Support NeoGAF

[ravingloon]

Back when the DS was still a mystery (specs leaded, but pre-e3), I had high hopes that there'd be a lot of simple, back to the roots arcade games that sold at cheap prices. I seemed to be in the minority here, but I had a dream. Apparently so did some developers, but this dream seems to be fading:

http://www.gamespot.com/gba/news/news_6102921.html

"Morikawa says that the DS’ hardware allows small but unique game ideas to be realized into a product at a low development cost. However, Morikawa continues, the developers won't be able to market those small games, because they can’t sell them at a lower price."

 

[neptunes]

slightly higher than GBA games make more sense.

 

[neptunes]

source: gamespot

"But, those kinds of ideas are too small to fit in a 3,800 yen cartridge, which is why [the developers] are deadlocked”, continues Morikawa. “It's difficult to expand on those types of small ideas, kind of like how a short story won't become a good novel if you bloat it up with unnecessary ideas. So the only way to fill a 3,800 yen cartridge is by stuffing in one huge idea or a lot of small ideas. But we can’t stuff in a bunch of small ideas, because that’s something which is already going to be done with Made in Wario [WarioWare, Inc. DS].""

what?

 

[tenchir]

Doesn't affect me since I don't buy those "small idea" games that last for 30 minutes tops, unless there's a bunch of them in one cartridge(like WarioWare).

 

[AniHawk]

what?

I think it's a riddle.

 

[Scoobert]

Were devs expecting to make games similar to the tech demos at e3? They are freaking crazy. If that really is the case, I'm glad the games will be a little more money.

 

[cja]

How is the retail price of games being 1,000 Yen less than GBA and offering too much space bad?

 

[Shoryuken]

I'm guessing in the US games will retail for $30, around the same price as GBA games.

 

[Defensor]

I think it's a riddle.

I got it... the Human Brain.

 

[BuG]

So is 3,800 yen going to be the recommended retail price, or is it the price per cart the developers have to pay Nintendo? If it's the latter, it sounds like Morikawa is saying at that price they can't afford to sell the games to the public any cheaper than 3,800 yen, and the ideas they have for DS games are too small to be sold at such a high price, therefore the only way they can make the games worth the at least 3,800 yen is if they pack a whole heap of these small ideas into one game, which is already being done by WarioWare DS.

Well, that's what it sounds like to me, anyways.

 

[StrikerObi]

This guy isn't bitching that DS games are going to be expensive. He is bitching that Nintendo is not offering super small size DS carts to developers to put throw-away cell-phone style games on. Pricing right at or slightly above GBA games seems appropriate to me.

 

[brandonnn]

Considering GBA games retail 4800 yen on average, this sounds like a break for consumers.

I'm not exactly sure why any collection of minigames would get automatically dismissed as a Made in Wario clone, unless they presented them in the same "string of 5 second blasts" format. MuuMuu especially is no stranger to minigame packages; Pocket MuuMuu came out in '99, and at 4800 yen to boot.

It seems like there'd still be plenty of room for collections of touchscreen widgets -- I honestly expect little else at first while everyone dives in headfirst to the format.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I'm now imagining Morikawa petitioning for the eReader to be continued for the sake of the DS.

 

[neptunes]

I wonder how they'll put the touch screen into good use for longer games.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

What did people expect? DS games to be cheaper than GBA games?

 

[Shoryuken]

What did people expect? DS games to be cheaper than GBA games?

It appears that the DS games will be cheaper (based on the suspected Japanese prices).

 

[Deg]

"But, those kinds of ideas are too small to fit in a 3,800 yen cartridge, which is why [the developers] are deadlocked,” continues Morikawa.

He wants smaller cartridges (and as a result they will be cheaper ). Took you guys a while to figure out something so simple to understand

He basically wants to spend as little as possible from the sounds of things and his excuse is that his games dont need the space. DS starts at 100 MB. Which is quite large compared to current handheld standards.

Perhaps Nintendo should do smaller versions? or will that make alot of publishers try to keep costs as low as possible and always opt for smaller sizes at the expense of the games as with GBA?

 

[Chittagong]

Perhaps Nintendo should do smaller versions? or will that make alot of publishers try to keep costs as low as possible and always opt for smaller sizes at the expense of the games as with GBA?

Because of the memory price erosion, smaller memory cards sizes aren't being manufactured anymore at all, same as with other storage formats. Nintendo isn't manufacturing the media, they are subcontracting it, and their bargaining power these days isn't too big. Just check what size of a chip is inside NES Classics and compare it to the code size to see.

This is yet another example of no roadmap at Nintendo, in my opinion. If they had actually studied the implications of media format evolution for all available choices, as well as prototyping the implications to media format of using a touch screen, they would have

(A) Included an internal or card based recordable media + a cell phone core to download minigames
(B) Included an internal or card based recordable media + card-e-reader
(C) Included an internal or card based recordable media + kiosk infrastructure like with iQue

Famicom Disk System, N64, 64DD, NES Classics . . . should have thought them something already.

 

[Hooker]

Pff, we Euros have always paid €50s for GBA games, €60 - €70 for Xbox/PS2/NGC games. So nothing new for us :/

 

[GDJustin]

Good god guys... smaller cheaper games is a bad idea? I personally would love to see $30 "normal" DS games, but also DS games that retail for maybe $7 that offer shorter more superficial experiences.

 

[TekunoRobby]

Good god guys... smaller cheaper games is a bad idea? I personally would love to see $30 "normal" DS games, but also DS games that retail for maybe $7 that offer shorter more superficial experiences.

Like classic NES games? I'd love that, DAMN YOU NINTENDO.

 

[shuri]

I would buy those ports if they were 20$. Fuck you nintendo

 

[aoi tsuki]

Good god guys... smaller cheaper games is a bad idea? I personally would love to see $30 "normal" DS games, but also DS games that retail for maybe $7 that offer shorter more superficial experiences.

It's already been explained...

Because of the memory price erosion, smaller memory cards sizes aren't being manufactured anymore at all, same as with other storage formats.

Besides, how many games do you see released at $10 now? For a well-established system like PS2, releasing a dirt cheap game is less of a risk because there'll be enough people to buy it because it's cheap, but not for a system like DS which'll be starting from scratch.

 

[Ranger X]

If the DS is, like Nintendo suggest, easy to devellop on and low cost, why those wants cartridges to be smaller or whatever, why do they want to lower the costs even more?
This is completely stupid. What about making real games, longer games that will cost just as about the same as GBA ones maybe and it will look better!! Where's the problem? Everybody would be happy like that...

 

[Link316]

its not in Nintendo's best interest to let 3rd parties make budget games available for $10, it would mean lower license fees for them and the $10 games would also eat into the sales of the $30 games

 

[lexy]

If the DS is, like Nintendo suggest, easy to devellop on and low cost, why those wants cartridges to be smaller or whatever, why do they want to lower the costs even more?
This is completely stupid. What about making real games, longer games that will cost just as about the same as GBA ones maybe and it will look better!! Where's the problem? Everybody would be happy like that...

I think what Morikawa is saying is that it's hard to make good games while at the same time using the DS' touch screen effectively.

 

[Date of Lies]

So dont use it.


All I want is Capcom vs SNK 2 to play by myself and with my friends wirelessly.
And that doesn't require any touch screen. Or voice recognition. Or 2 screens.

Just the 4 face buttons we now have.

It'll sell for 30$.

 

[cja]

Get in that time machine back to 1994. A developer with a history of strong support for Nintendo says they're unhappy with the PlayStations media. Sony have failed to offer an 8cm mini-CD for less money than the bog standard 12cm disc. That's what this story amounts to, utter absurdity.

 

[Shiggy]

Pff, we Euros have always paid ?50s for GBA games, ?60 - ?70 for Xbox/PS2/NGC games. So nothing new for us :/

Where do you buy your games?

The GCN games cost always 49.99 ?, sometimes a little bit more.

The GBA games cost always 39.99 ?, most times not so much.

(Germany)

Where do you live?

 

[dog$]

So you're telling me Nintendo wants a high profit margin? I'll be damned.

 

[ge-man]

Get in that time machine back to 1994. A developer with a history of strong support for Nintendo says they're unhappy with the PlayStations media. Sony have failed to offer an 8cm mini-CD for less money than the bog standard 12cm disc. That's what this story amounts to, utter absurdity.

That about sums it up. I wonder what this guy feels about Sony's UMD?

 

[Falch]

I'm going to cry if it turns out DS games in Europe will cost 50 euro.

 

[ge-man]

Biggest bunch of tripe I've ever heard from Nintendo.
More ideas than Nintendo ever came up with, fit into 64k.
(Commodore C=64)

Umm, this is a quote from a third party developer, not Nintendo.

What's so funny about this whole thing is that people have bitched to Nintendo for the longest time about cripling their freedom with media. Now Nintendo offers a low cost media that should actually cover most capacity needs and now that's TOO much.

 

[FitzOfRage]

Oh I see, it's MuuMuu of Jumping Flash fame...
It's quite ironic how things are turning out from the original comments made by Nintendo at E3 in regards to the freedom for developers.

How's this ironic? He's complaining about having too much storage space for less than the cost of a normal GBA game there. Despite him mentioning the anonymous developer having the same problem, I seriously doubt there's going to be many developers demanding less storage space.

 

[Deg]

Its really weird this thing. First time i have heard a complaint about too much space. The old N64 Nintendo would have been proud

 

[MrSingh]

I almost shat myself when Sword of Mana for GBA sold for 6800 yen.

 

[Link316]

How's this ironic? He's complaining about having too much storage space for less than the cost of a normal GBA game there.

that's not what he's saying, he's just complaining that developers won't be able to make small games because there's only a 3800 yen cart available, for example, games like Tetris or Puyo Pop don't need all that space, they could be put on a smaller cart and sold cheaper at maybe 1000 or 2000 yen but you can't do that if there's only a 3800 yen cart available

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Do third parties regularly release 1000 or 2000 yen GBA games?

 

[ourumov]

I don't think this makes any kind of difference on PAL territories...Cheap or Expensive I am sure we are gonna see games @ 60€ as always.

 

[krypt0nian]

Interest in DS +1

Less throw away budget games!