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[Dreamwriter]

Are those lodestone posts supposed to be encouraging?, holy shit SE never change:lol

What's wrong with them? They are dealing with every single issue people and reviews have been bitching about, and giving people an extra month without having to pay the fee, which will give people time until the first major patch goes in fixing tons of stuff.

 

[Londa]

Yes, very true. I reply to posts with truth and use proof.

You troll, lie, refuse to back up any claims made, bash games having never played them, and consistently mock posters who bring up valid points by calling them stalkers or just ignore them completely.

It's a wonder you can get away with this garbage.

All of that is what you claim. I don't troll anyone here. I guess you are blinded by the constant trolling I recievd. But that doesn't matter to me. I expect people to get mad with someone who has and unpopular opinion. I will ignore you now. Because I don't have to take you constant bagering anymore. You can backseat mod all to yourself.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

For those of you who missed it, Londa complained in the FFXIV OT about how Square is implementing a feature where it will keep a list of your most recent performed crafts and when selected it will auto-fill the right ingredients to craft it again.

She said she didn't like that. She thinks it's better to have to select all of the materials over and over again for each craft attempt.

I'm not joking.

 

[Kintaro]

What's wrong with them? They are dealing with every single issue people and reviews have been bitching about, and giving people an extra month without having to pay the fee, which will give people time until the first major patch goes in fixing tons of stuff.

The timing is funny though. Late November patch. This second free trial will last until... late-November. SE has done this plenty of times before with patches before its time for you to resub.

"Well, just one more month. This patch is sure to fix everything!"

They're repeating the same exact pattern.

 

[notworksafe]

All of that is what you claim. I don't troll anyone here. I guess you are blinded by the constant trolling I recievd. But that doesn't matter to me. I expect people to get mad with someone who has and unpopular opinion. I will ignore you now. Because I don't have to take you constant bagering anymore. You can backseat mod all to yourself.

[Achievement Unlocked]?
:lol :lol :lol

 

[Mr. Enigma]

Is it sad that I only scan this thread for Londa's posts? :lol

 

[Apath]

Nothing beats Vanguard.

=[
<---- Victim of the hype

 

[LowParry]

Is it sad that I only scan this thread for Londa's posts? :lol

That's what I come here for. Though why the hell she keeps posting here is the question.

attentionwhore.jpeg

 

[Kandinsky]

What's wrong with them? They are dealing with every single issue people and reviews have been bitching about, and giving people an extra month without having to pay the fee, which will give people time until the first major patch goes in fixing tons of stuff.

Yeah lets see if this actually happen and they fix most issues in time for their miracle Mid-December(lol@that date) patch.

Hint: It wont.

 

[HK-47]

That's what I come here for. Though why the hell she keeps posting here is the question.

attentionwhore.jpeg

You really wonder why the irrational do irrational things?

 

[Dreamwriter]

Yeah lets see if this actually happen and they fix most issues in time for their miracle Mid-December(lol@that date) patch.

Hint: It wont.

What major issue are you thinking of that isn't mentioned to be dealt with in either the November or the December patch?

 

[Khrno]

Players will now be able to re-map all functions to any key (other than Esc)

This will keep me happy until March.

 

[Kandinsky]

What major issue are you thinking of that isn't mentioned to be dealt with in either the November or the December patch?

I'm just not believing they will actually fix the stuff they're listing, thats all.

 

[JudgeN]

Bah answered my question with the post above.

 

[Alex]

An extra month is nice, but if I was subscribed I'd be more depressed than ever that the fixes through the end of the year seem to focus on bringing the games interface from '89 to '95. Nothing else is really dwelled on much. =/

Granted, the UI and it's featureset is THAT BAD that, at this rate, it'll probably take years of patches just to catch the current crop, but that doesn't leave much hope for cleaning up the state of the world, gameplay or the games complete zero, zip, zilch content in the end outside of baby tweaks and additions to the miserable leve system.

I'm sure someone will argue for it, but it really is the worst quest direction and design I've seen for MMOs. Their editor and talent driving it is clearly very weak and very uninspired. The universe wide gulf in mechanics between this and everything else aside, for a game and franchise that touts story, how the fuck does it have no story, no lore, no characterization on any part of it...?

At this point I wish they'd just give up on quests, they objectively cannot do them on this framework or with their staff at this time. So at least make it fun to grind and explore the nooks and crannies.

Hopefully they have some big plans put aside, but if they're going to actually come out of their shell and actually, gasp, mingle with their fanbase, bring some real information on the games future.

 

[Londa]

That's what I come here for. Though why the hell she keeps posting here is the question.

attentionwhore.jpeg

Maybe its because I don't care about what you or any of the other flamers think of me. I'm still going to read and comment on topics I have concern about. I'm not afraid to voice my opinion even if its the minority. I also am not going to repeat myself every time a new person trying to look smarter asks me the same question I've already been asked before.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I'm just not believing they will actually fix the stuff they're listing, thats all.

Why not? In FFXI, every time they pre-announced what was going to be in the next patch, they got that in, and a lot more. And it's happened in XIV so far too, though there really haven't been many preannouncements yet. Square-Enix has no previous actions that suggest they won't do exactly what they promised, so you're really just being negative for no reason.

The closest they've come is changing their minds how to implement something, so we got *different* things than what was expected...

 

[fizzelopeguss]

S-E fights to keep their game viable:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23867936&postcount=4555

30 day trial period extension, so 60 days total!

Hell yeah bitches, another month of self cutting and harm? Sign me up motherfuckers.

 

[notworksafe]

This will keep me happy until March.

Indeed. I honestly never expected that. It'll be nice to set hotkeys up to work (mostly) like a real PC game.

 

[Painraze]

This will keep me happy until March.

It doesn't take much to keep you happy, does it?

 

[JudgeN]

An extra month is nice, but if I was subscribed I'd be more depressed than ever that the fixes through the end of the year seem to focus on bringing the games interface from '89 to '95. Nothing else is really dwelled on much. =/

Granted, the UI and it's featureset is THAT BAD that, at this rate, it'll probably take years of patches just to catch the current crop, but that doesn't leave much hope for cleaning up the state of the world, gameplay or the games complete zero, zip, zilch content in the end outside of baby tweaks and additions to the miserable leve system.

I'm sure someone will argue for it, but it really is the worst quest direction and design I've seen for MMOs. Their editor and talent driving it is clearly very weak and very uninspired. The universe wide gulf in mechanics between this and everything else aside, for a game and franchise that touts story, how the fuck does it have no story, no lore, no characterization on any part of it...?

At this point I wish they'd just give up on quests, they objectively cannot do them on this framework or with their staff at this time. So at least make it fun to grind and explore the nooks and crannies.

Hopefully they have some big plans put aside, but if they're going to actually come out of their shell and actually, gasp, mingle with their fanbase, bring some real information on the games future.

I'm trying to understand were your coming from with this point, your saying guildleve's aren't really quest but more just kill monster X @ area Y? Thus the lack of identity correct? Main story missions aren't good enough for filling the gaps about the world? What about class quests?

I like guildleve's for what they are especially crafting leve's, but I do think the game needs more actual "Quests" thus giving me a reason to speak to the NPC in town. The problem is though in most MMO and RPG all together a lot of those quest are bring my X number of items or go kill Z monster and come back and talk to me. I don't see much identity in those types of quest either.

 

[Khrno]

It doesn't take much to keep you happy, does it?

I'm an easy bitch to please.

 

[demigod]

Real smooth notworksafe. So now you try to get people banned for not trying your most fav game by saying their bashing the game, when you actively bash this one at every chance you get.

All of that is what you claim. I don't troll anyone here. I guess you are blinded by the constant trolling I recievd. But that doesn't matter to me. I expect people to get mad with someone who has and unpopular opinion. I will ignore you now. Because I don't have to take you constant bagering anymore. You can backseat mod all to yourself.

Maybe its because I don't care about what you or any of the other flamers think of me. I'm still going to read and comment on topics I have concern about. I'm not afraid to voice my opinion even if its the minority. I also am not going to repeat myself every time a new person trying to look smarter asks me the same question I've already been asked before.

This is really funny coming from you. Back in the beta thread, you would backseat mod when people call you out. You'd whine about people *getting away with stuff* when you were even worse. If you're not afraid of voicing your opinion, why did you had to quick edit your posts after calling people WoW tards and other names?

Why not? In FFXI, every time they pre-announced what was going to be in the next patch, they got that in, and a lot more. And it's happened in XIV so far too, though there really haven't been many preannouncements yet. Square-Enix has no previous actions that suggest they won't do exactly what they promised, so you're really just being negative for no reason.

The closest they've come is changing their minds how to implement something, so we got *different* things than what was expected...

Seriously, did you even play FFXI? Updates were usually at the end of the month so that they can get your money again right before the resub date. Oh and http://www.playonline.com/ff11/event/vanafes2010/reportimg/5d_1845en2.jpg :lol

 

[TAJ]

I'm trying to understand were your coming from with this point, your saying guildleve's aren't really quest but more just kill monster X @ area Y? Thus the lack of identity correct? Main story missions aren't good enough for filling the gaps about the world? What about class quests?

FFXI had all of that, yet it was still filled with side-quests that were self-contained stories. There was also a lot more flavor to the zones... you know, actual landmarks.

 

[JudgeN]

FFXI had all of that, yet it was still filled with side-quests that were self-contained stories. There was also a lot more flavor to the zones... you know, actual landmarks.

"Filled" isn't the word I use to describe FFXI quests but I agree it did have a decent amount quest with actual stories. But there were a ton of bring me "5 bat fangs quests" in FFXI, hell that's how I got my fame up to 10 so I could get the summoner quests in each city. But your right FFXIV is missing this and I hope it is added.

Still with FFXI most of the lore come from the City missions/expansion missions/AF missions/etc.

The landmarks are there in FFXIV, looking at the map I see all kind of castles/ruins/sub towns/etc the problem is the zone are far to big for their own good and these places have super high level monsters around them. Then you have the whole copy paste thing its got going on :lol

 

[Dreamwriter]

Seriously, did you even play FFXI? Updates were usually at the end of the month so that they can get your money again right before the resub date. Oh and http://www.playonline.com/ff11/event/vanafes2010/reportimg/5d_1845en2.jpg :lol

What's any of that have to do with Square implementing content announced for patches? Kandinsky was doubting that Square would actually implement what they announced when their patches were released, I was saying Square doesn't have a history of failing to implement what was preannounced for a patch.

 

[Alex]

I'm trying to understand were your coming from with this point, your saying guildleve's aren't really quest but more just kill monster X @ area Y? Thus the lack of identity correct? Main story missions aren't good enough for filling the gaps about the world? What about class quests?

I like guildleve's for what they are especially crafting leve's, but I do think the game needs more actual "Quests" thus giving me a reason to speak to the NPC in town. The problem is though in most MMO and RPG all together a lot of those quest are bring my X number of items or go kill Z monster and come back and talk to me. I don't see much identity in those types of quest either.

Guildleves basically aren't quests and there's nearly no other interesting quests to be found, the few that there are have either no gameplay or very aged, simplistic gameplay attached to them.

Right now, the world is just empty wallpaper for grinding and gathering, and the grinding is a massive step down from FFXI.

MMOs started moving away from simple kill/collect quests years ago, not to say they don't exist, that'd be bullshit and it'll never happen but you've clearly little modern genre experience if that's what you think is completely littering recent releases. The upcoming Cataclysm expansion probably has one of the most powerful quest engines I've seen in a game, to the point where they're recreating entirely different games within it and basing entire zones based on crazily scripted thematics.

Turbine also made large jumps with their lines across years of releases and updates. Most devs have as experience and expectations rose.

Really, the quests in XIV are even worse than the average in XI. The quests in XI were never good, but they added a layer of presentation that was, at the time, not very common for the genre. In XIV you get truly first generation material with some really low-rate, mostly camera panning cutscenes if you're extremely lucky.

 

[Gravijah]

FFXI had one of the worst quest systems I have ever come across. Hard to tell where they are, what to do and the rewards? Sigh.

 

[Painraze]

Alex nailed it.

I don't want Square to copy Blizzard or Turbine with FF14... I don't want FF14 to be WoW, I play WoW already. I want it to be something different.

The problem with FF14 is the design seems stuck in 1998. You have to at least look at what the market is up to when you are designing a game like this as not many MMO players are going to tolerate the plethora of missteps FF14 has taken.

 

[Alex]

Yeah, but it was flashy at the time where flash in an MMO just wasn't around. It was fun to see. The advanced job quests were especially cool shit back in 2003-2004.

Quality for modern day questing in a lot of online games is really high though in several cases. You'll never avoid some filler, but most good, up to date releases really break the walls of their mechanics often and lay down some incredible zones and chains that just ooze life and designer inspiration.

Every single time you get into it in an FF thread though, you'd swear the genre hasn't moved a muscle since 2002 by the way the fans talk about it. =/

I want it to be something different.

I want it to be different too, but my idea of different was like an evolved FFXI, breaking out of it's older EQ mold some and putting experience and a new budget to high use. Take the combat and the danger of the world, the high focus on art and large set pieces, higher focus on fewer but bigger quest chains and presentation. Really working towards more of an online JRPG that'd stick out amongst the current WRPG crop.

Instead, I just don't think XIV knows what it wants to be. They're constantly at odds with people who want to just group up and grind like XI then they're also trying to cater to solo players supposedly, by giving them the most half baked quest engine in any game of the past 5 years.

 

[JWong]

Alex nailed it.

I don't want Square to copy Blizzard or Turbine with FF14... I don't want FF14 to be WoW, I play WoW already. I want it to be something different.

The problem with FF14 is the design seems stuck in 1998. You have to at least look at what the market is up to when you are designing a game like this as not many MMO players are going to tolerate the plethora of missteps FF14 has taken.

Your statements pretty much counter each other.

You don't want FF14 to be WoW, but you think the design is archaic. WoW is the standard of quality that MMOs should follow. I don't mean that by the game should use the same combat mechanics, the same trade skills. I mean that the game should have quick rewards through a great questing system that fills up the world with quests, it should also have the most intuitive and easy to use UI that is easily customizable, and it should have the ability to easily hook up and friend with anyone in the game.

An MMO can take a different direction, but they need all of these fundamentals that WoW brought to the table.

 

[Painraze]

An MMO can take a different direction, but they need all of these fundamentals that WoW brought to the table.

Perhaps I didn't word my reply correctly.. but yeah I agree with this.

I guess what I was trying to say is FF14 is a bad game, not because it's not like WoW, but because it's completely ignored any in all advancement in the genre. Almost as if it was made in a bubble. Some would say that's good because they don't want another WoW but the problem is, like you said, it's even missing the funamentals that many MMOs have brought to the table over the years.

I don't think you can fix that with a simple patch or two.

 

[Sophia]

Your statements pretty much counter each other.

You don't want FF14 to be WoW, but you think the design is archaic. WoW is the standard of quality that MMOs should follow. I don't mean that by the game should use the same combat mechanics, the same trade skills. I mean that the game should have quick rewards through a great questing system that fills up the world with quests, it should also have the most intuitive and easy to use UI that is easily customizable, and it should have the ability to easily hook up and friend with anyone in the game.

An MMO can take a different direction, but they need all of these fundamentals that WoW brought to the table.

You can maintain great quality without copying WoW's design. Look at what Guild Wars 2 is doing, for example.

 

[TAJ]

An MMO can take a different direction, but they need all of these fundamentals that WoW brought to the table.

Maybe they should try implementing all the fundamentals that FFXI brought to the table first.

 

[Painraze]

You can maintain great quality without copying WoW's design. Look at what Guild Wars 2 is doing, for example.

ArenaNet still observed what has worked and not worked in the MMO genre and then they put their own spin on it.

Final Fantasy 14 seems like it was designed as if it's the first game of its kind.

 

[Sophia]

Final Fantasy 14 seems like it was designed as if it's the first game of its kind.

Seems more like it was designed by a developer and publisher who didn't know what they wanted to do, and pushed it out anyhow.

 

[Khrno]

I see the guildleve system as a source of income, exp/sp, marks and some items. With the rather interesting Faction Leves option.

I do agree that they are no more than repeatable "tasks" or "errands", since everyone is so reluctant to call them quests, that offer decent rewards for the the time involved (haven't done any r30 leves yet, so I can't comment past the r20 ones tho). Can they be adjusted to make them better, or more rewarding? definitively, but as a quick source of the above mentioned, they have put in place an appropriate system.

In respect with "quests", so far we only have the main story ones and the class ones, not a lot unless we combine all the class quests, but that'd be a step up for someone not playing 80+ hours a week. I do wish there were more story-based quests, given by random NPCs in the cities, towns or camps.

Has SE said anything about adding these sort of quests? Not that I remember. Is it a high stretch to hope they will implement these quests in the trimonthly content updates? Not really, we already have class quests given by NPCs other than the leves', and they seem to be taking into consideration and responding accordingly (even if not in a quicker manner) to the player base.

 

[kinoki]

ArenaNet still observed what has worked and not worked in the MMO genre and then they put their own spin on it.

Final Fantasy 14 seems like it was designed as if it's the first game of its kind.

I think the quote from Yahtzee in his review of Dead Space is ample so I'll paraphrase it here: "It looks like it was designed by someone who may at one point have seen a poster for the genre."

 

[JWong]

You can maintain great quality without copying WoW's design. Look at what Guild Wars 2 is doing, for example.

Uh... the first Guild Wars already took a lot of the improvements that WoW brought.

 

[Londa]

You can maintain great quality without copying WoW's design. Look at what Guild Wars 2 is doing, for example.

agreed

 

[notworksafe]

You can maintain great quality without copying WoW's design. Look at what Guild Wars 2 is doing, for example.

Also helps that ArenaNet was founded by ex-Blizzard dudes. They could take a lot of lessons learned with Battle.net and Diablo/Diablo II and put them to use in the backend and "persistant character, instanced world" style of GW.

EDIT: Didn't see the 2 there, sorry. GW2 is also making great progress. No healers/healing archetype class is an idea long coming. There's not a lot of people anymore that want a strictly passive class. The very active combat looks amazing as well. I wonder how much (if any) they will add in an open world sense.

 

[Sophia]

Uh... the first Guild Wars already took a lot of the improvements that WoW brought.

I was specifically referring to Guild Wars 2. However, even thought first Guild Wars arguably took a lot from WoW, it also did a lot unique that I haven't seen duplicated yet.

Also helps that ArenaNet was founded by ex-Blizzard dudes. They could take a lot of lessons learned with Battle.net and Diablo/Diablo II and put them to use in the backend and "persistant character, instanced world" style of GW.

Yeah, it shows. Which makes SquareEnix's shortcomings with FFXIV, particularly in regards to how it's missing stuff FFXI had, all the more apparent.

agreed

Please don't agree with me. Ever.

 

[Londa]

I was specifically referring to Guild Wars 2. However, even thought first Guild Wars arguably took a lot from WoW, it also did a lot unique that I haven't seen duplicated yet.



Please don't agree with me. Ever.

awww I'm hurt :lol

 

[Khrno]

Please don't agree with me. Ever.

Wow dude, that's fucked up.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I said this before I tapped out of FFXI, but SE has mastered the art of timesink in MMORPGs. Traveling takes a long time, limits on how often you can do specific events per week, having to choose between which type of event you want to do with tags, and how inventory/crafting work. Seeing how WOW was able to sell a lot of items in seconds vs FFXIV was silly. Even if FFXIV didn't have that delay when selecting an action it still would have taken a long time. PC people have mice and they still have to conform to console like UI (SE has no excuse for FFXIV since PS3 people can use mouse/kb).

People aren't saying SE should copy wow, but look at advances in games period and make sure you aren't left behind rubbing two sticks together. But nooo it don't take a long time to use a lighter, people will be doing things too quick and advancing pain free. SE, with it's timesink skill at 100 +49 merits, needs to milk that subscription.

I bet their fist was closed tight when they had to let whatever few drops of mercy out to lower the warp timer in FFXIV. They're just going to make everyone except Londa pissed off at their stubbornness if they keep it up.

fire crystal

 

[RocketDarkness]

fire crystal

Lightning crystal!

 

[demosthenes]

I'm just not believing they will actually fix the stuff they're listing, thats all.

Why?

 

[Kandinsky]

Because its SE.

Mark my words, it wont happen.

 

[Torquill]

Because its SE.

Mark my words, it wont happen.

Okay...
...Nega-Londa.

 

[LaneDS]

It'll happen, but waiting two months until after launch to add in something like sorting an inventory is ridiculous. That should have been in six months ago when alpha started.