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DOOM Review Thread - The Fury Road of Shooters

-tetsuo-

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
Comrade Crunch said:
So was Fury Road, it was just mostly visual storytelling.

Though Wolfenstein was more like the Inglorius Basterds or Pulp Fiction of games.
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I should have said cutscenes. Point is Doom is moving from frame 1 while Wolfenstein slows down quite a bit frequently for long dialogue exchanges or stelth segments etc.
 
B

Brian_FETO

Banned
I'm still not understanding how loadouts themselves are the huge downfall of the multiplayer

I imagine the benefit of weapons spawning on the map is to encourage movement so you aren't sitting around camping.....but that's also what the demon rune does

I haven't experienced people sitting around waiting in any of my games. If I see a power weapon spot starting to glow then I'll hang in the area to try and get it but you don't have people just crouching in corners one shotting people

It's arena map design and you get to pick a loadout that suits your playstyle. It's not like Gauss cannon/chainsaw are options

All of my gripes with the multiplayer are outside of the loadout system so it's always super weird to me when people say it's broken or embarrassing. Non-traditional, sure, but come on. There has to be a middle ground between awesome/perfect and broken unremarkable garbage
 
A

A-V-B

Member
Brian_FETO said:
I'm still not understanding how loadouts themselves are the huge downfall of the multiplayer

I imagine the benefit of weapons spawning on the map is to encourage movement so you aren't sitting around camping.....but that's also what the demon rune does

I haven't experienced people sitting around waiting in any of my games. If I see a power weapon spot starting to glow then I'll hang in the area to try and get it but you don't have people just crouching in corners one shotting people

It's arena map design and you get to pick a loadout that suits your playstyle. It's not like Gauss cannon/chainsaw are options

All of my gripes with the multiplayer are outside of the loadout system so it's always super weird to me when people say it's broken or embarrassing. Non-traditional, sure, but come on. There has to be a middle ground between awesome/perfect and broken unremarkable garbage
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The problem here is you're pairing "unremarkable" with "broken garbage."

Doom's MP is exactly unremarkable. It's not broken, it's not garbage. It's just not very special, is all. The peaks and valleys of excitement are flattened. For me, at least.
 
T

tesqui

Member
I wonder what PC Gamer is gonna give Doom. I know it's pointless to make score comparisons. Especially when two different people reviewed it, but Duke Nukem Forever got an 8 from them. I await the internet's inevitable shit storm if they give Doom anything lower.
 
T

The Flash

Banned
tesqui said:
I wonder what PC Gamer is gonna give Doom. I know it's pointless to make score comparisons. Especially when two different people reviewed it, but Duke Nukem Forever got an 8 from them. I await the internet's inevitable shit storm if they give Doom anything lower.
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Here's what they've said about the game so far.

A good homage will imitate and elevate its source material. Right now, Doom feels like an excellent Doom game—a thrilling twitch shooter dipped in 1980s stoner metal—but it doesn’t stray very far from home. Look for our complete review of Doom next week.
Click to expand...
 
Brizzo24

Brizzo24

Member
ironcreed said:
ED972ft.jpg


billyiso.gif
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Did you read the response from Max Scoville?

Hey everybody, Max Scoville here. I work at IGN, hosting Up At Noon and Podcast Beyond. I don't review games. I'm technically a "host" which means I sometimes have to deliver sponsored messaging, and to have me giving scores, but also reading "This IGN ____ is brought to you by ____" would be a huge conflict of interests. Contrary to popular belief, there are a whole bunch of policies in place to the business side and editorial side from overlapping.

I usually enjoy this sub-Reddit, but it legitimately sucks ass to see hours of my colleagues' hard work reduced to an image that shits on the entire outlet.
Scott Lowe (who doesn't even work at IGN anymore) wrote our CoD: Ghosts review, three years ago. It was the first CoD on current-gen consoles, so I imagine there was some hype on that side. Go back and revisit the review scores for launch window titles, they frequently skew high.

On the other hand, Joab Gilroy, who reviewed DOOM, is a freelancer based out of Australia. I have never met him or even communicated with him, so I don't know what his deal is, but I know that we essentially didn't get DOOM until very last minute. Bethesda didn't get review copies out until launch, so we were scrambling to get our hands on it as soon as possible (to the point that we were trying to log into an Australian PS4 account via remote play stateside, or something, because region locking and international datelines are awful draconian concepts rabble rabble rabble.)

Of course there's a lack of consistency when you treat the review scores of video games an exact measurement system. Stop thinking of review scores as the grade on a Scantron test, where there's a correct answer, and start thinking of reviews like a teacher's notes on a paper. Some teachers are harsher with grades than others, but I've had bad teachers give good grades and good teachers give bad grades, and I've also turned in sub-par work. There are a lot of variables here.

My point is, Call of Duty: Ghosts and DOOM are different games made by different companies, released years apart. One is a cross-generational release from an annualized franchise predominantly played on consoles, the other is technically the fourth game in a series that hasn't had an installment in twelve years, but which basically established the entire genre. Oh, and the reviews were written by two different people, living on different continents. "Apples and Oranges" doesn't begin to cover it.
So, yeah. Hopefully I don't get yelled at for writing this, it just breaks my heart seeing where I work get shit on for the wrong reasons.

(For what it's worth, I think DOOM is pretty fucking awesome.)
Click to expand...
 
A

A-V-B

Member
The Flash said:
Here's what they've said about the game so far.
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It's pretty apparent that either you love Doom for being a Doom game, or you don't care too much about it because you were never into Doom in the first place. There are a few folks stuck in between who dislike Doom for not being enough like the original, but...

I guess what I'm saying is that it's niche. It's not broadly appealing. Which is sort of a... sad realization. But even if it doesn't revitalize the industry, we'll always have this game for ourselves.
 
T

tesqui

Member
The Flash said:
Here's what they've said about the game so far.
Click to expand...

A good homage will imitate and elevate its source material. Right now, Doom feels like an excellent Doom game—a thrilling twitch shooter dipped in 1980s stoner metal—but it doesn’t stray very far from home. Look for our complete review of Doom next week.
Click to expand...


Huh, I'm reading an 8 from that... Just as good as DNF! /s
 
M

marrec

Banned
Brizzo24 said:
Did you read the response from Max Scoville?
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Max is 100% right, it's a completely wrong comparison to make and nobody should be taking that stupid image seriously. If someone is seriously "mad" at IGN because they scored DOOM less than COD: Ghost they need to re-evaluate their life. In fact, if someone is mad at the DOOM reviewer for scoring DOOM 7.1, they need to re-evaluate their life.

That said, it is pretty funny at face value because Ghost isn't a good game but DOOM is. It's a simple joke really.
 
S

SaganIsGOAT

Junior Member
I am so on the fence with this game but I see the SnapMap stuff and I am just like, there is literally free and endless campaign esque content right there. hmmmm
 
D

Doikor

Member
Mupod said:
I remember playing UT4 on PC a few weeks ago and this game's multiplayer is embarrassing in comparison. And UT is free and in pre-alpha. Nevermind Overwatch, even.

I have a hard time nailing down exactly what is bothering me about it other than just 'everything is meh'. Maybe that it's got map design and powerups like an arena shooter despite having loadouts. I wiped an enemy team by camping the chainsaw and W+M1-ing my way to victory. Spawning is busted and it just kinda puts people wherever. You could probably roll your face across the keyboard while in demon mode and still kill people. Guns sound and feel like garbage, hit feedback and audio in general is terrible. Worst announcer ever (ok this one is minor but jesus fuck just get the Q3A guy).

I mean I'd play it over COD. But I don't play that series for a reason. I do keep going back to it hoping there's something I'm missing but I'm around level 15 and I keep quitting out wondering why I'm wasting my time.
Click to expand...

For me its that. It basically has maps designed like it was a proper arena shooter in the vein of Quake and UT and yet has the equipment model of a modern semi realistic military shooter. Controlling space (and thus the pickups) is such a huge part of arena fps games that without it they just don't work.

And I mostly played duels in UT for most of my arena shooter days where timing pickups is super important.
 
N

NinjamicWZ

Banned
I loved rail gun only matches in Quake 3 most. That was my favorite. So having a set weapon in an arena set up is totally fine with me.
 
D

dlauv

Member
marrec said:
Max is 100% right, it's a completely wrong comparison to make and nobody should be taking that stupid image seriously. If someone is seriously "mad" at IGN because they scored DOOM less than COD: Ghost they need to re-evaluate their life. In fact, if someone is mad at the DOOM reviewer for scoring DOOM 7.1, they need to re-evaluate their life.

That said, it is pretty funny at face value because Ghost isn't a good game but DOOM is. It's a simple joke really.
Click to expand...

Sites have to understand a lot of people are going to take these scores at face value. You can't explain inside baseball to the general audiences when they're mainly concerned with aggregate scoring. All scores on the site represent the site as an entity for the most part to many people, and that's the frustrating reality that people who know the reviewing process are going to have to understand. Especially since you have a list of games, their "IGN Ratings," and only by clicking on the review do you see the author.

And yes, the image is funny in an ironic way, whether you know the reviewing process or not. I don't see why that's so hard for some people to understand. I feel like they're so frustrated with ignorance that they're antsy to sermon something that's potentially problematic.
 
B

Brian_FETO

Banned
A-V-B said:
The problem here is you're pairing "unremarkable" with "broken garbage."

Doom's MP is exactly unremarkable. It's not broken, it's not garbage. It's just not very special, is all. The peaks and valleys of excitement are flattened. For me, at least.
Click to expand...
I put both because I've seen both

Obviously hyperbole is hyperbole but to me, unremarkable means "it's just alright". I haven't seen a lot of "alright" so much as "terrible"

I absolutely agree the multiplayer doesn't come anywhere close to achieving the greatness of the single player, but it's also the only option for old school-ish deathmatch on PS4

Overwatch is inspired by those classic games (and a much better multiplayer game) but it's objectives/roles are at the forefront
 
D

dlauv

Member
DOOM's multiplayer would have been better if there were campaign enemies to fight at the same time you were fighting the enemy team.

An idea for snapmap I guess.
 
A

antitrop

Member
Granjinha said:
Gamers are really childish with scores, huh? Quantum Break, Doom, Uncharted... Geez. Grow up.
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It will never happen. People were arguing about review scores in the 90s. At some point, you just have to accept that people will disagree with critics and that's okay. They're not passing on the infallible words of some made up gaming deity, they're just people with opinions like anyone else.

I see this weird "when did people start caring about review scores" sentiment in review threads all the time and the answer is "Always". People have cared about review scores for as long as they have existed and for as long as the internet has given them an opportunity to voice their own opinions.
 
J

Justinh

Member
NinjamicWZ said:
I loved rail gun only matches in Quake 3 most. That was my favorite. So having a set weapon in an arena set up is totally fine with me.
Click to expand...

I loved that shit, but only I played it in Quake 2. I feel like a damn a-hole repeating myself, but Rail Arena/Instagib (whatever it was called) with Grapple Hooks was the most fun I've ever had with multiplayer.
 
T

TheSlySoul

Member
Kotaku review convinced me to get it, a shame MP is not very good but I do not care about MP so it works for me.
Had $25 is rewards so got it for $25 w/ tax. Pretty much not gonna get it cheaper than that.
 
Zomba13

Zomba13

Member
I really like the MP. It's a breath of fresh air. Yeah, it has loadouts but also has power weapons, power ups and demon runes that spawn mid match, has arena shooter style map layouts and has health, armour and ammo pickups everywhere. It's not some CoD style map where you don't have much elevation and are just running around and killing quickly with a low time to kill and just doing what you do in CoD. There is a big flaw in that there isn't a normal Deathmatch mode though, that's some sort of war crime I think.

But yeah, it's nice to have a big budget, AAA game that has a mutliplayer mode with no regenerating shields/health and a bunch of pickups.

Would it be better with full on weapon pickups on the map and no loadout? Yeah it would, but it's still fun as it is now.
 
B

BackFromThePast

Banned
Joaby said:
Yeah that one's on me, I'd been on the sauce and worded that poorly.


I think SnapMap is a huge tick in its favour to be honest, enough to balance out the MP. I'd hate to see that go. Clearly I didn't like the MP (which is not to say that people who did like it are wrong) but it didn't impact my score at the end of the day.


I didn't review COD for IGN. There's an image up on reddit right now comparing Scott Lowe's Ghosts review with my Doom review. My own review for Ghosts, on the now defunct Games On Net, described it as a jingoistic mess. But I do think 7.1 is a good score. I think it's appropriate for the text I wrote too. A game I liked but I thought could have been a bit better.

As to living with my review, I'll be ok. I don't think I lack perspective. I think I did a good job. I always do my best. I think that for most people, like the vast, vast majority of people, reviews exist as a purchasing advice system. And I have no obligation to make people want to buy a game, just to share with them my honest views on that game. And for the super hardcore gamers (like myself) reviews are a talking point, a way to form and drive discussion. (edit: That isn't to say that I created a review to court controversy and drive clicks or some shit, but that my review is worded in a way which creates avenues for discussion about the game and the nature of what people want out of a reboot and oh god please don't take this the wrong way) And I think my review accomplishes both of those things. I'm copping a hectic amount of shit for a 7.1 (not any more than others have for much, much higher scores though *cough* 8.8 is a fucking great score *cough*) but it's all part of the process of the discussion.


It did feel like a Doom game, but I don't agree with you. I think Wolfenstein TNO was better (although very different). I haven't liked an Assassin's Creed game in years and I only ever play Zombies mode in Black Ops 3.

It's awesome you're enjoying it as much as you are. So many people are, which is epic. I hope it inspires id and Bethesda to do something good with the Quake franchise, and if they fuck up the MP then even a portal to hell won't save them from my wrath. But for now I'm going back to Stellaris or Dark Souls 3.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. Wasn't trying to give you slack. I appreciate the time you took to respond to me and this makes a lot more sense to me now. I wouldn't even blink if you slammed them on the multiplayer, it is rather bad. Anyways gday mate.
 
B

Baron Von Beans

Member
dlauv said:
DOOM's multiplayer would have been better if there were campaign enemies to fight at the same time you were fighting the enemy team.

An idea for snapmap I guess.
Click to expand...
This is an idea I love. Very few games have done this, adding "scrap" enemies into the mix in addition to the human opponents. Titanfall did iirc, and maybe Anarchy Reigns, but it's a neat concept that I would love to see in this MP. I mainly will do SP and SnapMap, considering I had a very toxic first MP experience with this game yesterday. It didn't end badly, just rubbed me the wrong way, and firms my stance on just enjoying SP and Snap.
 
N

NinjamicWZ

Banned
antitrop said:
It will never happen. People were arguing about review scores in the 90s. At some point, you just have to accept that people will disagree with critics and that's okay. They're not passing on the infallible words of some made up gaming deity, they're just people with opinions like anyone else.

I see this weird "when did people start caring about review scores" sentiment in review threads all the time and the answer is "Always". People have cared about review scores for as long as they have existed and for as long as the internet has given them an opportunity to voice their own opinions.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't see what the difference is between debating someone's opinions on a gaming forum or doing the same thing among yourselves with reviewer's opinions. You make your opinion on anything known and people are then capable of reacting to it.

As long as anyone's opinion matters, everyone's opinion will matter.
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
NinjamicWZ said:
I loved rail gun only matches in Quake 3 most. That was my favorite. So having a set weapon in an arena set up is totally fine with me.
Click to expand...

Railguns only on the last Q3A map.

I have this cherished memory of my high school years where a friend and I had a duel on that map during some LAN party. For about an hour all we did was knock each other off that arena with our railguns. The final score after we gave up trying to make it to 10 kills to end the match was -1 to 0.

sogood.gif
 
D

dmshaposv

Member
Comrade Crunch said:
It's not even just gamers, movie and music buffs do the same things, I've seen discussions get really heated on movie forums in the past, over a single negative review.
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At least people argue over the content of the review there.
Here kids fight on a stupid number.

7 or 8 (which are good/great scores) are considered horrid trash unless they dont have 9s or 10s.

Its ridiculous. I remember greg kasavin once said (during the golden age of gamespot) that 'if you like a game and the score is low, imagine it higher'. And just like that, the number/score became meaningless.
 
B

Bubba_Sparks

Member
Kind of shocked to see some of the low review scores the game is getting. Just based on the campaign mode alone the game is a solid must buy and should be a shoe in for game of the year consideration. I can understand if you don't like first person shooters or the school of design DOOM is hearkening back to, however I do think you should be able to recognize the quality of the craftsmanship that has gone into DOOM's gameplay. This isn't a simplistic shooter, it only comes across as such because the shooting mechanics are sublime and flow beautifully with the excellent enemy and level design. You don't get a game to play this well by accident, and designing a game to flow so smoothly is extremely difficult otherwise most FPS games would attempt to emulate this design paradigm.
 
M

Mr. Tibbs

Member
88% from PC Gamer.

With Doom’s campaign, id Software found a sweet spot nestled somewhere between nostalgia and modernity that celebrates the pulpy sheen of big-budget shooters and resurrects an intense, simplified focus on the shooting itself. Doom sticks a bit too close to home to reinvigorate the genre, but it’s a reminder that FPS games aren’t limited to stop and pop corridors and political melodrama. It’s a reminder that sometimes a controlled, crafted appeal to base desires—going fast, flying high, and swift, tongue-in-cheek demon justice—are more than enough.
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K

KahooTs

Member
It's a useful image to me. It shows in a snapshot that on two accounts IGN were willing to put their name next to purchase advice that is comically irrelevant to my tastes.
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
dlauv said:
That was easy as hell. Like, way too easy. On Ultra Violence. With a controller. You have more than enough ammo and firepower by that point. If I had a complaint about the game, it's that nothing really competes with one of the final
Lazarus
or
Vega
encounters.

I understand that some things that are easy to some players are hard to others, but the point I'm trying to make is that it wasn't a fundamentally poorly designed encounter. In fact, it's kind of tame.
Click to expand...

I was mostly cheesed to hell by the Hell baron drop. Like every other encounter follows the basic rule of, once shit dies down, check point is saved.

This one doesn't save the check point where you think it should - so then you've relaxed into exploration mode, and fuck, you get beat like a red headed step child by two big assholes in a tight arena (they put up barrier walls when they spawn, making it harder to maneuver).

I mean, I don't mind replaying encounters. It feels just about right for the most part. But that repetition can become exacerbated by poor check point placement.

That fight I was describing has a a boring ass corridor that leads up to the meat of the encounter itself. It's like having to fight through a 1/4 of a level to get to a hard boss.

So I mean, as good as the game is in many respects, it's not without flaws.
 
Ixion

Ixion

Member
PlayStation Universe - 9/10

A confident resurgence of one of the FPS genre’s pioneering efforts; DOOM not only manages to boast perhaps the finest single-player campaign in the genre but also a blissfully entertaining multiplayer suite and map editor to boot. Make no mistake, this is DOOM 2.0 and it’s one of the very best shooters you can buy on PS4 right now.
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