-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
DEI in gaming flopping bad or here now to stay??
- Thread starter GigaBowser
- Start date
- Drama Business Analysis
yurinka
Member
In big publishers pretty likely it will stop soon after investors of these companies like Blackrock and Vanguard stop requiring it to all the companies where they have investments.
There are some small investors who also only invest on woke stuff or in women or LGTB leaded small studios. I assume some of them were funded by USAID or related, these should stop soon once shut down by Musk. Other ones are also funded by other people like Soros / Open Society Foundation & related NGOs, these would continue.
Last edited:
Chittagong
Gold Member
The era of virtue signalling videogames with non-binary leads with empowered undercuts, and character selections with Type A and B instead of Male / Female is surely ending. Most people will have tolerated, and some quietly detested that shit.
We won’t see the impact until 2030 however, given the long development cycles of games. There is a whole pipeline of shit we still need to weed through before the based era.
We won’t see the impact until 2030 however, given the long development cycles of games. There is a whole pipeline of shit we still need to weed through before the based era.
Wildebeest
Member
It was a gaming trend that peaked about a decade ago. The fact that people are all still obsessed with it just shows how little else new they have going on. I don't think it is something that will ever go away from gaming. It seems like there are other things that will never really go away like open world, battle royale, "narrative" games with pretty much nothing else going on, indie games that desperately try to grab people with NES nostalgia. Trends that might go away are things like VR because the growth is flat lining, and it is not a free technology to fund. But putting a bunch of fat lesbians in your game is basically free and can maybe grab some attention, when attention is more valuable than the precious metals in your stolen catalytic converter.
Gojiira
Member
Until society as a whole recognises the various mental illnesses that the Woke mobs possess as just that Mental Illness and not a ‘protected’ status then at best all that will happen is DEI etc will go quiet, hibernate, until it finds some other cause, some other loophole or whatever to exploit.
RodriGames40
Member
I love how this thread mostly seems to completely ignore recent developments, lmfao. The fact that this was never organic suggests that once the funding would be pulled out, this would all stop soon enough. Subtle kinds of woke will go on, but the most outrageous shit is more than over.
samoilaaa
Member
ive said it and i will say it again
all these people ( including some on this forum too ) that say they hate woke/DEI in game are lying
they hate games that are bad and have woke elements , as long as the game is good ( Baldur's gate 3 , Cyberpunk , Spider man 2 , The last of us 2 , Hogwarts Legacy ) people will buy it , they dont care that its woke
If veilguard had good story , good progression system , good combat people would have loved it , it didnt flop because you had to do 10 push ups for using the wrong pronoun
Thats why Woke / DEI will never leave and is here to stay , because there are many people who buy games that have it
all these people ( including some on this forum too ) that say they hate woke/DEI in game are lying
they hate games that are bad and have woke elements , as long as the game is good ( Baldur's gate 3 , Cyberpunk , Spider man 2 , The last of us 2 , Hogwarts Legacy ) people will buy it , they dont care that its woke
If veilguard had good story , good progression system , good combat people would have loved it , it didnt flop because you had to do 10 push ups for using the wrong pronoun
Thats why Woke / DEI will never leave and is here to stay , because there are many people who buy games that have it
Wildebeest
Member
They watch grifter YouTubers who would make 5 videos a day looking for new "woke" things for people to get angry at. Is your cat woke? Is that rock over there woke now? Really, the main difference it makes to gaming is that people these days are just glued to things like TikTok feeds and don't really care that much about playing new games, and "anti woke" rage baiting is just one of the targeted flavours of distraction amongst many.
DirtInUrEye
Member
I think players will ultimately make DEI fiscally unviable and that'll be the only reason why it eventually goes away.
ReyBrujo
Member
DEI is here to stay. Society always moves to the progressive side (just 200 years ago slavery was fine in US, just 70 years ago black people couldn't sit down in the bus with white people, just 60 years ago black people couldn't study at university, and abortion and cannabis use were illegal in every state) because people within the society want more freedom. Right now one would think it was silly for those white bus passengers to ask that black woman to give up her seat, in thirty or forty years people will think it was silly to be against DEI and would consider those who are against it retrogrades. It might come in smaller doses but eventually character creation screen will have as many options for gender, belly size and hair color as right now there are for weapons.
Generic
Member
Will stay but devs will be more subtle about it.
Japanese games have DEI, especially Capcom and Square.
Even Stellar Blade have some DEI (clearly Sony influence)
Japanese games have DEI, especially Capcom and Square.
Even Stellar Blade have some DEI (clearly Sony influence)
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Wrong. Slavery was repeated banned in human history. For most of human history skin colour was not relevant as much as which family clan you are with, and coffee was once banned but opium wasn't. Your narrative that things go left is false and based on false history.
In the end the majority wins. No matter what fringe wants control, they will lose.
Last edited:
Madflavor
Member
It’s here to stay but it’s weakening its chokehold on our society. Given the length of development time for games these days I think it’s going to be a couple more years before we start to see more positive changes take effect.
Thankfully that does seem to be happening. 2024 was a disastrous year for Western Games. Even if you look at these past few years, the majority of financially and critically successful games came from the East. The West has lost its dominance of the gaming industry, and Japan has made a huge comeback. Plus now we have Korea and China entering the fray, and have come out swinging. It’s not just that Asian developed games are mostly DEI free, but they’re also just better games. They play better, look better, and they understand the importance of fun, colorful, and attractive characters.
The West have got to start reading the room and adapt quickly. The economy is not getting better and will potentially get worse. Both hardcore and casual gamers are going to be more careful about what they spend their $70 on. They’ll be turning to F2P games like Marvel Rivals, and only spending full price on a game they really really want. For many folks, they’re going to be more sensitive to red flags than they used to be. The West have got to cool it with the identity politics.
Thankfully that does seem to be happening. 2024 was a disastrous year for Western Games. Even if you look at these past few years, the majority of financially and critically successful games came from the East. The West has lost its dominance of the gaming industry, and Japan has made a huge comeback. Plus now we have Korea and China entering the fray, and have come out swinging. It’s not just that Asian developed games are mostly DEI free, but they’re also just better games. They play better, look better, and they understand the importance of fun, colorful, and attractive characters.
The West have got to start reading the room and adapt quickly. The economy is not getting better and will potentially get worse. Both hardcore and casual gamers are going to be more careful about what they spend their $70 on. They’ll be turning to F2P games like Marvel Rivals, and only spending full price on a game they really really want. For many folks, they’re going to be more sensitive to red flags than they used to be. The West have got to cool it with the identity politics.
Pandawan
Member
True. Meanwhile in Japan:biggest porblem is devs now dei blue hair make crud games nort like jarpanese mens and carmack
before
after
Last edited:
ReyBrujo
Member
It's always hard to be in the midst of the changes and by the time it finishes happening people don't even care anymore. Majority, eventually, doesn't care anymore which is when changes occur.
DirtInUrEye
Member
I disagree w
It's quite simple really: don't shove it down players throats and make the game be all about it, at least if you're targeting mainstream players. It's fine for a dev to want to make a game all about a mixed race lesbian from Cambodia, but don't expect it to massively appeal to players of so-called triple-A stuff. It isn't rocket science. Films have a category known as art house for a reason.
Last edited:
Humdinger
Gold Member
I think it's here to stay, not just because of the "powers that be" argument that others have mentioned, but because academia is full of this stuff. Colleges will continue to put out graduates by the millions with their heads full of this ideology. Some of them will then go on to activism, videogame writing or journalism.
Hopefully it will take a step back, though, because of the financial consequences.
Hopefully it will take a step back, though, because of the financial consequences.
samoilaaa
Member
yeah most writers/devs have their head filled with crap since school
there was a thread about a student that leaked one of the classes in which students were taught that Cloud from FF is designed as a transgender and all that crap , maybe a miracle happens and it goes away since there will be a lack of funding but i doubt it
DeltaPolarBear
Member
People don't change what they like. Fringe is fringe because they refuse to change themseleve to match the majority, but they didn't realize the reverse is true too. You can't force a gay person to be straight, but it also doesn't work the other way around. I have no idea why the fringe wants to believe they can magically mind control people into enjoying what they don't like.
More importantly, you think you can make people PAY MONEY to buy something they don't enjoy. This only works for women, not men. I know women have confessed to buying and reading Fifty shades of grey or the Twightlight series because they wanted to fit in with their social circles. But these women don't understand that men don't work like that.
Men are NOT shamed into buying shit. You can try, it doesn't work. Call men names if you want, it wouldn't make them buy games that they hate. I don't know why that trick works on women and I don't really care. What matters is that it doesn't work on men. And we see it now how men said NO.
Last edited:
Sebastian1295
Member
Legitimately can't tell what you're even asking because this entire post is rubbish and incoherent.
Last edited:
dolabla
Member
I think there will still be games (probably indies) that still try to push their dei/woke agendas, but they will more than likely flop hard cause society (at least in America) is swinging hard right now. You have Google and loads of other companies getting rid of dei. This Super Bowl is already bringing commercials back with women in bikinis like it used to be, lol. Things seem to be going back to how it was in the 90's and 2000's. Hopefully the gaming quality can match those levels during that time period as well.
Last edited:
rabbity-thing
Member
DEI doesn't mean anything anymore. It's now simply a buzz word that is meant to trigger conservative fears of the other.
Don't like something? Just cry DEI and blame all the diverse people. Assume they're incompetent. Assume they can't do their jobs.
If you're wondering if it will stick around, of course it will. When I was younger, it was hating on affirmative action hires. Or kids that got accepted to college cause they were minorities.
Same fear mongering.
Whatever you thought your arguments about DEI were, they are no longer worth your time. The term has been fully usurped by the far right. It's just here now to stoke hate and fear in an effort to consolidate wealth and power.
Don't like something? Just cry DEI and blame all the diverse people. Assume they're incompetent. Assume they can't do their jobs.
If you're wondering if it will stick around, of course it will. When I was younger, it was hating on affirmative action hires. Or kids that got accepted to college cause they were minorities.
Same fear mongering.
Whatever you thought your arguments about DEI were, they are no longer worth your time. The term has been fully usurped by the far right. It's just here now to stoke hate and fear in an effort to consolidate wealth and power.
simpatico
Member
Their first attempt might be to turn down the temperature and resume the slow boiling process. If they kept things going at the pace they were in 2012, I think they could have gotten a lot further before anyone noticed or became discomforted enough to speak out about it. 2016 they seemed to get impatient and crank up the rate of acceleration. That's why it's important to brutally call it out in any amount. Snuff out every whiff you find.
Last edited:
samoilaaa
Member
you sure its just a buzz word considering companies say in their official interviews that they prioritize it ?
So if it doesn't mean anything anymore then you won't mind if the Sweet Baby Incs of the world are no longer used and the initiatives end.
Ulysses 31
Member
Or have webpages dedicated to it.
Laptop1991
Member
It's ending because the industry isn't making as much money off gamers as they should or use to, that's the bottom line, they are not going to keep wasting billions on a fraction of the return forever, and as a gamer who hasn't bought a new game since Cyberpunk for various reason's, not just DEI, i'm quite happy about it.
Last edited:
Randall365
Member
4D chess, but all this woke nonsense got a certain someone elected - it would be interesting if now he is back in power, it gets turned off like a tap by the powers that be. Stranger things have happened!
after
What’s supposed to be Haram about this? A female dev?
Citation required.
And yet we now have people screeching in rage when they see black protagonists and women who look like the average western female.
Grifters like failed ‘developer’ Grummz and Pirat_Nation are making bank from their gullibility.
Ultimately, people don’t give a shit and buy the hyped games. Games like BG3 and Hogwarts make it very clear.
They could put pronouns in GTA 6 and it’d still sell a shitload of copies
rabbity-thing
Member
Spoiler alert, DEI was a buzzword for them too.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
As I mentioned before, you can't hide Virtual Signalling because Signalling is loud. We see what is being displayed because DEI deliberately mark themselves and put tags in their social media profiles.
Feel free to deny the obvious, but the only thing that matters is that money is flowing away. And your feelings one way or another is not going to get money to flow back. You can even deny that DEI exists if you want. But denial doesn't revert anything. People want what they like and they will not buy what they don't like, especially men.
Last edited:
light2x
Member
I think there's a global shift in culture. People that were tired of seeing identity politics shoved in their faces are finally starting to speak up and you're going to see it in video games where stuff like pronouns and forced token characters slowly wither away, it's not going to be immediately noticeable but we'll look back on it in a couple years with amusement.
Funny you mention this - since Asian studios had a significantly less skewed gender distribution (as in - more women employees) as far back as mid 00s, than most Western studios do today.
While true - that's easier said than done - given it's exceedingly rare for game studios in particular to have a well developed and consistent hiring process.
I think the real question should be that given a selection of viable candidates - should you 'ever' rate them against one another. As this can(and often is) be 'also' be used for 'merit' optimization (Ie. select the optimal candidate from those that passed your interview-loop).
It's wholly hypocritical of course (as you're literally saying that passing your interview criteria is NOT the criteria to getting hired), but surprising number of companies do this regardless. And of course - in that case, if they use the same method for 'dei' optimization - it's hard to argue anything's changed.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
now everyone is hyper-sensitive about Dei ruining games and movies that they have this defensive knee jerk reaction where as before it wasn't even cared about.
And no one cares if a character is black. The only thing close is the new assassins creed but that not about the guy being black. It's about the guy not being Japanese.
No one cares the new naughty dog character is black they just see the dei calling card " look " that's ruined so many games.
You seem to not even know what the real argument is .. instead just make it up to fit your outrage.
It's actually bigger than the YouTubers it's also the politicians & the fact that you're seeing "DEI" being the big talk on the mainstage .
CompleteGlobalSaturation
Member
There are more and more CEOs who are speaking out against DEI so hopefully this is a beginning of a trend change.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
In the short term, change can feel painfully slow. But in the medium and long term, the market is ruthless and will cull companies who don't provide what their customers want. Game developers will adapt to whatever the new reality is or they'll die, sometimes slowly, and judging by recent events, often rapidly.
Syphon Filter
Member
most likely will be around, literally every sony studio is woke now and microsoft as well.
Hawk The Slayer
Member
Optional gay and lesbian features aren't woke and I even support games offering those choices as well as having gay or lesbian characters in games if they are done well which they should be for good games just like straight characters for a good game.
Wicher 3, New Vegas, Fallout 4 etc got good characters of all types and would want more of this.
Wicher 3, New Vegas, Fallout 4 etc got good characters of all types and would want more of this.
What company has said they prioritize DEI when making games?
Not sure if serious, because we’ve had immediate claims of ‘DEI’ just from seeing black characters. The recent Everwild thread is a clear example.
The Irony.
Fbh
Member
IMO the trend of woke crap has peaked and most companies have finally had to realize there isn't an audience for it.
But with how long AAA games take to make I think it's going to be a few years before you see this being reflected in more games. There's probably several projects which were designed and greenlight 2-3 years ago which are now struggling to see how they'll adapt
But with how long AAA games take to make I think it's going to be a few years before you see this being reflected in more games. There's probably several projects which were designed and greenlight 2-3 years ago which are now struggling to see how they'll adapt
Similar threads
- Locked