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Avatar 2: Way of the Water is a Technical Marvel

I don't know where else I could really discuss this other than here as no one I know really cares.

For some reason, when viewing this movie in the theater I really wasn't all that impressed. However I watched it last night on my 55" LG OLED E8 with 9.1 Atmos and I was pretty blown away.

I kind of already had the feeling this was going to be the case as OLED's usually do movies more of a justice than most theater projectors in terms of color and depth. But never the less it really impressed me.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not here praising the overall story and writing as even though it's more engaging than the first one character wise and the plot has slightly more depth to it, the overall story isn't anything special, mind blowing or even that original, similar to how the first movie is. What really stands out though are the visuals, the cinematography, the action set pieces and the musical score as well that was (dare I say leagues) better than the original score.

In my opinion, this is the first CGI film that has scenes that are indistinguishable from reality. Certain scenes look so great in fact that there is real, physical material, water and skin in the shot connected to CGI and my brain was unable to tell which was which. It's absolutely insane. When I think back to even the first movie this wasn't the case. But not only that, there are actually full CGI shots that look 100% real which I personably don't think has been achieved before by any filmmaker or studio.

I lean heavily towards the anti-CGI realm myself in terms of general modern filmmaking (not for videogames). I tend to think that it should only be used as a last resort scenario and for things that you absolutely cannot do with props, sets or physicals special effects and models. To me CGI is only really done properly when it takes years to do (Like 13 years for Avatar 2) and the scene is filmed with a real camera (preferably film) on a physical location or set (Jurassic Park 1 through 3 are great examples of this and you can see how the animators got better with each film) or when the entire scene including the characters, set, lighting and background is well crafted CGI. Take something like The Last of Us 2 as an example for the latter. To me the human characters in that game look fully real and believable because it was created with extreme detail to the animation, texture quality and lighting. The characters including the world around them all fit together like an animated puzzle.

So for Avatar 2 to make such an impact on me it was actually pretty crazy. I really just can't believe how the entire ocean looks especially. The underwater scenes literally look like an actual fish tank on my screen. It felt like being at the aquarium looking through the glass, that's how clear this movie is resolution wise. There was a short scenes where the Sully family flies through a thunder storm and the waves are crashing against the cliffs along with rain past them and it actually made me tear up because of how incredible it looked and sounded. Growing up playing the Uncharted series of games I became obsessed with rain graphics since every single game has an updated version of a rain storm. This was the best animated rain scene I've ever seen.

Oh and the high frame rate 48fps shots are absolutely insane. I believe that if this movie ran at 60fps about 85% to 90% of the movie would simply look real, no questions asked. Where as it sits now I'd say it's more around a 50-50 split most of the time.

As for the sound quality. Holy shit I'm not even kidding, this is the best mastered movie I've ever heard. The sound is literally perfect. It feels like like you're actually in the presence of these characters and well as the forest and sea surrounding you. There wasn't a single instance where I could hear a microphone being artificially raised in volume or anything like that. It was flawless.

And finally, the musical score was really stepped up for this one. It's honestly awesome. You get the themes from the original combined with brand new music that enhances every moment of this movie, especially the set pieces. Outside of a few themes from the original it's not exactly memorable like a John Williams score is but still they did a fantastic job.

Now there are plenty of shots that don't look real and made me cringe a bit. The whole human colony just looks very fake and I think it has a lot to do with the grey and beige colors of the steel and concrete. Plus the humans in the mech suits are very uncanny. Luckily that is a smaller portion of the movie. The train crash, while looking cool didn't exactly look real. I could tell that it was an obvious train crash simulation of some kind. Looked kind of like BeamNG Drive which made me chuckle. There was also an instance in an underwater scene where I could see the repeating wave surface texture in the corner of the shot. That made me laugh too as it reminded me of looking out over the ocean in Uncharted: Drake's Fortune haha.

But all in all, this was the first time I watched an animated movie and actually wondered how some shots were accomplished. I'm excited to see what the next three movies bring to the table.

I'm just curious if other people have come to the same conclusion as me technology wise. Let me know what you thought!
 

Mossybrew

Gold Member
PUWN0tb.jpg
 

Trilobit

Member

I condensed it for you through openai:

I was more impressed watching the movie at home on my LG OLED TV with great visuals, sound, and music, though the story isn't exceptional. CGI scenes are incredibly realistic, while some parts look less convincing. The high frame rate shots are stunning, and the sound quality is flawless. The musical score was enhanced, and overall, I'm curious if others share my technological perspective

---

I haven't seen it on my OLED yet as the story wasn't really gripping. But the experience in 3D, OH BOY! That was the best 3D movie experience I've had. It was a true CGI masterpeice and Marvel should be ashamed for what they're producing nowadays.
 

Romulus

Member
It is incredible at times but the na'vi end up looking awkward outside of super close shots. Something about their movements has always seemed clusmy and off-putting with these gaint lanky creatures that are supposedly super fast and athletic but they also look goofy or like they could tip over.
And their design is very generic. A giant cat like humanoid with blue skin.
I feel it's fine but it'll look like those silly costumes in the old 1950s scifi movies sooner than later.
However it is a noticeable leap over the original.

The other creatures are awesome to see, just sucks the main na'vi are so uninspired, native American blue cat people. Lol
 
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It is incredible at times but the na'vi end up looking awkward outside of super close shots. Something about their movements has always seemed clusmy and off-putting with these gaint lanky creatures that are supposedly super fast and athletic but they also look goofy or like they could tip over.
And their design is very generic. A giant cat like humanoid with blue skin.
I feel it's fine but it'll look like those silly costumes in the old 1950s scifi movies sooner than later.
However it is a noticeable leap over the original.

The other creatures are awesome to see, just sucks the main na'vi are so uninspired, native American blue cat people. Lol
Yea I tend to agree. Something about movement and gravity doesn't look right in some of the scenes. The first movie has this too.

Getting gravity and weight correct in animation can do wonders for the rest of your work. A good example of this is how many video games struggle with the flow of water and how fast it moves on certain slopes. Even Naughty Dog who tends to make near perfect waterfalls suffers from this on occasion. When it doesn't flow properly it looks more like clear tree sap or something and your brain picks it up immediately.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
How are you watching 60 fps shots on a stream?

did they release the 4k bluray or something?
 

Spyxos

Member
How different the visual experiences can be. I was really impressed in the cinema by the technology (Imax 3d HFR) I unfortunately noticed the transitions from 30 fps to 48 and it took me almost 1 hour before I didn't notice it anymore.

But now recently I have seen Avatar 2 on a giant Oled from a friend. And it looked great but also somehow totally boring and my thoughts were very quickly where else, but no longer with the movie.

I've seen Avatar 1 more than 10 times and listened to the soundtrack many times for years to come. With Avatar 2, I only noticed the reveal trailer soundtrack, which I don't think appears in the movie at all.

 
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I watched the 1st one when it was released on Blu-ray it looked good but I didn't see what the fuss was about. I didn't bother with sequel. You're right few people irl really care.
I mean the first one was definitely ground breaking in terms of motion capture. So much so that even Uncharted 4 used the same technology for it's mo-cap.

I do want to buy the first one again in 4K. But this new one is a lot better in many aspects as expected.
 
How are you watching 60 fps shots on a stream?

did they release the 4k bluray or something?
Oh yes! I guess I should have mentioned it. I bought the 4K blu-ray. And certain scenes are shot at 48fps but I was saying that if it was 60fps instead it would look even better.
 
How different the visual experiences can be. I was really impressed in the cinema by the technology (Imax 3d HFR) I unfortunately noticed the transitions from 30 fps to 48 and it took me almost 1 hour before I didn't notice it anymore.

But now recently I have seen Avatar 2 on a giant Oled from a friend. And it looked great but also somehow totally boring and my thoughts were very quickly where else, but no longer with the movie.

I've seen Avatar 1 more than 10 times and listened to the soundtrack many times for years to come. With Avatar 2, I only noticed the reveal trailer soundtrack, which I don't think appears in the movie at all.


That's interesting because I had the opposite reaction. When I saw it in the theater I concluded that I enjoyed the story of the first one more and I still think that but some aspects have begun to flip with me towards 2. Sam Worthington somehow went even harder in this one and his performance is outstanding. Zoe Saldana is also amazing in this. I actually enjoyed watching both of their characters a lot and even the teenage actors are pretty good too. I just wonder how they'll push the visual tech for the next three.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Oh yes! I guess I should have mentioned it. I bought the 4K blu-ray. And certain scenes are shot at 48fps but I was saying that if it was 60fps instead it would look even better.
From what ive read so far, there doesnt seem to be HFR support on 4k blurays.
 
HFR makes the CGI better. I never noticed Spider's CGI body in HFR. The long "why so blue" shot of Quaritch looks real in HFR but not so much at regular framerate.
The Hobbit was the same - CGI characters had perfect movement and a feeling of weight that did not exist in 24 fps.
 
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HFR makes the CGI better. I never noticed Spider's CGI body in HFR. The long "why so blue" shot of Quaritch looks real in HFR but not so much at regular framerate.
The Hobbit was the same - CGI characters had perfect movement and a feeling of weight that did not exist in 24 fps.
The only reason I ever noticed this in the first place is because I watched Billy Lynn's Long Halftime walk and then subsequently Gemini Man.

Billy Lynn's shootout at the end looks real and has perfect blend of CGI and practical explosions, all at 60fps.

Gemini Man looks extremely clear, probably the highest resolution movie I've ever seen next to Avatar 2 now, but unfortunately the CGI is pretty uncanny in that though the 60fps elevates it above the quality it would be at in 24fps.

So yes, I agree fully with that. I wish more directors would leave 24fps behind, especially for animation.
 
UHD BD does not support HFR 48fps. The HDR on this release is also only at 200nits, which is a shame. Imo the final image looks rather dull, fucking shame because with a vivid grading/master this could have been a reference movie/disc.
You seem to know a lot more than me about this release so I'll ask you, why do some of the scenes in this look noticeably different than the rest of the movie framerate wise. Is it possible for them to be downscaled to 30fps? They are paced noticeably different than the rest of the movie. It's mainly in the fast paced action scenes.
 

Fbh

Member
Yeah the story and writing is still terrible but visually it's a treat.
Still haven't watched it at home but it was an amazing experience on IMAX. The only parts that looked bad IMO are some of the boats crashing in one of the final setpiece moments, I don't know why but they look wirdly fake.

The HFR itself is nice though I wish they had shot the entire movie at a high framerate. Constantly switching between different framerates was a bit jarring.
 

Husky

THE Prey 2 fanatic
You seem to know a lot more than me about this release so I'll ask you, why do some of the scenes in this look noticeably different than the rest of the movie framerate wise. Is it possible for them to be downscaled to 30fps? They are paced noticeably different than the rest of the movie. It's mainly in the fast paced action scenes.
I can confirm, after taking a look, that the 4K blu-ray plays at a constant 23.976 fps. I dunno the explanation behind your perceived change in frame pacing.

I'm a big fan of HFR movies (hell yeah Ang Lee), but it might be a while until we can see those 48FPS Hobbits and Avatars at home.

The HFR itself is nice though I wish they had shot the entire movie at a high framerate. Constantly switching between different framerates was a bit jarring.
Feel the same. The 24fps shots looked juddery when intercut with 48fps shots :lollipop_pensive:
 
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Fbh

Member
Feel the same. The 24fps shots looked juddery when intercut with 48fps shots :lollipop_pensive:

Yeah it's pretty much like frame rate in videogames.

30fps on it's own isn't terrible, you get used to it. But if the game switches over to 60fps every 15 minutes it will feel awful.
 
I can confirm, after taking a look, that the 4K blu-ray plays at a constant 23.976 fps. I dunno the explanation behind your perceived change in frame pacing.

I'm a big fan of HFR movies (hell yeah Ang Lee), but it might be a while until we can see those 48FPS Hobbits and Avatars at home.


Feel the same. The 24fps shots looked juddery when intercut with 48fps shots :lollipop_pensive:
Did you look at the actual 4K blu-ray? Or are you just confirming that from you're knowledge?

If all of you are saying that these 4K discs can't do HFR then I'm obviously wrong but something about certain shots looks visually different from the rest of the movie and I'm like 99% sure the scenes I'm talking about are the ones he actually shot in 48fps. So I'm wondering if it has something to do with the way they down sampled those shots to 24fps to match the rest of the movie.
 

RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
Avatar is not HFR on any home format and if you thought it looked good on your OLED (it does look incredible on mine tbf) it looked absolutely insane in actual HFR 3D in iMAX which would've been the proper way to see this flick
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
It’s quite simple UHD as a format does not support variable framerates.

So it’s either shutter speed of the simulated camera or a TVs motion clearity setting.
There are some camera movements where motion clearity works better.

Edit:
What I actually dislike are the raised blacks and muted highlights. If you watch a UHD movie mastered in actual HDR you can see what I mean.
MI6 for example has deep blacks, super flashy highlights happening in a single frame, that's what HDR was made for, A2 looks like a low contrast painting in comparison:
avater-the-way-of-water-disney-review-szene-17-1024x540.jpg

avater-the-way-of-water-disney-review-szene-2-1024x540.jpg

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mission-impossible-6-fallout-bd-vs-uhd-8.jpg
 
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