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[SlimySnake]

Here we go. UE5.4 performance improvements video.

• Massive 45% improvement on PC's best CPU 7800x3D going from 5.0 to 5.4.
• Console CPU (XSX CPU from China) sees a 60% improvement while walking, 80% while flying.
• Big Upgrades to Reflections and Emissive Lighting in Lumens. Reflections can now display more colors and materials. Emissive lighting has better GI coverage.
• Shader compilation has improved on PC thanks to the auto UE5 shader compilation feature. But it's still not good enough and devs still need a shader compilation step to iron out the remaining stutters.

I think we all need to stop worrying about UE5 performance going forward. Of course, the GPUs are still not strong enough for 1440p 60 fps, but those sub 20s fps drops while driving in the matrix demo are now gone.



Still watching. Will update results later. Amazing improvements especially on consoles.

What's interesting is that their 4800S (XSX CPU) and Rx6700 combo just doesnt run well. The performance is in the teens in the same areas where the game was mostly a locked 30 fps on both consoles while walking. Clearly the demo was optimized better for consoles. Either that or the demo is running into some kind of bug on their setup. I was getting fairly similar performance to consoles on my rtx 2080 a couple of years ago, but i had a way better CPU.

Update: The Console CPU test might be flawed:

That part of the test had on major flaw. The PCIe connection that board uses, only supports 4 lanes.
So that par of the test was very limited by the PCIe bus, not by the GPU nor the CPU.
At best it shows that UE5 has gotten significant improvements to it's streaming and caching system.

 

[adamsapple]

Console CPU (XSX CPU from China) sees a 60% improvement while walking, 80% while flying.

Gotdamn that's a pretty big improvement, bodes well for 60 FPS UE5 games in the next couple of years as the engine matures.

. Of course, the GPUs are still not strong enough for 1440p 60 fp

I don't think they need to aim for native pixels, with non-hardware based upscaling like Unreal's TSR getting better with every iteration.

But future consoles will probably have dedicated up-scaling hardware in them ala Geforce's tensor cores, so it's gonna become an even moot-er point.

 

[K' Dash]

As a consumer this means nothing, we wait 5 years to see anything using these features and it plays like a fucking 2008 game.

 

[Spyxos]

Finnally.

Now get rid of the stupid stuttering. Everytime i play Fortnite on Pc it stutters for good 2-3 seconds and the image is completely frozen. It only happens at the beginning, but it's still more than annoying.

 

[Perrott]

As a consumer this means nothing, we wait 5 years to see anything using these features and it plays like a fucking 2008 game.

Then complain to the fucking game designers, not to the graphics engine.

 

[omegasc]

Hopefully already released UE5 games can be "easily" updated and take advantage of this perf bump. Immortals of Aveum comes to mind, since they are also going to add FSR 3. Not saying it's a good game or that would save it, but at least we can see if this translates to improvements in a real game scenario.

 

[Denton]

Good to see improvements but damn, it still needs lot of work. Traversal stutter is still ridiculous for such widely used engine. I hope STALKER 2 will not be stutterfest...

Hopefully already released UE5 games can be "easily" updated and take advantage of this perf bump. Immortals of Aveum comes to mind, since they are also going to add FSR 3. Not saying it's a good game or that would save it, but at least we can see if this translates to improvements in a real game scenario.

Very doubtful anyone will bother. Especially not Aveum guys though, that game and studio are near dead.

 

[SlimySnake]

Hopefully already released UE5 games can be "easily" updated and take advantage of this perf bump. Immortals of Aveum comes to mind, since they are also going to add FSR 3. Not saying it's a good game or that would save it, but at least we can see if this translates to improvements in a real game scenario.

The immortals of aveum engine programmer was very active on reddit and still is. this is what he had to say about the latest UE5.4 upgrades recently.

The S renders at 50% of the display resolution, which is intended to be 1440p so 720 base resolution.
The blurry DF vdieos were actually from a bug that we fixed in the first week of launch. That's our bad - last minute config changes got merged poorly and I didn't double check them before pulling the trigger.
Unfortunately with the S, there is just not much you can do. The ram just isn't there to handle everything and the gpu is pretty weak. The X has 16gb of ram and a 12TF gpu. The S has 10gb of ram and a 4 TF gpu. So 1/3 as powerful. Its extremely hard (impossible really) to do a realtime lighting game with something the weak. This was the best compromise we could get.
But, yeah, we knew we'd be slashing our market a bit. We didn't anticipate the UE 5.1 was going to be as poorly optimized as it was. As a contrast, 5.4 running about 60% faster - which is a huge part of why we've been working on getting that going as well.

It's coming. They already improved the resolution from 720p internal to 900p within a few weeks of launch. im guessing they will get to 1080p with UE5.4 if they havent already.

 

[diffusionx]

Epic should re-release the Matrix demo on console, because it's been years, a lot of PS5/XSX owners never saw it, UE5 has gone nowhere since it's been released, and performance will be a lot better.

 

[winjer]

Gotdamn that's a pretty big improvement, bodes well for 60 FPS UE5 games in the next couple of years as the engine matures.

That part of the test had on major flaw. The PCIe connection that board uses, only supports 4 lanes.
So that par of the test was very limited by the PCIe bus, not by the GPU nor the CPU.
At best it shows that UE5 has gotten significant improvements to it's streaming and caching system.

 

[SlimySnake]

Good to see improvements but damn, it still needs lot of work. Traversal stutter is still ridiculous for such widely used engine. I hope STALKER 2 will not be stutterfest...


Very doubtful anyone will bother. Especially not Aveum guys though, that game and studio are near dead.

The one dev in charge of performance improvements, hdr and other bug fixes is still working on it. he said that HDR support and UE5.4 support is coming.

This is him on reddit. he still replies to most posts and has been VERY open about both the PS5 and XSX/XSS system architectures.

https://www.reddit.com/user/Leather-Tomorrow4221/

 

[Bojji]

What's interesting is that their 4800S (XSX CPU) and Rx6700 combo just doesnt run well. The performance is in the teens in the same areas where the game was mostly a locked 30 fps on both consoles while walking. Clearly the demo was optimized better for consoles. Either that or the demo is running into some kind of bug on their setup. I was getting fairly similar performance to consoles on my rtx 2080 a couple of years ago, but i had a way better CPU.

This CPU was worse than 3600 in many tests, with that GDDR6 latency it's terrible PC cpu. But this doesn't fully explain dogshit performance in UE5.

Or maybe it does, this CPU is much closer to 3600 in old games but in new games it's terrible.

I bet it performs better than this in console environment but still (and it has to based on UE5 demo)...

 

[winjer]

Unless someone is running their GPU at PCIe 4X, that test with the 4800U is pointless and it does not represent reality.
The results with the 4090+7800X3D is a much more realistic assessment of the performance improvements we should expect.

 

[SlimySnake]

This CPU was worse than 3600 in many tests, with that GDDR6 latency it's terrible PC cpu. But this doesn't fully explain dogshit performance in UE5.

Or maybe it does, this CPU is much closer to 3600 in old games but in new games it's terrible.

I bet it performs better than this in console environment but still (and it has to based on UE5 demo)...

Yeah, i remember it not keeping up the 3600, but thats to be expected since the 3600 had more cache and higher clocks. I think what winger said is more likely the reason why its performing so poorly in the matrix demo.

 

[SlimySnake]

Unless someone is running their GPU at PCIe 4X, that test with the 4800U is pointless and it does not represent reality.
The results with the 4090+7800X3D is a much more realistic assessment of the performance improvements we should expect.

Immortals of aveuem dev said 60% which is in line with what Alex saw while walking around. The flying test being 80% faster might not be correct, but it is still on the same exact setup.

 

[Radical_3d]

Ducking genius edit on the Frankenstein PC:

 

[Fbh]

That's pretty cool.
Maybe it means the last few year of this gen on console won't be a bunch of games running at 900p and 30fps with drops.

 

[Bojji]

Unless someone is running their GPU at PCIe 4X, that test with the 4800U is pointless and it does not represent reality.
The results with the 4090+7800X3D is a much more realistic assessment of the performance improvements we should expect.

Yeah, i remember it not keeping up the 3600, but thats to be expected since the 3600 had more cache and higher clocks. I think what winger said is more likely the reason why its performing so poorly in the matrix demo.

Performance difference isn't this big usually, PCIE speed doesn't explain this gulf in performance:

 

[winjer]

Performance difference isn't this big usually, PCIE speed doesn't explain this gulf in performance:

That UE5 tech demo is particularly heavy with streaming assets.
You can't make a comparison with older games.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I knew that these console CPUs were weak, but I'm still impressed on how weak it is. I mean, a R5 3600 getting about 40%+ performance over it is just embarrassing.

 

[winjer]

Immortals of aveuem dev said 60% which is in line with what Alex saw while walking around. The flying test being 80% faster might not be correct, but it is still on the same exact setup.

You didn't understand my point, that with that test at 4x lanes, DF is testing the improvements to the streaming system. Not so much to the CPU.

 

[SlimySnake]

Performance difference isn't this big usually, PCIE speed doesn't explain this gulf in performance:

Those are last gen games though, yes even Cyberpunk and UE5 like Gen 4.

From the immortals dev:

And its not a bad CPU but its also running PCIe 3.0 tech so the top end GPU is getting a bit bandwidth starved. UE5 is really really I/O intensive with nanite constantly loading and unloading assets so having the lower bandwidth to the video card hurts.

I'm well aware of how the tool works - I wrote it.

The PS5 is basically a 6700XT not a 5700XT. Both are RDNA2 running at around 2250Mhz (2233 for the PS5 and 2321 for the 6700XT stock) - but the 6700XT is a 230W vs 180W setup so you can see where the PS5 falls down - no boost clock.

The PS5 does have greater memory bandwidth (448gb/s vs 384) which helps a ton when we push async compute tasks over to it - which we do in IoA.

The PC version leans into the UE5 Scalability group system - what comes out in the cooking engine.ini in the context binary isn't the actual settings. Thats what the tool does - it runs a synthetic benchmark and then does a lookup against the scalability settings that we've created. Those defaults are an attempt to match the performance cost vs system capabilities.

But the PS5 actually has its own scalability settings. The PC groups don't map to it at all. Most of them don't exist on the PS5. And the costing isn't an exact match since its an aggregate over a wide range of hardware and resolutions. The performance budget tool is still very much in its first pass and you'll be seeing vast improvements with it over the next few patches.

 

[Darsxx82]

Epic should re-release the Matrix demo on console, because it's been years, a lot of PS5/XSX owners never saw it, UE5 has gone nowhere since it's been released, and performance will be a lot better.

A lot , lot better based on UE 5 GDC 2024. Better GPU and CPU optimitation on console for Nanite and materials shading ( and a magnificent use of VRS)

Take a deep dive into Nanite GPU-driven materials

Learn about the GPU-driven material pipeline’s core components and how they fit into Nanite’s overall design in this GDC 2024 presentation.

www.unrealengine.com

That demo would definitely work much better with the updates and optimizations of UE 5. 4

 

[Griffon]

Looks like UE5 will finally have good performance within the next 3 years. Just in time for next gen.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Currently playing Fort Solis and yeah the stutters are annoying.

#unimpressedwithunreal5

 

[SlimySnake]

I knew that these console CPUs were weak, but I'm still impressed on how weak it is. I mean, a R5 3600 getting about 40%+ performance over it is just embarrassing.

In some games it was 60-70% lol

That said, the CPUs have 16 fucking threads that run at 3.5 Ghz. Thats a massive upgrade over the 1.6 Ghz CPU with 8 threads that were designed for netbook operations. The IPC gains on these PS5/XSX CPUs alone is almost 100%.

Devs just need to multithread their engines. It's hard for games that are single threaded by nature but UE5 engineers have shown that it can be done. Matrix had something crazy like 90k cars. 45k in constant traffic. 35k pedestrians. Fully simulated. it is a very heavy CPU game and now with some performance improvements, it runs just fine.

 

[IDWhite]

Now I/O performance is important. Weeks before it was just a Ps5 marketing campaign thing.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Is this a Bugaga video??

 

[Audiophile]

I really wish they'd release an updated version of the matrix awakens demo on console with the very latest version of the engine. Just so we could see how much better it is. The Lumen in the land of Nanite demo would be nice to have too, again, fully updated to 5.4+.

 

[hinch7]

Considerably better than before. Still not quite there, but at least it reduces the stutter-fest on shaders and a massive improvement on PC.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

If only devs could care enough and had the time to update their games to newest versions. But nope, we're pretty much stuck with abysmal performance of early games (except RoboCop) forever and no matter the hardware.

 

[SlimySnake]

Now I/O performance is important. Weeks before it was just a Ps5 marketing campaign thing.

Just a PCIe Gen 3 vs Gen 4 thing. You can run the Matrix demo on an HDD or a 500 MBps SATA ssd.

 

[IDWhite]

Just a PCIe Gen 3 vs Gen 4 thing. You can run the Matrix demo on an HDD or a 500 MBps SATA ssd.

If you can run the demo on a Sata SSD then PCIe can't be the problem.

 

[darrylgorn]

 

[ChiefDada]

Just a PCIe Gen 3 vs Gen 4 thing.

That is I/O.

You can run the Matrix demo on an HDD or a 500 MBps SATA ssd.

 

[Zathalus]

Nice to see performance improvements like this. Good news for the base consoles.

 

[SlimySnake]

That is I/O.

of course. he was referring to the PS5 IO discussion we had last week in the PS5 Pro thread where apparently the PS5's IO wasnt getting its due because of some conspiracy. XSX and most modern GPUs are not bottlenecked in that department. UE5 was mostly CPU bound in the Matrix demo on both consoles and high end PCs. Its no longer CPU bound. That's all there is to this. Lets not try and twist this into some secret sauce PS5 issue.

if anything this proves that the cerny io did not help the PS5 CPU/GPU overcome the CPU bottlenecks fixed in UE5.4.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

big news for the 3 games that use ue5

 

[Magic Carpet]

I did not know that Fortnite was a studder judder dudder.
It used to look and run just fine.

 

[adamsapple]

big news for the 3 games that use ue5

You'd be surprised how many games already use it. Plus this bodes well for the games currently in development.

List of games that use Unreal Engine 5 - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

www.pcgamingwiki.com

 

[ChiefDada]

of course. he was referring to the PS5 IO discussion we had last week in the PS5 Pro thread where apparently the PS5's IO wasnt getting its due because of some conspiracy. XSX and most modern GPUs are not bottlenecked in that department. UE5 was mostly CPU bound in the Matrix demo on both consoles and high end PCs. Its no longer CPU bound. That's all there is to this. Lets not try and twist this into some secret sauce PS5 issue.

if anything this proves that the cerny io did not help the PS5 CPU/GPU overcome the CPU bottlenecks fixed in UE5.4.

The video has a chapter on CPU improvements via multithreading performance, and another chapter discussing traversal stutter that is yet to be fully taken care of. It seems like you are only focusing on the CPU chapter. Traversal stutter is an i/o issue, point blank. No need to throw out red herrings like "PS5 secret sauce". PS5 is good at what it was designed to be good at.

 

[SlimySnake]

The video has a chapter on CPU improvements via multithreading performance, and another chapter discussing traversal stutter that is yet to be fully taken care of. It seems like you are only focusing on the CPU chapter. Traversal stutter is an i/o issue, point blank. No need to throw out red herrings like "PS5 secret sauce". PS5 is good at what it was designed to be good at.

shader stutter is not the same as traversal stutter. jesus christ dude.

i dont know how many times i have to list Unreal Engine 4 and Unreal Engine 5 games that have the same traversal stutter on PS5 as they do on XSX and PC. It is an engine issue.

 

[Bojji]

Those are last gen games though, yes even Cyberpunk and UE5 like Gen 4.

From the immortals dev:

4800S is Gen 4 PCIEx4 (6700 is also gen 4). It's enough for majority of games to not be severely bottlenecked, Sony games are the worst offenders when it comes to hammering PCI bus. I don't think UE is like that

of course. he was referring to the PS5 IO discussion we had last week in the PS5 Pro thread where apparently the PS5's IO wasnt getting its due because of some conspiracy. XSX and most modern GPUs are not bottlenecked in that department. UE5 was mostly CPU bound in the Matrix demo on both consoles and high end PCs. Its no longer CPU bound. That's all there is to this. Lets not try and twist this into some secret sauce PS5 issue.

if anything this proves that the cerny io did not help the PS5 CPU/GPU overcome the CPU bottlenecks fixed in UE5.4.

It still is, it got 40% improvement but still hammers 7800x3d like motherfucker and you can't achieve more than 70-80FPS on best CPU on the planet. High FPS gaming is out of the question.

 

[playsaves3]

I knew that these console CPUs were weak, but I'm still impressed on how weak it is. I mean, a R5 3600 getting about 40%+ performance over it is just embarrassing.

But remember guys the cpu is more than enough it’s what they kept saying at launch it’s the you that’s the issue… everyone should have seen this coming when unlike using the latest gpu architecture they used a generation old cpu already at launch

 

[ChiefDada]

shader stutter is not the same as traversal stutter. jesus christ dude.

Exactly. But you seem to be the one not understanding there are many reasons behind why UE5 is performing the way it is. CPU multithreading, shader compilation, and yes, traversal stutter as well. I recommend you pay attention at 11:00 also the words specifically used at 11:43. Traversal stutter is actually worse in UE 5.4. You always want to point to one thing to simplify reasons behind performance issues but it's almost always more complex.

i dont know how many times i have to list Unreal Engine 4 and Unreal Engine 5 games that have the same traversal stutter on PS5 as they do on XSX and PC. It is an engine issue.

PS5 has consistently performed better overall in comparison to XSX/PC when discussing traversal stutter so i don't know what you're talking about.

 

[SlimySnake]

PS5 has consistently performed better overall in comparison to XSX/PC when discussing traversal stutter so i don't know what you're talking about.

Wrong. I listed several games last time. Not going to bother again. PS5 has the same traversal stutter in the same spot in the same games.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The immortals of aveum engine programmer was very active on reddit and still is. this is what he had to say about the latest UE5.4 upgrades recently.


It's coming. They already improved the resolution from 720p internal to 900p within a few weeks of launch. im guessing they will get to 1080p with UE5.4 if they havent already.

And you see why I keep saying the issue with the consoles is not the CPU but the devs and how they utilize the CPU? Just look at this, from better optimization of their engine alone they are netting 60-80% better performance from the CPU.

This is nothing new, devs would sooner use extra hardware headroom to brute force their way through poorly optimized code (which is easier, faster and cheaper) than take the time to optimize (which is slower and harder and in turn more expensive). Dunno why this concept is lost to so many all of a sudden.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Wrong. I listed several games last time. Not going to bother again. PS5 has the same traversal stutter in the same spot in the same games.

Not in some recent games like Avatar and lords of the fallen. PS5 has like zero traversal stutters in those games compared to XSX.

 

[FireFly]

I knew that these console CPUs were weak, but I'm still impressed on how weak it is. I mean, a R5 3600 getting about 40%+ performance over it is just embarrassing.

The 4800S isn't representative of console performance, as Alex clearly states in the video.

 

[Deerock71]

As a consumer this means nothing, we wait 5 years to see anything using these features and it plays like a fucking 2008 game.

She is my kind of crazy.