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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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O

Oni Jazar

Member
alterego said:
How come Universal is the only studio who's HD-DVD exclusive? Is it because Blu-Ray doesn't have something they want or do they have some particular vested interest in HD-DVD?
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I'd like to know their reasoning behind this too. Some have suggested that they got burned when supporting Sony's UMD format so they are not as likely to trust them again. Some have suggested support/benefits from MS to stay the course. Whatever the case and as exclusive as they've been, it doesn't seem like they are as adamant to HD DVD exlusivity as Fox, Sony and Disney have been on Blu-ray. Every opportunity those three get they proclaim the benefits of their one format future. Universal on the other hand has been just a little more quiet.
 
P

Petrarca

Banned
Very good read about format war ......


In other high-def news, we've got the first reports on actual unit software sales numbers, though the numbers come from Sony Computer Entertainment America (which has an obvious bias). Next Generation magazine has reported Sony's claim that 439,000 Blu-ray movie discs have sold in the U.S., while 438,000 HD-DVDs have sold. We believe these numbers are format to date. It will be interesting to see if any third party tracking companies release unit sales numbers to confirm Sony's claims. Still, they don't seem out of line with the data we've seen from Nielsen VideoScan recently.

Meanwhile, Newsweek magazine has posted an interesting story recently that has relevance to the HD format war. The piece indicates that the adult film industry is in the middle of its worst software sales slump in years, in part impacted by the sheer volume of free adult content available online. That would stand in sharp contrast to the notion that the adult industry is powerful enough to influence the HD-DVD/Blu-ray format war. In fact, despite the free content that's already online, industry analysts see the most profitable part of the porn market moving from DVD directly to the Internet... bypassing HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc entirely. Several adult producers have told us here at The Bits that the ultimate goal is to deliver high-definition adult content directly to computers and DVRs via broadband, without any physical media involved.

Here's yet another major HD story, and it's breaking news: A hacker or hackers on the Doom9 forums are reporting that they've actually managed to discover the so-called "processing key" that allows them to circumvent the AACS DRM protection on ALL HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc software. Naturally, the AACS Licensing Administrator is "investigating the claims." This could end up being a MAJOR story, so we'll watch how it develops. Reminds me of a classic Scotty quote from one of the Trek films: "The more they over think the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." You can read more here at InfoWorld and here at engadget.

Finally today, I'm tickled to learn that I'm not the only media analyst that's earned the ire of a select group of... shall we say, passionate?... early adopters on the Net. CNet executive editor David Carnoy has apparently been flamed too by HD-DVD enthusiasts online for daring to suggest that HD-DVD may not have a rosy future. You can read his amusing editorial reaction http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6690707-1.html?tag=slide_1

You know, the funny thing about all this is that I really like both HD-DVD and Blu-ray Disc just as video formats. They both deliver fantastic quality and features. But technically and quality-wise, this format war is basically a wash. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that if this battle is going to be decided by anything, it will be other factors. Like which studios support each format, which manufacturers support each format, what the software and hardware sales trends are, etc. And in each of those areas, Blu-ray has developed a clear edge.

Let's look at these simple facts: Of the 12 major and mini-major Hollywood studios (Fox, Disney, MGM, Sony, Lionsgate, Paramount, New Line, HBO, Warner Bros, Universal, DreamWorks and The Weinstein Company) 9 support Blu-ray, 5 of them exclusively. Only 6 support HD-DVD, just 2 of them exclusively (one studio, DreamWorks, remains uncommitted). Not counting computer hardware or budget brands, Blu-ray Disc has 9 major set-top hardware manufacturers behind it (Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, Philips, Panasonic, LG, Mitsubishi, Thomson, Sharp), while HD-DVD boasts just two (Toshiba and now LG). HD-DVD is an add-on to Microsoft's Xbox 360, while Blu-ray is built into EVERY Sony PlayStation 3. Nielsen VideoScan is reporting that in software sales, Blu-ray has virtually erased the sales lead enjoyed by HD-DVD since the formats were launched, and is now outselling HD-DVD by a 2 to 1 (and growing) margin.

I can understand that some people just love HD-DVD and have had great experiences with it. We have too. I understand that some people hate Sony for perceived corporate arrogance. I'm not a big fan of their tactics either, particularly how they went around the DVD Forum to develop their format. But let's face it - the biggest corporate cheerleader for HD-DVD seems to be Microsoft, which isn't exactly comforting either. All of those issues aside, however, how do you argue with the facts that are clearly becoming obvious - namely, ALL those things I just mentioned above? Frankly, the best sales pitch the HD-DVD camp seems to be able to make right now is: "Hey, we've got DVD right in the name! Plus cheap off-brand players are on the way! And porn!" I guess I have to be the guy who states the obvious, but doesn't that seem a little odd to anyone?
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http://www.digitalbits.com/#mytwocents
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Pirates 1 and 2 Now have their promotional 10% discount applied for those who were waiting.
 
O

Oni Jazar

Member
I'm glad to see that he agrees with me.

As I said earlier, I love both formats. But I just don't see any circumstance in which HD-DVD can evolve into a viable mass market consumer video format. I certainly can't recommend in good conscience that Bits readers commit to HD-DVD right now. I tell most readers who ask me about the format war to just stick with DVD, and wait until it's all over. But if they're prepared to risk their money now, and are eager to do so, I have to tell them that Blu-ray is the better bet.

Frankly, I wish this format war had never happened. I am SO sick and tired of endlessly debating the merits of one of these formats versus the other. And I'm tired of watching early adopters backbiting each other at every turn. I'd rather just be talking about all the great films being released on disc in high-definition. I truly don't care which format wins, as long as one wins. But as long as there are two competing formats, we ALL lose. Period. The home video industry is not like videogaming. People do not have the patience for two or even three separate formats. They want to go to the store, buy a disc and know that it's going to work when they get home. It's that simple.

I'd hate for the high-definition video format war to have the same outcome as the high-resolution audio format war did. DVD-Audio versus SACD ended in a stalemate, and most people just stuck with CDs or moved to MP3 downloads. But mark my words, if the HD-DVD/Blu-ray war lingers on, that's exactly where we're headed. I think Stephen Colbert said it best: "The winner will be the one you DON'T buy."

For the good of the video industry as a whole, and for the benefit of film fans everywhere, this format war needs to end and SOON. So how long do we all have to wait before we start acknowledging the elephant in the room: One of these formats is already winning... and, for better or worse, it isn't HD-DVD.
Click to expand...

http://www.digitalbits.com/#mytwocents
 
M

Meier

Member
What I don't understand is why it's so imperative it end now that Blu-Ray has taken the lead? Why wasn't it imperative for the first year or so when HD DVD was winning? Agenda much?
 
B

bud

Member
Meier said:
What I don't understand is why it's so imperative it end now that Blu-Ray has taken the lead? Why wasn't it imperative for the first year or so when HD DVD was winning? Agenda much?
Click to expand...

uhm...are you serious?
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Meier said:
What I don't understand is why it's so imperative it end now that Blu-Ray has taken the lead? Why wasn't it imperative for the first year or so when HD DVD was winning? Agenda much?
Click to expand...
Why didn't it just end when the affiliated Blu-Ray companies announced plans for that FIRST, before Toshiba/NEC announced their plans for AOD (which we now know as HD-DVD)? Maybe the point is that it's gone on too long already...
 
M

Meier

Member
jjasper said:
Man I went to go get The Departed last night and no one had either HD DVD or Blu ray versions, it sucked.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they were sold out at the Best Buy I went to on Tuesday. That tin case they had on the standard def DVD was very slick.. almost tempted me to buy it!
 
J

jjasper

Member
Meier said:
Yeah, they were sold out at the Best Buy I went to on Tuesday. That tin case they had was sick.. almost tempted me to buy it!
Click to expand...

Yeah I was close to just getting it, but I have come to the point where I just want HD movies now. The guy at best buy said they sold out of both on Tuesday and wasn't sure when they would get more. I guess I will be ordering on Amazon (and preordering the Prestige so this doesn't happen for it too)
 
Y

yacobod

Banned
amazon is ftw

w/prime 2 day shipping is free, no taxes, and 10% off on all hd discs, cant beat that, cheaper than shopping at B&M stores, and i dont have to drive around, very convenient
 
J

jjasper

Member
Yeah but my prime trial (will probably by the $70 or whatever at some point) is over and I missed out on the 10% thing but it is still a great deal as the departed is only $23 and it is $29 at BB.
 
S

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Meier said:
*checks dates* Okay, first 6/8 months.
Click to expand...

HD-DVD Never had this much Studio Support, never had this momentum, and never had the manufacturer support. (Comparatively)

Furthermore, there are no signs of this momentum changing on the blu-ray front for many months.. hence the argument that this war needs to end.
 
M

Meier

Member
The Main Event said:
Is the 10% deal still on for those who want to benefit it? Or was it only available during the holiday period?
Click to expand...

It was only before the new year -- you had to buy either a player or 3 discs and that got you 10% off for the entire next year. I've definitely been using Amazon to get all my discs and just went ahead and ordered The Departed and pre-ordered Babel. Both of them for $50.59 or whatever with 2-day shipping is definitely a steal. I wish I had bit the bullet on it yesterday so I could have The Departed by the weekend. I got a 3-month trial to prime, so I've got about a month and a half left to enjoy it.

I was curious what the first week price would be for Departed, so I decided to take a look while I was there at BB is all. Ended up getting Table Tennis for $20 and my girlfriend got Kirby Squeak Squad. :)
 
O

Oni Jazar

Member
Meier said:
What I don't understand is why it's so imperative it end now that Blu-Ray has taken the lead? Why wasn't it imperative for the first year or so when HD DVD was winning? Agenda much?
Click to expand...

Because then we were still missing two huge pieces of the puzzle. Namely the Xbox 360 HD DVD addon and the PS3. Both of those products have greatly swayed the outcome.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
It's always been imperative to end the format war, not just now that BD is ahead. The only difference is that until November, BD hadn't really led their hand yet, so people were waiting to at least see how they did once they got serious.

FWIW, lots of pro-HD-DVD folks were calling for an end to the format war and "it's all over" the second the first buggy BD players hit the market last Summer. That's be an agenda, too. And yes, lots of people with a pro-BD agenda want to call it now while the lead is in their lap for the first time, even for a second. But plenty of people who are pro-either-side have been wanting the war to be over one way or the other since the beginning. I did, and I thought BluRay had the best chances of success, so I bet on that. But had HD-DVD been a clear winner (ie stuios lined up to support it) before teh PS3 launched I probably woudl have waited for a PS3 drop and set myself up with either a 360/drive or stand-alone.
 
Y

ypo

Member
"Universals dismisses Blu-ray's claim of software supremacy during the month of January, pointing to the fact that U didn't release any new HD DVD titles during that period."

Is this supposed to be good for HD-DVD? He basically admits Universals is the only driving force behind HD-DVD.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
ypo said:
"Universals dismisses Blu-ray's claim of software supremacy during the month of January, pointing to the fact that U didn't release any new HD DVD titles during that period."

Is this supposed to be good for HD-DVD? He basically admits Universals is the only driving force behind HD-DVD.
Click to expand...

It's not unlike Sony's claim that Wii is an impulse purchase. Bad PR.
 
B

Bebpo

Banned
yacobod said:
my departed hd dvd came in the mail yesterday, i watched it last night, it was glorious
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It's a good transfer, but I'm seriously getting pissed at VC-1 encoded films. Maybe it's just personal tastes, but I hate the way they blend things with VC-1 to give a soft look. Kills the detail IMO and doesn't look in "HD" as I expect my next-gen movies to look. Too bad it looks like Warner is set on VC-1 for life :(

Although on second thought I think I just have an issue with Warner VC-1 titles. Universal's VC-1 titles are very high detail and sharp looking. So maybe Warner just sucks at encoding and thinks smoothing out the details is a good thing.
 
J

jjasper

Member
ypo said:
"Universals dismisses Blu-ray's claim of software supremacy during the month of January, pointing to the fact that U didn't release any new HD DVD titles during that period."

Is this supposed to be good for HD-DVD? He basically admits Universals is the only driving force behind HD-DVD.
Click to expand...

Not like it really matters, outside of children of men they don't really make movies people care about anymore (or at least haven't in the past year or so). Unless they were going to bring bust out some stuff from the their glory days.
 
The Main Event

The Main Event

Member
Bebpo said:
It's a good transfer, but I'm seriously getting pissed at VC-1 encoded films. Maybe it's just personal tastes, but I hate the way they blend things with VC-1 to give a soft look. Kills the detail IMO and doesn't look in "HD" as I expect my next-gen movies to look. Too bad it looks like Warner is set on VC-1 for life :(

Although on second thought I think I just have an issue with Warner VC-1 titles. Universal's VC-1 titles are very high detail and sharp looking. So maybe Warner just sucks at encoding and thinks smoothing out the details is a good thing.
Click to expand...

It's looking terrific on my HD set (Sony KDF-E60A20) running on a Toshiba HD-A2, HDMI at 1080i.

What player and what television do you have? Have you tried to toggle between 720p and 1080i to see if there's any differences?
 
B

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
salesrank-1-1-All.jpg


what the hell caused both to drop like that? post valentines day?
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Bad_Boy said:
salesrank-1-1-All.jpg


what the hell caused both to drop like that? post valentines day?
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and to think i got flamed for suggesting it was plausible that we were seeing a sales spike from people who'd just got hd-dvd or blu-ray catching up on previously released titles.

not saying that's what this is, and we all know that the amazon tracking isn't the best way of following this, but i don't see why it was unusual to suggest a period of higher sales for the few months following the two big releases of the hd-dvd add on and the ps3.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It disappoints me that some people want to see both formats fail (no one here in particular, just a common sentiment all over). I understand it comes from the consumer urge "DVDs just fine.. don't sell me more shit", but DVD was always going to stick around for people who just want to watch a movie, but what about a decent HD standard for new TVs?

I'm very glad to have the option of watching HD movies.... and I'm not even one of the people with an "HD-ready budget" :)
 
S

sonycowboy

Member
sonycowboy said:
They've got updated numbers for the battle on the latest issue with the combo discs included.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hmr020407/index.php

Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD (Week ended Jan 21) -

YTD: Blu-Ray 100 vs HD-DVD 50.51
LTD: Blu-Ray 82.3 vs HD-DVD 100

Essentially, Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD 2-1 vs the previous listing of 2.5 to one (which did not consider the HD-DVD combo discs)
Click to expand...

Weekly update on the Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD VideoScan sales*

YTD: Blu-Ray 100 vs HD-DVD 49.21
LTD: Blu-Ray 87.76 vs HD-DVD 100

*Includes combo sales.

Essentially the same as last week with Blu-Ray outselling HD-DVD 2-1 and gaining another 5% towards matching HD-DVD's LTD sales.
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
BocoDragon said:
I understand it comes from the consumer urge "DVDs just fine.. don't sell me more shit",
Click to expand...

HD discs are not for these people. High def format targets those with High def tvs - in particular, those with 42" plus tvs. By the end of this year, big screen tvs will replace many tube tvs in homes. You can now get a quality 42" plasma or LCD, or RP for less than $2000. This is huge!
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I want one side to win, and I own both formats. Although I'll be pissed off that my (for example) HDDVD player isn't much use, it'll still be fine for playing the discs I already have, and its great at upscaling.
 
P

Petrarca

Banned
Blu-ray friendly studios join forces to promote blu-ray in UK ....at the dawn of PS3 launch

http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2007/02/bluray_friendly.html#more

A number of home entertainment studios have joined forces to jointly promote the Blu-ray high definition disc format in the UK.

Buena Vista Home Entertainment, Lions Gate Home Entertainment, Paramount Home Entertainment, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment, and Warner Brothers Home Entertainment, have pledged to work together in recognition that by uniting, they have a better chance of getting the message across that Blu-ray should be the HD disc format of choice

A spokesperson from each company represented gave their views on the new initiaitve at a London press conference this week.

Anthony Peet, Managing Director, Buena Vista Home Entertainment said that the company was excited to be joining with other distributors, and that Blu-ray offered enormous potential for home entertainment.

Zygi Kamasa, CEO, Lions Gate UK, gave the statistic that over 170 companies are now supporting Blu-ray, and there's a great commitment to delivering a wide variety of content on the new format.

Charlie McAuley, Managing Director, Paramount Pictures Home Entertainment, said that 2007 would see a lot of strong releases on the Blu-ray format. "The additional functionality, sound and
picture quality really provides us with the best possible way to showcase our product."

Andy Armstrong, Managing Director, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, unsurprisingly pushed the PS3 as a major factor in handing Blu-ray success. "The UK market is poised for huge growth," he added.

Steven Leighton, Managing Director - UK, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment, said that the success of Blu-ray in the US would give the UK market significant opportunity for growth, as the number of Blu-ray players on the market increases.

John Stanley, Managing Director, Warner Home Video, said, "The early signs of interest consumers are showing towards the High Definition revolution are incredibly exciting for us all in the Home Entertainment market, and by working together in this way we can guarantee our consumers are receiving a clearer message to help them understand just how good it really is."
Click to expand...
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
Petrarca said:
Blu-ray friendly studios join forces to promote blu-ray in UK ....at the dawn of PS3 launch

http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2007/02/bluray_friendly.html#more
Click to expand...

The biggest surprise to me is that Warner and Paramount joined in on the promotion. So far they've let the "exclusive" studios promote Blu-ray. I think this might be the first where both have actively joined hands with the rest.

Looking at the HD DVD upcoming releases, I can't help but feel that HD DVD is about to get dropped real quick by both Warner and Paramount. They both could have dealt a serious blow to Blu-ray in Jan and Feb by releasing strong catalog titles - but they didn't.
 
The Main Event

The Main Event

Member
DarkJediKnight said:
Looking at the HD DVD upcoming releases, I can't help but feel that HD DVD is about to get dropped real quick by both Warner and Paramount. They both could have dealt a serious blow to Blu-ray in Jan and Feb by releasing strong catalog titles - but they didn't.
Click to expand...

The best selling HD DVD title is a Warner release, and True HD is coming. Let's see how it'll turn out in America, but Warner France is still continuing to support HD DVD with exclusive titles like the Harry Potters, The Matrix Trilogy and 300.
 
P

Petrarca

Banned
DarkJediKnight said:
The biggest surprise to me is that Warner and Paramount joined in on the promotion. So far they've let the "exclusive" studios promote Blu-ray. I think this might be the first where both have actively joined hands with the rest.

Looking at the HD DVD upcoming releases, I can't help but feel that HD DVD is about to get dropped real quick by both Warner and Paramount. They both could have dealt a serious blow to Blu-ray in Jan and Feb by releasing strong catalog titles - but they didn't.
Click to expand...

Really there's nothing to fight for in HD-DVD side. HD-DVD is left with nothing. No more first market advantage, no more movies & players sales number, no additional studio support, no additional CE support. NOTHING

Studios must realize, if they prolong the war, they only curtail the potential growth of their HD income. So the sooner they end this war the better for them and us. It's really up to them. Once Universal sorts their own internal turmoil, I expect them to go to all blu-ray by 2008
 
C

cank stoochie

Banned
you know everyone talks about universal joining blu-ray to end the war, but i feel if warner and paramount go blu-ray only it kill hd dvd much quicker. universal is insignificant right now among hollywoods major players. what big movie have they got coming this year?
 
P

Petrarca

Banned
Lower price blu-ray players about to enter the market. This should speed up blu-ray players market price reduction

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20070216/tc_pcworld/129106;_ylt=Aul_cN9n_Zcq2asa1mpq8AcjtBAF


Japan's Funai Electric Co. Ltd. is set to enter the next-generation DVD market this year, it said Friday.
ADVERTISEMENT

The company, which is known for its low-cost consumer electronics products, plans to have a Blu-ray Disc player available before the end of 2007, said Naoyuki Takanaka, a spokesman for the company.

The product won't be sold under the Funai name but offered to other consumer electronics companies on an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) basis for resale under their respective brand names.

Takanaka wouldn't disclose Funai's target price for the player but a report in Friday morning's Nikkan Kogyo Shimbun industrial daily said it will cost around US$500, or about �60,000.

Whether that price is correct or not the entry of Funai into the next-generation DVD market is likely to increase low-end competition, if previous experience is any predictor.
Click to expand...
 
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