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[Tchu-Espresso]

periphery vs center

(from reddit)

Fantastic feature for VR

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Right, and I was saying that same subset already bought a PSVR (myself included) and it's not a stretch to assume that a % of that subset probably won't be in for PSVR2. (myself currently included) for various reasons. That is why there are multiple reports of underperforming preorder numbers...a good portion of the "hardcore" are sitting on the fence with PSVR2.

I think that PSVR2 will have more new adopters that never had VR before than those that they LOST due to PSVR1 being a hassle to use.

Word of mouth will be very kind to PSVR2. There are no legitimate reports of underwhelming pre order numbers.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

THANK YOU BRO!!!! Got GT7 for $25. There's only 2 copies left though for anybody else.

I now have for my day one PSVR2 experience........

- GT7
- RE8
- Horizon: CoTM


And I haven't played any of those games before. I might take a few days off when my PSVR2 arrives lol.

Nice!!!

 

[coffinbirth]

I think that PSVR2 will have more new adopters that never had VR before than those that they LOST due to PSVR1 being a hassle to use.

Word of mouth will be very kind to PSVR2. There are no legitimate reports of underwhelming pre order numbers.

I mean, for a LOT of people it IS a hassle to use a wire...now that quality wireless VR exists when that wasn't the case for PSVR1. That doesn't really add up.

And Sony didn't deny preorders being low, just that they were halving production numbers, an important distinction.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-order-disappointment-leads-to-production-cut

https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/31/23579292/sony-playstation-vr2-psvr2-sales-low-preorders-price

 

[Danknugz]

Fantastic feature for VR

It's crazy tech, apparently the eyes shift focus at around 50ms according to this article:

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...rned-off-when-moving-quickly-but-thats-wrong/

Assuming the article is correct, the eye tracker has to capture that movement as it starts, pass it to be processed by the engine in around 34ms if you assume a 16ms frame time for 60fps (because the 120 fps reprojection), if you want to avoid any noticeable latency. I'm not familiar with the eye tracking tech they're using but that doesn't sound to difficult to achieve.

 

[Crayon]

THANK YOU BRO!!!! Got GT7 for $25. There's only 2 copies left though for anybody else.

I now have for my day one PSVR2 experience........

- GT7
- RE8
- Horizon: CoTM


And I haven't played any of those games before. I might take a few days off when my PSVR2 arrives lol.

Me too. Thing is going to stay in the box till friday night and I'm going to take monday off. I can do vr indefinitely. After those long sessions I have a sort of hangover tho. Like real life feels fake lol.

 

[Fafalada]

Assuming the article is correct, the eye tracker has to capture that movement as it starts, pass it to be processed by the engine in around 34ms if you assume a 16ms frame time for 60fps (because the 120 fps reprojection), if you want to avoid any noticeable latency. I'm not familiar with the eye tracking tech they're using but that doesn't sound to difficult to achieve.

50ms motion-2-photon delay is incredibly noticeable to the eye when doing head-tracking(in fact, anything longer than 20ms is) - I don't know if eye-tracking would hold-up with that much latency either. So I'd assume the sensor stack also offers prediction - much like it's done for head/hand tracking - to absorb part of the latency.

But even with above - predicting 50ms starts to get unreliable - so you'd want more optimizations in a 60fps game:
Eye-tracking can be sampled relatively late in the pipeline - it certainly shouldn't start before the second half of that 34ms block (you really shouldn't sample it with game-inputs - but when rendering starts) and then, engine design permitting, there may be options to late-data latch inside the render frame, so you could cut total latency down to only a fraction of the frame-time.

So all in all - I can't say how hard it is on sensor-stack side, but on application side there's quite a lot that goes into this to make it viable, especially at lower refresh games.

 

[Outlier]

Not watching that. I want to experience VR for the first time with this game.
Can't wait!

 

[Crayon]

Not watching that. I want to experience VR for the first time with this game.
Can't wait!

I promise watching it on a screen will do nothing to blunt the real thing. Your first time in vr is going to be fucking badass.

 

[Danknugz]

50ms motion-2-photon delay is incredibly noticeable to the eye when doing head-tracking(in fact, anything longer than 20ms is) - I don't know if eye-tracking would hold-up with that much latency either. So I'd assume the sensor stack also offers prediction - much like it's done for head/hand tracking - to absorb part of the latency.

But even with above - predicting 50ms starts to get unreliable - so you'd want more optimizations in a 60fps game:
Eye-tracking can be sampled relatively late in the pipeline - it certainly shouldn't start before the second half of that 34ms block (you really shouldn't sample it with game-inputs - but when rendering starts) and then, engine design permitting, there may be options to late-data latch inside the render frame, so you could cut total latency down to only a fraction of the frame-time.

So all in all - I can't say how hard it is on sensor-stack side, but on application side there's quite a lot that goes into this to make it viable, especially at lower refresh games.

thanks, you articulated it far better than myself lol

 

[phaedrus]

Mee too. Thing is going to stay in teh box till friday night and I'm going to take monday off. I can do vr indefinitely. After those long sessions I have a sort of hangover tho. Like real life feels fake lol.

Derealization

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I mean, for a LOT of people it IS a hassle to use a wire...now that quality wireless VR exists when that wasn't the case for PSVR1. That doesn't really add up.

I mean, Nah

And Sony didn't deny preorders being low, just that they were halving production numbers, an important distinction.

Sony denied the report

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

――Were there any difficulties in making Gran Turismo 7 compatible with PS VR2?
Yamauchi : In fact, support for PS VR2 was something we had in mind when we started developing Gran Turismo 7. In other words, it was originally produced on the premise of corresponding to VR.
This is just my imagination, but it seems that many titles are retrofitted with VR support. However, we also had a hard time with Gran Turismo Sport, and it's very difficult to make an existing title compatible with VR later.
Therefore, "Gran Turismo 7" was created as "VR native" in advance. Think of this as almost synonymous with running the game at 4K60p (*). In order to move the image with that image quality and speed, you have to make the data fairly light.
Therefore, the most difficult aspect of development was maintaining image quality without increasing the load when moving images. However, thanks to that, the support for PS VR 2 went smoothly.

 

[GHG]

This is just my imagination, but it seems that many titles are retrofitted with VR support.

He's not wrong here.

The downside is that GT7 didn't end up looking as spectacular as it could (and probably should) have but the upside is the fact that we get the full game in VR.

I'll take that trade-off.

 

[ABnormal]

50ms motion-2-photon delay is incredibly noticeable to the eye when doing head-tracking(in fact, anything longer than 20ms is) - I don't know if eye-tracking would hold-up with that much latency either. So I'd assume the sensor stack also offers prediction - much like it's done for head/hand tracking - to absorb part of the latency.

But even with above - predicting 50ms starts to get unreliable - so you'd want more optimizations in a 60fps game:
Eye-tracking can be sampled relatively late in the pipeline - it certainly shouldn't start before the second half of that 34ms block (you really shouldn't sample it with game-inputs - but when rendering starts) and then, engine design permitting, there may be options to late-data latch inside the render frame, so you could cut total latency down to only a fraction of the frame-time.

So all in all - I can't say how hard it is on sensor-stack side, but on application side there's quite a lot that goes into this to make it viable, especially at lower refresh games.

Foveated rendering requires eye tracking to be AT LEAST within 4 milliseconds from tracking to input the coordinate to the processing unit, because it has to be ALWAYS before the actual render begins. And since it has to work even with games which are native on 120 fps, eye tracking has to track at least 240 times per second. That's the bare minimun in this situation. The coordinate can arrive after the render defined the poligons, but resolution and rendering quality must be defined only after eye position has been updated. The window is very narrow, but eye trackers can sample even at higher frequency (480 samples per second).

 

[ABnormal]

――Were there any difficulties in making Gran Turismo 7 compatible with PS VR2?
Yamauchi : In fact, support for PS VR2 was something we had in mind when we started developing Gran Turismo 7. In other words, it was originally produced on the premise of corresponding to VR.
This is just my imagination, but it seems that many titles are retrofitted with VR support. However, we also had a hard time with Gran Turismo Sport, and it's very difficult to make an existing title compatible with VR later.
Therefore, "Gran Turismo 7" was created as "VR native" in advance. Think of this as almost synonymous with running the game at 4K60p (*). In order to move the image with that image quality and speed, you have to make the data fairly light.
Therefore, the most difficult aspect of development was maintaining image quality without increasing the load when moving images. However, thanks to that, the support for PS VR 2 went smoothly.

Well, if true, that would be a HUGE demonstration of dedication towards VR, since lowering the possible visual quality of the flat version of one of the games that represent Sony the most, only to have it in the best condition possible for the niche number of VR gamers, would be sick. But he could simply speak about latency, graphic pipeline, or other similar things. And that would anyway show great dedication with some long term vision.

 

[Romulus]

It's crazy tech, apparently the eyes shift focus at around 50ms according to this article:

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...rned-off-when-moving-quickly-but-thats-wrong/

Assuming the article is correct, the eye tracker has to capture that movement as it starts, pass it to be processed by the engine in around 34ms if you assume a 16ms frame time for 60fps (because the 120 fps reprojection), if you want to avoid any noticeable latency. I'm not familiar with the eye tracking tech they're using but that doesn't sound to difficult to achieve.

I think this is how VR games will start looking better than flat-screen games. There's no way to track the pupils with a TV so you're stuck with rendering that entire screen at 100%. I'm just thinking the tech will eventually be so accurate it's rendering almost nothing except a very specific area at 100% in VR. Seems close to that now.

 

[coffinbirth]

I mean, Nah



Sony denied the report

So wires are a hassle or not? I'm using your words and logic here... not a point I was making, that was all you.

Again, no.

They denied halving production numbers, not low preorder numbers. A distinction I've pointed out twice now.

 

[Icymanipulator]

I was waiting for this, full game is icing on the cake

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

So wires are a hassle or not? I'm using your words and logic here... not a point I was making, that was all you.

Again, no.

They denied halving production numbers, not low preorder numbers. A distinction I've pointed out twice now.

Having one wire is far less of a hassle than twenty

Them not stating anything about pre order numbers doesn’t mean they are disappointing their expectations

 

[coffinbirth]

Having one wire is far less of a hassle than twenty

Them not stating anything about pre order numbers doesn’t mean they are disappointing their expectations

Your hyperbole and lack of comprehension here reeks of fanboism. Is that what this is?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Your hyperbole and lack of comprehension here reeks of fanboism. Is that what this is?

Someone claiming that one wire is a huge turnoff for someone that put up with far more including a breakout box reeks of fanboyism. Is that what that is?

 

[coffinbirth]

Someone claiming that one wire is a huge turnoff for someone that put up with far more including a breakout box reeks of fanboyism. Is that what that is?

I didn't say that...but it's clear that reading comprehension is not a quality you possess.

 

[Crayon]

Should have thought about this before but it makes a lot of sense for them to go on the hi-end side of things since they are known for graphics. psv2 can apparently keep the graphics on par with their games on TV. That is a mad goal to hit but they did it and surprise, it costs money.

 

[sachos]

OLED and HDR, imagine how good those break lights look at night. Can't wait for John from DF to do a review of this headset, he is really good at explaining why tech is impressive and tries to describe how it feels to use it, its important for new people to understand.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I didn't say that...but it's clear that reading comprehension is not a quality you possess.

You’re dumb if you think a wire is going to be a massive hinderance for adoption

 

[Teh Chosen Juan]

i may or may not have just ordered the PSVR2 today and finally got GT7 based off of these impressions.... gettin pumped! anyone know of any videos or blogs about how it compares to quest 2? like, someone that's played both. i have used the quest 2. just want to hear more about how much IRL psvr2 is better than quest 2.

 

[mckmas8808]

Right, and I was saying that same subset already bought a PSVR (myself included) and it's not a stretch to assume that a % of that subset probably won't be in for PSVR2. (myself currently included) for various reasons. That is why there are multiple reports of underperforming preorder numbers...a good portion of the "hardcore" are sitting on the fence with PSVR2.

And yet 30% of all PS5 owners never had a PS4. So what about these new Playstation gamers? You think they may give PSVR2 a shot?

 

[Crayon]

i may or may not have just ordered the PSVR2 today and finally got GT7 based off of these impressions.... gettin pumped! anyone know of any videos or blogs about how it compares to quest 2? like, someone that's played both. i have used the quest 2. just want to hear more about how much IRL psvr2 is better than quest 2.

The channel sadlyitsbradly does exclusively vr and has had some impressions on it.

 

[lukilladog]

Everyone has found a different cause for motion sickness in VR (blurriness on this case), which most likely indicates that nobody really knows or that they don't want to admit that it is not solved yet

 

[mckmas8808]

Looks like Walmart canceled by GT7 order. The seller cancelled it actually.

 

[coffinbirth]

And yet 30% of all PS5 owners never had a PS4. So what about these new Playstation gamers? You think they may give PSVR2 a shot?

Why would you even posit this question in regards to "hardcore" users? That doesn't even make sense.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Looks like Walmart canceled by GT7 order. The seller cancelled it actually.

That sucks. Mine still under preparing status..

 

[Solarstrike]

 

[Brigandier]

GT7
Horizon
RE8
Moss 1 and 2
NMS

Yeah I'm gonna be playing so much VR I'll be like the lawnmower man with this shit....

 

[THE DUCK]

――Were there any difficulties in making Gran Turismo 7 compatible with PS VR2?
Yamauchi : In fact, support for PS VR2 was something we had in mind when we started developing Gran Turismo 7. In other words, it was originally produced on the premise of corresponding to VR.
This is just my imagination, but it seems that many titles are retrofitted with VR support. However, we also had a hard time with Gran Turismo Sport, and it's very difficult to make an existing title compatible with VR later.
Therefore, "Gran Turismo 7" was created as "VR native" in advance. Think of this as almost synonymous with running the game at 4K60p (*). In order to move the image with that image quality and speed, you have to make the data fairly light.
Therefore, the most difficult aspect of development was maintaining image quality without increasing the load when moving images. However, thanks to that, the support for PS VR 2 went smoothly.

I officially eat my words!

Though it's bitter sweet, I'm glad to hear it's had so much thought and the game will be better as a result, so I'd rather be wrong anyhow.

 

[DryvBy]

GT7
Horizon
RE8
Moss 1 and 2
NMS

Yeah I'm gonna be playing so much VR I'll be like the lawnmower man with this shit....

I played RE7 in VR and it's night and day how fear works. I also played GT Sport which was limited but had something.

NMS? That was off the chain. I didn't expect to enjoy that game even more but they nailed VR. And it was the first VR game I played on console with a friend. It felt like magic

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think Sony will incentivize the next Ace Combat to be fully VR as well.

The reviews for Ace Combat 7's VR modes were great, but just that it was a short experience.

Built from the ground up to support VR across the board on PS5, this will be a killer app.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sega should put Alien Isolation in PSVR2 as well.

 

[Crayon]

I think Sony will incentivize the next Ace Combat to be fully VR as well.

The reviews for Ace Combat 7's VR modes were great, but just that it was a short experience.

Built from the ground up to support VR across the board on PS5, this will be a killer app.

God ace combat and wipeout felt like psvr1 being all it could be.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

God ace combat and wipeout felt like psvr1 being all it could be.

PSVR1 was proof of concept. PSVR2 is execution. PSVR3 will be a polished experience and more mainstream.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

PSVR1 was proof of concept. PSVR2 is execution. PSVR3 will be a polished experience and more mainstream.

I hope psvr3 launches with ps6 and not two years later

 

[Romulus]

I think Sony will incentivize the next Ace Combat to be fully VR as well.

The reviews for Ace Combat 7's VR modes were great, but just that it was a short experience.

Built from the ground up to support VR across the board on PS5, this will be a killer app.

Ace Combat devs were hinting about a new VR coming a couple of months back

 

[Crayon]

Ace Combat devs were hinting about a new VR coming a couple of months back

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

I didn't say that...but it's clear that reading comprehension is not a quality you possess.

When you can't win an argument you resort to insult the person you have a conversation with in person also or you are so good only behind your keyboard?

 

[THE DUCK]

I'd take that and maybe a dose of star wars squadrons.....

 

[Crayon]

I'd take that and maybe a dose of star wars squadrons.....

I felt so disapointed by that game. Maybe I should play more. The dogfighting gameplay falls into the pit of feeling like flying endless loops chasing each other's tails. I always told myself I should try playing more of it though. I was just dipping in for a few hours to check it out.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

I don't even like cars and racing game. And this still make me want to buy psvr 2 and gear to play it lol.

But I will wait for more games to decide to buy it or not.

 

[ABnormal]

I hope psvr3 launches with ps6 and not two years later

Unlikely. It would work only with PS6 and it would need a minimum installed base. Launching it with PS6 would mean selling an insignificant number of VR sets, and would be better to wait one or two more years to simultaneously have some installed base and to leverage tech and price more when at VR3 launch.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Unlikely. It would work only with PS6 and it would need a minimum installed base. Launching it with PS6 would mean selling an insignificant number of VR sets, and would be better to wait one or two more years to simultaneously have some installed base and to leverage tech and price more when at VR3 launch.

Why would it only work with ps6?