeks off paid with 3 of those being mandatory. All that's expected of you is to learn, carry a mechanics tools and fetch coffee.

WITH NO EXPERIENCE OR DEGREE/LICENCE
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
socksfelloff said:
That's fucking terrible. Here in Toronto Canada (similar cost of living) the entry level for most trades is over 20/hour with no experience.

I'm an elevator mechanic and fresh out of high school you're making $27/hr with ~6 weeks off paid with 3 of those being mandatory. All that's expected of you is to learn, carry a mechanics tools and fetch coffee.

WITH NO EXPERIENCE OR DEGREE/LICENCE
Click to expand...
o_o that's crazy good. But when people post stuff like this, are you the exception or the norm? Cause a lot of people here seem to compare " I had an in and got a freaking awesome position" to "I couldn't find anything so I had to take something to make a living". And you can only job hop so much before it kills your chances to do it again so with no connections finding jobs like that is usually very, very difficult, otherwise unemployment rates would not be anywhere near what they are in the Us
 
Q

Quonny

Member
SonicXtreme said:
o_o that's crazy good. But when people post stuff like this, are you the exception or the norm? Cause a lot of people here seem to compare " I had an in and got a freaking awesome position" to "I couldn't find anything so I had to take something to make a living". And you can only job hop so much before it kills your chances to do it again so with no connections finding jobs like that is usually very, very difficult, otherwise unemployment rates would not be anywhere near what they are in the Us
Click to expand...

That person is most definitely not the norm.

However, it is not uncommon to find a factory job for ~15/hour with 2+ weeks off a year.
 
artsi

artsi

Member
socksfelloff said:
That's fucking terrible. Here in Toronto Canada (similar cost of living) the entry level for most trades is over 20/hour with no experience.

I'm an elevator mechanic and fresh out of high school, on day 1 of your apprenticeship you're making $27/hr with ~6 weeks off paid with 3 of those being mandatory. All that's expected of you is to learn, carry a mechanics tools and fetch coffee.

WITH NO EXPERIENCE OR DEGREE/LICENCE
Click to expand...

I feel many of these jobs are undervalued because you get to sit on a computer and make games. Despite it requiring you to know a fuck ton of stuff with years of experience.

I'm in IT / ICT and it pays well, but it's a "boring" computer job for old farts compared to something like game development...
 
E

EvilMario

Will QA for food.
For a Community position, or QA, companies will try to skimp out and pay shit wages like this. I don't know what the norm in the US is anymore for positions like that, but you can almost assuredly find better. Stay away from larger studios would be a good philosophy to begin with and go from there.
 
F

faridmon

Member
I would have said, While low, as an entry level its actually OK.

That is until I saw the entry requirements.

Holy shit.
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
One of my earliest QA jobs 15 years ago when I started out paid out at California min wage. So barely over $8/hr.

I didn't start making a "decent" wage (meaning greater than $20/hr) until I got an assistant producer spot 5 years later. The low wages are a reason a lot of people actually want to do overtime hours.

Average pay across the board is pretty low in the gaming and entertainment industry compared to the rest of the tech industry at large (especially in California) until you get to the senior positions, and even then it can still be non-competitive in terms of pay. I work in network security now and my salary's at least 25-35% higher than what I'd probably get at the equivalent position in gaming, for far less hours on average.
 
S

shandy706

Member
Isn't $12 an hour in California like $7 an hour in most of the rest of the US?

Minus the far north-east/west maybe?

Here (southeast) gas is $1.75-$1.90 gallon. California $2.35-$3.00 gallon.

I remember seeing a study last year where you could make less than $15 an hour and afford a 2-Bedroom apartment here. In California you needed to make over $26 an hour to afford the same apartment.

$12 hr in Cali is nothing.

lordfuzzybutt said:
Yep, inhumane. Either you work sick, or you get fired.

What.
Click to expand...

Not arguing for it at all.

However, how often are people actually sick enough to not work?

Looking at my calender (google). I've been out sick 3 times in the last 4 years (I've worked here 12 years). I get 14 paid sick-leave days a year...so I used 3 out of 56 days in 3 years.

I need to get "sick" more often.
 
B

BigDug13

Member
Minimum wage in California is going to be $12 in January 2019 and will go up $1 each year from there, so at least you would eventually be looking at some pay raises.


Hahaha oh man. The fact that the wages in a job like this is being quickly approached by the minimum wage floor is amazing.
 
socksfelloff

socksfelloff

Member
SonicXtreme said:
o_o that's crazy good. But when people post stuff like this, are you the exception or the norm? Cause a lot of people here seem to compare " I had an in and got a freaking awesome position" to "I couldn't find anything so I had to take something to make a living". And you can only job hop so much before it kills your chances to do it again so with no connections finding jobs like that is usually very, very difficult, otherwise unemployment rates would not be anywhere near what they are in the Us
Click to expand...

It is incredibly hard to get into elevators here in Toronto I'll give you that. It's basically a closed industry unless you were born into it. The numbers I listed are for unionized elevator companies but the non union side matches the pay regardless.

Every trade has a union you can sign up for and wait for a phone call. Most trades here are 90k+/year for a 36hr work week (once you complete your apprenticeship and get your licence) with great benefits and working conditions.

I have my 80hour/week crunch weeks but anything after 40 hours is double time son and it's always optional.



I guess I'm just using this as another Avenue to promote the trades.
 
K

kevm3

Member
fernoca said:
It varies by person. So one that might get a job that pays $2k a month won't necessarily pay $2k in rent every month.

Either by living with roomates, or family, friends or a smaller place, or something else.

Then again, I know people in the US that work literally to pay rent and have a part time job for food and misc. things.



Of course.
But as a starting job is not as bad. Definetely not for a family, but for a young person trying to make contacts and possibly go to events to meet people around gaming. It also varies by the individual.
Click to expand...


The only way this isn't bad is if you consider being homeless as ok. Considering apartments in la start around 2000 and after taxes, at $12 an hour, you'll be getting somewhere around 1500, you also have to consider transportation costs, paying off student loans, possible water and electricity costs, groceries, etc.
 
J

JamesAR15

Member
Crazy to me that they are paying that little, especially in Cali and with those requirements. You could work at McDonalds for that wage but hey I guess you wouldn't get those "Scrumptious Snacks!"
 
S

shandy706

Member
socksfelloff said:
It is incredibly hard to get into elevators here in Toronto I'll give you that. It's basically a closed industry unless you were born into it. The numbers I listed are for unionized elevator companies but the non union side matches the pay regardless.

Every trade has a union you can sign up for and wait for a phone call. Most trades here are 90k+/year for a 36hr work week (once you complete your apprenticeship and get your licence) with great benefits and working conditions.

I have my 80hour/week crunch weeks but anything after 40 hours is double time son and it's always optional.
Click to expand...

"Unions" don't exist in the southeast...haha. That's like a half joke, half truth there.
 
W

w0s

Member
I mean how much should a community manager make? I'm not defending 12 dollars an hour but just out of college and getting your foot in the door. Plus 4 weeks off total from day one. Not to mention at least for the first job. Hell Not paying for insurance alone is a nice perk. Plus you are getting your gym paid for also.

Perks:

100% employer-paid health insurance
401(k) with employer match
10 vacation days, 5 personal days & 5 sick days per year
Monthly catering
Gym access
Spacious and sunny deck
Lots of scrumptious snacks!
 
G

God Dayumm

Banned
w0s said:
I mean how much should a community manager make? I'm not defending 12 dollars an hour but just out of college and getting your foot in the door. Plus 4 weeks off total from day one. Not to mention at least for the first job. Hell Not paying for insurance alone is a nice perk. Plus you are getting your gym paid for also.

Perks:

100% employer-paid health insurance
401(k) with employer match
10 vacation days, 5 personal days & 5 sick days per year
Monthly catering
Gym access
Spacious and sunny deck
Lots of scrumptious snacks!
Click to expand...

Yeah, seems fair for posting on Facebook all day and shilling on Japanese forums. I'm more interested to see if the developers are underpaid compared to other industries
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
BA degree and bilingual ---> 12 an hour LOL.

I love the 'Passion for games!' bit. You gotta be super ultra mega passionate to take that.

I don't think $12 is absolutely insulting I just think the qualifications for a $12 posting are ridiculous. If you're going to ask for those kinds of credentials then at least pony up $15....at least.
 
Z

Z3M0G

Member
Wtf... in my Canadian province minimum wage is $10 or $10.50 /hour... and that's CDN. 12 USD would be less than that, no?

I can't imagine doing software development for minimum wage...
 
PapaEmeritus

PapaEmeritus

Member
Sounds about right for any non-educated entry level position. If you want more go work at McDonald's and be a french fry technician. That's still ridiculous though 12$- more than likely getting in 17-21 yr olds still living at home
 
S

shandy706

Member
Z3M0G said:
Wtf... in my Canadian province minimum wage is $10 or $10.50 /hour... and that's CDN. 12 USD would be less than that, no?

I can't imagine doing software development for minimum wage...
Click to expand...

$12hr US is $15.57 CDN.

USD is worth more than the CDN $.

In California $12 might as well be minimum wage though.
 
S

Spiritwalker

Member
So glad I don't live in the US. And to think that I actually wanted to move there once, haha. Guess I didn't realize how good we have it over here.
 
X

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Xanxus said:
So glad I don't live in the US. And to think that I actually wanted to move there once, haha. Guess I didn't realize how good we have it over here.
Click to expand...

I don't think gaming necessarily pays well anywhere in the world, but the usual US benefit structure isn't that great I agree.

Anyone have the last Gamasutra salary survey links handy? On my way to work so can't search easily.
 
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