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[Moses85]

Rude Nintendo is striking back to Sell us their outdated Hardware for a high price.

 

[peish]

So is this faked ? Please lock if true

 

[PSYGN]

So is this faked ? Please lock if true

Keep open if true

 

[LordOcidax]

Rude Nintendo is striking back to Sell us their outdated Hardware for a high price.

How this is outdated?

 

[Muddy]

PS4 Pro and Series S have literally the same grunt, that doesn't make sense at all. It's a Series S docked give or take, RDNA2 is a closer comparison to Ampere than some old ass GCN4 GPU.

The most powerful handheld on the market is on par with the Series S.

It costs 1000 dollars.

Nintendo gonna sell that for 400-500 dollars and take a loss too? Yeah right.

 

[LordOcidax]

Delusional Nintendo fanboys who think Switch 2 will come even close to PS5 or even Series S at a mere 7W TDP? Delusional fanboys who think DLSS is a magic solution despite being known to offload computing from GPU to CPU?

Yup, business as usual.

 

[LordOcidax]

The most powerful handheld on the market is on par with the Series S.

It costs 1000 dollars.

Nintendo gonna sell that for 400-500 dollars and take a loss too? Yeah right.

Not the same business model as Nintendo… And how you know that selling it at 400 they are taking a loss?? Did you work at Nvidia?

 

[kazuyamishima]

Not the same business model as Nintendo… And how you know that selling it at 400 they are taking a loss?? Did you work at Nvidia?

It's very naive to think that Nintendo is somehow immune to parts pricing.

The OG Steam Deck is possibly still losing money to Valve and it's very obvious that Nintendo will want to make some profit, so they could even go $449 for the Basic model.

But at $399, the specs will be inferior of what people are expecting.

 

[Kataploom]

Never beating graphically intensive PS4 games, even docked, with that memory bandwidth. It's going to on par with PS4 graphics with downscaled PS5 games (which developers also do on PS4 like latest Jedi Survivor BTW).

Next Zelda will look like Kena running on PS4 (so it will look great), but you'll never get games as detailed as Horizon Zero Dawn or Killzone SF.

Memory bandwidth isn't everything, it's ultra low latency compared to GDDR6

 

[RodriGames40]

The most powerful handheld on the market is on par with the Series S.

It costs 1000 dollars.

Nintendo gonna sell that for 400-500 dollars and take a loss too? Yeah right.

It's not the same pricing model. Nintendo actually wants to sell lots of these unlike PC manufacturers. The truth is that specs are well understood and at the expected node it will fight the Series S in all departments, which is in itself a newer PS4 Pro.

 

[kevboard]

Since when has DLSS been free? A native 1080p and a 1080p DLSS upscaled to higher res doesn’t cost the same. Am I tripping or what?

it's about 1.5ms to 2ms from 1080p to 4k afaik
it does replace TAA, which means the time saved for that helps in it's favour.

 

[killatopak]

it's about 1.5ms to 2ms from 1080p to 4k afaik
it does replace TAA, which means the time saved for that helps in it's favour.

What’s that realistically 8 frames lost per second?

 

[CS Lurker]

it's about 1.5ms to 2ms from 1080p to 4k afaik

The questions is what's the cost when you only have 48 tensor cores (gen 3 = Ampere), and clocked at, let's say, 1GHz docked (just as an example)

 

[kevboard]

What’s that realistically 8 frames lost per second?

hard to say for sure, it's also dependent on the game.
TAA can in some engines also take 1ms or more, so you gain that 1ms by taking away TAA, and then lose 1 or 2 ms by adding DLSS.
(at 1440p, TAA can cost 1.5ms in GODOT apparently)

also worth noting that it will of course also replace any other temporal upsampling that other systems would apply, like FSR2, TSR, or even TAAU, which Unreal Engine games heavily rely one even on the current Switch

 

[LordOcidax]

It's very naive to think that Nintendo is somehow immune to parts pricing.

The OG Steam Deck is possibly still losing money to Valve and it's very obvious that Nintendo will want to make some profit, so they could even go $449 for the Basic model.

But at $399, the specs will be inferior of what people are expecting.

Supply parts for Nintendo and the Switch is not the same as supply parts to a random brand an a handheld pc at all… Due the secured volume of production, Nintendo is going to have the lower price possible for parts, Also Nintendo can go low in profit margins if they want, because they make bank with first party software. PC Handheld makers go really high in profit margins because they bank on hardware. Also the spec leak is almost confirmed at this point, the only thing we don’t know is frequency speeds.

 

[Parazels]

The most powerful handheld on the market is on par with the Series S.

It costs 1000 dollars.

Nintendo gonna sell that for 400-500 dollars and take a loss too? Yeah right.

Not optimized graphics for $1000 ≈
optimized graphics for $500.

 

[GigaBowser]

nvidia embarrrasses AMD im sorry my friends

 

[Esppiral]

Looks like the dock will be the same/compatible judging by the render comparison, would it mean that the dock will be sell separately? ...

 

[DenchDeckard]

The CONSOLE itself is a handheld, you can't change that no matter how hard you try to spin it

It has an HDMI Video OUT and supports a powered dock to increase clocks

But it's not a home console by any means

It's a hybrid. I know some people that have hardly ever taken their switch out the house or played it unlocked. They have a pro controller and it's locked 99% of the time. I've had the conversation and to them they like playing it on a big tv with a pro controller.

I think that's crazy but it's valid. I somewhat agree with you and I would say it's a handheld you can dock and play on the big screen but I've deffo had discussions (arguments) with my nerdy friends about this lol.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Rude Nintendo is striking back to Sell us their outdated Hardware for a high price.

Brand new Nvidia soc and fast 7500mt memory?

Yup definitely aged old hardware.

 

[Parazels]

Looks like the dock will be the same/compatible judging by the render comparison, would it mean that the dock will be sell separately? ...

Don't people complain on the current dock due to scratches? I'm sure Nintendo have to solve the problem in Switch 2.

 

[West Texas CEO]

I think it's over.

 

[GigaBowser]

i can tell u how powerful thirs is in 1 gif

Spoiler

 

[West Texas CEO]

RIP to the great Chris Farley.

 

[Londo]

Real ballers wait for Switch Quattro

 

[Klosshufvud]

there is no TDP limit when docked... noone expects it to match any console in handheld mode. this is about docked mode, when it needs to output to a 4K TV. in handheld mode it can run below 720p and be fine. hell 540p would probably be fine, which would be 1080p with DLSS performance mode. sure it would have noticeable artifacting, but who cares? it's a handheld.

Upscaling from 540p to 1080p is bad business no matter what upscaling or reconstruction technique used. There simply isn't enough pixels to work with to make a decent image. This is why upscaling techniques really only becomes viable when base resolution is minimum of 1080p. And there will absolutely be a TDP limit even when docked. Why? Because the cooling is still the same. Docking does not magically add huge fans to cool down a 300W power output. Just look at Switch 1. You'll see even in docked, its TDP is highly modest compared to other consoles. Because it's still restricted by its handheld cooling.

If you're expecting more than from a Steam Deck, you're delusional. DLSS under these restricted settings (weak CPUs, low amount of compute units, low base resolution) is not at all comparable to a beefy PC using DLSS with a high-end CPU to support it. Such comparisons are meaningless.

 

[LordOcidax]

Upscaling from 540p to 1080p is bad business no matter what upscaling or reconstruction technique used. There simply isn't enough pixels to work with to make a decent image. This is why upscaling techniques really only becomes viable when base resolution is minimum of 1080p. And there will absolutely be a TDP limit even when docked. Why? Because the cooling is still the same. Docking does not magically add huge fans to cool down a 300W power output. Just look at Switch 1. You'll see even in docked, its TDP is highly modest compared to other consoles. Because it's still restricted by its handheld cooling.

If you're expecting more than from a Steam Deck, you're delusional. DLSS under these restricted settings (weak CPUs, low amount of compute units, low base resolution) is not at all comparable to a beefy PC using DLSS with a high-end CPU to support it. Such comparisons are meaningless.

Nop, two bigger fans these time and a bigger cooper pipe, according to the leak. Maybe only one fan works in handheld and two in docked mode.

 

[Klosshufvud]

Nop, two bigger fans these time and a bigger cooper pipe, according to the leak.

The cooling is still the same as the handheld unit. I'm not saying it has identical cooling to Switch 1. It's still using handheld cooling and a handheld chip intended for low wattage usage. Just because you plug a Steam Deck to a dock doesn't magically turn it into a PS5, nor does an Rog Ally. Despite the latter using a far beefier GPU and CPU configuration than Switch 2 ever will.

 

[Jesb]

It's a hybrid. I know some people that have hardly ever taken their switch out the house or played it unlocked. They have a pro controller and it's locked 99% of the time. I've had the conversation and to them they like playing it on a big tv with a pro controller.

I think that's crazy but it's valid. I somewhat agree with you and I would say it's a handheld you can dock and play on the big screen but I've deffo had discussions (arguments) with my nerdy friends about this lol.

If I get it, it would only be on my tv. I’ll never even see it since it’ll be on the wall behind the tv.

 

[Preseznik]

Good for you

The fact that you used an "adapter" to connect it to the TV still doesn't make it an home console

You're hilarious, not being able to fathom innovation and new things that don't fit into your view of how things work.
And this for a 7 year old product.

Nintendo's official stance is that this is a hybrid console, meaning BOTH, regardless of your opinion, and tens of millions of people are using it in both capacities.

I have no idea what you're trying to argue here, must've missed the motivation behind this?

 

[LordOcidax]

The cooling is still the same as the handheld unit. I'm not saying it has identical cooling to Switch 1. It's still using handheld cooling and a handheld chip intended for low wattage usage. Just because you plug a Steam Deck to a dock doesn't magically turn it into a PS5, nor does an Rog Ally. Despite the latter using a far beefier GPU and CPU configuration than Switch 2 ever will.

Nobody is saying the Switch 2 is going to reach PS5 level when docked… But it could go from PS4 level in handheld mode to PS4 Pro/Series S when docked.

 

[Woopah]

Good for you

The fact that you used an "adapter" to connect it to the TV still doesn't make it an home console

It's a home console for a lot of people. And it's a handheld for a lot of people. It's almost as if it's a "hybrid" console of sorts meant to be used whichever way you prefer. Lol.

You might have me if it was just a tablet with HDMI out.

But a special higher clock mode only available when docked? Completely unavailable without a dock and TV? With mandated profiles for both handheld and docked modes? Sounds like a handheld that is also a console.

"Hybrid" isn't BS it's exactly what it is. It was designed to account for power and cooling requirements in "console mode", like fans that only kick in when docked. If it wasn't half-console -it wouldn't need these features at all. It could just display whatever it has for portable mode and call it a day, but docked mode is there for a reason...you know, for being a console lol.

What if they made a device the exact size of the Switch, but without a screen or rails? All you could do with it is plug it into a TV and play 4k games on it. Would you call it a handheld lacking a screen, or a console? If you add the screen back in, then what?

The way I would frame it is that the SoC had to be designed with portable restrictions in mind.

But the actual product as a whole is designed to be a home console and a portable console.

 

[Radical_3d]

Not PURPLE!

Hail to the king, baby!

 

[FireFly]

The cooling is still the same as the handheld unit. I'm not saying it has identical cooling to Switch 1. It's still using handheld cooling and a handheld chip intended for low wattage usage. Just because you plug a Steam Deck to a dock doesn't magically turn it into a PS5, nor does an Rog Ally. Despite the latter using a far beefier GPU and CPU configuration than Switch 2 ever will.

The T239 has 1536 ALUs compared to 768 in the Rog Ally and 512 in the Steam Deck. We would expect it to be 20%-30% more powerful than the Rog Ally and about 1.8X more powerful than the Steam Deck on the same process/TDP. That's not enough to get close to a Series S without DLSS, at 15W and lower TDPs. However even at 11W on 7 nm/6nm, it should be able to beat the Steam Deck.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Keep open if true

Lock and unlock every 45 minutes whether true or not.

 

[Radical_3d]

Lock and unlock every 45 minutes whether true or not.

 

[Salmonboy]

Ugh, those tiny controllers.

etc.

I bought some 3rd party larger joycons which transformed the system's usability and am genuinely surprised that Nintendo haven't done something to improve the sequel to the Switch's* ergonomics. Maybe their core market really does have child sized hands. Unthinkable, but possible.

*wildly successfull, billion selling, yes, yes.

Who in their right mind are using the switch controllers at all? They are made for kids. You play with a pro controller or handheld at most.

 

[Klosshufvud]

The T239 has 1536 ALUs compared to 768 in the Rog Ally and 512 in the Steam Deck. We would expect it to be 20%-30% more powerful than the Rog Ally and about 1.8X more powerful than the Steam Deck on the same process/TDP. That's not enough to get close to a Series S without DLSS, at 15W and lower TDPs. However even at 11W on 7 nm/6nm, it should be able to beat the Steam Deck.

No way in hell is Switch 2 beating the Z1E chip. Get your expectations in check. This is a 7W $400 Nintendo device, not a 25W $1000 Rog Ally. Nintendo will not push for power. Your basis of comparisons are entirely faulty.

 

[FireFly]

No way in hell is Switch 2 beating the Z1E chip. Get your expectations in check. This is a 7W $400 Nintendo device, not a 25W $1000 Rog Ally. Nintendo will not push for power. Your basis of comparisons are entirely faulty.

Did you read my post? I was talking about performance at the same TDP. Obviously the Switch 2 will not be pushing 25W but as I said, even at 11W docked (Switch 1 power consumption, according to Anandtech) it should be able to beat the Steam Deck.

 

[photogaz]

Any word yet if this is going to be LCD or OLED?

 

[BlackTron]

So is this faked ? Please lock if true

We'll e-mail Nintendo right away and get right back to you.

 

[Hrk69]

Rude Nintendo is striking back to Sell us their outdated Hardware for a high price.

And it's going to sell like hot cakes

Mad?

 

[Moses85]

And it's going to sell like hot cakes

Mad?

Sure not, I am one of these Fanboys who buys it Day One.

 

[GymWolf]

Just FYI, FSR uses some portion of the console's horsepower to do the upscaling...it's a quite fine "better than nothing" software-based solution. Whereas DLSS has dedicated hardware that does not impact the compute power available for games, all it does is use AI to upscale the image.

This can create a pretty big gulf. The stronger system is using a bigger % of its power to push pixels. The weaker system becomes free to make up the difference in the game. In other words, I expect Switch 2 to be a big nuisance to PS5 in third party games. A difference yes, but a smaller and less meaningful one than Switch v PS4.

Unless you are talking about PS5 Pro which has PSSR which PS5 lacks. Switch 2 can't compete with Pro (of course) but all of Pro's games are made for base PS5 which IMO Switch 2 will trade blows with in real-world on screen graphics.

Nintendo is never gonna enter the graphic race with the other 2, the budget of their games would levitate a lot and they are smart enough to know that they can sell their games at full price even with production values from 10 years ago.

Being able to do something is not the same as doing it.

 

[BlackTron]

The way I would frame it is that the SoC had to be designed with portable restrictions in mind.

But the actual product as a whole is designed to be a home console and a portable console.

Right, a SoC that had to be designed with portable restrictions in mind, and docked ceilings in mind.

I'll say Switch isn't a "traditional console". So that makes it easier to differentiate from a practical/technical standpoint when discussing it. I mean, it obviously isn't, but traditional console does not encompass the only possible example of a console. An SNES Mini or an Ouya is a console FFS. If we only define console by hardware power, then the Mini is just a weak handheld with the screen removed, HDMI out and two controllers in the box. Obvously, SNES Mini isn't a traditional console either. It's still a game console.

I don't think we should feel our traditional consoles are so threatened that nothing else is allowed to be called a game console anymore. We'll need a new word to fill the gap in that case.

 

[Hrk69]

Sure not, I am one of these Fanboys who buys it Day One.

 

[BlackTron]

Nintendo is never gonna enter the graphic race with the other 2, the budget of their games would levitate a lot and they are smart enough to know that they can sell their games at full price even with production values from 10 years ago.

Being able to do something is not the same as doing it.

Nintendo will probably do less work squeezing their games into shitty hardware, and third parties can port versions with closer parity full of all those crazy details people want.

They will always be behind in power, Nintendo can't help it if it doesn't matter anymore.

 

[FalconPunch]

reminder that all those Handhelds use AMD hardware.

Nvidia wipes the floor with them in the GPU business for a reason. They are now so far ahead that they cancelled the 4090ti because there would be no point in releasing it as they are legitimately a full generation ahead already.

also, these handhelds cost as much as they do because the manufacturers need to make profits from selling the hardware alone. there is zero revenue stream after selling the hardware. Asus isn't licensing and selling games on a dedicated store. they sell you a handheld and that's where their revenue stream ends.

Nintendo doesn't need to make a single cent in revenue from selling the hardware. they can sell it exactly at manufacturing cost or slightly below even if they want to be aggressive. Asus, Lenovo and all those chinese manufacturers can not do that.

these handhelds are also a very niche market still, with not a lot of sales, which the manufacturers know. so to get the R&D costs back and make a profit, they need to hike up the prices enough to make enough money back, from a low volume market

This is where the Nintendo delusionist begin to show their true colors. Nvidia GPUs besting amd gpus in the desktop space has absolutely nothing to do with performance in the low power space. Keep in mind that at each price level where they compete, Amd is better in rasterization than Nvidia.

We don’t even know what process node Nvidia is using for this chip but if it’s Samsung 8nm, it’s not going to be touching the Z1 extreme in the Rog Ally talk-less of the Series S. Some seriously low iq takes in this thread. Also, DLSS has a fixed cost to it and unfortunately, mobile hardware will not have as many tensor cores as desktop. We’re talking about a tdp limited chip and people here are dropping clown level takes. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Bernoulli]

This is where the Nintendo delusionist begin to show their true colors. Nvidia GPUs besting amd gpus in the desktop space has absolutely nothing to do with performance in the low power space. Keep in mind that at each price level where they compete, Amd is better in rasterization than Nvidia.

We don’t even know what process node Nvidia is using for this chip but if it’s Samsung 8nm, it’s not going to be touching the Z1 extreme in the Rog Ally talk-less of the Series S. Some seriously low iq takes in this thread. Also, DLSS has a fixed cost to it and unfortunately, mobile hardware will not have as many tensor cores as desktop. We’re talking about a tdp limited chip and people here are dropping clown level takes. Absolutely ridiculous.

and the Z1 successor ic coming, pair that with the FSR4 if it's ai like PSSR and DLSS

 

[BlackTron]

Delusional Nintendo fanboys who think Switch 2 will come even close to PS5 or even Series S at a mere 7W TDP? Delusional fanboys who think DLSS is a magic solution despite being known to offload computing from GPU to CPU?

Yup, business as usual.

God I can't wait for this to come out.