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Destiny 2 (PC/XB1/PS4, Sep 8) CG reveal trailer, pre-orders, gameplay debut May 18th

T

The Driver

Member
Put me in the "Destiny went to clunky basura" camp after Y1.

Really hope both the exotic design philosophy and crucible balance goes back to Y1 standards because this shit wasn't the same once they started wrecking player options.
 
T

Twilight Gap

Member
HiredN00bs said:
There are cooldowns in every action a player can perform, and some were extended, that's a fact. Whether or not one describes their current state overall as "smooth" or "clunky" is extremely subjective, and is not a matter of fact.
Click to expand...

My original post said movement was clunky (or awkward since that is less ambiguous) when you bump into an object and lose your momentum. This happens all the time in Destiny. I then when on to state the game feels worse than it did at launch because of all the "cooldowns" they've extended on top of other sandbox abilities they've watered down by nonsensically poking around issues.

ZeoVGM then disagreed with both of these things, which is impossible unless we are playing different games.

I'm really not interested in a debate over semantics. The gunplay is not as good as it was when it launched, and I haven't seen an informed argument to the contrary.
 
everyer

everyer

Member
Got my 3A Destiny figure today... Feel so good~

It's much better than the 3A Titan


（LDR5001 is bigger than I thought it should be, and Warlock lost his Wrist while Hunter lost her ankle）

znatMCeg.jpg


n1EgCMeg.jpg


G0Wrkasg.jpg
 
J

Jblanks

Member
Foxxsoxx said:
I agree that there have been countless nerfs that have made the game feel worse and worse to play since launch.

Literally everything but pulse rifles have been nerfed, and heavily at that. Abilities, guns, perks. It's a rare occasion to where nerfing something is the solution, when you can simply bump other things up to be just as good.

Still waiting on a buff for my swarm grenades, the worst grenade in the game. Instead they just nerf tripmines, which was an incredibly fun grenade to use that got just gutted.

I remember listening to a podcast and the lead developer of weapon balance said he wanted each patch to higlight new weapons like pulses or hand cannons so they could have their season to shine.

I can't think of a worse way to balance a game...
Click to expand...
I really want to get excited about Destiny 2 (not as excited as I was for the first though), but then I remember/hear about decisions like this and not separating balance between PVE and PVP, and it's just not happening. Maybe in May though, this hype check may be a good thing though..
 
A

Aztechnology

Member
Jest Chillin said:
I want this but 20 bucks is a steep ask when I got Cayde for $5.
Click to expand...

Cayde was technically free. If these were $5 or less I'd consider getting a few as I like them and the detail is solid. $20 is crazy though.


FlyStarJay said:
http://www.gamesradar.com/destiny-2-will-keep-going-with-timed-exclusive-ps4-content/

Has this been mentioned? and it seems like it would last for a year at least
Click to expand...

Ughh this is fucking disgusting. I played Destiny on PS4 but this is just wrong. I felt really bad for those who played on Xbox. I was hoping to go PC this time around too. Hopefully they offer a 60fps pro mode...
 
T

The Salt Life

Banned
My prediction, lack of Ghosts in the beginning of the campaign leads to Cayde 6 dying ......



Comes back at the end of the Campaign as Cayde-7
Slightly toned down but still crazy.
Aztechnology said:
Cayde was technically free. If these were $5 or less I'd consider getting a few as I like them and the detail is solid. $20 is crazy though.




Ughh this is fucking disgusting. I played Destiny on PS4 but this is just wrong. I felt really bad for those who played on Xbox. I was hoping to go PC this time around too. Hopefully they offer a 60fps pro mode...
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My favorite dlc exclusive strike that's on PS is not coming out on Xbox until Destiny 2 comes out, that's why I hate Sony in this instance and their year long bullshit. I really wanted my friends on the Xbox side to experience that one vex strike that actually requires you to do something besides shoot the boss.
 
T

The Salt Life

Banned
Xbox Bros and Girls need to be more active
There seems to be a really annoying "you should just play on PS4" attitude instead of welcoming of people on all platforms that have access to the game.
 
L

Lothars

Member
GodOnlyNose said:
Xbox Bros and Girls need to be more active
There seems to be a really annoying "you should just play on PS4" attitude instead of welcoming of people on all platforms that have access to the game.
Click to expand...
I don't know how you get that but there's always tons of people playing on Xbox.
 
H

HiredN00bs

Member
Zoba said:
My original post said movement was clunky (or awkward since that is less ambiguous) when you bump into an object and lose your momentum. This happens all the time in Destiny. I then when on to state the game feels worse than it did at launch because of all the "cooldowns" they've extended on top of other sandbox abilities they've watered down by nonsensically poking around issues.

ZeoVGM then disagreed with both of these things, which is impossible unless we are playing different games.

I'm really not interested in a debate over semantics. The gunplay is not as good as it was when it launched, and I haven't seen an informed argument to the contrary.
Click to expand...

For most people, the changes were invisible. You'd have to talk to the sandbox designers as to why the changes were made, and it would be ludicrous to assume the reason was to make the game worse from their perspective. "I haven't heard an informed argument against mine" is incorrect because your perspective that longer cooldowns and momentum killers are worse is a subjective opinion, not an argument. Presumably, there could be players who also efficiently played the old cooldowns and movement and found them to be exploitative. You're going to have a bias if a nerf limits something you enjoyed, but it may have been done for a reason that you would find legitimate if you had it explained to you.

I'm not even disagreeing with you on the changes being necessary and better. Which designs are fun is highly subjective. Which designs are fair is also, but you can use data and statistics about skill distribution to lend objectivity to the process.

One of the things I notice right away about going back to Reach is that I can aim and normally return fire without being impacted by incoming fire. To me, that feels better. I've never liked flinch because I feel like it disempowers the player from fighting to the best of their ability. I can understand why you feel similar things about the patches. These things are argued about internally, but they are all in some way design decisions with subjective results.
 
H

HiredN00bs

Member
GodOnlyNose said:
Xbox Bros and Girls need to be more active
There seems to be a really annoying "you should just play on PS4" attitude instead of welcoming of people on all platforms that have access to the game.
Click to expand...
PS3 had it the worst of all. You know who has Destiny on PS3? Everyone in every Tower instance you join. I put together and sherpa'd a Vault of Glass back in the day with Tower people while playing with a friend who only had the PS3 version.
 
D

darkistheway

Member
HiredN00bs said:
For most people, the changes were invisible. You'd have to talk to the sandbox designers as to why the changes were made, and it would be ludicrous to assume the reason was to make the game worse from their perspective. "I haven't heard an informed argument against mine" is incorrect because your perspective that longer cooldowns and momentum killers are worse is a subjective opinion, not an argument. Presumably, there could be players who also efficiently played the old cooldowns and movement and found them to be exploitative. You're going to have a bias if a nerf limits something you enjoyed, but it may have been done for a reason that you would find legitimate if you had it explained to you.

I'm not even disagreeing with you on the changes being necessary and better. Which designs are fun is highly subjective. Which designs are fair is also, but you can use data and statistics about skill distribution to lend objectivity to the process.

One of the things I notice right away about going back to Reach is that I can aim and normally return fire without being impacted by incoming fire. To me, that feels better. I've never liked flinch because I feel like it disempowers the player from fighting to the best of their ability. I can understand why you feel similar things about the patches. These things are argued about internally, but they are all in some way design decisions with subjective results.
Click to expand...
While I agree it's all subjective, we do know the reasons the sandbox team made the changes. Time and time again, they refer to statistical data as their metric.

The problem with this is while statistics are objective they don't give a sense of how the game feels.

We play the game because of how it feels not because Bungie buffs our favorite weapon by 0.04% in search of some arcane statistical balance.

And honestly, we have seen Bungie play their own game. They are not nearly as good as people like Zoba. I trust his assessment of why the game feels slower and clunkier more than I trust Bungie's assessment of why the changes will 'improve' the Crucible.
 
Havoc2049

Havoc2049

Member
Kyoufu said:
Nothing to do with their engine, it's simply a design decision. They want your gun and character to behave consistently between PVE and PVP. I hope they change it, but I have no hopes for that either.
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I hope they don't change that. I like the consistency of the weapons across the whole game. Some weapons are better for different situations and I'll just switch out my weapons and gear that is better suited for Crucible, Raids, etc.
 
C

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
Havoc2049 said:
I hope they don't change that. I like the consistency of the weapons across the whole game. Some weapons are better for different situations and I'll just switch out my weapons and gear that is better suited for Crucible, Raids, etc.
Click to expand...

Bungie trying to balance pvp and pve at the same time was one of their worst design choices imo. A gun should not be rendered useless in PVE simply for PVP reasons. Drove me crazy.
 
H

HiredN00bs

Member
darkistheway said:
And honestly, we have seen Bungie play their own game. They are not nearly as good as people like Zoba. I trust his assessment of why the game feels slower and clunkier more than I trust Bungie's assessment of why the changes will 'improve' the Crucible.
Click to expand...
You've seen all ~1000 Bungie employees play their own game?

You trust a single person's experience over statistical data?

There could be someone just as skilled at the game at Bungie, but it still wouldn't necessarily change the current state of the game, even if they agreed with him. Like, for example, I doubt Zoba is aware of the statistics on how cooldowns play with network performance, as almost none of this stuff is published.

Armchair design is fine, this is NeoGAF; it's the arrogance of "I know what's a better design without data" that irks me.
 
D

Doctoglethorpe

Member
Aztechnology said:
Cayde was technically free. If these were $5 or less I'd consider getting a few as I like them and the detail is solid. $20 is crazy though.
.
Click to expand...

You are not going to get that quality for $5 anywhere. 20 seems reasonable to me judging by the cayde figure, and that will probably be the cheapest built one to save GameStop some money.

That said I wish it didn't have the wolves and take a fiver off or something.
 
T

Two Words

Member
Havoc2049 said:
I hope they don't change that. I like the consistency of the weapons across the whole game. Some weapons are better for different situations and I'll just switch out my weapons and gear that is better suited for Crucible, Raids, etc.
Click to expand...
Do you also like how limited character builds are in PvE? Because you can largely blame the parity of PvE and PvP for that.
 
duhmetree

duhmetree

Member
Balancing crucible based off of usage statistics is asinine IMO. They keep watering down the game and nerfing anything that's effective...

Eventually you get to where we are today... a bland experience.
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
Two Words said:
Do you also like how limited character builds are in PvE? Because you can largely blame the parity of PvE and PvP for that.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with the character builds in PvE. As I said earlier, there are a few issues with it and I would like to see more perks that have slightly different uses in PvE and PvP. But I have absolutely no issue with builds in PvE at all.

I like that it's the same across the game and want them to continue with it. I think that's part of what makes Destiny the game it is.

duhmetree said:
Balancing crucible based off of usage statistics is asinine IMO. They keep watering down the game and nerfing anything that's effective...

Eventually you get to where we are today... a bland experience.
Click to expand...

This is my problem. It's a terrible way to go about things.

If Bungie doesn't like that one type of weapon has low usage, make that weapon better. Don't just nerf others to force people to try something they aren't interested in.
 
T

Two Words

Member
ZeoVGM said:
I have no problem with the character builds in PvE. As I said earlier, there are a few issues with it and I would like to see more perks that have slightly different uses in PvE and PvP. But I have absolutely no issue with builds in PvE at all.

I like that it's the same across the game and want them to continue with it. I think that's part of what makes Destiny the game it is.
Click to expand...
Have you played a loot game with diverse character builds for the same class?
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
Subclass customisation in Destiny 1 is virtually nonexistent, so I'm hoping there are more choices and more builds to play with in D2. According to their press release and info blurb, they are adding a lot more customisation, so here's hoping.
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
Two Words said:
Have you played a loot game with diverse character builds for the same class?
Click to expand...

I believe they are diverse. In the sequel, sure, I would like to see them make them even more diverse. But in Destiny 1, you're acting as if it's a problem and I don't agree. Sorry.
 
D

darkistheway

Member
HiredN00bs said:
You've seen all ~1000 Bungie employees play their own game?

You trust a single person's experience over statistical data?

There could be someone just as skilled at the game at Bungie, but it still wouldn't necessarily change the current state of the game, even if they agreed with him. Like, for example, I doubt Zoba is aware of the statistics on how cooldowns play with network performance, as almost none of this stuff is published.

Armchair design is fine, this is NeoGAF; it's the arrogance of "I know what's a better design without data" that irks me.
Click to expand...
No, I have not seen all 1000 employees. But I can evaluate their effect on the game.

I'm not just going with Zoba. I'm going with my experience, the many people who have been discussing this in the Destiny OTs for literally years, the hundreds of posts analyzing the Crucible in r/crucibleplaybook, and the testimony of many top-level streamers.

Against Bungie's 1000 employees (only a few of which actually matter, btw), I'm willing to believe that the literally millions of people who play every day have a more valid perspective on how the game feels.

Statistical data has its place. But so does the community. I don't think that Bungie has done a good enough job in engaging the community in how Destiny should be evolving.

They make changes to the meta that are mind-boggling, they misrepresent the changes, and are obstinate about reverting changes that are universally despised.

So sure, it's all subjective. But that's good. And Bungie should listen.
 
D

daffy

Banned
GodOnlyNose said:
Xbox Bros and Girls need to be more active
There seems to be a really annoying "you should just play on PS4" attitude instead of welcoming of people on all platforms that have access to the game.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean? No one cares about this exclusive bs except ultra nerds. I'm buying a Xbox copy if I buy one at all. Plenty of people will be doing the same. We should be more concerned with the content that everyone is getting that we can't even be sure is solid with this franchise.
 
T

Two Words

Member
ZeoVGM said:
I believe they are diverse. In the sequel, sure, I would like to see them make them even more diverse. But in Destiny 1, you're acting as if it's a problem and I don't agree. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Fine, then please express the diversity of builds in Destiny 1 that actually make a significant impact in PvE. You've made a habit of just saying "Nah, I disagree. I think it is good." It makes for an uninteresting conversation if it is merely a back and forth of "Well I think X." Can you please give some details on how Destiny's class builds are diverse, similar to other loot games?
 
M

MattGalvatron

Member
Two Words said:
Fine, then please express the diversity of builds in Destiny 1 that actually make a significant impact in PvE. You've made a habit of just saying "Nah, I disagree. I think it is good." It makes for an uninteresting conversation if it is merely a back and forth of "Well I think X." Can you please give some details on how Destiny's class builds are diverse, similar to other loot games?
Click to expand...

Have you played any of the raids? Those prove they have an impact on pve. You need certain classes to help beat areas and bosses. Could they be more diverse sure. But Titan protects or buffs the others don't. Hunter bow helps add more damage to bosses others don't. Warlock can res others don't. So their are differences in builds and powers and weapons and armor etc. Classes have sub classes and within those sub classes have even more options.
 
Z

ZeoVGM

Banned
Two Words said:
Fine, then please express the diversity of builds in Destiny 1 that actually make a significant impact in PvE. You've made a habit of just saying "Nah, I disagree. I think it is good." It makes for an uninteresting conversation if it is merely a back and forth of "Well I think X." Can you please give some details on how Destiny's class builds are diverse, similar to other loot games?
Click to expand...

The poster above did it for me.

I've also explained it in more detail earlier in this thread (or the last one, I forget) when you were on another negative rant about the game. I had a whole post explaining the differences between classes and the benefits in both PvE and PvP in response to someone who asked.

I don't care about other loot games. I don't want Destiny to be other loot games. I want it to be Destiny and its simplicity is part of what of what makes it Destiny.
 
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