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[AlphaSnake]

The last thread had its ups, its downs, and it had lots of heartfelt and passionate arguments, a lot of which provided us with lolz. But there was one thing many of us agreed on and it was that this brand:

And this car:

...were by far the most exciting things happening in the automotive industry over the past few years. Every Jaguar has a hi-po version that boasts 550HP from a supercharged 5.0L V8. And soon, there will be two new additions to that stable. An SUV and a C-segment sedan to compete against the 3-series, C-Class, Q50, and A4.

Here is the Jaguar XE:

And here is the Jaguar CX17 Concept:

While Jaguars' been busy making beautiful cars, BMW's been busy lying to us and diluting their brand to carry more and more pointless cars. BMW announced that all even numbered cars would be coupes, and all odd numbered cars would be sedans.

Except they lied. Because they went on to release this:

A 4-Series "Gran Coupe". A 4-door sedan, with a 4-series badge on it. No different than what they did with the 6-series Gran Coupe, except the 6-series looks a ton better than the 5-series. Meanwhile the 4-series and 3-series look nearly the same.

To keep shitting on their fans diehard following and to further make a mockery of their naming convention. BMW announced an all new, true-to-form BMW...the 2-series! More specifically, the M235i had many excited.

Dimensionally beautiful, easy on the eyes, good bump in power, optional LSD, RWD, and a decent price tag.

But then they announced this:

Which is still called a 2-series. But it has nothing to do with the 2-series above it. For starters it's ugly. It's a hatchback/mini-mini van, and not even a hot one at that. Worst of all? It's FWD and once again, shares the same nomenclature with the above gorgeous 2-series. Furthermore, it disrupts BMW's entire philosophy of odds and evens and what they mean. Further proving the company has turned into some clusterfuck of naming conventions that they can't even make sense of.

Just imagine you bought yourself an M235i and you tell people you've got a 2-series...are you going to sit there and let people assume you bought a FWD nanny car? Or will you add to your comment and specify that it's a 320HP quasi-M car?

Welcome to the new OT.

 

[Pterion]

Great OP!

 

[Flo_Evans]

But then they announced this:

What is that. What. is. that.

 

[whatsinaname]

The title doesn't make sense. Everything is faster than a GT86.

What is that. What. is. that.

Special model created for NoLoveForFailWheelDrive.

 

[zbeeb]

dat jaguar love <3

In the market for a new car and thinking of a 2001-2005 3xxci

Guy nearby is selling this beauty

2003 325Ci
Facelift model (not your usual 2000-2002 model). comes with different headlights and also LED taillights.
Rare manual transmission
Black leather interior
Flip out touch screen stereo unit/bluetooth
Tints
19" wheels with excellent cond tyres
Eibach Pro Kit- German made springs
Tastefully moded- Front M3 bumper, Rear M Tech II bumper (OEM), M3 sideskirts.
Just been serviced, recently cooling system has been overhauled.
Car has been my daily driver for 70,000kms and has provided me with trouble free motoring.
Selling for something more practical, sedan or 4x4.

froth, little out of my price range though. Anyone know of any issues I should be weary of with the e46 models?

 

[AlphaSnake]

The title doesn't make sense. Everything is faster than a GT86.

Hahaha ouch.

 

[AlphaSnake]

dat jaguar love <3

In the market for a new car and thinking of a 2001-2005 3xxci

Guy nearby is selling this beauty



froth, little out of my price range though. Anyone know of any issues I should be weary of with the e46 models?

To my understanding, E46 post facelift are pretty rock solid cars. How much does he want for it? Is 70,000 Km how long he's had the car, or what the total clock on the odometer is?

 

[KingGondo]

My unrealistic car dreams are kept alive by a combination of this thread and Top Gear.

Alpha: assuming I eventually buy a Jag, do you get a commission?

 

[AlphaSnake]

My unrealistic car dreams are kept alive by a combination of this thread and Top Gear.

Alpha: assuming I eventually buy a Jag, do you get a commission?

If you count a smile on my face as commission, then yes.

Why don't you step this way and I'll run your credit info. I'll just need your social, a credit card, and your drivers license.

 

[TCRS]

My unrealistic car dreams are kept alive by a combination of this thread and Top Gear.

Alpha: assuming I eventually buy a Jag, do you get a commission?

i know that feel. I build myself a new 4 series everyday on the configurator. The 435 with M sport package in black is so damn sexy.

The title doesn't make sense. Everything is faster than a GT86.

kek

 

[Flo_Evans]

dat jaguar love <3

In the market for a new car and thinking of a 2001-2005 3xxci

Guy nearby is selling this beauty



froth, little out of my price range though. Anyone know of any issues I should be weary of with the e46 models?

Broken rear springs. Window motors break easily if you live in a cold climate. Strange odor from glue used for carpets on hot summer days (smells like melted crayons). Parts are generally expensive.

 

[zbeeb]

To my understanding, E46 post facelift are pretty rock solid cars. How much does he want for it? Is 70,000 Km how long he's had the car, or what the total clock on the odometer is?

Yeah I've read decent things about them. apparently there's some issue with window regulators seizing up?

Total 164000km, which is quite a lot... But it seems like its been looked after fairly well. Asking $16900 (in Australia)

Edit:

Broken rear springs. Window motors break easily if you live in a cold climate. Strange odor from glue used for carpets on hot summer days (smells like melted crayons). Parts are generally expensive.

Springs have been changed and I live in Perth, so a cold climate isn't really an issue. Melted crayon scent could be a problem! haha

 

[No Love]

God damn it Alpha, I was making it. Oh well, I like yours. lol

Speaking of E46's, my girlfriend really wants to sell her Civic and get an E46 330i... found a really nice blue one we might go look at.

 

[KingGondo]

If you count a smile on my face as commission, then yes.

Why don't you step this way and I'll run your credit info. I'll just need your social, a credit card, and your drivers license.

PM sent.

Seriously though, my goal at this point is to pay off my student loans, get my retirement fund going, and then when that's done I can justify committing more of my $$$ toward a car.

 

[Smokey]

We in here

I predict Alpha will soon turn on jag like he turned his back on audi!

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Zero to pointless fighting faster than a GT86

My sides.

We in here

I predict Alpha will soon turn on jag like he turned his back on audi!

He'll make the switch when Infiniti starts throwing the GT-R's engine in every Q car going forward.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Yeah I've read decent things about them. apparently there's some issue with window regulators seizing up?

Total 164000km, which is quite a lot... But it seems like its been looked after fairly well. Asking $16900 (in Australia)

Edit:



Springs have been changed and I live in Perth, so a cold climate isn't really an issue. Melted crayon scent could be a problem! haha

That seems high but Australia car prices are high from what I have read. I bought a 2002 e46 325xi with 80,000 miles on it for $16k 6 years ago...

 

[coldfoot]

I really want to love the F-Type R, styling, engine pretty much perfect, but then why 4000 lbs??? I'm not asking for a lotus here but 3500-3600 should've been the weight of that car.

 

[AlphaSnake]

We in here

I predict Alpha will soon turn on jag like he turned his back on audi!

I had a love/hate relationship with all of my Audis in the past. The A4 2.0T was a nice little car, but unreliable junk. The A6 4.2 was a fantastic car, but riddled with electrical issues - but it did last 75K miles without major issues and it was a first model year car too with a gen-1 MMI.

The 2012 A6 3.0T though, yikes...Audi as a brand shit the bed. Everything became sterile and boring, even the motors. I'd still much rather have the S5 4.2, over the S5 3.0T.

Ultimately, at the end of the day, I hold no allegiance to any car maker. I stick to whatever makes me the happiest and appeals to me the most. Right now it's Jaguar and Infiniti - they make the cars that tick off all of my boxes to satisfy me:

RWD
Big motors
Nice interiors
Appealing designs
Great handling
Reliable

If the two companies start to drop the ball like Audi and BMW have, and I find that a brand like Lincoln is ticking off all the right boxes for me, then hell...I'll get a Lincoln. Hahaha. Let's just hope that day never comes.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I really want to love the F-Type R, styling, engine pretty much perfect, but then why 4000 lbs??? I'm not asking for a lotus here but 3500-3600 should've been the weight of that car.

The F-Type V8S Convertible is 3900lbs loaded, so the F-Type R is supposed to be around 3600lbs.

A lot of the weight comes from the chassis reinforcement though to make the convertible and coupe such agile cars. The coupe's chassis is actually 80% stiffer than the convertible, which is crazy.

 

[coldfoot]

The F-Type V8S Convertible is 3900lbs loaded, so the F-Type R is supposed to be around 3600lbs.

A lot of the weight comes from the chassis reinforcement though to make the convertible and coupe such agile cars. The coupe's chassis is actually 80% stiffer than the convertible, which is crazy.

My bad, Jaguar site says 3638 lbs for the F-Type R, which is reasonable for the given size, engine/transmission combo, and price. C&D test said 3950lbs for the weight, hence my disappointment.
4000 lbs would be ridiculous for the F-Type R, the similarly priced GT-R weighs 3850 lbs for crying out loud and it's a bigger car with rear seats and AWD, and a chassis that's just as stiff.

 

[AlphaSnake]

My bad, Jaguar site says 3638 lbs for the F-Type R, which is reasonable for the given size, engine/transmission combo, and price. C&D test said 3950lbs for the weight, hence my disappointment.
4000 lbs would be ridiculous for the F-Type R, the similarly priced GT-R weighs 3850 lbs for crying out loud and it's a bigger car with rear seats and AWD.

Having driven both cars, it's immediately noticeable why the GT-R weighs what it does, and why the Jaguar does.

The GT-R AWD drivetrain adds a lot of heft to the car's weight, moreso than other AWD systems. Driveshafts are extremely strong and thick to handle the instant snap of the car's torque and furthermore, the transmission has to be built to be able to withstand launch control. The innards of the transmission, motor, and drivetrain components (differentials, axles, driveshafts, clutches, flywheel) are incredibly complex and reinforced to be able to withstand a lot of abuse - this adds to the weight considerably.

Furthermore, the twin turbos and all of the components involved with it (lots of piping, larger intercoolers, lines, etc) add weight. Superchargers on the other hand, like the Jaguars, aren't nearly as complex. Then you have adjustable dampers. Add to that a rather heavy OEM exhaust system, including the cats.

What's crazy is that the GT-R isn't even a very well insulated car. You can hear the OEM exhaust woosh and whurr at very low speeds. Pebbles knocking around underneath the car. Road noise. Etc. The rear seats, frankly, are unusable. I've seen coupes where people call the rear seats impossible to use (G37, E92 BMW, 6-series, Porsches, etc)...but this is truly one of those moments where you indeed cannot sit in the back of a GTR. It's just excruciatingly impossible. I had a TT-S once as a loaner, and with 3 people took it to Panera...somehow that worked. The GT-R? Impossible, there is simply no rear legroom, and if the front passenger moves forward, his/her forehead will be resting on the rake of the windshield.

Having said that, the Jaguar's weight is apparent because it is a giant 5.0L V8 stuffed into a fairly small shell. It's also an extremely wide car with incredible presence. I believe it's wider than my M56S and many other full sized saloons and sedans. What it lacks in mechanical grip, it makes up in stability with the aforementioned chassis design, which is an all aluminum chassis btw. A lot of reinforcements add to the car's ability to have structural grip - it adds weight to the car, but keeps the driving experience pure and less complicated and messy. The Jaguar's exhaust system is also fairly heavy, it is what gives it that incredible pop...but likewise, because the car is so low to the ground and because the exhaust is so low, a lot of sound deadening has to be added all throughout the car to drown out excessive noise.

My old 370Z had virtually no sound deadening, and on stone/concrete roads it was so extremely annoying to drive if you've had a long day and you just want quiet - the road noise could be excruciating sometimes on that car. It's why Nissan made the stock exhaust quieter on the 370Z over the 350Z.

On the F-Type, you'll always hear the exhaust and motor on the outside of the car, but the unpleasant noise, vibration, tire roar, and exhaust booms will hardly enter the cabin...yet you can still hear the exhaust snarl when you step on it, and pop-pop when you let off. The NVH of the Jaguar is simply flawless and they don't have to resort to stupid audio speaker tricks like BMW does with the new Ms.

So the Jags weight is from chassis structural reinforcement, width, size, and sound isolation.

While the GT-R's weight is purely mechanical related.

 

[ameratsu]

Ok... ok... I smirked at the new title.

 

[mkenyon]

So the Jags weight is from stuff that makes it slower and worse.

While the GT-R's weight is from stuff that makes it faster and awesome.

Fixt.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Fixt.

Structural reinforcement makes the car faster on a track. And the trap times for the F-Type V8S and the GT-R are pretty damn close, around the 122MPH mark in a 1/4 mile.

 

[mkenyon]

Structural reinforcement makes the car faster on a track. And the trap times for the F-Type V8S and the GT-R are pretty damn close, around the 122MPH mark in a 1/4 mile.

You're such an easy mark.

 

[RukusProvider]

And when you really want to go fast, there's this:

 

[ameratsu]

Alternative thread title: Automotive Discussion Thread | OT2 | Discerning posters have exclusionary discussions about expensive cars

 

[AlphaSnake]

You're such an easy mark.

I'm just sayin! Hahaha

 

[ascii42]

I had a love/hate relationship with all of my Audis in the past. The A4 2.0T was a nice little car, but unreliable junk. The A6 4.2 was a fantastic car, but riddled with electrical issues - but it did last 75K miles without major issues and it was a first model year car too with a gen-1 MMI.

The 2012 A6 3.0T though, yikes...Audi as a brand shit the bed. Everything became sterile and boring, even the motors. I'd still much rather have the S5 4.2, over the S5 3.0T.

Ultimately, at the end of the day, I hold no allegiance to any car maker. I stick to whatever makes me the happiest and appeals to me the most. Right now it's Jaguar and Infiniti - they make the cars that tick off all of my boxes to satisfy me:

RWD
Big motors
Nice interiors
Appealing designs
Great handling
Reliable

If the two companies start to drop the ball like Audi and BMW have, and I find that a brand like Lincoln is ticking off all the right boxes for me, then hell...I'll get a Lincoln. Hahaha. Let's just hope that day never comes.

First Lincoln has to get to the day where they make a RWD car. Hopefully at least that day comes. Cadillac can't be the only American luxury company. And even Cadillac doesn't make a proper full size luxury car.

 

[No Love]

And when you really want to go fast, there's this:

I really don't think I can get an F Type R coupe after seeing that. The new Z06 looks like a snake coiled and ready to attack. Even meaner than the new Viper.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I really don't think I can get an F Type R coupe after seeing that. The new Z06 looks like a snake coiled and ready to attack. Even meaner than the new Viper.

The major problem I'll always have with a Z06 is the sheer volume of Corvette Stingrays on the road already is just incredible. I see multiple C7s daily. The Z06 does stand out considerably, but I just can't shake how common Vettes are. :\

Then again, I will be honest, I highly contemplated buying one when I sold my 370Z.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Hey Alpha, what issues did you have with your A4? Was it a B8 or B7?

Alternative thread title: Automotive Discussion Thread | OT2 | Discerning posters have exclusionary discussions about expensive cars

Who owns the most expensive car on GAF anyway? I know EviLore has a 997 of some sort (I think?).

Wasn't there some gaffer in the middle east with a 458? I believe he got into a fatal accident though.

I know someone from AutoGAF got a brand new GT-R recently as well.

First Lincoln has to get to the day where they make a RWD car. Hopefully at least that day comes. Cadillac can't be the only American luxury company. And even Cadillac doesn't make a proper full size luxury car.

I really do wish Lincoln would step their game up. Ford has been doing a pretty good job with much of their lineup recently, I really don't see why they're having such a hard time with Lincoln.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Hey Alpha, what issues did you have with your A4? Was it a B8 or B7?



Who owns the most expensive car on GAF anyway? I know EviLore has a 997 of some sort (I think?).

Wasn't there some gaffer in the middle east with a 458? I believe he got into a fatal accident though.

I know someone from AutoGAF got a brand new GT-R recently as well.



I really do wish Lincoln would step their game up. Ford has been doing a pretty good job with much of their lineup recently, I really don't see why they're having such a hard time with Lincoln.

It was a B7 A4 2.0T. It was my wife's first cool car back in 2008. It had every issue known to man...if there was a TSB for it, the car had it and the Audi dealer in NY never fixed any of them correctly. It was the most frustrating experience imaginable.

Timing issue, camshaft, turbo, injectors, camshaft follower, fuel pump, and the cherry that made her flip the lid: a dead battery that the dealership said was perfectly fine two weeks prior.

We traded that piece of shit in for the E92 335i, which she loved. But silly problems started creeping up on that car, such as the water pump and misfires with no codes.

 

[TCRS]

leaked pics of the new Hyundai Sonata:

http://www.bobaedream.co.kr/view?code=newcar&No=19240&rtn=/list?code=newcar

the front part looks weird. the nose is too big.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

It was a B7 A4 2.0T. It was my wife's first cool car back in 2008. It had every issue known to man...if there was a TSB for it, the car had it and the Audi dealer in NY never fixed any of them correctly. It was the most frustrating experience imaginable.

Timing issue, camshaft, turbo, injectors, camshaft follower, fuel pump, and the cherry that made her flip the lid: a dead battery that the dealership said was perfectly fine two weeks prior.

We traded that piece of shit in for the E92 335i, which she loved. But silly problems started creeping up on that car, such as the water pump and misfires with no codes.

Well, I'll just knock on wood and hope that they ironed out those...kinks...with the B8. I'm still worried that as soon as it hits 50,001 miles every light in the dash will light up at once and the gates of hell will open underneath me.

 

[Halvie]

It was a B7 A4 2.0T. It was my wife's first cool car back in 2008. It had every issue known to man...if there was a TSB for it, the car had it and the Audi dealer in NY never fixed any of them correctly. It was the most frustrating experience imaginable.

Timing issue, camshaft, turbo, injectors, camshaft follower, fuel pump, and the cherry that made her flip the lid: a dead battery that the dealership said was perfectly fine two weeks prior.

We traded that piece of shit in for the E92 335i, which she loved. But silly problems started creeping up on that car, such as the water pump and misfires with no codes.

Was this all at once? Did the follower fail before most of the other repairs(hpfp/camshaft)?

Well, I'll just knock on wood and hope that they ironed out those...kinks...with the B8. I'm still worried that as soon as it hit 50,001 miles every light in the dash will light up at once and the gates of hell will open underneath me.

Check the wear on the follower every oil change. Doesn't take long / cheap and easy to replace if it needs it.

New R's are still having issues with them failing.

 

[No Love]

Well, I'll just knock on wood and hope that they ironed out those...kinks...with the B8. I'm still worried that as soon as it hit 50,001 miles every light in the dash will light up at once and the gates of hell will open underneath me.

LOL it's not that bad. I'm buying a 13-14 year old M5 and I'm not even worried about it... although it is a BMW and not an Audi. Yeesh... Audi has the same kind of car herpes that VW does, and that's bad mojo.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

I'll probably end up getting rid of it in the next couple of years anyway.

I'm getting married in that time frame so I'd rather just keep it now so I don't need to worry about saving cash for a sports car AND a ring/diamond/honeymoon. I'll upgrade after all that other stuff. (#fwp)


I like the front fascia of that new Sonata, but jesus christ at that overhang. It's like it's Front-Front Wheel Drive.

Also, MotorSportGAF, Sebring and Australian GP this weekend. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[zbeeb]

That seems high but Australia car prices are high from what I have read. I bought a 2002 e46 325xi with 80,000 miles on it for $16k 6 years ago...

Yeah australia, and western australia especially is quite expensive for cars. I'd say its pretty fairly priced

 

[AlphaSnake]

Was this all at once? Did the follower fail before most of the other repairs(hpfp/camshaft)?



Check the wear on the follower every oil change. Doesn't take long / cheap and easy to replace if it needs it.

New R's are still having issues with them failing.

They kept changing everything but the follower initially. It wasn't until I got really angry and asked them if they're doing the TSB exactly as specified because none of my work orders specified they replaced the follower, and that they are supposed to replace it if they do work on the camshaft. And not to forget the fuel pump, as well.

It was basically fault after fault after fault for about 1 year or so. The first year we had the car, it was fine. Honestly, it could've been all cleared up in one visit...but Biener Audi in Great Neck, NY is such an awful fucking dealer from sales to service, that I wouldn't be surprised if they were doing this on purpose just to get more labor hours on the clock. Ultimately, it's the service advisors who get a bit of a cut, and the service tech is paid more the more he works or the longer a job is "quoted" to take.

Such an enormous rip off to the consumer. All of the work was done under warranty (except the dead battery), but the hassle of always being stuck without a car constantly was pissing us off.

 

[Smokey]

And when you really want to go fast, there's this:

oh lawd

;_;

 

[Zyzyxxz]

And when you really want to go fast, there's this:

That will be my future car in white hopefully 2 years from now.

 

[PseudoKirby]

leaked pics of the new Hyundai Sonata:

http://www.bobaedream.co.kr/view?code=newcar&No=19240&rtn=/list?code=newcar

the front part looks weird. the nose is too big.

looks like they are trying to copy the ford fusion.


Thats all Hyundai ever does is copy.

their cars have no Soul

 

[jongkookie]

Thats all Hyundai ever does is copy.

their cars have no Soul

Which is why Kia is the better Korean brand.

Nice OT btw. Still waiting for JAAAAAG to release the F-Type with a stick, until then I'm all about the 'vette.

Spoiler

Even though I can't afford any of them right now haha.

 

[Mattlikewhoa]

I had a nice laugh at the thread title...

And when you really want to go fast, there's this:

Is it bad that I still want a R35 over this Vette?

 

[AlphaSnake]

Which is why Kia is the better Korean brand.
]

Kia = Hyundai.

They're the exact same cars. And their designs are just as derivative. The new K900, for example is a German knock-off. And they just recently revealed another car that's an Audi A7 knock-off.

Kia and Hyundai remind of me of Grand Theft Auto cars.

 

[Viperbah]

More Z06 love

 

[Flo_Evans]

Q: If I sell my wife's car can I deduct the value from the tax paid on a new car?

Normally in Missouri you don't pay car sales tax on trade in value. I am wondering if I need to transfer the car title to myself though for that to work or if it doesn't matter because we are married.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

Kia = Hyundai.

They're the exact same cars. And their designs are just as derivative. The new K900, for example is a German knock-off. And they just recently revealed another car that's an Audi A7 knock-off.

Kia and Hyundai remind of me of Grand Theft Auto cars.

lol, that's a really good way to put it.

It seems pretty obvious that Kia is going for some sort of bastardized Audi/BMW hybrid in aesthetics, while Hyundai is the Mercedes knock-off.

I will admit that an optioned out Kia Optima looks fantastic.