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[TheGodfather07]

If the numbers in this thread are to be believed in a 5 year period for PS4 it had sold 88 million, in the same 5 year period the PS5 has sold about 60 million, I wouldn't largely say keeping pace due to being 30 million behind and instead being a lower status quo possibly due to a large portion of the new games for the system having been fairly underwhelming this generation.

The hell did you get 88m from?

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment here.

If Microsoft sheds hardware, they largely shed GamePass. That loss of revenue will result in massive studio closures and layoffs.

When Sega went 3rd party their software production actually declined significantly.

If you look at ABK before the merger, they were starting to focus more and more on CoD than their other titles. I envision a post-Xbox Microsoft to focus pretty much on a few key franchises like CoD, Halo, Forza Horizon, and maybe Gears... with a lot of these unprofitable studios being closed down. Microsoft is only keeping them around right now for additional content for GamePass. How much do you think Tango Gameworks cost Microsoft to operate? It couldn't have been that much. They closed it down because they didn't see the value in trying to manage a small Japanese studio, especially post Mikami exit.

Microsoft proper has 4 studios in Washington. They lucked into Halo because Bungie was in Washington... They have 4 studios in California, 3 in the UK, and 2 in Canada. They don't have to actively manage Bethesda, but Arkane and even MachineGames... would not be surprised if either of them are folded by the end of the generation. Maybe MachineGames gets turned into a CoD support studio.

Spot on

Sega released a huge amount of games on Dreamcast, the majority of the best games were first party.

Those great PS2, GameCube and Xbox games started life as Dreamcast games. Once those games were out studios closed and releases slowed down.

If (or when) Microsoft go third party only, expect to only see releases to these franchises…

Call of Duty
World of Warcraft
Elder Scrolls
Fallout
Halo
Gears of War
Forza
Fable
Flight Simulator

Expect their smaller franchises to be abandoned with more studio closures.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If the numbers in this thread are to be believed in a 5 year period for PS4 it had sold 88 million, in the same 5 year period the PS5 has sold about 60 million, I wouldn't largely say keeping pace due to being 30 million behind and instead being a lower status quo possibly due to a large portion of the new games for the system having been fairly underwhelming this generation.

You're an entirely unserious person...

Why, in a world where Microsoft is already putting their games on PlayStation, are people so fixated on console sales still?

If you want to console war, move on to Sony vs. Nintendo, or will that hurt your ego to see Sony get trounced?

We've been discussing console sales for decades, but somehow you think that's going to stop now? As for Nintendo and Sony, it's apples and oranges, especially if Microsoft folds. The increased revenue and operating income Sony will get from games like Madden, NBA 2K, e.t.c. not to mention Microsoft sales on PS, will comfortably put Sony ahead of Nintendo, it's already there wit revenue, but will get their with OI as well. Throw in a Sony handheld too? Yeah, not sure Sony is going to get "trounced".

 

[Nikodemos]

If Microsoft sheds hardware, they largely shed GamePass. That loss of revenue will result in massive studio closures and layoffs.

Hence why they're entertaining the idea of a handheld, likely as a Gamepass device. They're acutely aware allowing GP on PS/SW2 is going to be a super tough sell to Sony and Nintendo.

When Sega went 3rd party their software production actually declined significantly.

Sega were bankrupt. It took them, I think, 5 years until they managed to shape themselves into a semblance of profitability. The game division is quite visibly on a tight leash after the multibillion A-B stunt, but it's not a comparable situation.

Microsoft is only keeping them around right now for additional content for GamePass. How much do you think Tango Gameworks cost Microsoft to operate? It couldn't have been that much. They closed it down because they didn't see the value in trying to manage a small Japanese studio, especially post Mikami exit.

Microsoft proper has 4 studios in Washington. They lucked into Halo because Bungie was in Washington... They have 4 studios in California, 3 in the UK, and 2 in Canada. They don't have to actively manage Bethesda, but Arkane and even MachineGames... would not be surprised if either of them are folded by the end of the generation. Maybe MachineGames gets turned into a CoD support studio.

Hence why I noted that I'm somewhat sceptical of Microsoft's competence at effectively and efficiently juggling all their IPs and studios. Their historical record is decidedly mediocre. They definitely need more long-term planning, rather than Hewlett-Packard-circa-2012-tier cost cutting.

 

[lordrand11]

The hell did you get 88m from?

Google, similar five year lifetime sales for the PS4. https://www.vgchartz.com/article/43...-xbox-one-global-lifetime-salesnovember-2018/

You're an entirely unserious person...

I'm looking at the data for sales.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

If the numbers in this thread are to be believed in a 5 year period for PS4 it had sold 88 million, in the same 5 year period the PS5 has sold about 60 million, I wouldn't largely say keeping pace due to being 30 million behind and instead being a lower status quo possibly due to a large portion of the new games for the system having been fairly underwhelming this generation.

That's not correct.

November 2024 was the 4th year of PS5 and in that timeframe, PS4 sold ~70.6M.

PlayStation 4

The PlayStation 4 is a video game console made by Sony that competes in the eighth generation of video game consoles with the Xbox One and the Wii U. It held the record for fastest selling home console at launch, only beaten by its successor, the PlayStation 5 in late 2020. It is currently the...

vgsales.fandom.com

 

[lordrand11]

That's not correct.

November 2024 was the 4th year of PS5 and in that timeframe, PS4 sold ~70.6M.

PlayStation 4

The PlayStation 4 is a video game console made by Sony that competes in the eighth generation of video game consoles with the Xbox One and the Wii U. It held the record for fastest selling home console at launch, only beaten by its successor, the PlayStation 5 in late 2020. It is currently the...

vgsales.fandom.com

VGCharts and Google are saying you're incorrect: https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation_4#:~:text=December 31, 2018: 91.6 million sold

 

[RetroGamingUK]

We've been discussing console sales for decades, but somehow you think that's going to stop now? As for Nintendo and Sony, it's apples and oranges, especially if Microsoft folds. The increased revenue and operating income Sony will get from games like Madden, NBA 2K, e.t.c. not to mention Microsoft sales on PS, will comfortably put Sony ahead of Nintendo, it's already there wit revenue, but will get their with OI as well. Throw in a Sony handheld too? Yeah, not sure Sony is going to get "trounced".

If porting from PS5/PC is easier on Switch 2 then we could see many more third party games on Switch 2.

PS5, Switch 2 and PC will all see increases in user base and game sales once Xbox fully drops out.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

VGCharts and Google are saying you're incorrect: https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation_4#:~:text=December 31, 2018: 91.6 million sold

Again, you're unserious.

How are you comparing December 2018 to January of 2025? Jesus Christ...

 

[Killjoy-NL]

VGCharts and Google are saying you're incorrect: https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation_4#:~:text=December 31, 2018: 91.6 million sold

Dude, PS5 released november 12, 2020.

So how do you get to 5 years in november 2024?

 

[Larivel]

The truly impressive part isn't that they're (mostly) keeping pace with PS4 despite being more expensive (both Standard and Pro).

The actually impressive part is that they're (mostly) keeping pace with PS4, despite being more expensive and having suffered severe inventory shortages for over a year after launch.

Also, PS4 Pro launched three years into the generation, not four like PS5 Pro.

Another thing is that the PS4 wasn’t backward compatible, so there weren’t a lot of cross-gen titles in the first few years like with the PS5. That’s why, for a lot of people, upgrading from the PS3 was a no brainer.

Having these things in mind, it is remarkable how close PS5 and PS4 are in sales launch aligned.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

If porting from PS5/PC is easier on Switch 2 then we could see many more third party games on Switch 2.

PS5, Switch 2 and PC will all see increases in user base and game sales once Xbox fully drops out.

I'm not sure a lot of people are going from XSX or even X1 to Switch 2.

Most of the people who want Nintendo games are already going to have a Switch and there is still going to be a large gap between the quality of these titles on PS5 and Switch 2.

Hogwarts Legacy is the example I use the most. I kind of enjoyed the game on PS5 Pro, I would have enjoyed it much less on PS5, significantly less on PS4, and I couldn't have played it on Switch. Even if I owned a switch, I would not have played Hogwarts Legacy on it.

It'll be interesting to see what people's device of choice will be if the Switch 2 is significantly more expensive and in range of the PS5 Digital.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

VGCharts and Google are saying you're incorrect: https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/PlayStation_4#:~:text=December 31, 2018: 91.6 million sold

Why are you comparing 5 years of PS4 to 4 years of PS5?

 

[lordrand11]

Why are you comparing 5 years of PS4 to 4 years of PS5?

Dude, Idk where my brain is at this morning! My mind went 2020-2025 =5 years not the 4.25 years it's been since release LMAO

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Dude, Idk where my brain is at this morning! My mind went 2020-2025 =5 years not the 4.25 years it's been since release LMAO

LOL, it's February 7th... we're barely not even 2 months into the year, not even close to a quarter of the year, let alone the end of the year...

This wasn't a brain fart...

 

[SHA]

A lot of them still think Playstation is the default platform and play mostly 3rd party titles, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

 

[T-0800]

Yes they sold less then 3M last year in US and less then 5M WW.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

A lot of them still think Playstation is the default platform and play mostly 3rd party titles, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

Or reality is setting in that most people just don't care about Xbox and it's library.

That's why going 3rd party might not be the magical solution to Xbox' problem, like many seem to think.
It's just the only option they have left to remain relevant in any way.

There's a reason Tango got shut down, despite HFR being released on PS5 and why SoT, which is supposedly one of Xbox' best and most popular games, needed 4 months to get 1M sales on PS5.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

There's a reason Tango got shut down, despite HFR being released on PS5 and why SoT, which is supposedly one of Xbox' best and most popular games, needed 4 months to get 1M sales on PS5.

Hi-Fi Rush needed an audience that appreciates Japanese games.

It was never going to find that on Xbox.

 

[SHA]

Or reality is setting in that most people just don't care about Xbox and it's library.

That's why going 3rd party might not be the magical solution to Xbox' problem, like many seem to think.
It's just the only option they have left to remain relevant in any way.

There's a reason Tango got shut down, despite HFR being released on PS5 and why SoT, which is supposedly one of Xbox' best and most popular games, needed 4 months to get 1M sales on PS5.

I used to be one of them, it's not a secret.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Or reality is setting in that most people just don't care about Xbox and it's library.

That's why going 3rd party might not be the magical solution to Xbox' problem, like many seem to think.
It's just the only option they have left to remain relevant in any way.

There's a reason Tango got shut down, despite HFR being released on PS5 and why SoT, which is supposedly one of Xbox' best and most popular games, needed 4 months to get 1M sales on PS5.

I think Microsoft will have tremendous success with Halo MCC, Forza Horizon 5, and Gears Trilogy, but I think it'll be downhill from there. That's kind of evidenced by multiple polls we've seen here as well.

The only games above 150 votes were Halo MCC and Gears Trilogy with Forza and Gears E-Day coming just shy.

The only others even above 100 were Perfect Dark at 101, and Fable at 111.

Halo Infinite was laughably low as was Starfield.

You get the whole back catalog on PS5, but now you've done irreparable harm to your brand and have really no upside following that.

 

[yurinka]

As I remember doesn't VGChartz under estimates PlayStation numbers and over estimates Xbox number?

Only fixing them when official numbers come out?

VGChartz worldwide hardware sales numbers are totally fake for all 3 consoles. They are just fan guesses numbers, like the estimates that anyone can drop here.

Historically their fanboy guesstimates are too low for Sony and too high for Nintendo and Microsoft. They often don't even correct their always wrong estimates after the real numbers are out.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

VGChartz worldwide hardware sales numbers are totally fake for all 3 consoles.

Historically their fanboy guesstimates are too low for Sony and too high for Nintendo and Microsoft. They often don't even correct their always wrong estimates after the real numbers are out.

That would make things worse for Xbox.

 

[Sooner]

Together, Elon Musk and I have a net worth of 406.7 billion dollars.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I think Microsoft will have tremendous success with Halo MCC, Forza Horizon 5, and Gears Trilogy, but I think it'll be downhill from there. That's kind of evidenced by multiple polls we've seen here as well.

The only games above 150 votes were Halo MCC and Gears Trilogy with Forza and Gears E-Day coming just shy.

The only others even above 100 were Perfect Dark at 101, and Fable at 111.

Halo Infinite was laughably low as was Starfield.

You get the whole back catalog on PS5, but now you've done irreparable harm to your brand and have really no upside following that.

I also feel MS will find very good success moving forward with PS launches especially if games like the next Forza launches day one

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

It insane how utterly fucked up Microsoft made of the Xbox one reveal back in the last generation and what it's done to the brand, I like millions of other gamers who had xbox360's just watched the reveal and went "Huh!? Wtf" and then Sony came out with not only a more powerful AND cheaper console but made it all about the games... And with the PS4 generation being all about digital libraries ain't nobody was switching back no matter how good the next hardware was..

What's insane is how folks like you seem to insist on wanting to go back and put today's shitty Xbox performance on Mattrick and the Xbox One. It's borderline delusional.

Part of the reason Xbox is in the state it's in today is precisely encapsulated in this post, i.e. Xbox gamers refusing to hold Spencer accountable for his utter horseshit decisions, and instead continuing to point the finger back a Mattrick and the Xbox One that was like almost a decade ago.

Xbox has consistently fucked up since the Xbox One days. From overly relying on Halo, Gears and Forza, to making an utter shit show of their first party games publishing, to launching console with no meaningful first party games, to endless promises of "wait for next year", to consolidating their entire platform business behind a subscription service that would be deleterious to the industry if it did succeed the way they wanted it to, to trying to buy up all the major third party publishers to try to foreclose on Sony's playstation business because they knew they couldn't complete purely in investing in quality FP games (something they never even properly tried).

Xbox's regression into irrelevance today, has very little to do with the Xbox One and Mattrick, and instead has everything to do with Spencer and Booty's absurdly bad leadership of both the Xbox hardware and FP software businesses.

It's mind-blowing that after this disaster with an investment of more than 80 billion, the Xbox leadership is still holding their positions.

This.

Spencer and his entire Xbox exec team just keep failing upwards. Really speaks to how fucked the corporate culture in MS is, when a group can take a successful competitive business and literally drive it into the ground and not only maintain hold of their multi-million-dollar salaries but continue to be promoted.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I also feel MS will find very good success moving forward with PS launches especially if games like the next Forza launches day one

The next Forza Horizon? Maybe... There are a lot of racing games on PS5. It's harder to compete than it looks.

A lot of people have already purchased The Crew Motorfest. Not entirely sure that all of these people buy Forza Horizon 5 AND Forza Horizon 6.

 

[ZiggyPop1991]

I’m certainly no Xbox advocate, but I am genuinely surprised by how much it has fallen behind PS this gen. I honestly thought it would be much closer, especially considering how cheap the Series S is. I have to wonder if those price tier customers have just bought a Switch instead.

Yes. At that price point the switch seems better. A cheaper price is only good if you have the games to back it up. They should've hankered down on the series s and gamepass day 1. I think the delay in COD threw them off a bit.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It's mind-blowing that after this disaster with an investment of more than 80 billion, the Xbox leadership is still holding their positions.

I don’t get it either and their current plan of succession does not inspire me they can turn things around

They need fresh faces with new ideas or just close up shop

 

[Mibu no ookami]

What's insane is how folks like you seem to insist on wanting to go back and put today's shitty Xbox performance on Mattrick and the Xbox One. It's borderline delusional.

Part of the reason Xbox is in the state it's in today is precisely encapsulated in this post, i.e. Xbox gamers refusing to hold Spencer accountable for his utter horseshit decisions, and instead continuing to point the finger back a Mattrick and the Xbox One that was like almost a decade ago.

Xbox has consistently fucked up since the Xbox One days. From overly relying on Halo, Gears and Forza, to making an utter shit show of their first party games publishing, to launching console with no meaningful first party games, to endless promises of "wait for next year", to consolidating their entire platform business behind a subscription service that would be deleterious to the industry if it did succeed the way they wanted it to, to trying to buy up all the major third party publishers to try to foreclose on Sony's playstation business because they knew they couldn't complete purely in investing in quality FP games (something they never even properly tried).

Xbox's regression into irrelevance today, has very little to do with the Xbox One and Mattrick, and instead has everything to do with Spencer and Booty's absurdly bad leadership of both the Xbox hardware and FP software businesses.



This.

Spencer and his entire Xbox exec team just keep failing upwards. Really speaks to how fucked the corporate culture in MS is, when a group can take a successful competitive business and literally drive it into the ground and not only maintain hold of their multi-million-dollar salaries but continue to be promoted.

Your assessment is on point, but you have to give Phil SOMEWHAT of a break.

Xbox was getting shut down and the only think that kept them in the race was Phil promising Nadella he could turn Xbox into the Netflix of gaming.

It's like running away from someone on rooftop who is chasing you with a gun and saying the fall from the jump killed you... yeah sure technically that's right, but you wouldn't have jumped at all if you hadn't been worried about the guy with the gun.

Xbox was already dead, Phil Spencer just got a second lease on life for it. He took a hail mary and he threw an interception. That's kind of the odds you get with a hail mary.

GamePass is closer to Movie Pass than it is Netflix. Netflix ramped up their spending in conjunction with their audience to become an indispensable brand. MoviePass tried to subsidize their way into a market position by creating an audience large enough that they could gain leverage over theaters. Microsoft needed to create leverage over publishers where games couldn't exist without being on GamePass, but games were still selling on PS5, Switch and PC. Microsoft never had the leverage to make GamePass successful. Now they're overlevereged themselves.

If Microsoft wasn't bankrolling xbox, they'd have gone under almost a decade ago.

 

[LordCBH]

It's mind-blowing that after this disaster with an investment of more than 80 billion, the Xbox leadership is still holding their positions.

Blows my mind. Most of these high profile people (Phil, Matt, Aaron) have been there for what, most of the Xbox brand life? Or the majority of it at least. Xbox first party output has been dogshit since like 2010, yet ghouls like Matt and Phil kept failing upwards.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Do we know the attach rate for XBOX and Gamepass? 33 Million x Gamepass Monthly subscribers seems like its would be pulling in decent revenue for the gaming division.

 

[LordCBH]

Do we know the attach rate for XBOX and Gamepass? 33 Million x Gamepass Monthly subscribers seems like its would be pulling in decent revenue for the gaming division.

Also would like to know how many are true Gamepass subs versus rebranded Live Gold subs.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It is absolutely crazy how far ms slipped to ps this gen.

The series x is a great console so there is literally no excuse but how ms handled it's launch. It's period after launch and it's poor release schedule.

Its totally wild. I wouldn't say the playstation has been that much better to warrant the split but it just goes to show what ms needed to do to deliver a solid gen and they failed at that.

 

[Scrawnton]

You're an entirely unserious person...

You're an entirely unserious person...




We've been discussing console sales for decades, but somehow you think that's going to stop now? As for Nintendo and Sony, it's apples and oranges, especially if Microsoft folds. The increased revenue and operating income Sony will get from games like Madden, NBA 2K, e.t.c. not to mention Microsoft sales on PS, will comfortably put Sony ahead of Nintendo, it's already there wit revenue, but will get their with OI as well. Throw in a Sony handheld too? Yeah, not sure Sony is going to get "trounced".

do you really think that when Xbox hardware goes away that AAA developers are just going to be fine with only releasing games on PlayStation hardware and be at their mercy? I doubt that. AAA companies aren't going to build their entire business model around PlayStation. If Xbox collapses they will diversify and seek out revenue on PC and Nintendo systems. This head cannon people had where Sony "wins" a console war and monopolizes and controls all games is a pipe dream. It's never going to happen.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

It is absolutely crazy how far ms slipped to ps this gen.

The series x is a great console so there is literally no excuse but how ms handled it's launch. It's period after launch and it's poor release schedule.

Its totally wild. I wouldn't say the playstation has been that much better to warrant the split but it just goes to show what ms needed to do to deliver a solid gen and they failed at that.

It's only crazy if you didn't want to listen to people saying years ago that this was going to happen.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

do you really think that when Xbox hardware goes away that AAA developers are just going to be fine with only releasing games on PlayStation hardware and be at their mercy? I doubt that. AAA companies aren't going to build their entire business model around PlayStation. If Xbox collapses they will diversify and seek out revenue on PC and Nintendo systems. This head cannon people had where Sony "wins" a console war and monopolizes and controls all games is a pipe dream. It's never going to happen.

You're in your own head. Where did I ever say that?

 

[BlackTron]

Master of spin Phil can certainly turn this into a win without revealing any actual numbers. They did beat Wii U sales by double.

 

[Scrawnton]

You're in your own head. Where did I ever say that?

You're insinuating that if Xbox goes away all of the casual sports gamers and the like will flock to Sony and increase their profits / success to be higher than Nintendo. From 360 to Xbox One, the hardware dropped about 50% in sales. From PS3 to PS4 Sony hardware only grew about 10% in console sales and that's with double dippers getting a Pro.

What makes you so sure those Xbox casual gamers will flock straight to Sony if they haven't already? I don't see Sony massively benefiting from the collapse of Xbox. We are also ignoring the clear growth in the PC market and the massive growth Nintendo is going through.

Sony is in a good spot but their future success is far from guaranteed, especially considering what's going on with their own software pipeline and game sales compared to Nintendo.

 

[onQ123]

Google, similar five year lifetime sales for the PS4. https://www.vgchartz.com/article/43...-xbox-one-global-lifetime-salesnovember-2018/


I'm looking at the data for sales.

Nov 2020 to Nov 2024 is 4 years

 

[RJMacready73]

What's insane is how folks like you seem to insist on wanting to go back and put today's shitty Xbox performance on Mattrick and the Xbox One. It's borderline delusional.

Part of the reason Xbox is in the state it's in today is precisely encapsulated in this post, i.e. Xbox gamers refusing to hold Spencer accountable for his utter horseshit decisions, and instead continuing to point the finger back a Mattrick and the Xbox One that was like almost a decade ago.

Xbox has consistently fucked up since the Xbox One days. From overly relying on Halo, Gears and Forza, to making an utter shit show of their first party games publishing, to launching console with no meaningful first party games, to endless promises of "wait for next year", to consolidating their entire platform business behind a subscription service that would be deleterious to the industry if it did succeed the way they wanted it to, to trying to buy up all the major third party publishers to try to foreclose on Sony's playstation business because they knew they couldn't complete purely in investing in quality FP games (something they never even properly tried).

Xbox's regression into irrelevance today, has very little to do with the Xbox One and Mattrick, and instead has everything to do with Spencer and Booty's absurdly bad leadership of both the Xbox hardware and FP software businesses.



This.

Spencer and his entire Xbox exec team just keep failing upwards. Really speaks to how fucked the corporate culture in MS is, when a group can take a successful competitive business and literally drive it into the ground and not only maintain hold of their multi-million-dollar salaries but continue to be promoted.

I respectfully disagree chap, I watched the whole thing unfold and based on my own small sample of anecdotal evidence.. i.e. me and 4 gamer mates whom all had xbox360s and where looking forward to the new Xbox, then the reveal happened, then the mixed messaging, then the massive performance differential (hilariously downplayed by Xbox) and imo that was when the nail was driven into the coffin, in the years that followed subsequent blows just kept hammering it in but it can all be traced back to losing the previous generation hard...

We all bought went out and bought PlayStations for the first time, built up our digital libraries and are now firmly rooted in the Sony ecosystem, don't underestimate how much of a massive fuck up it was

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You're insinuating that if Xbox goes away all of the casual sports gamers and the like will flock to Sony and increase their profits / success to be higher than Nintendo. From 360 to Xbox One, the hardware dropped about 50% in sales. From PS3 to PS4 Sony hardware only grew about 10% in console sales and that's with double dippers getting a Pro.

What makes you so sure those Xbox casual gamers will flock straight to Sony if they haven't already? I don't see Sony massively benefiting from the collapse of Xbox. We are also ignoring the clear growth in the PC market and the massive growth Nintendo is going through.

Sony is in a good spot but their future success is far from guaranteed, especially considering what's going on with their own software pipeline and game sales compared to Nintendo.

You struggle with making assumptions, straw man arguments, and bad math.

Let's start with 360 it sold 84 million and the PS3 sold 87.4 million units. How many 360s were replacement units? 5-10 million units, 15 million? Let's be generous and assume none. That combined TAM is 171.4 million units.

The Xbox One sold 58 million units and the PS4 sold 117 million units. That's 175 million units, which is growth of about 3.6 million units again, assuming that many of the 360s sales were not duplicate sales. How did Sony go from 87.4 million to 117 million? Obviously they took back market share from the Xbox 360. Where did you get your 10 percent from? It grew 33.6 percent. You think people double dipped, but you don't think these people traded their PS4s in and those were sold as used units?

Those 58 million consumers who bought the Xbox One are going to go somewhere. Whether it be PC, Switch, or PlayStation, but I think it's safe to assume that at least a third are going to go to PlayStation if not more. I think it's safe to assume more people have a Switch and an Xbox than have an Xbox and a PlayStation. If that's the case you're not going to see as much of an uptick on Switch since they already have one. Same with PC.

I never said everyone would jump to PlayStation, but I don't think it's egregious to suggest most or a plurality will.

You've even convinced yourself that Sony's software isn't selling when Helldivers 2 became their fastest-selling game, and before that Spider-Man 2, and before that God of War Ragnarok... The delusion people are living in is kind of wild.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Yes they sold less then 3M last year in US and less then 5M WW.

 

[MoreJRPG]

If porting from PS5/PC is easier on Switch 2 then we could see many more third party games on Switch 2.

PS5, Switch 2 and PC will all see increases in user base and game sales once Xbox fully drops out.

PS5 and Switch 2 won't even be in production by the time Xbox drops out.....

 

[Scrawnton]

You've even convinced yourself that Sony's software isn't selling when Helldivers 2 became their fastest-selling game, and before that Spider-Man 2, and before that God of War Ragnarok... The delusion people are living in is kind of wild.

Reading comprehension helps. I said "especially considering what's going on with their [Sony's] own software pipeline and game sales compared to Nintendo."

I don't need to pull up the numbers to prove my point on this one, but feel free to go ahead and compare Sony's best selling games ever to how Nintendo's first party games have sold on Switch.

Spoiler

Sony's fastest selling big budget tentpole games (based on last reported numbers) were outsold by Luigi's Mansion 3 and a freaking Wii U port (Mario 3D World)

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Its totally wild. I wouldn't say the playstation has been that much better to warrant the split but it just goes to show what ms needed to do to deliver a solid gen and they failed at that.

And that's the old DenchDeckard coming to the surface, telling us you're always still in there.

Sony did do much better to warrant the split.

They got Spider-Man Miles Morales and Demon's Souls remake out at launch.

They've delivered God of War Ragnarok, Spider-Man 2, Helldivers 2, Astro Bot, Horizon Forbidden West, Gran Turismo 7, and several remakes/remasters and smaller games like Rift Apart and Returnal.

Compared to Halo Infinite, Forza Motosport (and Horizon), Hellblade 2, and Starfield...

Each one of Sony's major games is larger than any game Microsoft has put out this generation. It's not even close, and that doesn't begin to touch on the differences in 3rd party support with games like Black Myth Wukong and initially Baldur's Gate 3 and Genshin Impact or exclusives like FF16, FF7 Rebirth...

Year in and year out Sony has had titles to push the PS5, Microsoft hasn't had anything to push the Xbox since launch.

People want to rag on Sony this generation, but it's laughable to compare the two companies and their production and Sony's 1st party production in the last 4-5 years still outpaces any other company in gaming.

 

[mayham2199]

Reading comprehension helps. I said "especially considering what's going on with their [Sony's] own software pipeline and game sales compared to Nintendo."

Yet Sony is still bigger and pulls in more revenue than Nintendo. Their software sales aren't as good but the 30% they get from software sales is through the roof. You know the whole point of running a platform is for the 30%. Playstation is a platform holder first and a publisher second. They rely on that platform dominance to run the company.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Reading comprehension helps. I said "especially considering what's going on with their [Sony's] own software pipeline and game sales compared to Nintendo."

I don't need to pull up the numbers to prove my point on this one, but feel free to go ahead and compare Sony's best selling games ever to how Nintendo's first party games have sold on Switch.

Sony's games don't need to outsell Nintendo's games... and their pipeline is much stronger.

What are all the big games Nintendo has dropped in the last 4 years? Switch games sell because there are go to games to buy, but many of these came out in the first few years of the Switches life.

Breath of the Wild came out 7 years ago. Mario kart 8 originally came out 10 years ago before being ported to the Switch.

In the last 4 years they have Animal Crossing, which I don't think would have been half as successful without the pandemic, Pokemon Scarlet/Violet/Diamond/Pearl/Arceus, Tears of the Kingdom, and Super Mario Wonder...

 

[Scrawnton]

Sony's games don't need to outsell Nintendo's games... and their pipeline is much stronger.

What are all the big games Nintendo has dropped in the last 4 years? Switch games sell because there are go to games to buy, but many of these came out in the first few years of the Switches life.

Breath of the Wild came out 7 years ago. Mario kart 8 originally came out 10 years ago before being ported to the Switch.

In the last 4 years they have Animal Crossing, which I don't think would have been half as successful without the pandemic, Pokemon Scarlet/Violet/Diamond/Pearl/Arceus, Tears of the Kingdom, and Super Mario Wonder...

If I was smart enough to insert a goal post moving gif, this is where I'd place it.

 

[kaizenkko]

Yes, from January to December 2024, they sold an estimate of just 2.7m units in the US.

The US represents more than 50% of all Xbox series consoles sold WW.


Also, if all games stated for this year release on time, it could be really big year for the PS5 with:

- GTA VI
- Ghost of Yotei
- Mafia the Old Country
- Monster Hunter Wilds
- Death Stranding 2

And many many more current gen only games .

Plus Wolverine, God of War Greek Saga Remastered, Lost Soul Aside, etc.

I can see Sony launching all these games still in 2025.