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[Heimdall_Xtreme]

The truth and I will tell it, I have had encounters with women and in the year 2000 there are very promiscuous girls, due to the situation I experienced in Mexico, many stopped studying due to the situation of unwanted pregnancies (I have had opportunities to meet girls and the opportunity to have sex, but the truth is that I did not want it at the time because it is not the right thing to do, due to unwanted pregnancies and the commitment to have a child, I was a boy without a good job and I did not want to ruin my school and professional future), I always focus on my studies and I finished my postgraduate degree, because I have more knowledge and economic strength, fortunately I have 2 jobs and I have a salary 9 times greater than that of any other person.

However, it is difficult for me to find a girl who is ideal, especially in terms of education and morals, I feel that these times are horrible, due to the issue of women's empowerment, the situation of awakening and social networks, I feel that this they have taken away the feminine from women and they are not trustworthy, they fall in love with you and in a couple of months they get pregnant and they divorce asking or "sucking money" or demanding, and they do not contribute anything to the relationship .

I am outraged these days that men find it difficult to have confidence and especially because I already want to start a family, but current women do not give me confidence that many of them do not care about the issue of trust or love for men . ... What do you think, friends?

I am concerned about the question of the passage of time, which is more difficult.

Spoiler: spoiler

I confess that at that moment I had someone who loved me very much and I imagined my life with that girl, but because of the damn situation at the university, the envy of friends who talked behind our backs and misunderstandings that we talked about but not much was resolved , we ended a 5 year relationship and it affects me...sometimes I feel guilty about this and want to start over before time is up to have a family.

 

[Skyfox]

You have a choice, check the water for rocks and either stay on the cliff or dive in. It's a lottery either way.

 

[BlackTron]

Indeed I have the same problem, and am in a constant state of questioning myself whether the issue is just me -for example, a subconscious avoidance of wanting to do it for other reasons, so just come out with this "excuse" that women suck. Truth is, anecdotally, from growing up within my own family both immediate and extended, to what I have witnessed with my friends, to my own experiences, it does seem practically not worth it to attempt trusting anyone because the damage can be catastrophic.

It's to the extent that I feel like I had a good run having a fair amount of fun with women while dodging insane shit like Neo looking back emerging unscathed today with no lasting damage. But it required too much luck not to mess myself up and the older you get, the more you become a potential target.

Marriage / kids is a huge financial liability and you are pretty much handing yourself over to any woman you agree to go there with. Meanwhile half of all marriages in the USA end in divorce and 70% are initiated by the woman. Yet somehow if I am unable to ignore every experience, fact and knowledge I have accumulated on this I must have "trust issues". There's a fine line between trust issues and self-preservation in this dystopian environment, which, combined with my experience, is enough to push me over the edge.

I can almost feel some women feeling resentful reading this that I would sidestep this process of being taken advantage of for several decades at minimum, like a dollar that never got deposited in their companies' bank; because that's all I really am anyway, a dollar. I've seen so many women do a 180 and treat men they supposedly cared about like this, that they would have to do more to earn my trust than they are obviously willing to do by a very large factor, so fuck it.

 

[violence]

The world is so different now. Some days I wish I lived in the 1950s.

 

[Toons]

Theres plenty of great women out there you just gotta sift through the undesirables and be up front about what you want.

Generalizations won't do you any favors either way.

 

[BlackTron]

Theres plenty of great women out there you just gotta sift through the undesirables and be up front about what you want.

Generalizations won't do you any favors either way.

A major part of sifting through an undesirable could well be paying child support for 18 years, "just" do it huh? Sounds so simple!

20 years ago someone said to me "girls are evil". Who was it? A female friend of mine I used to play games and watch anime with. This was BEFORE society had imploded in on itself with social media and culture wars.

I disagree with you about generalizations too. If 90% of cars are bad on gas and 10% are good on gas, then it is not a generalization that won't do you any favors that most cars are bad on gas. You damn well better be aware of it while trying to get a car. It doesn't mean there isn't a car decent on gas out there and nobody ever said it either. The mere fact that you have to say "great women are out there, you just have to sift" practically proves the generalization that we're in dystopia. Otherwise why do you have to say that, or sift so hard?

 

[Toons]

A major part of sifting through an undesirable could well be paying child support for 18 years, "just" do it huh? Sounds so simple!

Don't have casual sex then. Or, if you do, wrap and use birth control.

20 years ago someone said to me "girls are evil". Who was it? A female friend of mine I used to play games and watch anime with. This was BEFORE society had imploded in on itself with social media and culture wars.

Girls often dislike other girls too, thats nothing new. But its from a completely different place, a place of direct completion and jealously, or a moral conflict, rather than in the context of a relationship.

I disagree with you about generalizations too. If 90% of cars are bad on gas and 10% are good on gas, then it is not a generalization that won't do you any favors that most cars are bad on gas. You damn well better be aware of it while trying to get a car. It doesn't mean there isn't a car decent on gas out there and nobody ever said it either. The mere fact that you have to say "great women are out there, you just have to sift" practically proves the generalization that we're in dystopia. Otherwise why do you have to say that, or sift so hard?

The problem with generalizing is that you dont have access to 90% of statistical examples. No one does. Generalizations don't work because it tries to apply an objective quantifier to a subjective perspective.

Where you live, what exposure you get to women, age demographic, history and so many other things have made it impossible for you, me or anyone else to be able to look down on the rest of the world and give anything close to an accurate judgement of such things. And that's before we even get into the fact that whats ok to one dude won't be cool for another.

You have to sift through the undesirables not because there are more undesirable but the desirable ones require much more effort to find and keep, and the undesirable ones tend to come easy and often. Thats nothing new either.

It would be unfair for a woman to say "90% of men are gonna abuse me so there's no point even trying", so doing that but in the opposite direction isn't any better. You have to change your perspective on the matter, and instead of lamenting that bad folks get ahead as they often too, focus on finding the good.

 

[BlackTron]

Don't have casual sex then. Or, if you do, wrap and use birth control.

When I said a major part of sifting through undesirables was risk of child support, I didn't mean risk of having kids. I meant having a kid, and then the woman decides to leave you, and there is no way to know until this happens. They can be very tactical, including being bitchy until you make a mistake to use against you, et cetera

Girls often dislike other girls too, thats nothing new. But its from a completely different place, a place of direct completion and jealously, or a moral conflict, rather than in the context of a relationship.

It not being new, or it happening often, doesn't invalidate anything; it is true it happens for different dynamics, but you shouldn't say that's the only reason, or assume the context of the conversation with my friend 20 years ago.

The problem with generalizing is that you dont have access to 90% of statistical examples. No one does. Generalizations don't work because it tries to apply an objective quantifier to a subjective perspective.

Generalizations don't work -at accomplishing what exactly? Remember, nobody ever claimed that they were supposed to predict the behavior of any individual. The only thing we are doing by generalizing here is identifying a trend. I mean, I think it's working at doing that.

Where you live, what exposure you get to women, age demographic, history and so many other things have made it impossible for you, me or anyone else to be able to look down on the rest of the world and give anything close to an accurate judgement of such things. And that's before we even get into the fact that whats ok to one dude won't be cool for another.

Should we just never discuss any real-life trends collaborated by various statistics anymore, because every person on the planet is affected by some bias? After all, we will never be able to come up with an "accurate judgement", so lets halt all discussion, without the beyond-shadow accurate judgement there's no point even beginning to try right.

You have to sift through the undesirables not because there are more undesirable but the desirable ones require much more effort to find and keep, and the undesirable ones tend to come easy and often. Thats nothing new either.

It would be unfair for a woman to say "90% of men are gonna abuse me so there's no point even trying", so doing that but in the opposite direction isn't any better. You have to change your perspective on the matter, and instead of lamenting that bad folks get ahead as they often too, focus on finding the good.

There is not the same long-term financial fallout risk on the woman if you have kids; the risk is very lopsided one way, so your example of just flipping the 90/10 thing doesn't really make sense.

 

[Toons]

When I said a major part of sifting through undesirables was risk of child support, I didn't mean risk of having kids. I meant having a kid, and then the woman decides to leave you, and there is no way to know until this happens. They can be very tactical, including being bitchy until you make a mistake to use against you, et cetera

Theres also a risk that after a woman marries a man he will become an alcoholic and beat her within an inch of her life.

Theres always a risk. If you can't handle there being a risk, then you dont trust the person you're considering enough. Of you dont trust them enough, dont have a baby with them.

Theres no risk free investment when having a kid, or being in a relationship period. There never was. Also if you're going to have a kid, you should be willing to pay to support that kid regardless of what the mother does. Your love for your child should be entirely independent for whatever relationship you have with their mother. If you cannot do this, then do NOT have children.

It not being new, or it happening often, doesn't invalidate anything; it is true it happens for different dynamics, but you shouldn't say that's the only reason, or assume the context of the conversation with my friend 20 years ago.

I didnt assume anything, but you didn't give anything, so I have to go on general concepts, which I myself admit arent accurate to reality. Its literally all i have to work on with something like this.

Generalizations don't work -at accomplishing what exactly? Remember, nobody ever claimed that they were supposed to predict the behavior of any individual. The only thing we are doing by generalizing here is identifying a trend. I mean, I think it's working at doing that.

And what trend is that exactly?

generalizations arent great at identifying trends because identifying trends requires a large specimen, very large, larger than any one person has access to. Its virtually always entirely anecdotal and colored by personal bias, and experiences that are not universal.

Should we just never discuss any real-life trends collaborated by various statistics anymore, because every person on the planet is affected by some bias? After all, we will never be able to come up with an "accurate judgement", so lets halt all discussion, without the beyond-shadow accurate judgement there's no point even beginning to try right.

discussing trends, even locally isn't always bad. But using it as a universal rule of thumb, or as an attempt to qualify and entire populace of 4 billion people, is a bridge too far. All things in moderation, all things in balance, and being open to alternative takes is the better way.

There is not the same long-term financial fallout risk on the woman if you have kids; the risk is very lopsided one way, so your example of just flipping the 90/10 thing doesn't really make sense.

This isnt even true. Not every man who has a kid is loaded, obviously. Being a single mother is not a cakewalk, lest every single mother would be riding high right now. They arent. They are usually at the lowest rung of the social ladder, having to work multiple jobs to support themselves, struggling to find future companions who do not want to be a step-dad, etc etc.

If you want to talk trends, the statistics for single mothers speak for themselves. The notion that women pop out kids with just any dude and then live out their days in squalor is a ficiton. And again, it doesn't matter because it takes two to make a kid, and if you're making a kid, you should be willing to support that kid financially regardless of what the mother does.

 

[West Texas CEO]

I like celery. And this thread is full of incelery.

 

[JayK47]

There are a ton of men's channels on yourtube. Most agree to take it easy these days and stay away from "high mileage" women. Take your time and make sure to find a woman with similar values. It helps to meet them in places more likely to find one with similar values. You may need to move to a small town and/or go to church.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

You have a choice, check the water for rocks and either stay on the cliff or dive in. It's a lottery either way.

Friend, can you please explain that analogy to me?

It's just that sometimes I don't understand the analogies

Now friends... can you start a family or be a father at 40 or 50 years old?

I am young but it is a concern, I am not yet that age.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Wow you guys sure are jaded.

There are no guarantees of anything, find someone and try get to know them well, hope they like you as much as you do and go from there.

Truth is there is no certainty in life, you just have to try, or not.

 

[bitbydeath]

I think the internet blows out a lot of these issues to be bigger than they are. Most people are normal everyday folk who are just looking to get through the day without any agendas.

 

[BlackTron]

Theres also a risk that after a woman marries a man he will become an alcoholic and beat her within an inch of her life.

Theres always a risk. If you can't handle there being a risk, then you dont trust the person you're considering enough. Of you dont trust them enough, dont have a baby with them.

Of course there is a risk that exists for a woman, but the fact that it exists doesn't really invalidate a discussion about our (real or imagined) marginally increased sense of risk to trust a girl due to (real or imagined) changed/changing social factors. Yes, there is a chance a man could become an alcoholic and beat the shit out of her. Are the chances of that higher or lower today today than in the past? I don't know. The idea behind this thread is that there is a greater flight risk for women after you have a kid now than in the past, which seems both anecdotally and statistically viable. Enough to give you pause and raise your defenses.

 

[Embearded]

You need to provide statistics.
I can as easily tell you that where i live this isn't common and it is men who to my experience, fuck around and break their marriages.

 

[BlackTron]

I think the internet blows out a lot of these issues to be bigger than they are. Most people are normal everyday folk who are just looking to get through the day without any agendas.

I do think these issues are often blown out of proportion, though what I'm saying is nothing compared to some stuff out there lol.

TBH, I used to be perhaps TOO plucky and optimistic, keeping up a fighting spirit and bizarrely dodging bullets through sheer naivete. Not even realizing how narrow the escape from doom was until later. Now I've just accumulated too much wisdom and experience and I'm tired of that shit.

 

[Toons]

Of course there is a risk that exists for a woman, but the fact that it exists doesn't really invalidate a discussion about our (real or imagined) marginally increased sense of risk to trust a girl due to (real or imagined) changed/changing social factors. Yes, there is a chance a man could become an alcoholic and beat the shit out of her. Are the chances of that higher or lower today today than in the past? I don't know. The idea behind this thread is that there is a greater flight risk for women after you have a kid now than in the past, which seems both anecdotally and statistically viable. Enough to give you pause and raise your defenses.

I mean.... is there? Men, just like everyone else, are statistically less well off than they were 40 years ago. The cost of living has gone up exponentially and the wages haven't really met that, so even a dude paying child support cant offer as much as one once could.

Marriages in general are enduring less, its not just about kids, and its not just about women. What THAT speaks to is a different conversation.

But if you're talking about trepidation regarding entering a relationship with the fear that the woman will bear a child with you, then leave you and recieve child support for the child, those have been addressed. Do not have children, and be up front about that early in the relationship. If you do intend to have children, be ready willing and able to pay up. The kid didnt do anything; they didn't ask to get made.

Theres no get out of jail free card for either side, unless you make an income in the six to 7 figures range. And even then; the child needs that support and a lot more, and the mother is probably going to have other issues to deal with outside of finances.

 

[BlackTron]

You need to provide statistics.
I can as easily tell you that where i live this isn't common and it is men who to my experience, fuck around and break their marriages.

Revealing Divorce Statistics In 2023

Most people have heard that half of all marriages end in divorce, but is there more to the story? These divorce statistics shed more light on when and how marriages come to an end in the United States. Read on to find out the truth about who is dissolving their marriages.

www.forbes.com

This has a wealth of stats but as not to call upon anyone clicking Forbes just for this thread, here are the relevant parts. Yes the article actually contains references lol.

So, what about the famous statistic that half of all marriages end in divorce? That’s true, but only when it comes to first marriages, half of which are dissolved. Second and third marriages actually fail at a far higher rate.

69% of Divorces Are Initiated by Women

 

[BlackTron]

I mean.... is there? Men, just like everyone else, are statistically less well off than they were 40 years ago. The cost of living has gone up exponentially and the wages haven't really met that, so even a dude paying child support cant offer as much as one once could.

Marriages in general are enduring less, its not just about kids, and its not just about women. What THAT speaks to is a different conversation.

But if you're talking about trepidation regarding entering a relationship with the fear that the woman will bear a child with you, then leave you and recieve child support for the child, those have been addressed. Do not have children, and be up front about that early in the relationship. If you do intend to have children, be ready willing and able to pay up. The kid didnt do anything; they didn't ask to get made.

Theres no get out of jail free card for either side, unless you make an income in the six to 7 figures range. And even then; the child needs that support and a lot more, and the mother is probably going to have other issues to deal with outside of finances.

Honestly I could deal with the way you approach arguments talking about movies but in a topic like this it's getting really annoying. At this rate, we will have to go over every other problem in their entire lives. "Don't worry about the question of if things are changing with women, because...they also have problems and have to support kids, which didn't ask to get made, the only solution is 6 figures" dude what the hell lol. I'm backing out of this topic now because it's not a good one to be engaging at console war levels of discourse, sorry I even went there

 

[EviLore]

You can cite statistics that half of marriages end in divorce and most are initiated by women, 18 years of child support and asset splits, but you should accompany that with the stats that married couples build substantially more wealth than singles (over 3x that of single males for ages under 35, increasing with age), more than offsetting divorce costs. They have substantially higher life satisfaction, and a lot of the perceived downsides have to do with the cost of raising children, which is a biological imperative and generally net positive endeavor despite the financial burden. Yes, a bad divorce can be really, really bad, and you can’t always insulate yourself from it, but there’s still a strong argument in favor of partnering up all around.

Don’t let cynicism and bad experiences poison the well for your future. Lord knows I understand, but let it go and be constructive with your life. Life has been going on for a long time, we haven’t suddenly learned a better way to live by being alone compared to thousands of years of seeking companionship.

 

[DeafTourette]

There's someone out there who checks all of your desirable boxes... Doesn't mean they will want you or are single.

Just be a GOOD person and the right woman FOR YOU will come. Don't push someone away because of some arbitrary item on your list that she doesn't check off ... Get to know her... I mean REALLY get to know her. And let her do the same of you. Be prepared to be vulnerable... Be prepared to share your thoughts and memories with her... No one is perfect. Jesus loved his flock, of which many were sinners and "not the right kind" of people.

 

[Mistake]

Once I stopped caring so much and let the girls chase me, things started working out. I wouldn't recommend online dating at all, but if you must, bumble or okcupid are better. More options and things to talk about. You can see who is more genuine. I will say this though, when I lived abroad it was 10x easier to go out with a girl and just have a few drinks. If things didn't click it was no big deal. Stateside, people are a lot more jaded and it was like pulling teeth

Now that things are more back to normal, it's probably a better idea to go to group activities or events to meet people instead. Meeting under the condition of common interests is always a lot easier

 

[Dice]

I will say this though, when I lived abroad it was 10x easier to go out with a girl and just have a few drinks. If things didn't click it was no big deal. Stateside, people are a lot more jaded and it was like pulling teeth

Can confirm. Something is horribly wrong around romance in the US.

 

[Nobody_Important]

I don't understand the premise or the explanation.


What does the empowerment of women have to do with lack of trust or whatever?

 

[-Minsc-]

Been married a year. It is certainly a test. The hard thing I have wrapping my head around is that we both have to make sacrifices. It's all too easy in my short-sightedness to believe that I'm always giving up things. Respectfully speaking my mind (and she speaking hers) is important. I can have a difficult time opening up how I feel so marriage has been a good challenge for me in that regard.

My wife is not perfect in my eyes. Whatever my abstract idea of perfection I have is not something she can ever be. Nor can I be her idea of perfection.

I'd be careful to not blame things on womens empowerment. It's not all that long ago women were not seen as people by men. Of course, women can get drunk on empowerment the same way men can abuse power.

To meet my wife I got of the internet and went to church. Getting off the internet and meeting people face to face is a great step toward pulling our own head out of our own ass. Meeting people in person allowed me to develop my own social skills and allowed my wife and I to first distantly know each other. When Covid happened the opportunity presented it self for us to start conversing via email and then meeting one on one. Some non-sexual romance ensued. When we formally became a couple we both agreed no sex until marriage and we'd be married within two years or part ways. I had a lot of fears to face to get married. Honestly, I'm still facing fears. Now we are trying for a child so that'll be a whole new can of worms. We are mentally preparing ourselves the best we can with the understanding we can not be one hundred percent prepared.

To get married I had to and continue to face fear and uncertainty. In order to face all this I turned toward God because I knew I could not do it alone.

 

[digital_ghost]

The truth and I will tell it, I have had encounters with women and in the year 2000 there are very promiscuous girls, due to the situation I experienced in Mexico, many stopped studying due to the situation of unwanted pregnancies (I have had opportunities to meet girls and the opportunity to have sex, but the truth is that I did not want it at the time because it is not the right thing to do, due to unwanted pregnancies and the commitment to have a child, I was a boy without a good job and I did not want to ruin my school and professional future), I always focus on my studies and I finished my postgraduate degree, because I have more knowledge and economic strength, fortunately I have 2 jobs and I have a salary 9 times greater than that of any other person.

However, it is difficult for me to find a girl who is ideal, especially in terms of education and morals, I feel that these times are horrible, due to the issue of women's empowerment, the situation of awakening and social networks, I feel that this they have taken away the feminine from women and they are not trustworthy, they fall in love with you and in a couple of months they get pregnant and they divorce asking or "sucking money" or demanding, and they do not contribute anything to the relationship .

I am outraged these days that men find it difficult to have confidence and especially because I already want to start a family, but current women do not give me confidence that many of them do not care about the issue of trust or love for men . ... What do you think, friends?

I am concerned about the question of the passage of time, which is more difficult.

Spoiler: spoiler

I confess that at that moment I had someone who loved me very much and I imagined my life with that girl, but because of the damn situation at the university, the envy of friends who talked behind our backs and misunderstandings that we talked about but not much was resolved , we ended a 5 year relationship and it affects me...sometimes I feel guilty about this and want to start over before time is up to have a family.

I wish you were born a girl
Wish you were born a girl
So I could've been your boyfriend
I know
It's not possible now
I just never met a girl
I like half as much as you

And we
Could lay around in bed
Stay there all day
Or at least until the afternoon
And I
Could make you spaghetti with tomato sauce
With just a touch of oregano
And a parsley stem

And then
When you got sick
I could take the day off work
I could've made you chicken soup
And we
Could watch soap operas, oh, those TV dramas
I could catch your cold
And you could take care of me, mmm

If I could've met you at school
Or met you at work
It would've changed everything
Those years
Of losing, confusion and insecurity
They would've been shared
They would've been easier

Oh, wish you were born a girl
Wish you were born a girl
So I could've been your fiancé
I'm not saying you can't be all these things for me
But it's just not the same
'Cause you're a man
And so am I

 

[Walter Matthau]

There are many great trustworthy women out there hoping to find a great trustworthy man.

If you're worried about someone only interested in you for your money you'll see warning signs emerge over the course of dating.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

I don't understand the premise or the explanation.


What does the empowerment of women have to do with lack of trust or whatever?

I think he’s saying that “empowered” women don’t need no man, but they will take his money and run, therefore it’s hard to trust their intentions. It sounds to me like he’s also saying that he makes a lot of money and it’s hard to find a woman who is also educated and financially independent so that they’re starting the relationship off on some kind of equal footing. That’s the wealthy person’s curse, everyone wants a piece of the pie and it’s hard to trust anyone. Tell you what OP, I’ll hang onto that fortune for you while you hunt for a woman, and because I will generously carry this burden for you, you can be sure that any woman you meet will love you for you and not my money…I mean your money.

 

[Hudo]

Hug you spouses/girlfriends/boyfriends more often and just because.

Hugs are fucking underrated.

 

[West Texas CEO]

Hugs are fucking underrated.

ÆMNE22A!C

 

[AJUMP23]

It is tough out there at times and social media I think has really hurt the dating scene. But if you quit a relationship because of outside noise I think that is a tough choice. Look for people that want the things you want and then while you should have some concern for a person's past, you love the person for who they are today, not what they were in the past.

 

[Skyfox]

Friend, can you please explain that analogy to me?

It's just that sometimes I don't understand the analogies

Now friends... can you start a family or be a father at 40 or 50 years old?

I am young but it is a concern, I am not yet that age.

Sorry it was a poorly worded analogy. I meant that cliff diving is thrilling and fun but some people won't take the risk and miss out.

Other people do jump and land on rocks.

The man's age matter less than the woman's age. For her first child she should be under 36 or else you risk down syndrome.

 

[-Minsc-]

Hug you spouses/girlfriends/boyfriends more often and just because.

Hugs are fucking underrated.

Add holding hands and quick kisses to the list.

 

[West Texas CEO]

you love the person for who they are today, not what they were in the past.

ÆMNE22A!C

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

Dont be so semi crytic younglin. Of course i Luv ya ♡

 

[ÆMNE22A!C]

Heimdall_Xtreme ♡

 

[West Texas CEO]

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I think that social networks and the envy of my friends are the great fault of all this... Especially on Instagram, whenever I see a woman or girl with tattoos, I feel disappointed... Plus Hollywood's crude ideas about the empowerment that "I can do it alone, I don't need a man"

 

[Walter Matthau]

I think that social networks and the envy of my friends are the great fault of all this... Especially on Instagram, whenever I see a woman or girl with tattoos, I feel disappointed... Plus Hollywood's crude ideas about the empowerment that "I can do it alone, I don't need a man"

No-one should "need" anyone else. A relationship is about helping each other lead a more fulfilling life. The two people in that relationship should want to be together, not stay together out of fear. If you are afraid that someone might end up leaving you because a movie says it's ok to then you may want to focus on your confidence and try to become the best version of yourself possible.

Try to keep an open mind about tattoos. Many tattoos can be commemorative or symbolic and even those that aren't are generally pretty innocent.

 

[Facism]

Condoms

 

[DeafTourette]

Heimdall_Xtreme to add on a bit to what Walter Matthau said, tattoos can also be cultural.

To add onto what I said earlier... Don't be too strict about your idea of an "acceptable woman". There are plenty of Catholic and/or other Christian women who are devout get have tattoos.

We all have pasts. Jesus didn't condemn his followers for having a checkered past.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

you are right friends.

I think that in these September holidays I will be in a club to learn dancing or go to a church to meet people.

Because only Saturdays and Sundays are the days that I have totally free.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

I wish you were born a girl
Wish you were born a girl
So I could've been your boyfriend
I know
It's not possible now
I just never met a girl
I like half as much as you

And we
Could lay around in bed
Stay there all day
Or at least until the afternoon
And I
Could make you spaghetti with tomato sauce
With just a touch of oregano
And a parsley stem

And then
When you got sick
I could take the day off work
I could've made you chicken soup
And we
Could watch soap operas, oh, those TV dramas
I could catch your cold
And you could take care of me, mmm

If I could've met you at school
Or met you at work
It would've changed everything
Those years
Of losing, confusion and insecurity
They would've been shared
They would've been easier

Oh, wish you were born a girl
Wish you were born a girl
So I could've been your fiancé
I'm not saying you can't be all these things for me
But it's just not the same
'Cause you're a man
And so am I

 

[Happosai]

I like celery. And this thread is full of incelery.

It most certainly is. A few hams and sour grapes too. Not a lot of cherry picking.