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[rofif]

Every new release we have this discussion "oh it's unplayable"...
You forgot playing your fav games on previous platforms? Your best games were or still are 30fps and you had a blast playing them.
Remember how much fan you used to have with games.
How much you were in awe of new graphics.
Remember the hard boss which required a very fast input response which you had no problem beating in old 30fps games.
To say all of that doesn't matter anymore is nonsense.
I know the argument "but the time moves forward and things change". Yes... and no. Fun never changes. Only your standards do but don't fool yourself, you can't have fun again. Don't become a slave of your standards.
The argument that new tech is more demanding is valid of course. yes, 4k tvs will expose how shitty 720p games look or oled tvs will expose judder at 30fps... but that's only a part of it.

Just because you somehow only now in 2022 discovered 60fps, does not mean the world has ended and "my eyes hurt" when playing at 30fps. It's crazy and shortsighted. just play for 10 minutes.

Let's also not forget. 30fps is not all created equally. Demons Souls 30fps mode got 75ms more input lag than 30fps in bloodborne.... which is snappier than some 60fps gamest this gen.
yes. Bloodborne traded some frame pacing for that fast input response... but so what? It's still the best game ever probably. We played the shit out of it and never once we cared for some stutters here and there... or 30fps at all.
(towards end of the vid it's explained why bloodborne feels so good):


Then there is this huge attack on motion blur and other effects because pcmr said so. I don't know if people still think of motion blur as that gta3 effect. No it's not it. We are talking about a positive, high quality effect.
These methods were invented to improve the experience. Sure, they can go overboard at times but 30fps with good quality motion blur feels 10x better. Remember Lost Planet? exactly.
And especially now, in times of oled, 30fps without motion blur is very juddery.
Take a look here. It's camera and shutter speed so not exactly the same but the point is, if you have low qty of frames, you need each frame to capture the motion that happens in the time the frame is displayed. Not to have each frame be a time freeze picture.


And I got too technical again... and that proves my point. Who cares about any of that? Why does it matter? Don't we just want to play a breathtaking game?
I am gaming for 30 years. I had crt monitors (still have), 240hz monitors, 144 hz monitors compared a lot of gear side by side, spent hours and hours setting .ini files. It is all a time wasted not playing.
You think I remember Dark Souls 1 as a terrible low fps experience it would be nowadays? No. I remember it as a game that changed my life.
You think it bothered me that edf 2017 runs at 10fps in coop during last few missions?! No.... ok a bit but it was so much fun. I remember drinking and having fun with my friend.

Worst case scenario, we are getting very nice and stable 30fps on some games this gen and people still riot.
Remember... it's all about the game. It's all about the experience. You can have a good experience at 30fps. You had good experience at 30fps for past 20 years. You can do it. You just need to give yourself a chance and if the game is not broken, it's fine.

Disclaimer - I am not saying 60,120,240fps is not better. of course it is. But it's not the point of gaming. The point of gaming... is to have an experience and enjoy yourself. If You are avoiding 30fps games because it is unplayable, it is a total nonsense. To discard a possibly ground breaking games. To discard your maybe new favorite games because the fps is not 60? Say goodbye to ever playing dark souls when it release, uncharted games, gears, gta games...
Yeah, I finished tlou2 and death stranding on ps4 at 30fps.... and I will finish them again at 60fps as it released. But the 30fps was needed at the time to created the experience.
If You still can't deal with that... just please, get a pc and enjoy your passion there.

 

[Balducci30]

I agree with everything you’ve said here - it’s getting ludicrous

 

[Lupin3]

If You still can't deal with that... just please, get a pc and enjoy your passion there.

I did. And it's glorious.

 

[BennyBlanco]

30 fps always sucked. It’s why I switched to PC as my main platform in like 2006. If you don’t mind it, that’s fine too.

 

[Balducci30]

30 fps always sucked. It’s why I switched to PC as my main platform in like 2006. If you don’t mind it, that’s fine too.

As everyone should have who has that much of an issue with it. If you are primarily a console player - get over it. Think you’re going to be playing 60 fps games when late in the consoles life cycle and pcs are basically 4x as powerful?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

People have been complaining about "slowdown" since the NES days. Expecting consistency in performance, games to be well optimized and to give players options for how they want to experience a game isn't "ruining consoles", that's idiotic.

 

[TheDraconian]

What are you saying man. This is

Where we shit on framerates & stuff we don't like constructively brutally.
/S

 

[feynoob]

Kids love their shiny toy that is 60 fps.

 

[Kuranghi]

I agree big man, I love sharper and fancier graphics and a higher framerate is welcome in almost every scenario (very very few games do look weird at 60fps imo, Uncharted and TLOU specifically, made for 30fps imo, though with the UC 1-3 PS4 collection I got used to it) but so many cunts are just moaning like a bunch of fucking hens these days.

If a game doesn't have the mode you want then buy a PC, that's how you have control over image quality. I know from experience talking to modern console gamers they get frustrated when there are too many modes because they can't settle on one, 2-3 is fine but any more is annoying for normies and that's who consoles are aimed at.

 

[diffusionx]

Totally agree, it’s just stupid at this point. Everyone has just lost the plot here. They shouldn’t even release games with graphics modes, its just a mess. Point of console is ease of use and knowing devs worked on a fixed platform to get the game in the best position possible. That is lost now. But the publishers/hardware makers made this mess too.

 

[GC_DALBEN]

95% of ppl dont care, if the game is good everyone will play.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Yes, frametime is most important but 60 fps with proper frametime is still going to look and feel a ton better than even 30 fps with proper frametime.

 

[mrmustard]

I did. And it's glorious.

It is.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I guess I just suck but I can't really tell the difference between 30/60 in a game like Spiderman for example.

 

[Dolomite]

Let's be real 60 frames is smoother and always preferred, however personally unless I'm playing a fps it's not a deal breaker

 

[01011001]

but would you say the same if every AAA game switched to 20fps, a very playable framerate?

 

[NEbeast]

Every new release we have this discussion "oh it's unplayable"...
You forgot playing your fav games on previous platforms? Your best games were or still are 30fps and you had a blast playing them.
Remember how much fan you used to have with games.
How much you were in awe of new graphics.
Remember the hard boss which required a very fast input response which you had no problem beating in old 30fps games.
To say all of that doesn't matter anymore is nonsense.
I know the argument "but the time moves forward and things change". Yes... and no. Fun never changes. Only your standards do but don't fool yourself, you can't have fun again. Don't become a slave of your standards.
The argument that new tech is more demanding is valid of course. yes, 4k tvs will expose how shitty 720p games look or oled tvs will expose judder at 30fps... but that's only a part of it.

Just because you somehow only now in 2022 discovered 60fps, does not mean the world has ended and "my eyes hurt" when playing at 30fps. It's crazy and shortsighted. just play for 10 minutes.

Let's also not forget. 30fps is not all created equally. Demons Souls 30fps mode got 75ms more input lag than 30fps in bloodborne.... which is snappier than some 60fps gamest this gen.
yes. Bloodborne traded some frame pacing for that fast input response... but so what? It's still the best game ever probably. We played the shit out of it and never once we cared for some stutters here and there... or 30fps at all.
(towards end of the vid it's explained why bloodborne feels so good):


Then there is this huge attack on motion blur and other effects because pcmr said so. I don't know if people still think of motion blur as that gta3 effect. No it's not it. We are talking about a positive, high quality effect.
These methods were invented to improve the experience. Sure, they can go overboard at times but 30fps with good quality motion blur feels 10x better. Remember Lost Planet? exactly.
And especially now, in times of oled, 30fps without motion blur is very juddery.
Take a look here. It's camera and shutter speed so not exactly the same but the point is, if you have low qty of frames, you need each frame to capture the motion that happens in the time the frame is displayed. Not to have each frame be a time freeze picture.


And I got too technical again... and that proves my point. Who cares about any of that? Why does it matter? Don't we just want to play a breathtaking game?
I am gaming for 30 years. I had crt monitors (still have), 240hz monitors, 144 hz monitors compared a lot of gear side by side, spent hours and hours setting .ini files. It is all a time wasted not playing.
You think I remember Dark Souls 1 as a terrible low fps experience it would be nowadays? No. I remember it as a game that changed my life.
You think it bothered me that edf 2017 runs at 10fps in coop during last few missions?! No.... ok a bit but it was so much fun. I remember drinking and having fun with my friend.

Worst case scenario, we are getting very nice and stable 30fps on some games this gen and people still riot.
Remember... it's all about the game. It's all about the experience. You can have a good experience at 30fps. You had good experience at 30fps for past 20 years. You can do it. You just need to give yourself a chance and if the game is not broken, it's fine.

Disclaimer - I am not saying 60,120,240fps is not better. of course it is. But it's not the point of gaming. The point of gaming... is to have an experience and enjoy yourself. If You are avoiding 30fps games because it is unplayable, it is a total nonsense. To discard a possibly ground breaking games. To discard your maybe new favorite games because the fps is not 60? Say goodbye to ever playing dark souls when it release, uncharted games, gears, gta games...
Yeah, I finished tlou2 and death stranding on ps4 at 30fps.... and I will finish them again at 60fps as it released. But the 30fps was needed at the time to created the experience.
If You still can't deal with that... just please, get a pc and enjoy your passion there.

It's simple : we didn't have a choice. After playing 60/120 fps on current gen it's hard to go back to 30. Sure, you get used to it after a while but it's still ass. At least give people the option.

 

[Warnen]

Consoles should have ended with the Saturn, all hail our 2d over lord!

 

[Rossco EZ]

I did. And it's glorious.

 

[ComputerBlue]

Everybody always complains about the FPS, or the graphics, or this or that. It ain’t ruining shit, if anything it’s pushing developers to do better, but at the end of the day, most people don’t care. Good games at their core will always be good regardless of high-end performance and graphics. I’m guessing this is in relation to Starfield, if that game is great, nobody is going to give a fuck if it’s 30 FPS, and if they can’t pull off 30 FPS, that doesn’t mean the game is going to be shit.

Also, you say “remember how you were in awe of the graphics”. This is essentially the same thing, you want games to look better but are ok if they run worse, some people want games to run better and don’t care how they look. You’re being a bit of a hypocrite here. Ultimately, there’s always going to be some debate about this or that, good games will be good games, period. Don’t let others dictate what you enjoy.

 

[Shh]

No. I like 60 fps. I'm getting older and lagging. I don't need my games lagging too.

 

[somesang]

Stability and frame pacing/input response is really all that matters at the end of the day.

 

[rofif]

Everybody always complains about the FPS, or the graphics, or this or that. It ain’t ruining shit, if anything it’s pushing developers to do better, but at the end of the day, most people don’t care. Good games at their core will always be good regardless of high-end performance and graphics. I’m guessing this is in relation to Starfield, if that game is great, nobody is going to give a fuck if it’s 30 FPS, and if they can’t pull off 30 FPS, that doesn’t mean the game is going to be shit.

hah! This should be a tl:dr for my 1st post. Thanks!
Perfectly said

 

[Trogdor1123]

I would 100% build a pc if I could use it like a console. If I could have a wireless controller where I can drop onto my chair, power it up, go to games, I’m in. But to knowledge I can’t, can I?

I’m wondering if I could just use a long hdmi cable (as a work around and put the computer somewhere more accessible?) or would that create lag or other issues.

 

[Hugare]

I've been preaching about how awesome FF XVI 30 FPS mode plays at the Demo's topic

People are oblivious. Even on PC, you may be playing at 60 FPS but with some insane input lag.

Input lag is more important than framerate

Put this information inside your noggins

Also framepacing. You may have a stuttery looking mess even at 60 FPS or higher.

A perfectly framepaced 30 FPS game can look glorious.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Damn gamers! They're ruining gaming!

 

[EviLore]

30 fps is miserable, peasant-tier gaming.

 

[Quezacolt]

I've been preaching about how awesome FF XVI 30 FPS mode plays at the Demo's topic

People are oblivious. Even on PC, you may be playing at 60 FPS but with some insane input lag.

Input lag is more important than framerate

Put this information inside your noggins

Also framepacing. You may have a stuttery looking mess even at 60 FPS or higher.

A perfectly framepaced 30 FPS game can look glorious.

This.
Played the demo on Resolution mode, and i couldnt believe how smooth it felt. During no point, outside of the massive frame drops during the eikon battle, did i think i needed to change to performance mode. It was great.

 

[01011001]

I would 100% build a pc if I could use it like a console. If I could have a wireless controller where I can drop onto my chair, power it up, go to games, I’m in. But to knowledge I can’t, can I?

I’m wondering if I could just use a long hdmi cable (as a work around and put the computer somewhere more accessible?) or would that create lag or other issues.

you can.
you can set Steam to boot up in big picture mode, basically giving you a console menu.

I have a 10m HDMI cable running to my TV.
sadly those longer cables are pretty low quality. you basically only get HDMI 2.0 features at best with them

 

[Tsaki]

Does the game do massive simulations that put a huge strain to a 16 threaded Zen 2 CPU? If yes, then does the game run on a spaghetti code that uses only one core? If no, then fine. 30 fps was needed for this visionary game. If not, then people should bitch about it. Take some extra time, hire some extra engineers and figure it out. If the game is not CPU limited, then lower the resolution and IQ appropriately.
It's the same as delaying the game so it doesn't release full of bugs. People pay more than ever for AAA games. Of course their demands will be higher.
For Burning Shores, Guerilla engineers had to rethink the way they rendered clouds because the previous approach on Forbidden West was too heavy and they couldn't make it run in a 16.6ms frame-time. So they got to work, had some Sony engineers help and they achieved it. Alternatively, Guerilla could release the expansion with just a 30 fps mode and cite that the game is just that heavy when it renders clouds. And they would be telling the truth. But they felt that 60fps was necessary for the game and they worked to achieve it.

 

[nowhat]

Bloodborne traded some frame pacing for that fast input response... but so what?

So what? That it's so juddery that it is practically unplayable?

 

[AV]

I'll tolerate it to play a game that doesn't have it like RDR2 on PS4, but it better be the absolute cutting edge.

Redfall was inexcusable. That game not running at 60 in 2023 is pathetic, despite that being the absolute least of its issues.

 

[MikeM]

Given that we have devs offering 30, 40, 60 and full unlocked modes, there is an expectation that it should be a standard. That, or offer 30 or 60/vrr unlocked modes. Devs that do not are going to disappoint one crowd or the other.
We also live in a world of TVs with 120hz capabilities and VRR. Why are we letting these technologies go to waste? We got pro consoles previously to keep up with 4k tech (with very mixed results), so perhaps the solution is a Pro console now to keep up with these new technologies in the TV segment.

 

[Gorgon]

I guess we'll have a new thread about this every other week.

Carry on.

 

[01011001]

So what? That it's so juddery that it is practically unplayable?

it would be unplaybe with other types of vsync due to the input lag increase
there's a mod for it on PS4 that changes the vsync to get a flat 30fps, and that mod makes the game unplaybe due to the increased lag

 

[LostDonkey]

For me, 60FPS or above is MANDATORY with regards to Sim Racers/Fighting Games and online competitive Shooters. Everything else like single player adventure, FPS and arcade racers is fine at a locked 30fps.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Yeah I wish gamers talked about the games and not the specs. Like set up a Computer Club if overclocking your CPU is all you care about.

A steady 30 frames per second is more then fine. I'm sure in 10 years 60 FPS will be the new 30 FPS and everyone will complain if a game doesn't run at 120 FPS as the standard.

 

[nowhat]

it would be unplaybe with other types of vsync due to the input lag increase

Or rather, it would be playable if From would dedicate 10% of their art budget to their engineering team. But that's not going to happen.

 

[Kabelly]

yea that's why i skipped ps5. 800CAD 30fps "next-gen" machine aint gonna cut it. PC framerate gives me great gaming experiences with great performance.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Also, camera movement motion blur makes me sick, i'll gladly disable it.

 

[delfrickintree]

It's kinda like the racism topic. The more you keep harping about it and complaining it's such a problem, the more people will keep believing it's a problem. Just let it die. Yet OP brings it up again in order to complain. Curious..

 

[Thabass]

To OP's point: Tears of the Kingdom is running at 30FPS for the most part and it dips considerably during action times. That hasn't stopped me from considering this game on of the greatest games of all time and I love higher framerates. It's not the end of the world if you get some hiccups, as long as it is consistent, I think it's fine. Most of the time TOTK is consistent 30 and that's great in my opinion.

 

[touchfuzzy]

Not me, I was playing that new Pokemon game last night which look like a big ol' butthole half the time and barely holds 30fps but having a good time. I've moved on from caring about graphics.

 

[JackMcGunns]

It's console warring, nothing more than selective outrage. There will be more 30fps games in the future for both platforms as the generation progresses. You better believe that the toughest games runing Unreal Engine 5 using Lumen and nanite, will be outputing at 30fps at resolutions of 1440p and lower.

Remember how everyone was going bananas for this? Where was the outrage over the 30fps? Selective outage at it's finest. And I get that UE5 looks amazing, but no one is asking if Starfield is or will be an amazing game at the end of the day, the only concern is the framerate, without knowing what would otherwise need to be changed.

 

[The Tourmaline Gorilla]

30 fps always sucked. It’s why I switched to PC as my main platform in like 2006. If you don’t mind it, that’s fine too.

What year were you born in? You never had a Nes, or Super Nes, or Nintendo 64, or Sega Genesis, or played Raiden in the arcade, or PacMan, or Outrun, or Street Fighter II?

Y'all kill me with this "60 fps or gtfo" shit, as though the majority of all games that ever existed aren't 30fps or sub 30fps. Most of the best games that have ever been created and played, in humankind's history, is 30fps or sub 30fps.

To think that Starfield (or any other game) will be completely unenjoyable or unplayable because it's 30fps is ludicrous, asinine...insane, foolish, unfounded, unreasonable, unrealistic, clownish, myopic, stupid, impractical, nonsensical, idiotic, short-sighted, ad infinitum.

Some of you gamers are so spoilt, lost and delusional. It's honestly sad and highly irritating.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

We are at least moving forward.

One it was sprites. Then it was polygons.

Then resolution. But thanks to reconstruction being accepted in the PC space now that's no longer a thing.

Now... it's ray tr..... sorry, framerate.

I am calling it now, frame generations going to be the big tech of next-gen consoles.

 

[yamaci17]

says the guy who thinks anything below a 3080/4070/4080 is waste on PC and you cant enjoy games since anything below these would run games worse than PS5. somehow being able to enjoy games on hardware that is weaker than PS5 is unspeakable for him but here he is, talking about how he enjoyed X game at Y FPS at Z resolution with decrepit W hardware when better options existed on PC (back in the day, I can exemplify if necessary).

says the guy who MOST likely thinks or sometimes outright implies no one should play at 1080p on a 2060 and get a PS5/4K screen asap or stop gaming altogether (or at least implies, or or rather inclined to say)

its funny how you can play the "muh just enjoy ur games" card when the narrative is not on your side, but once it is, framerate/resolution/stability gains importance and one should absolutely play on PS5 instead of on a 2060 at 1080p!

Just! I have nothing against 30 fps also, personally. I just can't forget how you mocked people who can enjoy games with a 2060 at 1080p with sane settings when I mentioned such cheap builds that allow PC gaming . somehow it was unspekable and they were ruining their experience when PS5 existed by going that route. but now if a game runs at 120 FPS/4K on PC but 1200p/30 FPS on PS5, it is no issue and all you need is fun in a game!

you were like "lolol 1080p in 2023!!1". but here you are, I'm sure if a PS5 game runs at 900p/30FPS, you will simply say "just enjoy the damn game! we played X game at 480p resolution at 15 FPS back in the day". isn't it you, simply? you enjoyed forspoken at sub 1080p resolutions after all. didn't you? you could get 4K on 4080 and above hardware on PC with stable framerates with better visuals. what hold you back? go pay some money and get that better PC maybe, as you think a 1080p/2060 user should not have rights to have fun, you shouldn't be allowed to have fun on PS5 while playing forspoken when a better alternative exists. how about that, huh?

 

[darrylgorn]

Honestly!

If we could just make 60 fps the regulated standard, then this wouldn't even be a problem.

 

[TrueLegend]

30 fps sucked and still sucks. Digital Foundry are die hard RT nerds but go watch DF direct after control launch they all ditched RT mode and played on performance mode. The point is there is not a single game out there that offered substantial visual flair for sacrificing framerate, it was always a case of developer laziness. HFW and A Plague's take Requiem are clear examples that consoles will do much better if developer targeted 60fps from start. If DF can let go of RT to play at 60 your average gamer who doesn't even know what resolution things are running at sure can. Not to mention native 1080p scales better to 4K than DRS due to upscale blur in non ML based AA solutions. So 1080p60 in UE5 will be great looking for consoles with TSR. Its UE5 that needs optimization.

I can also be like You console preferred gamers and shit on consoles and gen2 cpus and that shitty 720p gameplay but no I am fighting on your side to give you what you deserve. Consoles CPUs can do 1080p60 on all engines and devs have got no reason to deny that to console gamers. Returnal did it right.

 

[Mr Moose]

As long as it doesn't feel like dog shit to play, I don't mind 30fps.