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Avatar: The Way of Water | Review Thread

Draugoth

Draugoth

Gold Member
avatar-the-way-of-water-poster.jpg


​

Rotten Tomatoes: 83% (30 reviews) with 7.1 in average rating

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Metacritic: 73/100 (40 critics)

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PLOT

Set more than a decade after the events of the first film, Avatar: The Way of Water begins to tell the story of the Sully family (Jake, Neytiri, and their kids), the trouble that follows them, the lengths they go to keep each other safe, the battles they fight to stay alive, and the tragedies they endure.

DIRECTOR:
  • James Cameron

SCREENPLAY:
  • James Cameron, Rick Jaffa & Amanda Silver

STORY:
  • James Cameron, Rick Jaffa, Amanda Silver, Josh Friedman & Shane Salerno

MUSIC:
  • Simon Franglen

CINEMATOGRAPHY:

Russell Carpenter

EDITING:

Stephen E. Rivkin, David Brenner, John Refoua & James Cameron

BUDGET:
  • $350-400 million

Release date:
  • December 16, 2022

STARRING:
  • Sam Worthington as Jake Sully
  • Zoe Saldaña as Neytiri
  • Sigourney Weaver as Kiri
  • Stephen Lang as Colonel Miles Quaritch
  • Kate Winslet as Ronal
  • Cliff Curtis as Tonowari
  • Giovanni Ribisi as Parker Selfridge
  • Edie Falco as General Frances Ardmore
  • Brendan Cowell as Captain Mick Scoresby
  • Jemaine Clement as Dr. Ian Garvin
  • CCH Pounder as Mo'at


Critic Reviews​



-David Rooney, The Hollywood Reporter
Does it matter if “The Way of Water” doesn’t elicit the same response when I watch it at home? Not really — I know that it won’t. Does it matter that Cameron is continuing to “save” the movies by rendering them almost unrecognizable from the rest of the medium? His latest sequel would suggest that even the most alien bodies can serve as proper vessels for the spirits we hold sacred. For now, the only thing that matters is that after 13 years of being a punchline, “going back to Pandora” just became the best deal on Earth for the price of a movie ticket.
Click to expand...
-David Ehrlich, IndieWire: A-
Evoking that movie (Titanic) is a tactical mistake, because it reminds you that “Titanic” was a jaw-dropping spectacle with characters who touched us to the core. I’m sorry, but as I watched “The Way of Water” the only part of me that was moved was my eyeballs.
Click to expand...
-Owen Gleiberman, Variety
By the time it crests, whatever the film’s many other flaws may be, we are invested, and we are ultimately rewarded with a truly spectacular, awe-inspiring finale. All’s well that ends well, I guess. Even if all was a pretty mixed bag beforehand.
Click to expand...
-William Bibbiani, The Wrap
Avatar: The Way of Water is a thoughtful, sumptuous return to Pandora, one which fleshes out both the mythology established in the first film and the Sully family’s place therein. It may not be the best sequel James Cameron has ever made (which is a very high bar), but it’s easily the clearest improvement on the film that preceded it. The oceans of Pandora see lightning striking in the same place twice, expanding the visual language the franchise has to work with in beautiful fashion. The simple story may leave you crying “cliché,” but as a vehicle for transporting you to another world, it’s good enough to do the job. This is nothing short of a good old-fashioned Cameron blockbuster, full of filmmaking spectacle and heart, and an easy recommendation for anyone looking to escape to another world for a three-hour adventure.
Click to expand...
-Tom Jorgensen, IGN: 8.0 "great"
James Cameron has surfaced with a cosmic marine epic that only he could make: eccentric, soulful, joyous, dark and very, very blue. Yes, he’s still leagues ahead of the pack.
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-Nick De Semlyen, Empire: 5/5
The whole package here is so ambitious, yet intimate and gently tempered in its quieter moments, that it feels heartening to be reminded of what a big-budget Hollywood movie can be when it refuses to get crushed under pointless piles of rubble and noise. Confessionally, this critic wishes that Cameron had room in his schedule to put out more than one film in over a decade and original movies in addition to the ones that belong to this big beautiful franchise. Still, it’s significant to have him back with a picture that feels like a theatrical event to be celebrated, nowadays a retro idea occasionally reminded by the likes of Nope and Top Gun: Maverick. These are Cameron’s own waters, and it’s significant to see him effortlessly swim in them again.
Click to expand...
-Tomris Laffly, The A.V. Club: A
Maintaining a sense of stakes will be necessary for the series going forward, especially if it plans on rolling out new entries at a quicker pace. But for The Way of Water, the decadence is more than enough—for cinemas that have been starved of authentic spectacle, finally, here’s a gorgeous three-course meal of it.
Click to expand...
-David Sims, The Atlantic
While Cameron is a master of franchise sequels, “Way of Water” doesn’t measure up to his classics, “Aliens” and “Terminator 2: Judgment Day.” But thanks to new personalities and vivid wildlife, on the whole, this latest trip does prove, perhaps surprisingly to some after such a long period between movies, that there’s still some gas in the “Avatar” tank after all.
Click to expand...
-Brian Truitt, USA Today: 3/4
And what do we find aside from the high-tech visual superstructure? The floatingly bland plot is like a children’s story without the humour; a YA story without the emotional wound; an action thriller without the hard edge of real excitement.
Click to expand...
-Peter Bradshaw, The Guardian: 2/5
Will it end up making $2 billion, as Cameron claims it must in order to inch into profit? With a Chinese release date secured, it may, though I suspect British audiences will find their patience tested. For all its world-building sprawl, The Way of Water is a horizon-narrowing experience – the sad sight of a great filmmaker reversing up a creative cul-de-sac.
Click to expand...
-Robbie Collin, The Telegraph: 1/5
The movie's overt themes of familial love and loss, its impassioned indictments of military colonialism and climate destruction, are like a meaty hand grabbing your collar; it works because they work it.
Click to expand...
-Leah Greenblatt, Entertainment Weekly: A-
For all the genuine thrills provided by its pioneering pageantry, Way of Water ultimately leaves you with a soul-nagging query: What price entertainment?
Click to expand...
-Keith Uhlich, Slant Magazine: 3/4
If I had two separate categories to judge James Cameron’s motion-capture epic “Avatar: The Way of Water,” I’d give it four stars for Visuals and two and a half for Story, and I’m in charge of the math here so I’m awarding three and a half stars to “TWAW” for some of the most dazzling, vibrant and gorgeous images I’ve ever seen on the big screen.
Click to expand...
-Richard Roeper, Chicago Sun Times: 3.5/4

There is, really, no one else who does it like Cameron anymore, someone who so (perhaps recklessly) advances filmmaking technology to make manifest the spectacle in his head while staying ever-attentive of antiquated ideals like sentiment and idiosyncrasy. Watching The Way of Water, one rolls their eyes only to realize they’re welling with tears. One stretches and shifts in their seat before accepting, with a resigned and happy plop, that they could watch yet another hour of Cameron’s preservationist epic. Lucky for us—lucky even for the culture, maybe—that at least a few more of those are on their way.
Click to expand...
-Richard Lawson, Vanity Fair

His meticulous craftsmanship shows in every amazing sequence like that final battle at sea. If the story occasionally seems a bit all over the place, well, there are worse things in the world than a filmmaker throwing every last morsel of creativity into his work. You can’t say The Way of Water doesn’t give you your money’s worth, especially in the visual department. This thing’s got enough eye candy to give you ocular diabetes.
Click to expand...
-Matt Singer, ScreenCrush: 7/10

Avatar: The Way of Water is both more extravagant and dorkier than Avatar, which was pretty dorky to begin with.
Click to expand...
-Stephanie Zacharek, TIME

Cameron leans all the way into manic mayhem, smash-cutting from one outrageous image to the next. The final act of this movie shows off a freeing attitude he’s never fully embraced before.
Click to expand...
-Jordan Hoffman, Polygon
 
bitbydeath

bitbydeath

Member
Some of these reviews go straight for the jugular.

James Cameron always pushes the envelope. This time, he has sealed himself inside. Frankly, if the "Avatar" films continue in this vein, Cameron’s intent to go out making as many as three more of them represents a truly depressing directorial epitaph.
Click to expand...
 
Stuart360

Stuart360

Member
Up to 85 from 107 reviews. It should stay above 80 now, and should stay above the orig films 82 RT score.

What i do like about the reviews so far is just how many of them say its better than the first film, even some of the negative ones lol.
 
mcjmetroid

mcjmetroid

Member
This is what I thought. A lot of the respectable top reviewers are giving it top marks and a few of the smaller are trying to get their digs in because they're much more sophisticated for this dumb movie. It's been 13 years of listening to everyone saying it's the same plot as 4 other movies that never got criticised for having the same plot as the other 3.

Please.

If you like Cameron movies I'd almost guarantee you're gonna love this. Roll on Friday!
 
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Lord Panda

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
bitbydeath said:
Some of these reviews go straight for the jugular.
Click to expand...

The statement about the Avatar movies likely being his directorial epitaph resonates with me.

I always wanted Cameron to do a proper sequel to Aliens and Terminator 2. Heck True Lies could have been a fun franchise too. But alas, it was not to be.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Avatar 2 is finally here – and it’s like being waterboarded with turquoise cement

James Cameron’s decade-in-the-making The Way of Water has no plot, no stakes and atrocious dialogue. What happened to this great director?
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

What an edgy disrespectful prick. Even Black Adam isn't a 1/5 movie (it's a 2 or 2.5).
 
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J

jason10mm

Gold Member
Lord Panda said:
The statement about the Avatar movies likely being his directorial epitaph resonates with me.

I always wanted Cameron to do a proper sequel to Aliens and Terminator 2. Heck True Lies could have been a fun franchise too. But alas, it was not to be.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Avatar 2 is finally here – and it’s like being waterboarded with turquoise cement

James Cameron’s decade-in-the-making The Way of Water has no plot, no stakes and atrocious dialogue. What happened to this great director?
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

What an edgy disrespectful prick. Even Black Adam isn't a 1/5 movie (it's a 2 or 2.5).
Click to expand...
No kidding, the only way this film got a real 1/5 is if the reviewer walked into an Asylum "Avatiar: Paths of Moisture" clone film by mistake :p
 
SirKicksalot

SirKicksalot

Member
it’s hard to recall a film that felt less tethered to the real world. Do you know what would be more evocative of the wonders of nature than a lot of $400 million computer-generated fish? Actual fish.
Click to expand...

The Telegraph's review is blatantly written for posterity. This is one of the negative reviews that will be quoted on Wikipedia for future generations.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Gold Member
Lord Panda said:
The statement about the Avatar movies likely being his directorial epitaph resonates with me.

I always wanted Cameron to do a proper sequel to Aliens and Terminator 2. Heck True Lies could have been a fun franchise too. But alas, it was not to be.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Avatar 2 is finally here – and it’s like being waterboarded with turquoise cement

James Cameron’s decade-in-the-making The Way of Water has no plot, no stakes and atrocious dialogue. What happened to this great director?
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

What an edgy disrespectful prick. Even Black Adam isn't a 1/5 movie (it's a 2 or 2.5).
Click to expand...

That guy wants to be Armond White so bad.
 
Punished Miku

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Can't wait. Still haven't been able to lock in a date just yet with the girlfriend. Probably going next week.
 
Westcliff

Westcliff

Neo Member
Saw the movie yesterday at the midnight premiere. Here is my opinion:

Avatar: The Way of Water is not only reminiscent of a video game in terms of visuals, but the film also has a completely convoluted and confusing story. At many points, the film reminded me of the Final Fantasy games, whose stories are often confusing and often forgettable, but which impress with breathtaking vistas and images, stirring emotional moments and epic action scenes. Avatar 2 offers the same.

James Cameron has tried to weave too many ideas and characters into the film. While the first part told a very simple and archaic story, for which it was heavily criticized, here they seem to have tried to make the plot more complex and multi-layered but didn't really succeed. Maybe it's also because too many screenwriters worked on the story besides Cameron, and everyone wanted to bring their own ideas into the film.

Ultimately, there are a lot of ideas thrown into the film that aren't really explored or thought through. There are many elements that are brought up and then never mentioned or are relevant again. Also, there are just too many characters that seem interesting but don't really have room to develop in the story and remain in the background without us really getting to know them (perhaps we'll have to wait for the sequels). The dramaturgy is often very convoluted, for example, the main antagonist disappears from the screen for almost an hour while the story takes on a completely different pace and feel, only to suddenly drops back into the story at the beginning of the third act. This especially reminded me of the feeling I had with games like Final Fantasy X or Final Fantasy XV (the comparability with FF X is also given by the water theme and spiritual aspects). Also, the plot invents way too many elements that just don't fit with what we saw in the first part, just to bring certain characters back into the story or because James Cameron liked to work with certain actors. Also, I find that certain aspects of the story don't fit with the spirituality of the Navi as we got to know them in the first part.

But still, the film works on an emotional level. The relationship of Jake's family, the spiritual connection to the animals and the planet, but especially the surprising emotionality of the antagonist worked for me. The design of Pandoras oceans and creatures is fantastic and still unique, as it was in the first part, and the visual effects are indescribably beautiful. And the last hour was just insane, with about an hour of excellent action in typical James Cameron style. Overall, I thought Avatar: Way of the Water was a good movie. Mainly because of the visuals, the little emotional moments and the crazy action. So basically, not that much different than the first part. However, part 1 was much more focused and thought out in my opinion. The dramaturgy was much more structured, and the characters were stronger.

My Rating: 7.5/10
 
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Lunarorbit

Lunarorbit

Member
I want this movie to bomb. I'm so sick of hearing about it.

Then why did you come into this thread... Blah blah blah

Why did the humans have to come back? Just seems lazy. Stephan Lang has 3 giant arrows in him... But he's back cause they switched his consciousness or whatever I'm guessing.

I won't shit up the avatar threads with negativity but besides technical prowess I don't get it
 
J

jason10mm

Gold Member
Westcliff said:
Saw the movie yesterday at the midnight premiere. Here is my opinion:

My Rating: 7.5/10
Click to expand...
Without spoilers, is there a clear indication of the direction the series is going? I feel that, given the time between A1 and A2, there is probably a quasi-reboot aspect to A2 since they are basically a generation apart that hopefully won't be necessary for more rapidly paced sequels. But I'm curious if there are hints at things beyond the human/Pandorian struggle.

I see it Saturday, sooooooo pumped!

Also, if you HAD to take a pee break, when is the best time? Asking for my little friend....
 
SJRB

SJRB

Gold Member
First Avatar was fucking dogshit as well, people went to see it for the novelty of 3D and the visual spectacle that Cameron brought to the screen. It was basically a two-hour themepark ride.

But now, so many years later, 3D is all but dead and people get visual spectacles on the big screen every two months. These reviews and the need for this movie to make 2 billion at the box office paint a dire picture.

Cameron, please stop this madness. Nobody wants another three Avatar movies. Please, come back to us. There's still time!
 
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Spaceman292

Spaceman292

Banned
Westcliff said:
Saw the movie yesterday at the midnight premiere. Here is my opinion:

Avatar: The Way of Water is not only reminiscent of a video game in terms of visuals, but the film also has a completely convoluted and confusing story. At many points, the film reminded me of the Final Fantasy games, whose stories are often confusing and often forgettable, but which impress with breathtaking vistas and images, stirring emotional moments and epic action scenes. Avatar 2 offers the same.

James Cameron has tried to weave too many ideas and characters into the film. While the first part told a very simple and archaic story, for which it was heavily criticized, here they seem to have tried to make the plot more complex and multi-layered but didn't really succeed. Maybe it's also because too many screenwriters worked on the story besides Cameron, and everyone wanted to bring their own ideas into the film.

Ultimately, there are a lot of ideas thrown into the film that aren't really explored or thought through. There are many elements that are brought up and then never mentioned or are relevant again. Also, there are just too many characters that seem interesting but don't really have room to develop in the story and remain in the background without us really getting to know them (perhaps we'll have to wait for the sequels). The dramaturgy is often very convoluted, for example, the main antagonist disappears from the screen for almost an hour while the story takes on a completely different pace and feel, only to suddenly drops back into the story at the beginning of the third act. This especially reminded me of the feeling I had with games like Final Fantasy X or Final Fantasy XV (the comparability with FF X is also given by the water theme and spiritual aspects). Also, the plot invents way too many elements that just don't fit with what we saw in the first part, just to bring certain characters back into the story or because James Cameron liked to work with certain actors. Also, I find that certain aspects of the story don't fit with the spirituality of the Navi as we got to know them in the first part.

But still, the film works on an emotional level. The relationship of Jake's family, the spiritual connection to the animals and the planet, but especially the surprising emotionality of the antagonist worked for me. The design of Pandoras oceans and creatures is fantastic and still unique, as it was in the first part, and the visual effects are indescribably beautiful. And the last hour was just insane, with about an hour of excellent action in typical James Cameron style. Overall, I thought Avatar: Way of the Water was a good movie. Mainly because of the visuals, the little emotional moments and the crazy action. So basically, not that much different than the first part. However, part 1 was much more focused and thought out in my opinion. The dramaturgy was much more structured, and the characters were stronger.

My Rating: 7.5/10
Click to expand...
So basically if you're the kind of person who unironically uses words like 'dramaturgy' then you probably won't like the movie much.
 
Westcliff

Westcliff

Neo Member
jason10mm said:
Without spoilers, is there a clear indication of the direction the series is going? I feel that, given the time between A1 and A2, there is probably a quasi-reboot aspect to A2 since they are basically a generation apart that hopefully won't be necessary for more rapidly paced sequels. But I'm curious if there are hints at things beyond the human/Pandorian struggle.

I see it Saturday, sooooooo pumped!

Also, if you HAD to take a pee break, when is the best time? Asking for my little friend....
Click to expand...

Not really, apart from returning characters and a "mystery" that will surely play a bigger role, the sequels can go in any direction imaginable.

And for a pee break, I'd say sometime in the first hour. The moment the plot moves to the sea, you don't want to miss anything!
 
AJUMP23

AJUMP23

Parody of actual AJUMP23
Maybe it is my age, but the first movie is not great. This one does not look that good. I will go see it just for the spectacle, but the story of the first was uninteresting. I think it may be the same for this one as well. A spectacle but shallow.
 
A

ADiTAR

ידע זה כוח
sinnergy said:
Back the the future 2 is amazing .. so there is that.
Click to expand...
I rewatched it recently right after the first, I couldn't continue. It's waaaay too campy and silly, to a point where it doesn't feel real. Everyone is overacting their asses off. The first one was amazing.
 
Spyxos

Spyxos

Member
I saw it today in Imax 3d and HFR. Bobastic cgi also finally a camera where you can follow when something happens in battle. Under water it looks great. The transitions between 30 fps and HFR are unfortunately not great. They happen way too often after which the image stutters briefly for the eye. When HFR is back on, it feels like it's playing at double speed for few seconds.

Story is nothing new and there are a lot of new characters this time, but it still takes you on a ride. Sigorney Weaver as a child was strange and often a bit annoying. Even though I had a lot of fun with the movie, it felt a lot longer than 3 hours. Avatar 1 I have seen multiple times in the cinema with part 2 I think it will not happen.
 
Dev1lXYZ

Dev1lXYZ

Member
ADiTAR said:
I rewatched it recently right after the first, I couldn't continue. It's waaaay too campy and silly, to a point where it doesn't feel real. Everyone is overacting their asses off. The first one was amazing.
Click to expand...
I was a young teen when BTTF 2 and 3 came out. I even had the crazy sunglasses from Pizza Hut promoting the film.

The first movie was awesome, but the second was very disappointing at the time and 3 felt tacked on.

Over the years, I have grown to appreciate the sequels. BTTF 2 is very dark, almost like Empire Strikes Back. There is a deleted scene that should have been left in where old Biff phases out of existance.

Part 3 is a great throwback to the wild west movies and shows that came before. The story is a little weak and as a kid we thought part 4 would have hit.....but it never did. Of course we now know about Michael J.Fox and his health issues. He wouldn't have been able to do Marty justice in a sequel.
 
Spyxos

Spyxos

Member
Rat Rage said:
Avatar 2 was spectacular, beautiful and emotional. I enjoyed it a lot. HFR wasn't as bad as The Hobbit.
Click to expand...
Did you adapt quickly? In the beginning I saw every transition to hfr and away. Towards the end not so extreme but still noticed often. Hobbit I have only seen in 3d without hfr.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Gold Member
Dev1lXYZ said:
Part 3 is a great throwback to the wild west movies and shows that came before. The story is a little weak and as a kid we thought part 4 would have hit.....but it never did. Of course we now know about Michael J.Fox and his health issues. He wouldn't have been able to do Marty justice in a sequel.
Click to expand...

There was never going to be a 4. That's why they put THE END on the third movie, the closest to a 4th is the animated series. It's actually in Bob Gale's and Zemeckis' contracts that no one can make a sequel or reboot to the movies as long as one of them are still alive.
 
Rat Rage

Rat Rage

Member
Spyxos said:
Did you adapt quickly? In the beginning I saw every transition to hfr and away. Towards the end not so extreme but still noticed often. Hobbit I have only seen in 3d without hfr.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I didn't even plan to watch it in HFR 3D, because I really dislike HFR and am not fond of 3D either... But my friends dragged me to see it, because they said "dude, it's Avatar, you gotta see it in 3D".
Yes, I've seen the transitions between HFR, but they were pretty brief and didn't bother me. What surprised me the most was that I didn't hate the HFR. After a while I almost forgot about it, because of the epic on-screen spectacle.
I don't regret having seen it HFR 3D now. The CGI was mindblowing. I also thought the story had a powerful message.
I definitely plan on watching it again sometime in the future, but this time in just plain 2D without HFR, in order to see how it compares (and to come to my personal final verdict on the best way to watch the movie).
All in all, it was a fucking great experience. Probably the best movie this year right after Top Gun 2.
 
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T

Trunim

Member
I think I made a mistake not watching it in 3D. The visuals weren't keeping me interested while the story was your run-of-the-mill family action drama.
 
kruis

kruis

Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
I think the underwater sections of the movie looked extraordinary because of HFR. There were scenes in the beginning of the movie with the Na'vi flying those dragonlike creatures that looked too much like a video game, but the action scenes in the last hour looked absolutely great. 3D plus HDFR made those underwater scenes breathtakingly beautiful.

I was glad I saw the HFR version and I certainly didn't feel that way with The Hobbit movies.
 
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