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[Tesseract]

"Daryl Davis is a black Blues musician who builds friendships with members of White Supremacy organizations. Through this he has helped convince over 200 white supremacists to renounce their ideology and leave their organizations. He is joined by one of these men, Jeff Schoep former director of a Neo-Nazi organization who is now a Human Rights Advocate." (5/28/20)

loved him on jre, nice to see him here and other places

great man

 

[#Phonepunk#]

praying for the safety of the innocent bystanders in riot cities this weekend

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Does anyone in here believe that Trump is actually a Christian? I've met some people who believe that and as a Christian, I couldn't be more baffled.

The Bible says in Matthew 5:16, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."

1 John 3:10 says "
In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother."

Leviticus 19: 12-14 says "
12 “Do not bring shame on the name of your God by using it to swear falsely. I am the Lord.

13 “Do not defraud or rob your neighbor.

“Do not make your hired workers wait until the next day to receive their pay.

14 “Do not insult the deaf or cause the blind to stumble. You must fear your God; I am the Lord."

To me, if any Christian has read their Bible, there's is no way that you can look at Trump and discern that he displays the fruits of the spirit. Anyway, for the most part, Christianity in North America is not Christianity but religious occultism that selectively chooses the parts that they like to follow and the parts that they don't. After all, when you look at the example set for us in the new testament by the disciples and compare it to what you see in your day to day life, the stark contrast cannot be ignored. It's why non believers often say that Jesus sounds awesome but Christians ruin the whole thing. Anyway I digress.

For those of you who actually believe, Trump is a Christian, please share why. I'm very interested to understand how one could logically arrive at that conclusion. To me, he's more like a punishment similar to the type God used on the israelites by allowing them to fall into captivity for their sins.

 

[Chaplain]

Does anyone in here believe that Trump is actually a Christian? I've met some people who believe that and as a Christian, I couldn't be more baffled.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Thanks for sharing this video as it goes to reinforce the points I made earlier. I've been all over the world and spent the formative years of my life in poorer parts of the world and what this man said is 100% true.

When I look at the church and its structure in the western world, it somewhat of a farce tbh. Often comical in nature as its so far removed from the structure and practices demonstrated in the Bible. Thats not to say other areas of the world lack problems with their structure but, the church in North America is so far removed from the teachings of the Bible that it has turned into a business. It reminds me of the verse Matthew 21 12-13 which says "12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’[b]”

The way the church in the west has become one with the world is shocking. Instead of preaching holiness, righteousness, love, we're busy seeing prosperity gospel, excessive expenditures, private jets, and the push towards the acquisition of material things and not things of the spirit.

The bible tells us in 1 John 2:15-17 "Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you. For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world. And this world is fading away, along with everything that people crave. But anyone who does what pleases God will live forever."

All of this is to say that those who claim to be of Christ bear the fruits of christ. As it says in John 15 5-8 "5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples."

This is not to say that I'm perfect as I have my struggles with as does everyone. Its just something I've noticed. A Christian must bear the fruits of Christ. Unbelievers can see those fruits yet many of us who claim to be Christians seem to have forgotten what it means to be a Christian.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

thinking that those who call themselves Christians are falling short of ideals is a very old, very Christian thing to do! this is why St. Francis started out the same way, he cut himself off from his fellow monks and went to live with nature.

as for "is Trump a Christian", that's a personal thing for him alone to decide. im not going to start judging people as Christian or not based on behavior. that would be incredibly hypocritical. isn't that what the Romans did during the martyr years? demand that people pledge fealty to the Roman idols or die? the great thing about America is we have religious freedom.

personally i don't think spirituality and politics mix at all, and imo the Bible itself points this out many times. for me religion is a personal experience. this is what is meant by "personal relationship" with God/Jesus.

 

[Helscream]

Does anyone in here believe that Trump is actually a Christian? I've met some people who believe that and as a Christian, I couldn't be more baffled.

What defines a Christian? You must believe, but also openly, and publicly confess before all mankind that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, who died for your sins that you could be redeemed. That He was buried yet was resurrected and now serve's at the right hand of the Father as our one and only mediator to the Creator. That Jesus Christ is your personal, eternal Lord and
Savior.

The only two politicians I can think of in recent memory that have ever publicly confessed Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior are Michelle Bachman, and Benjamin Carson. So at face value, any politician who has not made a public confession are questionable at best in terms of their Christian Faith.

To me, if any Christian has read their Bible, there's is no way that you can look at Trump and discern that he displays the fruits of the spirit. Anyway, for the most part, Christianity in North America is not Christianity but religious occultism that selectively chooses the parts that they like to follow and the parts that they don't. After all, when you look at the example set for us in the new testament by the disciples and compare it to what you see in your day to day life, the stark contrast cannot be ignored. It's why non believers often say that Jesus sounds awesome but Christians ruin the whole thing. Anyway I digress.

Most Christians are Bible illiterate. For example Trump announced (before the Coronavirus issue) that he had this incredible peace plan for Israel. He would help negotiate the dividing of the land of Israel and that east Jerusalem would be the capital of a newly formed Palestine. Mind you Trump has his own group of super-duper-christian-evangelical-apostle-prophet-doctor coalition that probably all felt this was good a idea and help confirm this decision.

IF ANYONE would actually READ whats in the Bible. The Land of Israel belongs to YHVH. The Israeli government is foolish and disobedient in trying to establish peace through politics, economic, or military chicanery. If they want peace they need to repent and return to the God of their forefathers and obey His Word.

The Donald Trump Administration and American Christians are foolish to think they can help divide the land of Israeli, divide the city of Jerusalem and that this is going to establish peace. Donald Trump no less said he would place a U.S. Embassy in East Jerusalem for Palestine.

The land of Israel and the Hebrew people are the apple of God's eye. This insanity goes directly against what is in the Bible.

For those of you who actually believe, Trump is a Christian, please share why. I'm very interested to understand how one could logically arrive at that conclusion. To me, he's more like a punishment similar to the type God used on the israelites by allowing them to fall into captivity for their sins.

There is information out there in the open to help prove Trump has very loose, if any Christian worldview. I can expand on this later if asked. I agree with your assessment, however the entire system of government has been wicked and corrupt for decades. Its not just Donald Trump.

The sad truth is that Christians, just like any other group defined by identity politics is manipulated and lied to in efforts to gain their vote and manufactured consent to do all kinds of evil and wicked things. Donald Trump says alot of good things, and he knows how to pick up on the legitimate grievances of christian people. But that is just politics.

I really feel the urge to go on a tear and rant about this very issue, but I'll leave my post as is for now.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

There is information out there in the open to help prove Trump has very loose, if any Christian worldview. I can expand on this later if asked. I agree with your assessment, however the entire system of government has been wicked and corrupt for decades. Its not just Donald Trump.

The sad truth is that Christians, just like any other group defined by identity politics is manipulated and lied to in efforts to gain their vote and manufactured consent to do all kinds of evil and wicked things. Donald Trump says alot of good things, and he knows how to pick up on the legitimate grievances of christian people. But that is just politics.

I really feel the urge to go on a tear and rant about this very issue, but I'll leave my post as is for now.

The whole system is corrupt and with that i agree but, i think some Christians get manipulated so easily for 2 reasons.

1) They are bible illiterate
2) They are intent on imposing/establishing a Godly kingdom on earth through force if necessary.

With regards to the first point, most people don't read their bible sp they can't tell when they're being fed nonsense. Psalms 119:11 says "
Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You." If you do not know the word, how can you discern if what is being taught is correct? Furthermore, we're are encouraged to be like the Bereans and what are their characteristics? Well Acts 17:11 says "
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so."

If one was reading their bible, they'd be like they'd be like "the sons of Issachar who had understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do". Jesus changed the game. Now we don't need someone telling us what God said like the prophets of old. If you want to know what God is saying about something, get on your knees and seek the face of God. You'll eventually get the answer. It's unfortunate how many of us still haven't figured that out.

With regards to the second point. Trying to implement the kingdom of God in the country by force or by law is not going to work. The word of God will never return void and it must come to pass. All I've noticed is that some Christians become hyper focused on one particular sin and it depends on the times. Any politician that takes a stance against the popular sin causes a set of Christians to ascribe Christ like characteristics to someone whom is not a child of God. Back in the day, the popular sin was adultery, today we all know what it is. The problem is that a sin is a sin and none is greater than another. People get all up in arms about one while ignoring the others like lying, greed, lust, pride, etc which are all tenants of this earth.

John 3:16-18 says "16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

Jesus came to save the world and not to condemn people. There is an appointed time for judgment and God will be the one to judge. We're to condemn sinful acts but not condemn people. Matthew 7:1-5 says "
Matthew 7:1-5 NIV
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. [2] For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. [3] “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? [4] How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? [5] 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

All of this is to say, time and time again, people are more concerned about the appearance of righteousness than righteousness itself. We're told to love the lord your God and love thy neighbor as thyself. Not once did I see in those verse that we should be walking around passing judgment on unbelievers while walking around with planks in our eyes.

The way of God and tbe way of the world are not even remotely similar. Getting swept up because a politician issues a few bible verses is sad and believing that said politician will "bring the nation closer to God" is even sadder.

 

[Chaplain]

So beautiful...



"Worship is the submission of all of our nature to God. It is the quickening of the conscience by his holiness; the nourishment of mind with his truth; the purifying of imagination by his beauty; the opening of the heart to his love; the surrender of will to his purpose—all this gathered up in adoration, the most selfless emotion of which our nature is capable." (Archbishop William Temple)

 

[Helscream]

The whole system is corrupt and with that i agree but, i think some Christians get manipulated so easily for 2 reasons.

1) They are bible illiterate
2) They are intent on imposing/establishing a Godly kingdom on earth through force if necessary.

With regards to the first point, most people don't read their bible sp they can't tell when they're being fed nonsense. Psalms 119:11 says "
Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You." If you do not know the word, how can you discern if what is being taught is correct? Furthermore, we're are encouraged to be like the Bereans and what are their characteristics? Well Acts 17:11 says "
These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so."

If one was reading their bible, they'd be like they'd be like "the sons of Issachar who had understanding of the times, to know what Israel ought to do". Jesus changed the game. Now we don't need someone telling us what God said like the prophets of old. If you want to know what God is saying about something, get on your knees and seek the face of God. You'll eventually get the answer. It's unfortunate how many of us still haven't figured that out.

Well said. The complete ignorance of what the Bible says and how it defines the Christian Faith is the most severe issue of today.

With regards to the second point. Trying to implement the kingdom of God in the country by force or by law is not going to work. The word of God will never return void and it must come to pass. All I've noticed is that some Christians become hyper focused on one particular sin and it depends on the times. Any politician that takes a stance against the popular sin causes a set of Christians to ascribe Christ like characteristics to someone whom is not a child of God. Back in the day, the popular sin was adultery, today we all know what it is. The problem is that a sin is a sin and none is greater than another. People get all up in arms about one while ignoring the others like lying, greed, lust, pride, etc which are all tenants of this earth.

John 3:16-18 says "16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

Jesus came to save the world and not to condemn people. There is an appointed time for judgment and God will be the one to judge. We're to condemn sinful acts but not condemn people. Matthew 7:1-5 says "
Matthew 7:1-5 NIV
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. [2] For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. [3] “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? [4] How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? [5] 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

All of this is to say, time and time again, people are more concerned about the appearance of righteousness than righteousness itself. We're told to love the lord your God and love thy neighbor as thyself. Not once did I see in those verse that we should be walking around passing judgment on unbelievers while walking around with planks in our eyes.

The way of God and tbe way of the world are not even remotely similar. Getting swept up because a politician issues a few bible verses is sad and believing that said politician will "bring the nation closer to God" is even sadder.

The idea that humanity needs to help God establish His Kingdom on earth, or that we need to prepare to usher in the Messianic age is completely insanity. Jesus returns to judge the wicked inhabitants of the earth within and without. He also is the one who establishes His Kingdom and brings peace upon the earth. If mankind was able to do this, what would be the point of His return.

It is easy to focus on the public sin. People like drug addicts, or homosexuals are easy targets. Instead of helping reveal the love of Jesus Christ to these people, they are picked on to help others feel righteous about themselves in comparison. Yet where is the chastisement of the unfaithful husband? The mother who does not care for her children? The Man who hates and envies his own brother? No one preaches about sin anymore because it makes people uncomfortable and brings on conviction.

For the most part sin is sin. However Jesus himself mentioned of "greater condemnations" but that's another conversation. While agree Christians are not to judge, as in God is the ultimate arbiter of justice and it is not our calling or responsibility to administer punishment to others. We are expected to call out sin for what it is, and judge with righteous judgement. The Bible clearly defines what is righteous and what is unrighteous. We are expected to know this that we may have discernment of how to live our lifes. As well as share this wisdom with our Christian family.

There is a book that was written by William P. Grady titled "How Satan turned America against God". It is an exhaustive history of Christianity and the early days of the United States. How as a nation, America has decayed spiritually and no longer maintains its moral compass which mostly originated from the Bible.

If any real Christian who tries to make a real difference in American politics will end up like Ralph Nader, forgotten and ostracized. If any real Christian tries to expose the wickedness of our government institutions you will end up like Nancy Schaefer. Senator of Georgia who lost her senate seat, and lost her life as well as her husbands life for attempting to expose the child abduction and trafficking conducted by the Child Protective Services.

 

[Ornlu]

It is easy to focus on the public sin. People like drug addicts, or homosexuals are easy targets. Instead of helping reveal the love of Jesus Christ to these people, they are picked on to help others feel righteous about themselves in comparison. Yet where is the chastisement of the unfaithful husband? The mother who does not care for her children? The Man who hates and envies his own brother? No one preaches about sin anymore because it makes people uncomfortable and brings on conviction.

Well said, both by yourself and T TheSpecialOne ; I'll just add to this excerpt that I've always thought the idea of a 'public sin' being worse than others was crazy. If, say, a pastor or member of church leadership were to have had an affair which became known, or was having a messy divorce, the likelihood of them being kicked out of their home church would be almost 100%. But if the same person were 'known' to be a recovering alcoholic or drug addict, they would most likely be able to return after making some kind of effort toward fixing the issue. It might not even be talked about, while a sexual sin would see them removed.

I've just never understood the way we treat sin within the Church. We as people don't seem to treat sins the way we are ordered to do so in Scripture.

 

[Bolivar687]

I'm tired of this thread's generalizations about "the Church."

Unless you're naming names, you're condemning large swaths of people for thinking that they're better than others, as a means to tell yourself that you're better than these imaginary Christians you've invented in your head.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

yes, im not a fan of bashing others for misunderstanding. nobody has the secret code that unlocks the Bible and understands the ultimate mystery of God. that is pretty silly imo. it's nice to talk about the meaning of the texts themselves. once politics gets mixed up in ANYTHING then it will be distorted and propagandized and perverted. imo what most people know as Christianity is a McDonald's or Walmart corporate version of it, mostly misrepresented by an anti-Christian media that openly hates the culture.

there are a lot of writings about the Bible and faith itself tho. hundreds and thousands of years of cultural tradition. lots of new writings too. i like Alan Watts, who spent time as a Zen monk before becoming a Catholic priest. he wrote this book on the central mysteries of Catholicisim.

Behold the Spirit: A Study in the Necessity of Mystical Religion, a book by Alan Watts (1915–1973), was first published in 1947 by John Murray Publishers (London). This book is a reworking of Watts' Episcopal divinity degree thesis. Its importance lies partly in its exposition of Watts' earliest attempt to reconcile traditional Anglican theology with a mystical, Buddhist based approach, but also as a personal expression of the mystical experience.

At the time of his appointment as the Episcopal chaplain at Northwestern University in 1944 he was said to be "wildly popular on campus, and his books were received in progressive religious circles as challenging and compelling." This book is the most extensive example of his early effort to find a non-dualistic interpretation of Anglican theology in terms of The Perennial Philosophy as expounded in Aldous Huxley's contemporary work of that name and later made popular in the talks of Joseph Campbell.

he discusses the symbolism behind many of the biggest parts of Catholicism, such as the miracle of transubstantiation and the mystery of the Holy Trinity. this is stuff that cannot be discussed viz a viz generalizations or political parties. it requires far more nuance. it is LITERARY. you have to look at the text themselves and the meaning that lies within.

i don't think bashing others for not understanding is very productive. better to educate. most Christians in modern times are not provided with a culture of their own. we are aliens, trapped in an anti-Christian media, with false prophets and perversions all around. it is hard to find good resources for understanding these complicated, deep texts and traditions. this book is a refreshing and personal take on the meanings of classical Catholicism, coming from a place using Jungian symbolism and the psychology of 20th century Western thought. i highly recommend.

 

[Rat Rage]

Spoiler

UFOs are not real
Gods are not real
Superstition is not real
Magic is not real
Astrology is not real

You're welcome!

 

[Tesseract]

Spoiler

UFOs are not real
Gods are not real
Superstition is not real
Magic is not real
Astrology is not real

You're welcome!

tell me more

 

[Thurible]

Spoiler

UFOs are not real
Gods are not real
Superstition is not real
Magic is not real
Astrology is not real

You're welcome!

Seems unnecessarily contentious by lumping G-d with the irrational occult and appearing to suggest that having faith is like being trapped in the matrix, what exactly is the goal here for you? Also, what does christianity have to do with extraterrestrials, magic, superstition, or astrology? I'm a catholic and I don't believe in that sort of stuff. This is a world of reason and having faith in G-d doesn't contradict that.

 

[Ornlu]

Another wild edgelord emerges! Are we averaging one per page?

 

[Chaplain]

Podcast: George Floyd and the Gospel

"In a first-of-its-kind episode, Darrell Harrison and Virgil “Omaha” Walker get behind their respective microphones for a no-holds-barred, completely impromptu, unscheduled, and unscripted (no notes) discussion about how believers in Christ should respond to events surrounding the death of Mr. George Floyd at the hands of police officers in Minnesota. Buckle up."

"Darrell B. Harrison serves as Dean of Social Media at Grace to You, the bible-teaching ministry of John MacArthur."

"Virgil L. Walker is the Discipleship Pastor at Westside Church in Omaha, Nebraska where he has served for 6 years."

 

[Chaplain]

Read the following quote before viewing the videos:

“And so the young adherents of the Great Awokening exhibit the zeal of the Great Awakening. Like early modern Christians, they punish heresy by banishing sinners from society or coercing them to public demonstrations of shame, and provide an avenue for redemption in the form of a thorough public confession of sin. “Social justice” theory requires the admission of white privilege in ways that are strikingly like the admission of original sin. A Christian is born again; an activist gets woke. To the belief in human progress unfolding through history — itself a remnant of Christian eschatology — it adds the Leninist twist of a cadre of heroes who jump-start the revolution.” (Atheist Andrew Sullivan, American’s New Religion)

"Following @cvaldary, @BenjaminABoyce, @Bret Weinstein and @SophiaLeeHyun work on the question. I'll save you the time in that I won't give you a "yes" or "no" answer but I think this is a time to stop and think about what is going on and what it all means. Do we still have the language and vocabulary we need to progress?" (6/3/20)

 

[Cutty Flam]

If God is Love, does that mean that love is spiritual? Like when you feel love in your brain when you're thinking, is that actually a state of being similar to God or is it a thought / a feeling of love?

I'm sort of confusing myself, but the question popped up in my mind. I know God is unfathomably greater than what we can experience here

And also, does God have wrath or does he exercise wrath? Or is that not a part of His being? How can God have wrath for His creations? Or do you believe, is it that wrath is held for those that wrong him spiritually on higher levels i.e. fallen angels?

 

[Ornlu]

If God is Love, does that mean that love is spiritual? Like when you feel love in your brain when you're thinking, is that actually a state of being similar to God or is it a thought / a feeling of love?

I'm sort of confusing myself, but the question popped up in my mind. I know God is unfathomably greater than what we can experience here

And also, does God have wrath or does he exercise wrath? Or is that not a part of His being? How can God have wrath for His creations? Or do you believe, is it that wrath is held for those that wrong him spiritually on higher levels i.e. fallen angels?

Those are very interesting questions! I'm not sure if we mortals would be able to answer something like that, honestly. There's probably snippets of Scripture that could be twisted and looked at sideways to try and answer that, but I'm doubtful if we would be able to find a definitive answer.

I have my own belief and opinion as to the nature of God, but it is only that; an opinion. I believe that, as depicted in Scripture, God is a being capable of great love, as well as great wrath. He absolutely shows wrath towards his own creations multiple times in early Scripture.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

If God is Love, does that mean that love is spiritual? Like when you feel love in your brain when you're thinking, is that actually a state of being similar to God or is it a thought / a feeling of love?

there is a lot of thought around this particularly in Greek Christian traditions. i believe you are referring to what they called agape.

Eros (/ˈɪərɒs/ or /ˈɛrɒs/; Ancient Greek: ἔρως érōs "love" or "desire") is one of the four ancient Greco-Christian terms which can be rendered into English as "love". The other three are storge, philia, and agape. Eros refers to "passionate love" or romantic love; storge to familial love; philia to friendship as a kind of love; and agape refers to "selfless love", or "charity" as it is translated in the Christian scriptures (from the Latin caritas, dearness).

Eros (concept) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And also, does God have wrath or does he exercise wrath? Or is that not a part of His being?

imo yes because if God is all, then wrath is part of God. He made us in His image, and we have wrathful tendencies. see the OT for many examples (notably Sodom and Gomorrah).

How can God have wrath for His creations?

you would have to know the mind of God to know this. again, God made us in his image, and therefor if we have wrath, then He does as well. the Bible details many Creations, showing that God himself struggles with doing the right thing. for instance there is the story of Noah and the Ark, wherein he destroys his creation with a great flood in an attempt to start fresh. He is aware of the suffering and misery, thus the doubt.

some may say "If God is perfect then how can he have any doubt?" i would respond, if He can never know doubt (a thing possessed by mere mortals) then He is far from perfect.

 

[Mr.Jackpots]

whats up everybody, new here. Thought I'd pop in and say hi to my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ

 

[Scotty W]

In cancel culture, a single mistake is perpetually unforgivable because it’s not simply a guilty act. Rather, the mistake defines the individual’s identity, turning them into a shameful person—someone who can be “canceled.” How Eastern! Juliet November summed up what used to be the differences between Western and Eastern cultures: In a Western framework, I would feel guilty because I have “done something bad”; in an Eastern honor-shame framework, I would be guilty because “I am bad” in society’s eyes. Becoming someone bad means that redemption doesn’t come by fixing the mistake. An apology isn’t enough.

I disagree.

While the weat is moving toward being a honor/shame culture, I don’t think that has necessarily come from the east- though perhaps there has been a small influence.

As I understand it, cultures have to put their sin somewhere. Either they put it outside or inside- shame culture or guilt culture, if you are not one, you are the other.

The west has a weird movement away from guilt. They don’t want guilt, so they attack free will. They don’t free will because that makes people responsible for their problems. They want to be able to blame some people for causing other people’s problems, so the oppressors are the only ones with free will- they can’t get away from their guilt.

 

[Chaplain]

I disagree.

While the weat is moving toward being a honor/shame culture, I don’t think that has necessarily come from the east- though perhaps there has been a small influence.

As I understand it, cultures have to put their sin somewhere. Either they put it outside or inside- shame culture or guilt culture, if you are not one, you are the other.

The west has a weird movement away from guilt. They don’t want guilt, so they attack free will. They don’t free will because that makes people responsible for their problems. They want to be able to blame some people for causing other people’s problems, so the oppressors are the only ones with free will- they can’t get away from their guilt.

Did you read the entire article?

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Can the American Gospel save America?

“Today, although Martin Luther King’s people may remain stranded in the wilderness, the Bible no longer structures the dread and the dreamings of Americans in the way that once it did. The book which for King had been a supreme inspiration has chiefly played a role in the current crisis as a prop held upside down by President Trump. Yet the tracks of Christian theology, as Nietzsche once complained, wind everywhere.”

God’s Word in Godless Times, or the Appearance of Godliness in Signaling Virtue

When a civil authority mercilessly ends the life of a person he is charged to serve and protect, the evil of his abusive, heartless, and brutal action is compounded. The outbreak of lawlessness in the wake of George Floyd’s death is also evil. Mayhem, brutal attacks, destruction of people’s livelihood, intimidation, violence, and murder have marked the protests of the last week. Attacks on police officers, breaking into private homes, looting, stealing, and blatantly breaking just laws have become almost commonplace.

Video: Race, Rage, Justice, George Floyd and the Gospel

"In this interview with Darrell Harrison and Virgil "Omaha" Walker from the Just Thinking Podcast, Pastors Costi Hinn, Dale Thackrah, and Jon Benzinger bring a biblical foundation to the current events happening in our world." (6/3/20)

5 Non-Black Americans React To George Floyd’s Murder

I’ve asked 10 Christians—5 black Americans and 5 non-black Americans—to share their reactions to George Floyd’s murder. Some people believe black Americans and non-black Americans—especially white Americans have entirely different reactions to injustices against George Floyd and black men.

Three Reasons Why Christians Should Reject #BlackLivesMatter

"Its organizational structure builds on the legacy of earlier reform campaigns, including the civil rights/black power movement, Pan Africanism, Africana womanism, the LGBT movement, and the Occupy Wall Street movement while using cyber activism to promote its agenda. Specifically, Black Lives Matter puts the feminist theory of “intersectionality” into action by calling for a united focus on issues of race, class, gender, nationality, sexuality, disability, and state-sponsored violence." (Herbert G. Ruffin II., Associate Professor and Department Chair. African American Studies)

Video: Ethnic Gnosticism | Voddie Baucham

In recent years we have a growing concern about “social justice.” What is meant by that phrase, however, varies widely among those who use and promote it. What is too often missing—even in the calls for “social justice” coming from Christian leaders—is a clear understanding of biblical justice. Justice exists because God is just and righteous. He is the One who defines justice and He has revealed what true justice is in the Bible.

JK Rowling, Cancel Culture, and the Gradual Demise of the West

“The progressive mantra is that Western liberalism is immoral with its tolerance of colonialism, invasion, racism, inequality, climate cowardice, sexism and patriarchy. While Australians are pragmatic and responsive to sensible changes in the liberal status quo, progressivism demands a new moral order that unnerves and divides the community. It is about power. It sees every issue in terms of a victim class and an oppressor class. It is more interested in power than solutions. It demands people change their values to fit its moral impositions and it is disgusted by how liberalism has tolerated so many reactionary views…”

Is Religion Evil?

"Now assume that there is no God, or immortality of the soul. Now tell me, why should I live righteously and do good deeds, if I am to die entirely on earth? . . . And if that is so, why shouldn't I (as long as I can rely on my cleverness and agility to avoid being caught by the law) cut another man's throat, rob and steal?"

Video: America in 2020



We Are Individuals, Not Victims

Seeing African Americans, or Muslims, or Jews, as part of victimized minority collectives is a toxic formulation that ensures that we are never treated fairly as individuals—and denies us the ability to exercise real power

The Gospel According to Xi (Wall Street Journal)

Beijing considers publishing official translations of holy texts like the Bible.

Tolerant Intolerance

When our grandparents spoke of tolerance as a virtue, they had something like that in mind. The word used to mean respecting people and treating them kindly even when we believe they are wrong. But the post-modern notion of tolerance means we must never regard anyone else's opinions as "wrong." Biblical tolerance is for people; post-modern tolerance is for ideas.

Grasping for the divine

The post-modern man may have forgotten his prayers, but he has not forgotten how to pray. When we watch protesters engage in a call and response creed with hands in the air, renouncing their white privilege and all its works, we are watching the ritual of a generation starved for liturgy.

Why I won’t ‘take the knee’

It's tempting to choose a quiet life and go along with the madness of crowds. But we should resist

What Does God Think About Guns in America? Author Interview.

Laws can contribute to our moral education. The law can also function to deter us from making some choices, even if our hearts remain unchanged. Laws can protect others from the harm we might do apart from their restraining power. The same justifications exist for guns. Of course, gun laws cannot unilaterally change the human heart. But they can make it more difficult for that fallen heart to express its evil intentions through the barrel of a gun. Laws can make it more difficult for people to kill people. And that’s a goal all Christians ought to share.

How Did Americans Lose Faith in Everything?

Our institutions lost the capacity to mold character and have become platforms for performance instead.

Structural Racism

My other strategy is to show that structural racism is a child of structural pride, and a sibling of the fraternal triplets, structural greed, structural fear, and structural lust. My assumption is that Bible-shaped people are going to resonate with the idea that pride, greed, lust, and fear are imbedded in social structures and institutions like entertainment, advertising, capitalist business processes, university tenure procedures, the practices of party politics, and more.

America in the Aftermath of George Floyd: Between Paganism and Christianity

Christianity is revolutionary, not evolutionary. The evolution of paganism, had it occurred, would have brought about novel forms of cathartic rage toward other peoples. Christianity declared that no matter what evolutionary “advance” paganism might bring, it could never adequately address the problem of man’s stain. Christianity was revolutionary because it declared that we must look elsewhere than toward others, with cathartic rage, to expiate our stains. That “elsewhere” is divine, not mortal. Only through Christ, the divine scapegoat, who “takes upon himself the sins of the world” (John 1:29), can man be cleansed.

Video: The Armor of God, Part 3 (Ephesians 6:18, 6/7/20)

"Prevailing Christian prayer is wonderfully comprehensive. It has four universals, indicated by the fourfold use of the word ‘all’. We are to pray at all times (both regularly and constantly), with all prayer and supplication (for it takes many and varied forms), with all perseverance (because we need like good soldiers to keep alert, and neither give up nor fall asleep), making supplication for all the saints (since the unity of God’s new society, which has been the preoccupation of this whole letter, must be reflected in our prayers)." (Theologian John Stott)

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Video: Q&A with Darrell Harrison & Virgil Walker (6/7/20)

A Biblical Response to the Death of Mr. George Floyd

Video: Atheist Douglas Murray: 'UK protests reminiscent of Middle East after a revolution' (6/8/20)

Douglas Murray told Julia Hartley-Brewer that everyone he has heard from is united in being horrified at the manger in which George Floyd was killed by a policeman. However, he said the death of one man in Minnesota “is not a reason for people to turn out in their thousands in cities across the world”.

Neil Shenvi – Apologetics

Don't throw around terms like "white privilege," "white fragility," and "intersectionality" without understanding the deeply unbiblical ideology in which they're embedded.

Can we weep with those who weep?

The error from the right will be a refusal to acknowledge any racial disparities in encounters with police and how those disparities shape a community’s despairing attitudes toward law enforcement...The error from the left includes ideologies like Critical Race Theory and intersectionality that are at odds with the gospel and that frame many people’s thinking about these events. These ideologies reflect materialistic worldviews that view all of life through the prism of racial identity and power relations.

George Floyd and Me

...the prophet Jeremiah said some things that resonate with me as I process this: “I remember my affliction and my wandering, the bitterness and the gall. I well remember them, and my soul is downcast within me” (Lam. 3:20). I love that the prophet doesn’t minimize the pain or act like it isn’t real. There are three whole chapters of “bitterness and gall”—and no trite clichés wrapped in theological terms. Jeremiah acknowledges how much it hurts and, as a result, his soul is downcast. Too often when people are hurting, we can play the role of Job’s friends, saying things that may be theologically true while adding to our suffering friend’s pain. One of the most hurtful things we can do is to make mourners justify their pain.

Video: Whole Lotta Shakin' . . . - Jeremiah 48:10-11 (6/7/20)

"The one who does the Lord’s business deceitfully is cursed, and the one who withholds his sword from bloodshed is cursed. Moab has been left quiet since his youth, settled like wine on its dregs. He hasn’t been poured from one container to another or gone into exile. So his taste has remained the same, and his aroma hasn’t changed."

The Golden Triangle of Freedom

...sustainable freedom depends on the character of the rulers and the ruled alike, and on the vital trust between them—both of which are far more than a matter of law. The Constitution, which is the foundational law of the land, should be supported and sustained by the faith, character and virtue of the entire citizenry, which comprises its moral constitution, or habits of the heart. Together with the Constitution, these habits of the heart are the real, complete and essential bulwark of American liberty. A republic grounded only in a consensus forged of calculation and competing self-interests can never last.

 

[Cutty Flam]

Was reading some Revelations last night. I think chapter 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12. It's so strange how these events will take place...it's all very outlandish imo when God's angeles and those close to his throne are mentioned

In the bible, not much is said about them. They're very stoic and reserved and powerful obviously. Guess that's all we need to know. But the bit about the locusts and all that, that was really weird. So they will come out of the pit (hell?) and they will be attacking men on God's behalf, or on the ruler of the pit's orders? Pretty crazy how it essentially said that men will be wishing for death in those 5 months but death will not come. Abaddon was the angel's name, who will bring the locusts

 

[Cutty Flam]

Are those events actually going to take place as they do in the bible? They're so out of the ordinary. And angels themselves are interesting. Are they spirits?

 

[Cutty Flam]

Revelations chapter 14 is intense

 

[Cutty Flam]

This entire book is so beyond my comprehension. Revelations is probably the toughest book in the entire bible to understand I am guessing?

In the end, the beast uses something in one’s hand or forehead? I’ve heard people speak of a microchip. Is that really the final plan of the beast? It makes sense. Something to control the very organ that allows us to be as God wanted us to be. Once the beast succeeds in tricking many to give up free thought it would make sense that God would be wrathful, furious

But the question I am uncertain of, and that I think I may never understand, is how there can be an eternal Hell for anything is God is a God of mercy and forgiving. How could a place like that exist forever, for souls that made mistakes in such a trivial period of time in the grand scheme of things? Even the worst enemies of mankind, as terrible as they were / are, do they really deserve eternal, unfathomable levels of suffering for maybe a decade, two, maybe threes or four max of ruling with an iron fist? Maybe. I cannot judge because I am unfit to. But it seems based on scripture that God sees fit to essentially disown that spirit, who went wholly against what He teaches and forever lets that spirit suffer in the pit?

But then, I thought God and his angels will fight the beast, Nd fallen angels in the end? Will God and his army defeat all or will this war between good and evil never cease? How are the two sides comparable in terms of power? Surely evil is outnumbered, right? All these questions just flowing through my mind

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

This entire book is so beyond my comprehension. Revelations is probably the toughest book in the entire bible to understand I am guessing?

In the end, the beast uses something in one’s hand or forehead? I’ve heard people speak of a microchip. Is that really the final plan of the beast? It makes sense. Something to control the very organ that allows us to be as God wanted us to be. Once the beast succeeds in tricking many to give up free thought it would make sense that God would be wrathful, furious

It's a puzzling book and it even includes bonus-points at the beginning because it knows it is confusing:

Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it,

Christians have been attempting to identify what the mark of the beast is for a very long time. Lots of emphasis is placed on 666 and the location of the mark (hand, head). Setting aside the interpretations of that, it also warns us that the mark will be necessary to buy or sell, and that the apocalyptic Beast is the one who gives it out. In order for anything to qualify as "the mark of the beast", therefore, it must satisfy those requirements.

I haven't yet seen any mark that one must take on the hand or head to buy or sell, unless you want to get figurative and claim that the "mark" isn't a visible mark at all, but is an illustration that you are lost if everything you do with your hands and everything your mind dwells on has to do with the Beast's system and the buying/selling of goods.

I don't expect this will answer all your questions but hopefully it answers some.

But the question I am uncertain of, and that I think I may never understand, is how there can be an eternal Hell for anything is God is a God of mercy and forgiving.

Tough question, and a good question.

What is hell, and what happens when you get there? What role does hell and the Final Judgment play here? The Roman catholic concept of 'purgatory' has been blended in with the concept of hell. The only aspect of Hell's description that matters is that we are separated from God and are unable to "cross over" to Him. Hell was created for the demons and fallen angels (Matt 25:41), not specifically for mankind. Hell is where many of the rebellious angels are currently bound, waiting for judgment (Jude 1:6).

Another thing I want to add: God is a God of mercy and forgiving, but He is also a God of granting justice and vengeance. Our own mortal sense of "right" and "wrong" are incomplete so the idea of a Final Judgment is foreign to us. But what if I asked you if we should send this hypothetical serial child-rapist to hell, someone who grins and does not repent and who is eager to do it again if they had the chance? The paradox of christianity is that God has mercy on this person's soul if they are penitent, but otherwise their behavior needs to be addressed at the judgment for the final balancing of the tally.

How could a place like that exist forever, for souls that made mistakes in such a trivial period of time in the grand scheme of things? Even the worst enemies of mankind, as terrible as they were / are, do they really deserve eternal, unfathomable levels of suffering for maybe a decade, two, maybe threes or four max of ruling with an iron fist? Maybe. I cannot judge because I am unfit to. But it seems based on scripture that God sees fit to essentially disown that spirit, who went wholly against what He teaches and forever lets that spirit suffer in the pit?

Theology on hell is full of opinions so the best I can do is give you my own opinion. I wouldn't have enough time to even summarize all the major theological and philosophical standpoints on the question of "eternal punishment for temporal sins".

We are all in a fallen state. "Sin" is not just naughty behavior. It replaced our default mode of cognition with a fallen one. The original intent (explained back in Genesis) was for mankind to live on the earth (and beyond into the universe) working as the image-bearers of the creator. It was a role not even angels (message-bearers) get to serve. But then the snake and the apple and sin and all that.

So all of this drama is intended to restore us back to that original pre-fall state: perfect harmony with God and creation, with perfect understanding of what purpose we must carry out in the physical world.

However, what if you have individuals who use this power of creation to instead manipulate and destroy? Should they be a part of the universal restoration? Should they be "on the team" if they're going to sow strife? Avoiding hell and escaping judgment is a nice goal in and of itself, but from God's perspective He is sorting the sheep from the goats. He isn't trying to be cruel to people who were naughty, he is trying to sort out people who won't be able to participate in the new kingdom. From a divine perspective, that makes sense to me.

Remember that God operates on the principle of "faithful with little, faithful with much" and this is echoed throughout the old and new testaments. So if you can't be faithful with a few decades of sentience, how can you be trusted with tens of thousands of millennia of sentience, or an eternity of sentience?

But then, I thought God and his angels will fight the beast, Nd fallen angels in the end? Will God and his army defeat all or will this war between good and evil never cease? How are the two sides comparable in terms of power? Surely evil is outnumbered, right? All these questions just flowing through my mind

The final judgment isn't final unless it's final. There will be cultural / social battles but if the Bible truly predicts how it all shakes down, then we will eventually get a cutoff point.The struggle will end and God will mete out justice. Then the great universal work gets to resume with a clean slate and a memory of the fallen state to preserve us from repeating it.

More or less.

 

[Self]

But then the snake and the apple and sin and all that.

I never quite understood that part.
Are we talking about an actual apple and an actual snake or metaphorically? And why did the snake choose Eve and not Adam?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I never quite understood that part.
Are we talking about an actual apple and an actual snake or metaphorically? And why did the snake choose Eve and not Adam?

The story is drenched in allegory. It describes a historical event taking place between a few people, but it also symbolizes some core truths about the human condition that extend beyond the characters in the story.

An actual apple? No, probably not an actual apple, something more like a pomegranate or even a mushroom.
An actual snake? Taking the story at face value, the snake in the story was legged and was cursed to crawl on his belly. It wasn't a serpent as we would think of it.

Why did the snake choose Eve? Eve was hanging around the tree. Eve had already been deceived by Adam (arguably)* and was looking at the fruit. It's also an allegory for temptation and how it draws you in and "speaks" to you craftily.

*reading between the lines, God creates Adam and gives Adam the rules for the Tree of Good and Evil: thou shall not eat from it, or you shall surely die. Eve wasn't there. Adam conveyed the instructions to her, logically, because she repeats to the serpent: You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die. But that last bit stating "and you must not touch it" is not what is recorded just a few verses earlier. This implies that Adam added that extra rule when telling Eve the rules that God told to him.

There are some christians who suggest that Original Sin was not just the bite of the apple but the multifaceted series of behaviors that led to the Fall: Adam adds his own additional rules to God's original rule, Eve falls into temptation and shares it with Adam who was with her and therefore heard some or all of this, and definitely knew what type of fruit he was eating. Then they hid themselves and wouldn't be honest about their choice when confronted on it.

 

[Kenpachii]

Thanks for sharing this video as it goes to reinforce the points I made earlier. I've been all over the world and spent the formative years of my life in poorer parts of the world and what this man said is 100% true.

When I look at the church and its structure in the western world, it somewhat of a farce tbh. Often comical in nature as its so far removed from the structure and practices demonstrated in the Bible. Thats not to say other areas of the world lack problems with their structure but, the church in North America is so far removed from the teachings of the Bible that it has turned into a business. It reminds me of the verse Matthew 21 12-13 which says "12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’[b]”

The way the church in the west has become one with the world is shocking. Instead of preaching holiness, righteousness, love, we're busy seeing prosperity gospel, excessive expenditures, private jets, and the push towards the acquisition of material things and not things of the spirit.

The bible tells us in 1 John 2:15-17 "Do not love this world nor the things it offers you, for when you love the world, you do not have the love of the Father in you. For the world offers only a craving for physical pleasure, a craving for everything we see, and pride in our achievements and possessions. These are not from the Father, but are from this world. And this world is fading away, along with everything that people crave. But anyone who does what pleases God will live forever."

All of this is to say that those who claim to be of Christ bear the fruits of christ. As it says in John 15 5-8 "5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples."

This is not to say that I'm perfect as I have my struggles with as does everyone. Its just something I've noticed. A Christian must bear the fruits of Christ. Unbelievers can see those fruits yet many of us who claim to be Christians seem to have forgotten what it means to be a Christian.

"west" more like america.

 

[Teslerum]

yes, im not a fan of bashing others for misunderstanding. nobody has the secret code that unlocks the Bible and understands the ultimate mystery of God. that is pretty silly imo. it's nice to talk about the meaning of the texts themselves. once politics gets mixed up in ANYTHING then it will be distorted and propagandized and perverted. imo what most people know as Christianity is a McDonald's or Walmart corporate version of it, mostly misrepresented by an anti-Christian media that openly hates the culture.

Pretty much. It also often doesn't help to over complicate things, because you end up trying to impose yourself on the scripture. Additionally lots of people that have a very close relationship to god and the scripture constantly make mistakes (by their own admission) and have to readjust themselves before falling onto a dangerous path/way of thinking. Being self-critical and have one or two bouts in life with the lord is normal. So, don't fret.

In general the most important bits in how to build a relationship, maintain it and act accordingly is actually laid out pretty straightforward in the gospel.

 

[Self]

Additionally lots of people that have a very close relationship to god and the scripture

I really dislike that term - 'close relationship.'

I know quite a lot of believers who argue they have a very close relationship with God (some can even feel his presence), but behave nothing like the scriptures suggest/recommend/command.

I don't even comprehend what they mean by that term, but I sure can discriminate between religious behavior and non-religious behavior.

 

[Teslerum]

I really dislike that term - 'close relationship.'

I know quite a lot of believers who argue they have a very close relationship with God (can even feel his presence), but behave nothing like the scriptures suggest/recommend/command.

I don't even comprehend what they mean by that term, but I sure can discriminate between religious behavior and non-religious behavior.

You're misunderstanding me.

When I use the term it's exactly what I mean. (As in not how they describe themselves, but how I'd describe them)

I know what you mean and trust me I've had plenty of confrontations with these kinds of people. As an example in the catholic church, you can find them sucking up to people, robbing everywhere (and in general throwing themselves to the ground whenever they hear the slightest peep out of a priests mouth and in general are fucking useless when it comes to actually contributing (Apart from what they deem to be right). I could rant for a week and wouldn't be done, so I'll just stop.

Edit: Also if you meet ANYONE that gloats about their relationship with god you can be absolutely sure it's not true.

 

[Ornlu]

Edit: Also in if you meet ANYONE that gloats about their relationship with god you can be absolutely sure it's not true.

I'll second that!

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Video: There's a Better Version of Yourself on the Other Side of Fear

The world is a cancel culture, Christianity is a compassion culture

Video: Thoughts on the Science Shutdown

"Part of being an equal is 'You're wrong.' If I can't tell you you're wrong, you're not my equal. And I absolutely believe that you are wrong. And I think that you're my equal. So I'm gonna tell you."

Video: The End of Racism or the End of Law? The Kitchen Table

The Kitchen Table is where Steve and I sit down and chat for about 8 minutes on a pressing issue of the day – it is designed for Christians and non-Christians alike….Feel free to watch, pass on, comment, subscribe, suggest topics etc. This week we just had to do the madness of crowds engulfing the Western World…We look at the rule of law, should we have police and the basis for law in Christianity…….Enjoy!

Podcast: Abdu Murray – Ravi Zacharias and Seeing Jesus from the East

He joins me today to talk about the legacy of Ravi Zacharias and about a recently released book he coauthored with Ravi titled Seeing Jesus from the East: A Fresh Look at History's Most influential Figure.

Does Systemic Racism Exist?

Systemic racism theory essentially demands groups to prove they’re not systemically racist—instead of demanding social justice proponents to prove the legitimacy of their accusations.

Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites

DNA analysis, from bodies found at several sites, explains more than half of ancestry

Imagine no police force

The complete removal of a police force is exactly the kind of thing John Lennon (who was tragically shot dead in 1980) would have been behind

Notflix

The university cancel culture – all so high brow and never likely to make it to mainstream of course – has now made it to streaming services. Why? Because of course every highbrow disastrous idea makes it downstream. We ignored those loopy lecturers at university and the awakening (soon to be woke) students who now occupy the cultural halls of the world.

It's All About Woke Chaos and Naked Power

Thus, we hear messages that are obviously in direct conflict with one another. And, we are told, our inability to square those messages means that we must listen to the woke priesthood that can untangle these Gordian knots.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

Are those events actually going to take place as they do in the bible? They're so out of the ordinary. And angels themselves are interesting. Are they spirits?

First off the Bible is not meant to be taken literally. This is not to say it is not true or cannot reveal truth, but that the truths it tries to communicate are ultimately beyond human understanding. It uses terminology that humans understand but the phenomenon it describes exist on a higher plane. A literal reading gives an incomplete meaning, especially when the text itself has been retranslated and condensed over millennia.

Secondly the Book of Revelation is a work of prophecy, it is a personal revelation. Imo more an expression of personal spiritual truth than a prediction of the future. Throughout the Bible prophets receive revelation that changes them or gives them a spiritual insight. To the third party we may not fully understand the meaning of God appearing as a burning bush to Moses, and indeed the literal meaning seems incomprehensible to the non prophetic. Whether a bush was really burning is beside the point of what that symbol means for Moses’s personal received prophecy.

However understanding is not beyond our grasp there are learned men who have studied prophetic symbolism in these texts that provide some insight. Revelations itself has been considered the most esoteric and mysterious work of all the Biblical prophecies. Wise men have studied it for thousands of years without piercing the veil.

Ultimately imo it is a personal revelation for John. We are all trying to figure it out while he is the one who had the transformative spiritual experience. What these symbols mean to us vs what they meant to him is at the root of the mystery.

 

[Teslerum]

I predicted the Australian version of the blessing to go all out, but I'm still taken aback a bit.

 

[Cutty Flam]

To be living in Heaven and reigning in heaven with God where Love is perfected, to coming down to Earth with us when times were barbaric and hellish, and living a lifetime here and showing us the way when Jesus could have been with the Lord our God in a much better position, that in itself is true love. How many of us would even go from living the best life imaginable here on Earth to going to one of the most hostile places on Earth to reach out and show a community how to live properly and risk our very life—all going towards the welfare of the others around you, those same people will persecute you and kill you. Jesus has bravery beyond measure. I don’t even care how full his understanding and omnipotence of everything is; to live a life here on Earth and relate with us and suffer through this same existence speaks an eternal love. He truly cares for even the smallest of the creation. To show us that there is more to life than we know. And that all is possible. Healing is possible through Him. These are very touching lessons. Often times I’ll reflect on the love God and His Son have and give to us and often I am moved to tears. It is greater than my mind alone could ever describe, it’s evident truth for everybody to hopefully one day be blessed enough to realize

The worst of this world comes from those who do not recognize and live by truth and that is the true transgression of man. If we all lived in unity according to God’s commandments, and his teachings, who can say that this world would not be on its way to better progress? We are not progressing because we are not living with love towards one another. Hatred only destroys from within and it can lead to the destruction of others. Love is the only force that can sustain a life

I’ve seen it in my life so many times before. From so many different people and animals. It’s there and it surely exists; the very force of God is within us. It is beautiful beyond measure and moving to the core. Merely trying to understand God’s depth in His love for us, on a very primitive level that my brain will allow for is too much for me to handle. I know it is too great. It is too great even for me to slightly understand. Even life gifted to us here on such a perilous planet filled with iniquity and suffering is something I feel greatly indebted to God for. This world could be paradise if God was fully realized and followed by all somehow. We have intelligence to survive nature yet the greatest obstacle here on this planet is ourselves. God’s will can only be realized by following God’s ways

Thanks to anybody who read. Thinking deeply but that rant came from the heart and my intuition I felt mainly. Trying to piece things together and get my mind clear and focused towards finding or at least seeking the truth. I’ve been trying to read more of the bible and think deeply on important matters. But there are so many distractions getting in the way; it’s tough to even make consistent progress in any matter of life these days

Sorry for the rant / brainstorm

On a more constructive note, what book of the bible should I read next? Which will teach me the most profound lessons? Which book will teach me how to help myself and others the most? The most beneficial book that I should consider reading maybe above all others if there were a way to discern which one could provide the most teachings to live by

 

[Scotty W]

This entire book is so beyond my comprehension. Revelations is probably the toughest book in the entire bible to understand I am guessing?

Someone once said that “Revelation either finds you mad or leaves you so.”

When you read a difficult text, you have to fight through misunderstanding. This is frequently the literal level. ManyPeople never move past this level. All I can suggest is that you think what you think, but allow yourself to move through misunderstanding. Allow the text to humble your understanding.

Nobody understands this book or how to interpret it. All the interpretations out there that try to interpret it literally are interesting as are the allegorical interpretations- but these are only steps, steps on which many people trip. Just remember that you can go further.

 

[Chaplain]

New Resources:

Video: Who’s to Blame for the Riots?

...we’ve got a society basically where the conscience is misinformed. We’ve got a society basically where people have quieted their own conscience by deciding that they’re better than their conscience says they are. We’ve got a society of people raised without the discipline, the love, the stability of a home. And now they’re running around in this country in all directions, and it’s left to the police to try to make some sanity out of this chaos. These are people that have evil hearts to the core. We all do. But they haven’t been restrained by the gospel, the transforming power of Christ.

Video: Grace, Justice, & Mercy: An Evening with Bryan Stevenson & Rev. Tim Keller

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Is There Still Room for Debate?

No country can be so reduced to one single prism and damned because of it. American society has far more complexity and history has far more contingency than can be jammed into this rubric. No racial group is homogeneous, and every individual has agency. No one is entirely a victim or entirely privileged. And we are not defined by black and white any longer; we are home to every race and ethnicity, from Asia through Africa to Europe and South America.

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“Jesus experienced the reality of state-sponsored terror. That is why the black Christian has always felt a particular kinship with this crucified king from an oppressed ethnic group. The cross helps us make sense of the lynching tree.”

 

[Cutty Flam]

Someone once said that “Revelation either finds you mad or leaves you so.”

When you read a difficult text, you have to fight through misunderstanding. This is frequently the literal level. ManyPeople never move past this level. All I can suggest is that you think what you think, but allow yourself to move through misunderstanding. Allow the text to humble your understanding.

Nobody understands this book or how to interpret it. All the interpretations out there that try to interpret it literally are interesting as are the allegorical interpretations- but these are only steps, steps on which many people trip. Just remember that you can go further.

Very wise words, Scotty

Thanks for the guidance. I was thinking about reading the Book of Matthew next. I think Revelations has brought me to new understanding, but it will definitely be a book I will need to read several times before I can see full. I wonder how many people assumed the prophecies would take place within their lifetime?

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

To be living in Heaven and reigning in heaven with God where Love is perfected, to coming down to Earth with us when times were barbaric and hellish, and living a lifetime here and showing us the way when Jesus could have been with the Lord our God in a much better position, that in itself is true love. How many of us would even go from living the best life imaginable here on Earth to going to one of the most hostile places on Earth to reach out and show a community how to live properly and risk our very life—all going towards the welfare of the others around you, those same people will persecute you and kill you. Jesus has bravery beyond measure. I don’t even care how full his understanding and omnipotence of everything is; to live a life here on Earth and relate with us and suffer through this same existence speaks an eternal love. He truly cares for even the smallest of the creation. To show us that there is more to life than we know. And that all is possible. Healing is possible through Him. These are very touching lessons. Often times I’ll reflect on the love God and His Son have and give to us and often I am moved to tears. It is greater than my mind alone could ever describe, it’s evident truth for everybody to hopefully one day be blessed enough to realize

The worst of this world comes from those who do not recognize and live by truth and that is the true transgression of man. If we all lived in unity according to God’s commandments, and his teachings, who can say that this world would not be on its way to better progress? We are not progressing because we are not living with love towards one another. Hatred only destroys from within and it can lead to the destruction of others. Love is the only force that can sustain a life

I’ve seen it in my life so many times before. From so many different people and animals. It’s there and it surely exists; the very force of God is within us. It is beautiful beyond measure and moving to the core. Merely trying to understand God’s depth in His love for us, on a very primitive level that my brain will allow for is too much for me to handle. I know it is too great. It is too great even for me to slightly understand. Even life gifted to us here on such a perilous planet filled with iniquity and suffering is something I feel greatly indebted to God for. This world could be paradise if God was fully realized and followed by all somehow. We have intelligence to survive nature yet the greatest obstacle here on this planet is ourselves. God’s will can only be realized by following God’s ways

Thanks to anybody who read. Thinking deeply but that rant came from the heart and my intuition I felt mainly. Trying to piece things together and get my mind clear and focused towards finding or at least seeking the truth. I’ve been trying to read more of the bible and think deeply on important matters. But there are so many distractions getting in the way; it’s tough to even make consistent progress in any matter of life these days

Sorry for the rant / brainstorm

On a more constructive note, what book of the bible should I read next? Which will teach me the most profound lessons? Which book will teach me how to help myself and others the most? The most beneficial book that I should consider reading maybe above all others if there were a way to discern which one could provide the most teachings to live by

I appreciate you writing it out and sharing your heart on the topic.

I think one of the gospels is a good pick. How about the book of Luke? Jesus' teachings and parables are the essence of the christian walk.

Another solid habit I picked up as a kid is reading the proverb of the day. 31 chapters in proverbs. Up to 31 calendar days in a month. Read the chapter matching the day you're on. After a few months (and a few repeated chapters) you begin to appreciate the wisdom in that book. Definitely a lot of teachings to live by in Proverbs.

 

[Cutty Flam]

I appreciate you writing it out and sharing your heart on the topic.

I think one of the gospels is a good pick. How about the book of Luke? Jesus' teachings and parables are the essence of the christian walk.

Another solid habit I picked up as a kid is reading the proverb of the day. 31 chapters in proverbs. Up to 31 calendar days in a month. Read the chapter matching the day you're on. After a few months (and a few repeated chapters) you begin to appreciate the wisdom in that book. Definitely a lot of teachings to live by in Proverbs.

Thanks bruh bruh, gonna read Luke instead. Proverbs have always been the most interesting for me. I always have read them consistently since I found out about them around age 19 or 20 0r so. They really help immensely in life in my experiences

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Thanks bruh bruh, gonna read Luke instead. Proverbs have always been the most interesting for me. I always have read them consistently since I found out about them around age 19 or 20 0r so. They really help immensely in life in my experiences

That's great to hear you have already been reading then. I've dodged a lot of bullets by remembering lessons from proverbs, for sure.

 

[Cutty Flam]

DunDunDunpachi Luke chapter 1 is a good starting point. Sort of confusing though

Gabriel = Angel sent by God to tell certain mothers that they will conceive a child that will fulfill prophecy. Mary will have Jesus thanks to the Holy Ghost’s ways and I think another woman will give birth to John? Or is John Jesus’s brother or cousin? And Zacharias is a random priest or is he related to Jesus in some way as well?

I’ll have to re-read it. Was somewhat tired during. And I thought it was crazy that John as a baby praised God as his first words spoken right after birth. That was interesting. Was John born as Jesus was but his role was purely as a human and he is just favored by God; not of Heaven like Jesus is of Heaven?

I guess a simpler wag of putting it is: Is John divine like Jesus or is he just a favored human being by God, sort of like how Mary is favored by God