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[cthoaa]

Talk about all things boxing.

Upcoming cards, past fights and superfights, the all-time greats, your all-time favorites, P4P (yours or Ring's), FOTY, the promotions and their rankings, the titles (Ring's vs. ABC), the state of the sport, domestic and abroad... anything.

 

[DarienA]

Jermain Taylor needs to start fighting people in his own weight class, and who might present him an actual challenge. Cory Spinks? Come on now...

 

[cthoaa]

Good news for HBO Sports:

De La Hoya-Mayweather becomes richest fight in boxing history

Bad news:

HBO Chief Arrested Hours After De La Hoya-Mayweather

 

[Masta_Killah]

Talk about all things boxing.

Upcoming cards, past fights and superfights, the all-time greats, your all-time favorites, P4P (yours or Ring's), FOTY, the promotions and their rankings, the titles (Ring's vs. ABC), the state of the sport, domestic and abroad... anything.

They need to do something about fighters who only fight by the point system. That Mayweahter/De la Hoya fight was a disgrace. I mean, after talking soo much crap about how it was going to be a massacre, all Mayweather did was run and hide. At least the light and welterweight fights are still fun to watch.

 

[Zep]

Like DarienA said, we need more jermain taylor fighting bigger bouts...Winky bores me to death and now Spinks?! zZZZZZZZZ....

Will the Taylor fight be Showtime, HBO or PPV?

 

[SSGMUN10000]

Alright guys tell me you thought on some of the upcoming fights

Taylor-Spinks

Cotto-Judah

Winky-Hopkins

Pavlik-Miranda

Marquez-Vasquez 2

 

[Flo_Evans]

They need to do something about fighters who only fight by the point system. That Mayweahter/De la Hoya fight was a disgrace. I mean, after talking soo much crap about how it was going to be a massacre, all Mayweather did was run and hide. At least the light and welterweight fights are still fun to watch.

All he did was run and hide? how did he score so many punches then?

 

[cthoaa]

Marquez-Vasquez 2

Oh, wow. Is this made already? I didn't know...

The last fight was so good while it lasted and Rafael is my favorite of the Marquez brothers.

 

[Masta_Killah]

All he did was run and hide? how did he score so many punches then?

He used his speed advantage. I'm not saying Mayweather sucks or anything. I actually thought he was the better fighter. But if he's so damn good, why did he avoid going head on against Oscar, especially in the later rounds where Oscar clearly was tired? I mean, with his quickness, stamina and decent punching strength, he could have bested Oscar easily. But he didn't. He just ran around, avoided his punches, and used his speed to land a few punches. Then when Oscar tried to push the fight, Mayweather just clinched his way out of the situation.

 

[Flo_Evans]

He used his speed advantage. I'm not saying Mayweather sucks or anything. I actually thought he was the better fighter. But if he's so damn good, why did he avoid going head on against Oscar, especially in the later rounds where Oscar clearly was tired? I mean, with his quickness, stamina and decent punching strength, he could have bested Oscar easily. But he didn't. He just ran around, avoided his punches, and used his speed to land a few punches. Then when Oscar tried to push the fight, Mayweather just clinched his way out of the situation.

Because he knew that de la hoya has a power advantage. It is called boxing after all, not run to the middle of the ring and slug it out till someone falls over. You do realize this is the heaviest that mayweather has fought at right?

 

[rollingstart]

agree or disagree? Prince Naseem is (was) one of the most BAMF boxers.

 

[Masta_Killah]

Because he knew that de la hoya has a power advantage. It is called boxing after all, not run to the middle of the ring and slug it out till someone falls over. You do realize this is the heaviest that mayweather has fought at right?

Yeah, I know. Still though, he could have easily out-boxed Oscar in the later rounds, even with the power disadvantage. I did pay 60+ dollars to see a fight and damnit. I want to see some blood flowing. They didn't even look bruised after the fight.

 

[DarienA]

Like DarienA said, we need more jermain taylor fighting bigger bouts...Winky bores me to death and now Spinks?! zZZZZZZZZ....

Will the Taylor fight be Showtime, HBO or PPV?

HBO thank goodness. I wouldn't pay for that. I'm debating whether or not I'm going to pay for Hopkins/Wright.

MK that's not Mayweather's style, I'm curious did you bitch this much when watching Hopkins defends his belt on the bike for so many years?

EDIT: Andre Berto welterweight. Remember that name fellas.

 

[SSGMUN10000]

agree or disagree? Prince Naseem is (was) one of the most BAMF boxers.

I would say he was entertaining. After getting schooled by Barrera he never came back. He had explosive power..so much wasted potential.

 

[karasu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6z2UE0hdT8

Strangest fighting style ever

 

[El Papa]

Yeah, I know. Still though, he could have easily out-boxed Oscar in the later rounds, even with the power disadvantage. I did pay 60+ dollars to see a fight and damnit. I want to see some blood flowing. They didn't even look bruised after the fight.

You didn't see the post fight stuff? Mayweather had swelling on BOTH his eyes, right eye was very noticeable. Oscar had a welt on his shoulder and his face was flushed, but had no noticeable damage. Funny, since everyone says Mayweather landed so many powerful punches.

 

[karasu]

Mayweather landed love taps, that's why.

 

[darscot]

The Mayweather De La Hoya fight was a snooze fest. I can't believe it is so hyped. Neither fighter did much of anything. Fights like this make me wish boxing would go back to 15 rounds.

 

[cthoaa]

agree or disagree? Prince Naseem is (was) one of the most BAMF boxers.

The later Hamed fights were the first I saw of him (Kelly, Sanchez, etc.). He seemed pretty exciting w/ lots of power, but he got knocked down quite a bit and looked one-dimensional. I then saw some of his earlier fights and he was like a different person -- so dynamic and fluid within his own style and still with the KO power. That fighter was deserving of the hype he got. Had he not devolved so much towards the end, the Barrera fight would have been better for him. Don't think he would have won, though.

It's bad his career ended as it did (couldn't KO his opponent after MAB, then even worse, the out-of-ring stuff.) He was good for boxing and did a lot to elevate the lower weights. They miss him and his showmanship IMO.

 

[cthoaa]

ESPN.com just concluded their week-long feature, "The 50 Greatest Boxers of All Time". (Based on in-ring performance, achievements, dominance, and mainstream appeal.) They were:

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Joe Louis
5. Willie Pep
6. Roberto Duran
7. Benny Leonard
8. Jack Johnson
9. Jack Dempsey
10. Sam Langford
11. Joe Gans
12. Sugar Ray Leonard
13. Harry Greb
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Jimmy Wilde
16. Gene Tunney
17. Mickey Walker
18. Archie Moore
19. Stanley Ketchel
20. George Foreman
21. Tony Canzoneri
22. Barney Ross
23. Jimmy McLarnin
24. Julio Cesar Chavez
25. Marcel Cerdan
26. Joe Frazier
27. Ezzard Charles
28. Jake LaMotta
29. Sandy Saddler
30. Terry McGovern
31. Billy Conn
32. Jose Napoles
33. Ruben Olivares
34. Emile Griffith
35. Marvin Hagler
36. Eder Jofre
37. Thomas Hearns
38. Larry Holmes
39. Oscar De La Hoya
40. Evander Holyfield
41. Ted "Kid" Lewis
42. Alexis Arguello
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Pernell Whitaker
45. Carlos Monzon
46. Roy Jones Jr.
47. Bernard Hopkins
48. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
49. Erik Morales
50. Mike Tyson

 

[karasu]

Rocky Marciano is way too low.

 

[SSGMUN10000]

Wow Oscar at 39 better that RJJ, Mayweather. I guess they consider him the best of his generation. I agree that Marciano is a little low on that list.

 

[lilraylewis]

Rocky Marciano is way too low.

Why, pray tell? I've never understood the affinity people have for Marciano. He was a good fighter, but I think he's situated pretty well at fourteen.

As for the rest of the list, I think a little revision at the top is in order.

1. Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Johnson
4. Sugar Ray

P.S. Anybody know how to get these pictures out of the flash display? Any one of them would make an awful nice background for my desktop. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/flash/zoomGallery?section=gen&photoGalleryId=2821169

 

[karasu]

He took every challenge he could have taken and he still managed to go out undefeated. The only heavyweight champ to do so I believe. I also disagree with ranking Ali higher than Joe Louis. and your list infuriates me more. :lol

 

[lilraylewis]

He took every challenge he could have taken and he still managed to go out undefeated. The only heavyweight champ to do so I believe. I also disagree with ranking Ali higher than Joe Louis. and your list infuriates me more. :lol

Ha ha, sorry to be so inflamitory. But back to Marciano. He did go undefeated, but he did so against less than stellar competition. Who did he really beat? Old Archie Moore? Old Joe Walcott? Old Ezzard Charles? Really old Joe Louis? To my mind, Ali's five defeats (three of which, by the way, coming at the eve of his career) during the "golden age" of boxing is the more impressive feat.

 

[lilraylewis]

I just remembered this video, which illustrates my point. You'll still enjoy it, I think, despite the fact that it runs down Marciano. It has a lot of Ali bashing and Joe Louis worshiping: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rM7CMabngx4


Also, I thought the rest of you boys might enjoy this if you haven't seen it already. Most brutal round in mainstream boxing history, according to some. Jack Dempsey versus Jess Willard.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VawHgrLvbD4

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

Sorry Lennox :lol At least they got that right wit the top 50 of all time.

I'll always disagree. Boxing purists always have Ali in the top 3 or so, mostly with Sugar Ray Robinson first. If you look at the body of work, he probably is - but he didn't have 3 plus years taken out of his career like Ali. And its pretty much impossible to compare fighters of the 40's and 50's with others down the line. I mean how many of the guys making these lists have SEEN the fights from then. I can't imagine there's much video.

This is pretty crazy though:

In 1947, Robinson defended his title for the first time by knocking out Jimmy Doyle in the eighth round. Before that fight, Robinson had a dream that he was going to accidentally kill Doyle in the ring. As a result, he decided to pull out of the fight. However, a priest and a minister convinced him to go ahead with the bout. His foe, however, died from the injuries sustained in the fight. Robinson said that the impact of Doyle's death was "very trying."

 

[mr jones]

I've always considered the Morales / Barrera fights to be some of the most intense boxing I've ever seen, but I'll hold judgement until I see that video you posted, Lilray.

And Mayweather is undefeated. His record is flawless. Why is he not higher on the list?

 

[DarienA]

I've always considered the Morales / Barrera fights to be some of the most intense boxing I've ever seen, but I'll hold judgement until I see that video you posted, Lilray.

And Mayweather is undefeated. His record is flawless. Why is he not higher on the list?

If I had to guess I'd say partly because he's fought few "great" fighters in their prime, and at least subconsciously partly because he doesn't appeal to fans.

 

[Hollywood_mIRC]

I just remembered this video, which illustrates my point. You'll still enjoy it, I think, despite the fact that it runs down Marciano. It has a lot of Ali bashing and Joe Louis worshiping: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rM7CMabngx4


Also, I thought the rest of you boys might enjoy this if you haven't seen it already. Most brutal round in mainstream boxing history, according to some. Jack Dempsey versus Jess Willard.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VawHgrLvbD4

I got this off the Youtube comments:

i got a book with this fight in it and it says 'willard's cheek bone was broken in 13 places, he had a broken nose and 8 avulsed teeth... Dempsey dropped his hand by his hand and out came an iron object which resembled a railroad spike.' apparently dempsey was bet on by the mafia to win and he had to win so he cheated.

 

[SSGMUN10000]

That Dempsey vs. Willard video was crazy. He at least went down 5 times and kept getting up. Nowadays if your down 2-3 times thats it fights over.

 

[lilraylewis]

I got this off the Youtube comments:

i got a book with this fight in it and it says 'willard's cheek bone was broken in 13 places, he had a broken nose and 8 avulsed teeth... Dempsey dropped his hand by his hand and out came an iron object which resembled a railroad spike.' apparently dempsey was bet on by the mafia to win and he had to win so he cheated.

That "Dempsey fought with horseshoes in his gloves" story is, so far as I know, tenuous. I like to think he just beat the shit out of that oaf, fair and square.

 

[cthoaa]

Edison “Pantera” Miranda was in his usual form Thursday at the final press conference before his HBO-televised bout with Kelly Pavlik at the FedEx Forum, letting both Pavlik and the night’s headliner, Jermain Taylor, know that he’s got both of them in his sights.

“Pavlik’s a great fighter but I’m in a different league,” said Miranda (28-1, 24 KOs) of his opponent on Saturday. “I’m a Major League player and he’s in the Minor Leagues. People watch baseball for the home runs and boxing for knockouts. On Saturday night I’m going to give people what they want to see, a KNOCKOUT!”. In the midst of the BBQ festivities in Memphis this week, Pantera promised that he was going to have his very own BBQ. “I will Bar-B-Que Kelly Pavlik!.”

The unbeaten Pavlik, a heavy hitter in his own right at 30-0 with 27 KOs, said he’s willing to oblige Miranda in standing toe to toe and going to war.

“On Saturday I am going to break the record for the most punches thrown in a round and give the world a great fight to watch,” said “The Ghost”.

As for Taylor, who faces 154-pound titlist Cory Spinks in a “middleweight” championship bout, Miranda did not hold back.

“Taylor, I will fight you for the same amount of money that I’m getting paid to fight Pavlik just to show the world that you’re not a real champion,” said Miranda. “I’m the real champ. I fight real middleweights, not blown up welterweights.”

And that was just the beginning…

“Cory Spinks you’re a great Champion, but Taylor, you’re supposed to be a tiger,” continued Miranda. “How do they put a tiger against a cat? If you’re a real tiger, why don’t they put you face to face with the panther?”

Taylor took Miranda’s words in stride, saying that he ‘isn’t going to pound the podium and yell like Miranda’. Instead, he was going to be a classy champion. However, it was very clear that Miranda’s tough talk got under Taylor’s skin. Just a few minutes into his speech, Taylor began pounding the podium and screaming (even harder and louder than Miranda), which is very unlike the usually calm Taylor. It was apparent that Taylor was more concerned about Miranda rather than Spinks. He spent most of his time addressing Miranda’s statements and did not even make one mention of Cory Spinks, who he will be fighting on Saturday night.

Awesome. Rumors have Taylor moving up to SMW and going to Wales to fight Calzaghe, which would be good, but him against Miranda (provided both win tomorrow) would be more satisfying and have a more entertaining build.

 

[DarienA]

Bah Taylor hasn't done anything to earn my respect as champ... and personally I think Miranda would f'n murderize him.

I'd love to see that fight, hell I love watching Miranda fight period...

 

[cthoaa]

Really great stuff last night in Pavlik-Miranda; I think it's my favorite fight so far this year. Pavlik was just pressing throughout and made Miranda wilt. It probably should have been stopped after knockdown 2 of round six; if not then, before the start of the next round. And in the seventh, Miranda shouldn't have had to take those last few shots at the end. I've never had a problem w/ Smoger as an official and I couldn't follow Lampley's pre-fight assessment of him, but this fight was really eye-opening for me.

Taylor-Spinks OTOH was just frustrating. I was really discouraged afterwards -- don't know what I was expecting. The only real entertainment I got out of it was the bits of blistering commentary by Merchant and Emmanuel Steward's cornering. :lol

 

[DJ Sl4m]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6z2UE0hdT8

Strangest fighting style ever

LMFAO!!

Great find man

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I had never seen Miranda fight but after hearing a lot of hype surrounding him i have to ask "WTF"? Was he just really off last night? He looked like less than an amateur, doing nothing but throwing wild haymakers and bombs (most of which had no power behind them). I actually felt bad for the guy because he took some HARD shots at the end of that fight that he didn't really need to take. The guy can take a punch, but thats not always a good thing, ask Meldrick Taylor.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Miranda vs. Pavlik lived up to expectations. Great fight. I'm glad to see Miranda finally exposed. Also, Merchant can go to hell regarding his rant on Smoger. He deducted a point from Miranda immediately after he spit out his mouth piece- that was the correct move. There is no argument. Yes, it allowed Miranda extra time, but he lost a point.

 

[cthoaa]

I had never seen Miranda fight but after hearing a lot of hype surrounding him i have to ask "WTF"? Was he just really off last night? He looked like less than an amateur, doing nothing but throwing wild haymakers and bombs (most of which had no power behind them). I actually felt bad for the guy because he took some HARD shots at the end of that fight that he didn't really need to take. The guy can take a punch, but thats not always a good thing, ask Meldrick Taylor.

Miranda's gotten better of late, esp. his jab, but his technique does falter. Even then, he'll throw wide, loopy shots w/ awkward and shaky form. He gets away with it because of his power and aggressiveness and by staying pretty active.

Here, he just got flooded. He was getting pushed back and had to mount offense off his rear foot or off the ropes so he couldn't getting anything on them. And the few shots where he could get set, Pavlik took well. Miranda must have gotten even more discouraged when his power punches that landed flush didn't amount to something more significant.

Also, Merchant can go to hell regarding his rant on Smoger. He deducted a point from Miranda immediately after he spit out his mouth piece- that was the correct move. There is no argument. Yes, it allowed Miranda extra time, but he lost a point.

After watching a replay of the end, he did the right thing, of course, getting the mouthpiece back in and also taking a point. Better still, he waited till in between rounds to tell the judges instead of taking the time to signal the one-point deduction to all three. However, as all this came following a knockdown, he should have picked up the mouthpiece, walked to the corner and made Miranda walk on his own to get it. (The ref in the Freitas-Corrales fights used similar procedure.) This rather than leading him there by the hand. Had he done so, he might have observed that Miranda needed a bunch of assistance from him + the ropes.

Also, I blame Freitas for all these mouthpiece tactics. He did it against Barrios, then three times against Corrales. Corrales then used it to great effect in Castillo I, and in his last fight. Now it's a "trick" that everyone's got. I'm sure it's been done before Freitas' time and maybe an opponent even exposed him to it, but I''ll blame him anyways.

 

[UltimaKilo]

Jermain Taylor needs to start fighting people in his own weight class, and who might present him an actual challenge. Cory Spinks? Come on now...

Umm I saw Jermain Taylor at the gym the other day... He was fighting some nobody and it was a pretty even match... He should quit!

 

[cthoaa]

The Ring updated their rankings for the week, reflecting the results of last weekend's middleweight matchups.

Kelly Pavlik jumped six spots in their middleweight rankings from #9 to #3. Edison Miranda fell from #3 to #4. Jermian Taylor remained Ring's middleweight champion. Cory Spinks' ranking as the #1 jr. middleweight was unchanged.

Taylor fell four spots from #6 to #10 on the pound-for-pound chart with P4Pers #7 through #10 all moving up.

The Ring's Middleweight Ratings for period ending May 21

C. Jermain Taylor USA 27-0-1
1. Ronald Wright USA 51-3-1
2. Arthur Abraham GER 22-0
3. Kelly Pavlik USA 31-0
4. Edison Miranda COL 28-2
5. Felix Sturm GER 27-2
6. Javier Castillejo ESP 62-7
7. Amin Asikainen FIN 20-0
8. Sam Soliman AUS 33-9
9. Sebastian Sylvester GER 25-2
10. Sergio Mora USA 19-0


The Ring's Pound for Pound Ratings for period ending May 21

1. Floyd Mayweather USA, welterweight/jr. middleweight
2. Manny Pacquiao PHI, jr. lightweight
3. Rafael Marquez MEX, jr. featherweight
4. Juan Manuel Marquez MEX, jr. lightweight
5. Ronald Wright USA, middleweight
6. Bernard Hopkins USA, light heavyweight
7. Joe Calzaghe GBR, super middleweight
8. Marco Antonio Barrera MEX, jr. lightweight
9. Ricky Hatton GBR, jr. welterweight
10. Jermain Taylor USA, middleweight

 

[Donkey Thong]

Wait, did I just read a list that had Roberto Duran higher than Leonard, Hagler and Hearns?

 

[cthoaa]

Shannon Briggs lost the WBO Heavyweight championship last weekend, dropping a unanimous decision to Sultan Ibragimov, 119-109, 117-111, 115-113. Afterwards, he blamed pneumonia for his poor performance. Still, Briggs saw fit to not only compare, but rank himself AHEAD of boxers like Ali.

"With all due respect to Muhammed Ali and Sugar Ray Robinson, I'm the greatest of all time because I did it with asthma. I won the heavyweight title twice with a disease."

Also, the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board claimed today that Briggs lungs' were examined by a physician during pre- and post-fight medicals and that he was given a clean bill of health both times.

Another stellar showing for US HW boxing!

 

[cthoaa]

Wait, did I just read a list that had Roberto Duran higher than Leonard, Hagler and Hearns?

I don't know enough about them (aside from their HTH records) to make arguments for them, but most lists I've seen have Duran > Leonard > Hagler > Hearns.

Ring's 80 best fighters of the last 80 years (published in 2002) had Duran fifth, SRL ninth, Hagler seventeen, and Hearns sixty-seven.

In his 2006 revision of "100 Greatest Boxers Of All Time", Bert Sugar had Duran at eight, SRL twenty-five, Hagler forty-seven, and Hearns an even fifty.

 

[karasu]

The Russians are taking over!

 

[SSGMUN10000]

Last nights PPV card was pretty damn good.

Cotto-Judah

This was a war. It was brutal on both ends. There were some fouls on both ends but there was alot of action. Judah landed several hard shots and even rocked Cotto several times. Even though he landed those shots Cotto walked through it and battered Judah towards the stoppage in the 11th.

Soto-Pacquiao

This was another bloody war. Everyone pretty much expected Soto to walk through Pac-Man lite. It was looking that way till he landed a hard shot and almost dropped Soto. After several rounds Soto got his composure and got the ko in the 7th. This might set-up the Soto vs Pac-man fight.

Chavez Jr.-Grover

Well Jr avenged his fathers loss. Pretty much what everyone expected. Nice ko though. Now its time for Jr to step up the competition. They might match him up again Gatti later in the fall.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I watched the Cotto vs. Judah fight. O.M.G real awesome fight.

The commentators were spot on when they stated this was a return to form fight. Like something out of the 1940's 50's. Both of the fighters didn't dance around eachother (at least, Cotto didn't let Judah dance around him). It had to be the ring size (it was so small). Either way, awesome fight.

And my cousin was talking about how respectful Cotto was before the fight started...and he was stunned when Cotto punched Judah in the sack 2 times. Was that payback for the shit Judah pulled in the past? Don't know but that was crazzzzyyy

Oh and...ANOTHER WIN FOR PUERTO RICO AYAYAYAYYAYAYAYYAYA

Also, also, Chavez Jr. ****ed up Wiley with just body shots. Holy shit :lol

 

[DonCuco]

Yeah the Cotto vs Judah was an awesome fight. It was incredible how Cotto was rattled early on, and somehow he mustered enough strength to overcome that and eventually KO Zab later on in the rounds. There have been other fights where Cotto has been hit in the chin and rattled , andwhen I heard he was going to fight Zab I immediately though ok we'll see what Cotto is made out of. Well he's one tough hombre, and Puerto Rico should be proud.


Also Chavez Jr looked so composed for his age. He fights like a veteran for his age. Pretty soon they are going to release the lions, and we'll see if anything rubbed off from his old man..

Good fights..

 

[SSGMUN10000]

You know Im still not sold on Cotto. I think this was his first legit test. He needs to fight one of the elites to find out if he belongs there.

 

[cthoaa]

Following Saturday's fight, Cotto's camp says "yes, please."

"Miguel has always wanted to fight Mayweather," Top Rank president Todd duBoef said. "The Cotto family wants the fight. I think it's doable from our perspective."

On Monday, Mayweather's camp says "no, thank you."

“Miguel Cotto ain’t even in the same stratosphere as Floyd Mayweather,” Leonard Ellerbe, an adviser to Mayweather, said yesterday by telephone.

Ellerbe said that Cotto was not well known outside Puerto Rico and New York and that there would be no incentive for Mayweather to fight him, even though the bout could be an intriguing matchup.