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Hardware Unboxed - DLSS4 vs DLSS3

willothedog

willothedog

Member
jensen-pcmr.png
 
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O

owandeseis

Member
Everything related to series 5000 and the Nvidia's announcement sucked, but this DLSS 4 thing was a blessing, it's been a free 15-20% performance gain (or IQ gain) lately, DLSS 2-3 was very good in Quality, it was good in Balanced too, but i never felt using Performance mode was worth over lowering settings, the gap between this mode and even Balanced one was too big.

With DLSS 4 i've been using it on games like KCD 2 on Performance mode and the image quality is really really good, comparable to DLSS3 Q, bit better on some stuff (better in motion, less ghosting and more IQ when not moving), bit worse in some other (felt it resolved water a bit worse for example).

It's far from perfect, there's still a long way to go, and hopefully we'll get to a point where even Ultra Performance is very good for big perfomance gains and 120+FPS standard in games, but it's a big step, we're at the point where DLSS4 Q gives you a 100% extra performance more or less for relatively small IQ loss, 10 years ago, in order to get that extra performance, you had to lower settings to a point where the game looked like a gen behind.

I'm curious about AMD's next solution, what they showed a month ago on Performance mode was really impressive too
 
Gaiff

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
  • Texture Details: DLSS4 Performance often looks as good or better than DLSS3 Quality. Both are better than Native+TAA in general. DLSS4 Performance tends to be even better than DLSS3 DLAA, delivering that "better than native" quality NVIDIA promised back at the RTX 20 series launch
  • Edge Stability: DLSS4 Performance is also superior to DLSS3 Quality in edge stability in general, but there are cases where the higher internal rendering of DLSS3 Quality allows it to be more stable than DLSS4 Performance
  • DLSS4 is a game changer for texture quality and blur compared to DLSS3, both at rest and in motion
  • Ghosting: It hasn't improved much if at all. It is hit or miss, with games like Cyberpunk seeing improvements with DLSS4, but some games like Rift Apart see a regression where there is slight ghosting in places there previously wasn't. However, ghosting is rarely a problem and those are worst-case scenarios
  • Disocclusion Artifacts hardly see improvements with Tim stating DLSS3 Quality vs DLSS4 Quality has DLSS3 as the winner. It should be noted that he found it very difficult to find disocclusion problems while gaming and he had to pause and analyze the games frame by frame to see a difference. The one exception is TLOU Part II where DLSS4 has worse disocclusion artifacts than DLSS3
  • Hair: It doesn't change. Both DLSS3 and DLSS4 are prone to aliasing and are worse compared to DLAA or native TAA
  • Particles Ghosting: Is better on DLSS4 when comparing the same preset. They ghost significantly less on DLSS4, even at lower presets. However, the quality of particles is still better at DLSS3 Quality vs DLSS4 Performance. DLSS4 Balanced is closer to DLSS3 Quality in terms of particles quality
  • Transparency: In general doesn't improve much as it is generally tied to the internal render resolution
  • Fine Details: Are significantly improved with DLSS4. DLSS4 Balanced is generally on par with DLSS3 Quality. Grates and fences are more stable on DLSS4. They still look worse than native
  • Vegetation: Trees and leaves see a big improvement where DLSS4 Balanced matches DLSS3 Quality. Some big wins are seen with DLSS4 Performance, it looks much better than DLLS3 Quality, almost as good as DLSS4 Balanced, but not quite. Fine details such as tree branches see less of an improvement, but are still a bit better with DLSS4
  • Grass: Also sees large improvements with DLSS4 Performance looking less pixelated and grainy than DLSS3 Quality. This can be game dependent as in Veilguard, no large difference was seen. In Forbidden West, DLSS4 Balanced looks similar to DLSS3 Quality. Overall, DLSS4 Performance or Balanced are very good now for grass. This wasn't the case before
  • Fences and grates: Are much better on DLSS4. DLSS4 Performance cannot always match DLSS3 Quality, but it gets close enough
  • Cloths: Like texture quality, are also largely improved with DLSS4 Performance often being on par with DLSS3 Quality, but you sometimes need DLSS4 Balanced
  • Water Quality: Not much of a difference in water quality. In Jedi Survivor, DLSS4 Performance even looks a bit worse than DLSS3 Performance. In Forbidden West, DLSS4 Performance is slightly upgraded over DLSS3 Performance, but in general, the same preset quality produces similar results
  • Rain: Doesn't change much, but snow particles on DLSS4 Balanced are comparable to DLSS3 Quality
  • Overall: Tim finds DLSS4 very impressive and says if DLSS3 Quality is 1440p gaming with high textures, then DLSS4 is 4K gaming with ultra textures

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Buggy Loop

Buggy Loop

Member
Witchcraft

“DLSS4 Performance tends to be even better than DLSS3 DLAA”

What did I say for Switch 2?

Creeping Parks And Recreation GIF


If it had a performance penalty but had to stay at quality for image quality to not be a pixel soup then I could see it not being used on lower tier ampere, but the table completely flips when performance is that fucking good in image quality.

No wonder Nintendo picked nvidia in the end even though AMD aggressively tried to win the contract according to rumours.

The software stack is now more important than ever.
 
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Buggy Loop

Buggy Loop

Member
Imagine AMD is late to party but because they went with transformer model? That would be a nice surprise…

But I have a feeling it will be CNN and catch up with DLSS 2?

They kind of neglected ML so I don’t see them catching up anytime soon. I would fall off my chair if they do.
 
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winjer

winjer

Member
OmegaSupreme said:
Amd has their work cut out for them to catch up.
Click to expand...

Nvidia releasing their Transformer model upscaler, just as AMD is getting ready to release it's first AI upscaler, was a 4D chess move.

My bet is that AMD will catch up do DLSS CNN upscaler. But will be left behind compared to DLSS4.
 
64gigabyteram

64gigabyteram

Reverse groomer.
the only good thing to come from this gen- thank god nvidia didnt lock it to the 5000 series

dont have a 4k monitor though so the differences in fine detail & clarity will likely go over my head :messenger_expressionless:
 
bender

bender

What time is it?
TVexperto said:
How did you watch the video when it was posted 11 minutes ago and video was just released 35 minutes ago when its 30 minutes long? hmm
Click to expand...

He watched it at 12x speed utilizing the listening skills he honed in as a small child when his parents forced him to listen to the Alvin and Chipmunks Christmas Album ad nauseum.
 
Gaiff

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Three said:
You have a confusing typo there.
Click to expand...
Oops, meant DLSS4 Performance looks as good as DLSS3 Quality. Surprised I didn’t fuck up more often. How many times can a man write DLSS in a single post?

BennyBlanco said:
Do we still have to manually set this up game by game in the Nvidia app? I messed around with it in a few games, and it is indeed great.
Click to expand...
I think so. The developers have to change it themselves. It doesn’t just universally update.
 
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Gonzito

Gonzito

Gold Member
BennyBlanco said:
Do we still have to manually set this up game by game in the Nvidia app? I messed around with it in a few games, and it is indeed great.
Click to expand...

Hello papi, my recommendation is to download DLSS swapper application, it will recognize your games very effectively unlike the awful nvidia app which works like shit and its quick and simple
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
I can confirm from forcing DLSS4 Transformer model in MH Wilds benchmark that the IQ is a shocking improvement over the default DLSS3 that it ships with

Hopefully the final game client can also be forced this way and not trigger whatever anti-cheat Capcpom has implemented in MH Wilds
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
Buggy Loop said:
Imagine AMD is late to party but because they went with transformer model? That would be a nice surprise…

But I have a feeling it will be CNN and catch up with DLSS 2?

They kind of neglected ML so I don’t see them catching up anytime soon. I would fall off my chair if they do.
Click to expand...
AMD will wait for Sony to develop a Transformer model for them like they waited for Sony to develop PSSR for them

So AMD owners will get Transformer model only when Sony gets around to it for PS6 I guess

And they'll need to buy a new video card to get it unlike Nvidia which has back ported Transformer model to all RTX capable cards
 
winjer

winjer

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
AMD will wait for Sony to develop a Transformer model for them like they waited for Sony to develop PSSR for them

So AMD owners will get Transformer model only when Sony gets around to it for PS6 I guess

And they'll need to buy a new video card to get it unlike Nvidia which has back ported Transformer model to all RTX capable cards
Click to expand...

Sony didn't develop an upscaler for AMD. It was a joint collaboration.
One that has been further extended.
 
Mithos

Mithos

Member
Gonzito said:
Hello papi, my recommendation is to download DLSS swapper application, it will recognize your games very effectively unlike the awful nvidia app which works like shit and its quick and simple
Click to expand...
This will only switch the DLL's though but not switch the usage from CNN to Transformer model DLSS, right?
 
Tunned

Tunned

Member
Well fudge, DLSS 4.0 still does not fix the ghosting trails behind cars in racing games. Oh well, will have to wait for DLSS 4.5/5.0.
 
Zathalus

Zathalus

Member
I finally got to test DLSS4 this week once my new GPU arrived. Remarkable in how well it works. I tried the new patch for Hogwarts Legacy with DLSS4+Ray Reconstruction, and the sheer detail DLSS4 is able to restore is astonishing. I just finished it on the PS5 Pro while between GPUs and the difference is absolutely remarkable, honestly not something YouTube videos do justice.
 
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