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[nkarafo]

I'm a graphics guy and fighting games is the only genre i don't follow anymore when it comes to visual advancements.

I remember the huge jumps between VF1 - VF2/Tekken 3 on the arcades and the last game that wowed me, graphically, Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast. But after that it kinda stopped being exciting for some reason.

I know that later entries have steadily increased polygons on the characters and environments, but the characters in most Japanese made fighters still look like the same anime faced dolls as always. And now devs seem to spend the extra polygon budgets for decorations and spikes on their costumes, which makes me think like the human models themselves look as good as they want them to be, they reached the ceiling sort of. Western made fighting games look more realistic on still screenshots but still have the same kind of stiff, janky looking animations as those old Midway arcades. Ok, maybe not THAT bad but still very janky.

I feel like every graphical aspect of these games doesn't look better than other genres (or even as good) even though they could. Fighting games have to render the least amount of stuff, just two characters 99% of the time and a very small environment that you can't even explore while the only area where you can move around is usually a small, flat arena. That's even more restricted than, say, linear walk simulators that can look like graphic benchmarks. And yet neither the character models or the backgrounds look much better than any other game, i would say they look worse even.

Dunno if my rant makes any sense, i'm trying to figure out why is it that fighting games don't excite me as much as any other genre anymore, when it comes to graphics, ever since the DC/PS2 days.

Though i have to admit, i haven't played the last Killer Instinct game. How does that look in comparison?

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

3D fighters? They haven't. Not for 10 years or so. Look at SC6 a blatant SC5 port or Samurai Shodown. The new DoA game is still very similar to 5. It hasn't had the jump in quality like it did with Tekken 4 to 5. Or VF4 to 5.
2D fighters? Yes. Just look at Granblue Fantasy Versus.

 

[Nymphae]

Samurai Showdown looks ridiculous. The most gorgeous character select screen I've ever seen by far.

Yeah IDK, they're fighters, I don't actually want insane particles everywhere and crazy complex graphics. I think SFV looks good (but the stages are terrible for the most part), and I think ARC is killing it with their 2D/3D aesthetic. I'd like more sprites, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Tip_of_the_Hat]

Hey, have a look at Arc System Works. They got Guilty Gear Xrd, Dragon Ball Fighterz and the upcoming Granblue. Now they might be anime styled and therefore not as graphically intensive as a realistically styled game, but it's the thing about fighting games where they are much more striking and sudden spectacle based rather than slow moving lovely serene looking backgrounds.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Hey, have a look at Arc System Works. They got Guilty Gear Xrd, Dragon Ball Fighterz and the upcoming Granblue. Now they might be anime styled and therefore not as graphically intensive as a realistically styled game, but it's the thing about fighting games where they are much more striking and sudden spectacle based rather than slow moving lovely serene looking backgrounds.

GBF is the best looking 2.5D fighter I've ever played. The gameplay vids don't do it justice. Hopefully the full game will have at least 20 characters.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Fighting games these days at least, tend to forgo bleeding edge graphics in favor of polished game-play, and a silky smooth frame-rate. They're the genre that doesn't need a ton of Graphical advancements because they already look good enough for their purpose.

 

[kunonabi]

Arcsys are the only ones consistently improving. Tekken 7 is particularly underwhelming. Fighters in all areas have stopped pushing boundaries like they used to to be honest.

 

[Danjin44]

I'm a graphics guy and fighting games is the only genre i don't follow anymore when it comes to visual advancements.

The question is what exactly you are looking for in terms of graphics? are you looking for hype realism visuals? We have games like Samurai Showdown and Granblue that are using interesting art direction and to me thats more attractive than having advance graphics. Besides to me most important part of fighting games is the animation, this why I don't like MK even tho it has most "advance graphics" because its in game animation is stiff and awkward compare to other fighting games.

 

[Ballthyrm]

Western made fighting games look more realistic on still screenshots but still have the same kind of stiff, janky looking animations as those old Midway arcades. Ok, maybe not THAT bad but still very janky.

Fighting games are probably the hardest game to animate.
Animation has to fill many, many purpose that often conflict with one another.

• You need to be able to read it well to be able to possibly counter it.
• They need to blend in with one another in many many ways.
• They need be acknowledge being hit, being canceled, being countered, etc
• You need to be able to throw a punch/kick fast so the game feel reactive.

There isn't really any type of game that ask more of animation while giving so little. Most good fighting games play 60fps and animation cycle are very short. In short it's a nightmare.

When you add the fact that all that stuff has to somehow still work online, you begin to understand why they only serve fighters one at a time.

________________________________________________________________

As for the graphics: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I prefer the old school looks myself.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Keeping 60FPS along with complex AI and complex animation is probably the main limiter.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

The money isn't there any more. Fighting games used to be one of the clearest demonstrations of a platform's hardware power.

 

[nkarafo]

The question is what exactly you are looking for in terms of graphics?

Can't put my finger on it but, dunno, something more impressive and detailed?

It doesn't have to be more realistic. Like, there are some games that feature model viewers like DOOM 2016 and Resident Evil 2. I feel like some of these models look more impressive (not more realistic) than the models in fighting games despite the model viewer letting you see up close. In fact, seeing up close shows details that you can't see in game due to the camera being away or the game being too fast. The materials are better, the models are more detailed (in some cases) or i don't know what it is really. And btw, both of these games i mentioned run at 60fps as someone argued the same about fighters. And feature big, explorable environments at the same time.

I think the best looking, most detailed model this generation is Aloy from Horizon Zero Down, which is an open world game that has to render a huge world. Her hair/braids alone is like 100.000 polygons or something, as many as a full model in other games. That's what i would expect to see in fighting games tbh.

 

[Fuz]

Arcsys are the only ones consistently improving. Tekken 7 is particularly underwhelming. Fighters in all areas have stopped pushing boundaries like they used to to be honest.

They were the type of games that pushed the graphics, back in the '90s or so.

 

[nkarafo]

Fighting games used to be one of the clearest demonstrations of a platform's hardware power.

Indeed. Fighting and Racing games used to be the ones to show off the new 3D arcade hardware capabilities in the 90's.

 

[Pantz]

I think about this sometimes too. It seems like if you only have two characters and one small stage then there should be so much spare power to pump all the detail in this one little scene. It seemed like this was the case for some fighters in the past. Like you say, nothing has really stood out in quite some time compared to other full world games that also have nice graphics.

 

[mrMUR_96]

I'm a graphics guy and fighting games is the only genre i don't follow anymore when it comes to visual advancements.

I remember the huge jumps between VF1 - VF2/Tekken 3 on the arcades and the last game that wowed me, graphically, Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast. But after that it kinda stopped being exciting for some reason.

I know that later entries have steadily increased polygons on the characters and environments, but the characters in most Japanese made fighters still look like the same anime faced dolls as always. And now devs seem to spend the extra polygon budgets for decorations and spikes on their costumes, which makes me think like the human models themselves look as good as they want them to be, they reached the ceiling sort of. Western made fighting games look more realistic on still screenshots but still have the same kind of stiff, janky looking animations as those old Midway arcades. Ok, maybe not THAT bad but still very janky.

I feel like every graphical aspect of these games doesn't look better than other genres (or even as good) even though they could. Fighting games have to render the least amount of stuff, just two characters 99% of the time and a very small environment that you can't even explore while the only area where you can move around is usually a small, flat arena. That's even more restricted than, say, linear walk simulators that can look like graphic benchmarks. And yet neither the character models or the backgrounds look much better than any other game, i would say they look worse even.

Dunno if my rant makes any sense, i'm trying to figure out why is it that fighting games don't excite me as much as any other genre anymore, when it comes to graphics, ever since the DC/PS2 days.

Though i have to admit, i haven't played the last Killer Instinct game. How does that look in comparison?

You clearly haven't played mk11 then. Injustice 2 is also pretty solid.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Probably due to budgets. I don't think publishers are willing to put as much money in the genre as they do in other games.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I think the reason most fighting games don’t look that technologically impressive this generation is because they usually have a diminutive, shoestring budget and the genre is considered niche. Even a decently popular game like Tekken 7 didn’t have a substantial or even an adequate budget. NRS games usually have decent budgets which lead to them looking really good normally but their games aren’t quite as niche so companies are more willing to invest into their production values.

Also, 3d fighters being dead probably isn’t doing the genre any favors visually because those were usually the games that pushed the graphical limits of hardware back in the day with a few exceptions of course. Virtua Fighter, Dead or Alive, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Toshinden, etc back in the day really showed what hardware was capable of.

I know the genre is niche, but I would love to see a modern, original fighter materialize today with a huge budget on par with some AAA titles.

 

[Griffon]

Agreed. Fighting games used to be bleeding edge showcases. Not so much anymore...

 

[Danjin44]

You clearly haven't played mk11 then. Injustice 2 is also pretty solid.

In terms of tech sure but when it comes to in-game animation you are fighting is really stiff and robotic and don't flow well and to me animation is waaaaay more important than having high tech graphics in fighting games

 

[game_nomad]

Many AAA games are built with massive unpaid overtime that more closely resembles slavery than artistic creative process. There were recent articles about Epic and Nether Realms. There is a Ubisoft studio in Sofia Bulgaria (where I am) and it is famous with its overtime. This is not a social rant, just the state of the industry since almost 2 decades, it is expected part of gamedev. My point is that the artists that make the assets are particularly affected by these practices. I am even surprised that these studios manage to ship something playable.

 

[Birdo]

They used to be graphical showcases too. Like Tekken on PSX and Street Fighter II on SNES.

Maybe it's down to style more then anything. People seem to prefer cartoony looking fighters to realistic.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Can't put my finger on it but, dunno, something more impressive and detailed?

It doesn't have to be more realistic. Like, there are some games that feature model viewers like DOOM 2016 and Resident Evil 2. I feel like some of these models look more impressive (not more realistic) than the models in fighting games despite the model viewer letting you see up close. In fact, seeing up close shows details that you can't see in game due to the camera being away or the game being too fast. The materials are better, the models are more detailed (in some cases) or i don't know what it is really. And btw, both of these games i mentioned run at 60fps as someone argued the same about fighters. And feature big, explorable environments at the same time.

I think the best looking, most detailed model this generation is Aloy from Horizon Zero Down, which is an open world game that has to render a huge world. Her hair/braids alone is like 100.000 polygons or something, as many as a full model in other games. That's what i would expect to see in fighting games tbh.

See, that’s what I would like to see in more modern fighting games. I mean most fighting games still look decent, but it’s kind of disappointing when they look almost indistinguishable from their predecessors from the previous generations imo. Again, I think it’s mostly budget constraints.

 

[mcz117chief]

2D fighters? Yes. Just look at Granblue Fantasy Versus.

I just looked. Good Lord that game looks astonishingly good. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Whitesnake]

I genuinely don’t know what you’re expecting.

If you think Tekken 7 isn’t a big step up from Tekken Tag 2, then you haven’t played Tekken Tag 2 in a while.

Sould Calibur looks great in my opinion.

Capcom games don’t look great because capcom is cheap.

SNK games don’t look great because their budget is about $5 and some pocket lint.

NRS games look great (but they still don’t know how to do animations).

ArcSys games look great with their psuedo-2D artstyle that probably wouldn’t benefit much from having 3 billion polygons per character.

Other 2D fighters look pretty good.

 

[nkarafo]

You can see examples of fighting games having the best models in older gens.

Like, is there any PS1 game that has as good models as it's own Tekken 3 port?

I genuinely don’t know what you’re expecting.

Models like Aloy from Horizon maybe.

 

[Danjin44]

I just looked. Good Lord that game looks astonishingly good. Thanks for letting me know.

Also Granblue Fantasy Relink is looking mighty gorgeous so far.

 

[mcz117chief]

Also Granblue Fantasy Relink is looking mighty gorgeous so far.

OI! That looks great too! Thanks, brother.

 

[Buki1]

You mean outside of MK11 and Injustice 2? Because those two have amazing graphics

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Models like Aloy from Horizon maybe.

MK has got you covered!
But why would you want that over this?

 

[nkarafo]

But why would you want that over this?

Sorry but i dislike anime.

You mean outside of MK11 and Injustice 2? Because those two have amazing graphics

That gif looks pretty good.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Sorry, i just dislike anime.

That's fair, I just don't understand how you can like fighting games which mostly use manga inspired characters though. I never got how people call certain fighting games "anime" when almost every single fighting game is Japanese either with manga like artstyle. SF, Tekken, VF you name it. Your best bet for a good looking fighter is MK then.

 

[Danjin44]

Sorry but i dislike anime.

Then you are much better off looking for western fighting games.

 

[nkarafo]

That's fair, I just don't understand how you can like fighting games which mostly use manga inspired characters though. I never got how people call certain fighting games "anime" when almost every single fighting game is Japanese either with manga like artstyle. SF, Tekken, VF you name it. Your best bet for a good looking fighter is MK then.

That pic you posted has a very different art style than something like Tekken or Soul Calibur.

Maybe i didn't word it correctly, i don't mean that i dislike all anime, that is from Japanese studios, i still love Akira or the 1995 Ghost in the Shell movie because they have amazing art and animation. But still different than the style of the pic you posted, which is more like the usual "fanservice" cute anime style.

Then you are much better off looking for western fighting games.

See above.

 

[Shikore]

The big budget games are pretty old too. Tekken 7 was released in March 2015 and SFV in february 2016. In a way there is no evolution in graphics in the genre because there is only a few big budget games in this genre.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Fighting games these days at least, tend to forgo bleeding edge graphics in favor of polished game-play, and a silky smooth frame-rate. They're the genre that doesn't need a ton of Graphical advancements because they already look good enough for their purpose.

This, basically.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

That pic you posted has a very different art style than something like Tekken or Soul Calibur.

Maybe it's my fault, i don't really dislike all anime, i still love Akira or the 1995 Ghost in the Shell movie because they have amazing art and animation. But still different than the style of the pic you posted, which is more like the usual "fanservice" cute anime style.
See above.

You lost me here. SC and Tekken have a crapload of fanservice. Since the first game in their respect series too. GBF is noted for having great art as well. Maybe you just dislike any "modern" anime looking media. That is completely fine.



UNIST also looks good IMO but again it is "too anime" I guess. Plays great as well.



Your best bet for "good" graphics and art is probably whatever Nether does next. Injustice 3 maybe?

 

[Danjin44]

See above.

My point still stands, Japanese developers are much interested in impressive animation more than top of the line high detail character models. MK and Injustice might have high graphic details but to me when it comes to in-game animation they look terrible.

 

[Riven326]

The new Mortal Kombat looks very nice.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

My point still stands, Japanese developers are much interested in impressive animation more than top of the line high detail character models. MK and Injustice might have high graphic details but to me when it comes to in-game animation they look terrible.

I think the worst thing about MK is the gameplay honestly.

 

[Fuz]

I think SFV looks good (but the stages are terrible for the most part)

SFV stages are a disgrace that I can't explain.

I think the worst thing about MK is the censorship honestly.

Fixed that for you.


Granblue looks really nice, but the animations are lacking. GGRX is still the best looking 2.5 around.

 

[Alexios]

Well, tech has enabled non-fighting games to have graphics that on the surface appear equally good. Normal maps and parallax maps and displacement maps and all that allowing high-detail models to work in those scenarios, where fighting games used to push those polygons raw rather than rely on such performance optimization techniques. Not that they couldn't look better but it's not like there's much wrong with Street Fighter V visually, or Xrd or Tekken 7, it's just that architecture and landscapes and stuff impress more when you can explore them I guess, vs being a background.

Agreed though, Soul Calibur was such a revelation. Especially if you had seen the arcade version which basically had Tekken 3 graphics (but with the fancier stages and lighting and details like swaying cloth and hair, dust and wind, all that jazz alongside the more 3D gameplay making it cooler).


Dreams of arcade-perfect went out the window in favor of far-superior-to-arcade ports just like that!

 

[Danjin44]

I think the worst thing about MK is the gameplay honestly.

Im type of person who LOOOVES watching EVO or other fighting game tournaments but I cant never stand watching MK or Injustice matches because animation so damn stiff and robotic and just down right terrible.

 

[Ol'Scratch]

It should never be about looks. The moment it is the genre is fucked. There have been attempts in the few years and it has had bad results. The work that Arc has done with games like BB and especially FighterZ is exceptional. Nobody should ever want uncanny valley to enter the FGC territory.

 

[DryvBy]

Guilty Gear looks good imo. It's not realistic but it's amazing that it looks like it's 2D and drawn to me.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

SFV stages are a disgrace that I can't explain.


Fixed that for you.


Granblue looks really nice, but the animations are lacking. GGRX is still the best looking 2.5 around.

It isn't censorship if they make a character however they want though? It is more like uglyfication. Is that a word? Prob not.

 

[cireza]

Fighting games are too niche to justify huge investments. So not many of them will actually look great.

Still, I find that Dead or Alive has constantly been up there. DoA5 was pretty amazing, with colorful graphics, smooth gameplay, short loading times.

I play Dead or Alive 6 on Xbox One X as well, and the game is definitely one of the most pretty games out there. I find that this series is really above the others in terms of presentation. Killer Instinct is also still pretty impressive with the 4K update. You have Mortal Kombat series that has a real budget as well. And finally Ark System Works who have a pretty good anime style technology. Street Fighter V is also good looking.

Everything else feels a bit meh though.

 

[nkarafo]

You lost me here. SC and Tekken have a crapload of fanservice. Since the first game in their respect series too. GBF is noted for having great art as well. Maybe you just dislike any "modern" anime looking media. That is completely fine.

Let's just say i don't like the cute anime character style then.

 

[octiny]

Definitely agree.

The last jump that wowed me was Soul Calibur/Dead or alive 2 on Dreamcast

 

[Ol'Scratch]

Let's just say i don't like the cute anime character style then.

Just curious then, is the Neo Geo avatar ironic then? KOF/Fatal Fury/Samurai Showdown/World Heroes, Art of Fighting they almost invented that style in Fighting Games. And that is why Neo Geo is above all others for me.