If you're going to include any game with a MP component that require PS+ for $80/year (the most popular MP games don't as has been pointed out to you) in order to spin it as a mandatory cost of PS5 gaming, then you also have to factor in the cost of every free game you get each month with it. Not doing so is incredibly disingenuous.
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Senua
Gold Member
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Not saying it’s mandatory at all. I’m saying it’s not a 1 to 1 because multiplayer is a huge component for a lot of people. As for the "free game" you don’t keep them if you unsubscribe, so I’m uncertain what value we can attribute to them. You’re basically forced to pay the yearly fee forever. You also got tons of free games on PC you actually get to keep. Do we value them less because they’re not as good or more because you don’t have to keep paying a fee to play them?
Topher
Identifies as young
I don't put much stock into the free game aspect of PS+ either. PS+ was introduced entirely as a game subscription service back in the PS3 days but the service really didn't do that well until paid online was incorporated with the PS4. If not for online, PS+ probably wouldn't still be a thing.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
There are just too many variables to make sensible comparisons. I also grow bored of them and will bow out of this thread. I wasn't even interested in comparing them and only took a slight interest in the online aspect, but this whole thing comparing the Pro against a $700 PC is beyond silly. It always devolves into stupid shit like, "but you got a DualSense" "but you don't have mods" but this, but that ad nauseam. It's just tedious. Just buy your system and STFU. I try not to partake in those discussions but always find myself indirectly dragged into them.
PS: No, you can't build a PC as powerful as a Pro for $700.
Topher
Identifies as young
Think I'll follow your lead and bow out myself. You are right. The comparisons are really absurd if you take a step back and look at it clearly.
kevboard
Member
you can not replicate the trigger stops with the Dualsense adaptive triggers. those aren't designed to actually fully stop your press. Pretty sure you'd break something if it was used that way longterm while mashing really hard in heated combat
and again, I was only comparing non-premium controllers.
and one clear advantage that the (yes slightly mediocre) digital triggers of both the Joycons and Switch Pro controllers have is that their angle on a full press do not shift your grip in any noticeable way.
this is advantageous when using gyro aiming. the DualSense is not great for gyro aiming in competitive games because of the suboptimal ergonomics of the analog triggers. Basically, by depressing the triggers your controller will involuntarily be pushed upwards, and you can't do much about that while holding your controller with a normal grip.
You can get around that by either mapping fire to R1 or by using a full 6 finger grip similar to a claw grip.
this does not really happen on Switch as the triggers will not shift your controller upwards nearly as much
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King Dazzar
Member
I've thought this from the beginning: the only comparisons that are of real importance for me are between the base PS5 and the Pro. I'm buying a Pro to get a better PS5 experience, not to try and compete with any PC, be it low or high end. I have a PC for doing things I like to do on a PC and I have a PS5 (soon to be improved on Pro) for doing things I like to do on PS5.
brenobnfm
Member
Highly intelligent fella, the discussion started because the other highly intelligent fella was forcing the "$80" price tag of the plus on the Pro cost, as if most of the audience care about this shit, why the fuck would you count free to play games that doesn't require Plus? I probably have a better PC than you and don't play multiplayer crap.
About the list, you're counting shit like Assassin's Creed Shadows that doesn't even have multiplayer AFIIK, games that no one knows, games where multiplayer are completely optional. The point is that the PS5 Pro is a machine optimized for the single player graphical heavy games and the Plus is absolutely not needed for most of the audience. If you wanna count the Empire of the Ants to inflate your list as if someone is going to play this crap just to think you got a bigger e-dick, suit yourself.
twilo99
Member
The 7800xt replacement will likely launch at a very similar MSRP
Topher
Identifies as young
The only real PC comparison I've had in my mind about PS5 Pro is DLSS. I've been saying for a while that if PSSR can do for PS what DLSS did for Nvidia GPUs then I'm all in. I enjoy both the PC and console experience for different reasons. Consoles for the physical discs that I can rent/resell as well as the trophy hunting. PC for advanced visuals, mod support and, of course, Steam. PS5 Pro ain't going to make me forget my PC, but I'm excited for it nonetheless.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I doubt this. Around equal at best.
https://insider-gaming.com/exclusive-assassins-creed-shadows-co-op-mode/
As evidence by the *checks lists* 40% of the titles being multiplayer. The Pro will enhance practically every game from this point forward, including a lot of mp ones.
>Inflate your list
I didn’t make it up lmao. You said you were aware of it, but you were clearly not. Some of the biggest showpieces like GT7 and F1 2024 are huge multiplayer titles. Hell, they’re probably the ones that do the most on that list. Monster Hunter will be another huge one. Or do you think the improved shadows in Demon’s Souls or paltry addition of PSSR in TLOU is more important?
You downplay it for multiplayer games when it’ll still be a big deal there. Just say you were wrong and heavily underestimated what it does for mp games because they’ll also benefit immensely from the upgrade. I also said several times the multiplayer is not mandatory, just that it’s additional value and shouldn’t be discounted.
Anyway, I said I’d bow out of the thread and you’re clearly too angry and stubborn in the face of the truth, so have a good one.
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twilo99
Member
Yes, it’s an all round more powerful tool.
brenobnfm
Member
My friend, you're using a rumor about a post-launch feature, it may even happen, but the fact you're using free to play games, optional multiplayer modes and now damn rumors, yeah you better go indeed. And i realize multiplayer games are going to get enhanced, that was never my point, doesn't mean it's the focus of the console, you can see this by looking at the games Sony used to advertise it.
brenobnfm
Member
Too bad they're all rent.
twilo99
Member
Games for PC (and 3rd party Xbox titles to a certain extent) are never optimized as well as they are on PlayStation, which is a negative for PC, that’s why people are claiming you need to build an extra powerful PC in order to compensate for the lack of optimization.
Now, what we need is for consoles to simply die so we can finally get the developers to start optimizing for PC hardware and we can actually see some “generational” leaps in fidelity, etc.
Zathalus
Member
Not that it really matters. I’ve been buying games on Steam for almost two decades and have lost nothing. Any publisher stupid enough to do so on a major scale will probably get shafted by the EU and even if they don’t, pirating still exists.
brenobnfm
Member
It absolutely matters, that's money you'll never see again, if you care or not is irrelevant. Good physical collections from past consoles on the other side are worth fortunes.
MisterXDTV
Member
Ironman_Bad
Member
If consoles die AAA gaming as you know it dies lol 90% of mainstream gamers are not paying 2000$ for gpus and the funding for the big budget games will cease to exist you will be left with indies and 8k mobile games to play on your pc
Zathalus
Member
I’m not going to worry over a hypothetical maybe that might never see the light of day. It’s been almost two decades already and I’ve lost nothing.
Living in Europe the EU is keeping a very close eye on digital goods and on the very (basically nonexistent) chance they won’t do anything I’ll just download a pirated copy of the game. I prefer my games on Steam but really don’t care if I have to torrent something.
brenobnfm
Member
That has nothing to do with what i said, it's a bad financial decision but alright, if you're happy you're happy.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Honestly, the only reason I wanted to see PSSR compared to DLSS was for academic reasons to see where it stand and how it'll improve in the future but as usual fanboys have highjacked the conversation, this should be a celebration DLSS have been awesome for years and finally console only players (millions of us) like me can finally experience something like it.
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Zathalus
Member
A bad financial decision is buying dirt cheap digital games that I’ve lost exactly none of and can easily replace for free?
brenobnfm
Member
You only play ancient shit? You're not paying dirt cheap for AAA current gen games if you're on the legal side, and if you're not playing new games, this thread isn't for you.
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Zathalus
Member
No, I don’t only play ancient games, but then again I don’t buy every single game as they release either. Just this week a bunch of games have released that I want to play but my time is limited so I’ve only picked up Metaphor for €50 and will then eventually pick up the others when I have time and they will usually be 30-50% off. Metaphor by itself will probably take me several weeks to get through.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah, probably need a non-platform war OT, at this point, to discuss news about Pro testing prior to launch for those of us who are tired of this silly PC vs Pro debate.
Esppiral
Member
Are you also pleased having to pay the Draconian PSN prices for games with no other option to buy waaay cheaper ? Lol
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
How long before warriors invade it and turn it into another battleground? I'm all for it, but I doubt it manages to stay civil for more than a few replies.
reinking
Gold Member
brenobnfm
Member
Then you're not paying dirt cheap for digital rent, it's not that you won't lose these games, they were never yours. But again, it's your money, if you're happy who cares.
amigastar
Member
So true, the value you get from a PC is equivalent to Consoles, you get more out of it: Mods, Sales etc. like you said.
Topher
Identifies as young
From my perspective, OTs are generally threads for those genuinely interested in discussing the topic, not warring. That works both ways. In my mind, a PS5 Pro thread wouldn't be a "trash PCMR" safe space either. But it is ultimately up to the mods to decide if folks are going too far either way.
XXL
Member
Yeah, that won't work.....you can't censor people talking about it....just let the debate happen, things will get worked out.
I agree with your current post about OTs though.
Zathalus
Member
Yes, I know I’m only paying for a digital license, but there has been zero impact to me because of this. And replacing any of my games is free and easy. “Never yours” doesn’t really matter if the end result, namely the ability to play a game, is the same.
This fearmongering about digital PC games is silly. Sure there is a remote possibility that some of my games can get revoked a decade or two from now, just as there is a remote possibility that if everything was physical my house could burn down taking my collection with it.
I suppose I can see the downsides for a digital console game, being locked down to specific hardware and a single storefront with zero options to recover removed games would suck, but luckily none of that applies to PC.
brenobnfm
Member
Again, you lost money, you changed money for something worthless (a digital license), had you changed for a physical disc, you have something that will serve the same purpose and still retain value, it can even appreciate. You not caring is irrelevant, but you're factually wrong when you say the end result is the same lol
Topher
Identifies as young
HogIsland
Member
so you agree the ps5 pro costs at least $780 then?
Bojji
Member
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Zathalus
Member
Why would I (or the majority of gamers for that matter) care about the physical value of games?
But sure, if hoarding games for a hypothetical future gain is that important then I can see why PC would be a negative. Or if you’re one of those that play and sell games as soon as you’re done.
brenobnfm
Member
Because you're losing money? It's a deliberate choice, i do it too, especially if the game doesn't have a good console version or is better played with mouse and keyboard, but it's lost money regardless. Well, as others are saying, this got repetitive, you're satisfied with your approach, enjoy.
Zathalus
Member
I’ve not lost any money. I can still play every game I have ever paid for on PC. You’re arguing a remote hypothetical as if it’s a fact that already happened.
Feel free to quote and respond with a told you so when it actually happens.
phant0m
Member
Warriors can't help themselves.How is this thread still going on?
Though I do find it amusing that Pro-PC pivoted real quick from "we can build a pc for that price that runs games just as well/better" to "performance per $ doesn't matter, I can run any x86 game from the last 20 years and you can't"