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[Draugoth]

AMD is scheduled to perform a technical presentation on its next generation "Zen 5" CPU core at Hot Chips 2024 conference on August 27.

https://hotchips.org/advance-program/

These technical presentations take place after the official launch of the products, which means that the launch will happen before August 27.

Current rumors suggest that the launch will happen on June 3 at Computex 2024, with availability a few weeks later.

https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/pr...a-name-and-hints-at-an-imminent-release-date/

 

[Three]

What makes it a "gaming CPU" rather than just a desktop/laptop CPU?

 

[analog_future]

Pretty exciting!

Unfortunately the X3D chips will probably still be several months out.

 

[SantaC]

What makes it a "gaming CPU" rather than just a desktop/laptop CPU?

3D cache

 

[howitis3]

First chips will not have 3d cache. Likely 6 months later

 

[SHA]

3D cache

What's the difference in games?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Your thread title has a typo BTW it still says 'Zen 4' which is the current gen

 

[Three]

3D cache

I think the title is just messed up. It's Zen 5 not 4 and it's not gaming specific. None of the sources mention gaming specifically since 3D cache is beneficial to more than just gaming and not all Zen 5 CPUs will have 3D cache AFAIK. Will they?

 

[Loomy]

What makes it a "gaming CPU" rather than just a desktop/laptop CPU?

AMD generally has 3 CPU types. Server(Epyc), Workstation(Threadripper), and 'PC'(Ryzen and Athlon). The PC group - specifically Ryzen - is advertised for gaming, productivity, AI.

 

[Three]

AMD generally has 3 CPU types. Server(Epyc), Workstation(Threadripper), and 'PC'(Ryzen and Athlon). The PC group - specifically Ryzen - is advertised for gaming, productivity, AI.

Yeah there are socket/ demographic categories they cater to and Ryzen is more consumer level products in laptops and desktops (Threadripper still uses the Ryzen branding too but is a little less consumer level). Zen 5 is the microarchitecture though and is related to all the CPUs they make across all categories.

 

[Chiggs]

Don't forget the ARM chips arriving later this year. She was at the Microsoft event today via video and said "All in."

 

[Leonidas]

May as well wait for Arrow Lake (2024 launch) to see who is the 2024 gaming champion.

In 2022 Raptor Lake was PC CPU gaming king

 

[Loomy]

Yeah there are socket/ demographic categories they cater to and Ryzen is more consumer level products in laptops and desktops (Threadripper still uses the Ryzen branding too but is a little less consumer level). Zen 5 is the microarchitecture though and is related to all the CPUs they make across all categories.

You are correct.

 

[Silver Wattle]

May as well wait for Arrow Lake (2024 launch) to see who is the 2024 gaming champion.

In 2022 Raptor Lake was PC CPU gaming king

 

[Celcius]

I'm looking forward to seeing what they're cooking up.

 

[OverHeat]

X3D or nothing else

 

[Irobot82]

What's the difference in games?

More FPS, better frame pacing.

 

[Leonidas]

Most places showed Raptor Lake to be faster than Zen4.

Even the 13600K beat the fastest 2022 Zen4 CPU.

In 2022 Zen4 was only as fast as the fastest 12th Gen CPU.

Zen4 was barely faster than Zen3 3D (with 7600X losing).

 

[Celcius]

X3D or nothing else

eh, Zen 5 without 3d v cache should be faster than Zen 4 with 3d v cache for gaming right? I feel like there's always something better around the corner the following year...
I just hope we get something interesting this time like the 3d chips at launch, or more than 8 cores on a single CCX at launch

 

[Leonidas]

eh, Zen 5 without 3d v cache should be faster than Zen 4 with 3d v cache for gaming right?

You'd hope so, but last time Zen4 barely beat Zen3 3D.

I won't be shocked if Zen5 ends up slightly slower than Zen4 3D in gaming, with AMD needing another 3D CPU next year to beat their 2023 gaming CPUs.

 

[Dorfdad]

What makes it a "gaming CPU" rather than just a desktop/laptop CPU?

Generally Cache size which is optimal for gaming at least with the X3D series

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/technologies/3d-v-cache.html

 

[AncientOrigin]

Most places showed Raptor Lake to be faster than Zen4.

Even the 13600K beat the fastest 2022 Zen4 CPU.

In 2022 Zen4 was only as fast as the fastest 12th Gen CPU.

Zen4 was barely faster than Zen3 3D (with 7600X losing).

The CPU you show are trash even if they Are a few percent faster in Games the Energy usage is a joke. not worth it.AMD is absolutely the winner here no discussion

 

[Dr.D00p]

All very nice but it's that Zen 5 APU with upto 16 cores and 40 RDNA 3.5 CU's that is the real game changer. Really interested to see what that, and its cut down siblings, brings to the party for mobile gaming

 

[FireFly]

May as well wait for Arrow Lake (2024 launch) to see who is the 2024 gaming champion.

In 2022 Raptor Lake was PC CPU gaming king

I'm sure you would be waiting for AMD if it was the other way around.

 

[smbu2000]

Most places showed Raptor Lake to be faster than Zen4.

Even the 13600K beat the fastest 2022 Zen4 CPU.

In 2022 Zen4 was only as fast as the fastest 12th Gen CPU.

Zen4 was barely faster than Zen3 3D (with 7600X losing).

So that “2022” limiter was to conveniently exclude the zen 4 3d cpus which released in Feb. 2023, 7950x3d/7900x3d. (april for the 7800x3d)

What does your chart look like with the 3d cpus included?
Most people knew that the 3d cpus would be higher performing than the standard models after seeing how well the 5800x3d did in comparison to the standard 5800x.

I didn’t buy into Zen 4 until after the release of the 3d cpus. Went with a 7800x3d and dumped my i9-12900ks.

 

[Spyxos]

Most places showed Raptor Lake to be faster than Zen4.

Even the 13600K beat the fastest 2022 Zen4 CPU.

In 2022 Zen4 was only as fast as the fastest 12th Gen CPU.

Zen4 was barely faster than Zen3 3D (with 7600X losing).

 

[The Skull]

Looking forward to seeing the x3d chips. My 5800x3d has been such a good investment. Hopefully Intel can become relevant again. A monopoly is bad for everyone.

 

[Leonidas]

So that “2022” limiter was to conveniently exclude the zen 4 3d cpus which released in Feb. 2023, 7950x3d/7900x3d. (april for the 7800x3d)

That's just the last time I researched CPUs, as I chose Raptor Lake over Zen4, since Raptor Lake was a better option at the time (and is still the better option for me to this day), faster gaming performance and better productivity/$, and cheaper overall platform at the time.

What does your chart look like with the 3d cpus included?

3D is faster, but I wonder if Zen5 "non3D" beats 7800X3D? Would be a shame if it doesn't. Zen4 beat Zen3 3D only by a hair.

Its a disaster if Zen5 loses to Zen4X3D.

Arrow Lake will almost certainly be a bit faster than Zen4 3D.

I didn’t buy into Zen 4 until after the release of the 3d cpus. Went with a 7800x3d and dumped my i9-12900ks.

Congrats.

I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between those two CPUs in the games I play since I lock my monitor to 120 Hz... my 13600K is similar performance to your old KS. I want my next CPU to be at least 40% faster before thinking about upgrading. I wouldn't even think of doing a full rebuild for a mild performance upgrade. Hopefully Zen5 and Arrow Lake deliver, else I'll be waiting another generation...

I also wouldn't take a step back in productivity, which you did by going back to only 8 cores. 7800X3D loses to the much cheaper 13600K in multicore loads

The CPU you show are trash even if they Are a few percent faster in Games the Energy usage is a joke. not worth it.AMD is absolutely the winner here no discussion

13600K energy usage isn't a joke.

Non-K Raptor Lake CPUs also have similar gaming efficiency to Zen4.

 

[MrRenegade]

Hot chips conference. Main sponsor: lays+messi.

 

[MadViking]

I cannot wait to replace my 13700kf, one of the worst CPU I ever bought

 

[Skifi28]

May as well wait for Arrow Lake (2024 launch) to see who is the 2024 gaming champion

No.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

What's the difference in games?

Price. That's all Desktop performance still gonna top notch.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

These things will be monsters!

Still waiting for sub 150 good DDR5 boards though.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

I also wouldn't take a step back in productivity, which you did by going back to only 8 cores. 7800X3D loses to the much cheaper 13600K in multicore loads

13600K energy usage isn't a joke.

189W vs 77W on multicore load is an absolute joke, just like you.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

3D cache

3D cache is more than just for gaming also it doesn't work for all games AFAIK. The reason they would be considered gaming CPUS, is that usually gaming CPUS have higher clocks at the cost of some corecount. It's GAF, so someone WILL correct me if I am wrong.

 

[winjer]

3D cache is more than just for gaming also it doesn't work for all games AFAIK. The reason they would be considered gaming CPUS, is that usually gaming CPUS have higher clocks at the cost of some corecount. It's GAF, so someone WILL correct me if I am wrong.

But you are wrong.
Just compare the 7700X vs 7800X3D. Same number of cores and threads. But the 7800X3D, despite having lower boost clocks, still beats the 7700X in all games.
The question is not if the L3 cache benefits, but how much.

Regarding productivity, I have only seen one application that really benefits from the 3D cache, that was Autocad, with some workloads.
So the moniker of gaming CPU, fits the 7800X3D, very well.

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review - The Best Gaming CPU

AMD's Ryzen 7 7800X3D is everything that gamers want: eight fast cores, in a single CCD, with 3D VCache stacked on top at a price point of $450. In our review we can confirm that 7800X3D is indeed the fastest gaming CPU available, beating Intel's 13900K and even the 7950X3D.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[welshrat]

But you are wrong.
Just compare the 7700X vs 7800X3D. Same number of cores and threads. But the 7800X3D, despite having lower boost clocks, still beats the 7700X in all games.
The question is not if the L3 cache benefits, but how much.

Regarding productivity, I have only seen one application that really benefits from the 3D cache, that was Autocad, with some workloads.
So the moniker of gaming CPU, fits the 7800X3D, very well.

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Review - The Best Gaming CPU

AMD's Ryzen 7 7800X3D is everything that gamers want: eight fast cores, in a single CCD, with 3D VCache stacked on top at a price point of $450. In our review we can confirm that 7800X3D is indeed the fastest gaming CPU available, beating Intel's 13900K and even the 7950X3D.

www.techpowerup.com

True.

Although these CPUs are so powerful, especially the large core count ones that productivity doesn't suffer much on them.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

37 posts and no “I’ll stick with my xxx” posts yet, I’m impressed!

Have there been any reliable sources saying no 3D vcache versions at launch? Or are we just guessing based on the 5000 and 7000 series?

 

[Leonidas]

189W vs 77W on multicore load is an absolute joke, just like you.

13600K beats 7800X3D by nearly 30 seconds in this test. A massacre.

7800X3D is a lot slower in multicore, so yes, it should use a lot less power.

To get the 13600K down to 7800X3D's abysmal multi-core performance you'd have to downclock it by a lot, which then you could undervolt it by a lot, and then the power difference between the two would be minimal.

 

[JRW]

Always cracks me up when people just blanket statement the whole AMD vs Intel power usage difference, you mean to tell me an 8 core CPU uses less power than a 24 core CPU? No kidding? huh... who would've thought.

 

[Zathalus]

13600K beats 7800X3D by nearly 30 seconds in this test. A massacre.

7800X3D is a lot slower in multicore, so yes, it should use a lot less power.

To get the 13600K down to 7800X3D's abysmal multi-core performance you'd have to downclock it by a lot, which then you could undervolt it by a lot, and then the power difference between the two would be minimal.

The 7900 would be a better comparison, similar power draw in blender but the 7900 is 23 seconds faster.

Also funny that you would classify the 7800X3D multi-core performance as abysmal, it is perfectly fine for an 8 core CPU.

 

[spons]

Can't believe I would ever say this, but Intel is dead to me. Nothing they do appeals to me.
Their open-source graphics drivers on Linux are a breath of fresh air, and that's about it.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Always cracks me up when people just blanket statement the whole AMD vs Intel power usage difference, you mean to tell me an 8 core CPU uses less power than a 24 core CPU? No kidding? huh... who would've thought.

Only thing I really care about is gaming…. where 7800X3D draws like 1/3 the power of similarly priced Intel CPUs while outperforming them most of the time.

 

[Leonidas]

The 7900 would be a better comparison, similar power draw in blender but the 7900 is 23 seconds faster.

Yeah, the 7900 destroys the 7800X3D in multi-core efficiency, its too bad 7900 gaming performance falls a bit behind the 13600K.

Also funny that you would classify the 7800X3D multi-core performance as abysmal, it is perfectly fine for an 8 core CPU.

8-core is a low core count in 2024.

I couldn't see myself giving up 30% mutli-core performance from my current CPU.

 

[Zathalus]

Yeah, the 7900 destroys the 7800X3D in multi-core efficiency, its too bad 7900 gaming performance falls a bit behind the 13600K.

Then compare it to the 7900X3D. Same performance in Blender, big increase in gaming performance.

8-core is a low core count in 2024.

I couldn't see myself giving up 30% mutli-core performance from my current CPU.

If the user only cares about gaming then 8-core is perfectly fine and would probably be fine for at least another 5 years.

 

[Soodanim]

AMD can you get this to market because Shadows of the Erdtree please? Thanks

 

[FireFly]

The 7900 would be a better comparison, similar power draw in blender but the 7900 is 23 seconds faster.

Also funny that you would classify the 7800X3D multi-core performance as abysmal, it is perfectly fine for an 8 core CPU.

It's funny because I remember Leonidas recommending the 8 thread 9700K over the 16 thread 3700X, despite it being more expensive, for that extra 10% gaming performance. But now that Intel is losing in gaming, multicore performance is suddenly super important.

 

[Leonidas]

Then compare it to the 7900X3D. Same performance in Blender, big increase in gaming performance.

vs. 13600K? Big difference in price. I'd rather compare CPUs of similar price class.

Even today no CPU can match 13600K in multi-core price/performance.

If the user only cares about gaming then 8-core is perfectly fine and would probably be fine for at least another 5 years.

Yeah its great for gaming, but I didn't build a $1500 machine to only play games very well, multi-core matters to me.

Economics of buying a 7800X3D never made sense to me.

You spend 2x the price of the 7600X and only get 20% more gaming performance, but only if you game at 1080p and use a 4090.

If I cared only about gaming I'd just buy the 7600X or the cheaper 12600K and put the rest to a GPU.

I buy mid-range GPUs and game at 1440p, so the 7800X3D in my system would only be marginally faster since I'm more GPU bound. And my multi-core performance would go way down. 7800X3D is a downgrade for me.

Someone who buys a 7800X3D doesn't seem to be the type of person to hold a CPU for 5 years. 5 years from now 7800X3D will perform worse than a $200 CPU.

 

[Zathalus]

vs. 13600K? Big difference in price? I'd rather compare CPUs of similar price class.

Then the 7900 is perfectly adequate. As you yourself said below, you wont notice the difference in gaming.

Yeah its great for gaming, but I didn't build a $1500 machine to only play games very well, multi-core matters to me.

Economics of buying a 7800X3D never made sense to me.

You spend 2x the price of the 7600X and only get 20% more gaming performance, but only if you game at 1080p and use a 4090.

If I cared about gaming I'd just buy the 7600X and put the rest to a GPU.

I buy mid-range GPUs and game at 1440p, so the 7800X3D in my system would only be marginally faster since I'm more GPU bound.

Someone who buys a 7800X3D doesn't seem to be the type of person to hold a CPU for 5 years. 5 years from now 7800X3D will perform worse than a $200 CPU.

Either gaming performance matters or it doesn't.

 

[Frwrd]

All very nice but it's that Zen 5 APU with upto 16 cores and 40 RDNA 3.5 CU's that is the real game changer. Really interested to see what that, and its cut down siblings, brings to the party for mobile gaming

That Strix Halo is going to be fucking bonkers