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Karzai: Taliban Killing Civilians in "service to America"

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UltimaKilo

Gold Member
KABUL—America's fraught ties with Afghanistan suffered a jarring blow Sunday, when Afghan President Hamid Karzai said during a visit by the new U.S. defense secretary that the Taliban were killing Afghan civilians "in service to America."

The remarks, in a televised speech hours before Mr. Karzai's meeting with U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, capped a series of confrontations between the Afghan president and the U.S. over his demands to assert Afghan sovereignty and curtail American military operations.

Mr. Karzai met Mr. Hagel a day after suspected Taliban suicide bombers killed at least 18 people at the Ministry of Defense in Kabul and in the eastern province of Khost.

In his address, Mr. Karzai said the U.S. doesn't want to leave the country after the NATO coalition's mandate expires at the end of 2014 because it covets Afghan resources and is talking with Taliban leaders behind his back.

"Taliban are every day in talks with America, but in Kabul and Khost they set off bombs to show strength to America," Mr. Karzai said. "The bombs that went off in Kabul and Khost yesterday were not a show of power to America, but were in service to America…It was in the service of foreigners not withdrawing from Afghanistan."

U.S. Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford, who took command of coalition forces last month, called Mr. Karzai's charges "categorically false."

"We have fought too hard over the past 12 years, we have shed too much blood over the last 12 years, we have done too much to help the Afghan security forces grow over the last 12 years to ever think that violence or instability would ever be to our advantage," he said.

Mr. Karzai's remarks blindsided American officials who had hoped to use Mr. Hagel's two-day visit, his first overseas trip as defense secretary, to shore up fragile relations with the Afghan president as the U.S. ends its longest foreign war.

Though most of the 66,000 U.S. troops now in Afghanistan are slated to go home next year, the U.S. hopes to leave behind an advisory and counterterrorism force that would support the Afghan government after 2014.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...1963393889782.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

I know Karzai is dropping in popularity with the Afghan public and his term is up next year, but he's gone too far. I'm no stranger to diplomacy, but I'm sick of this rhetoric from Karzai...
 
I believe that if the U.S. felt the fragile Afghan government could stand on its own, the troops would be gone by now. But as soon as we pull out, the Taliban will go on the offensive and probably will be back in control in a matter of months.
 
I believe that if the U.S. felt the fragile Afghan government could stand on its own, the troops would be gone by now. But as soon as we pull out, the Taliban will go on the offensive and probably will be back in control in a matter of months.
Well and you cant do anything to stop them. So get out.
 

Kenka

Member
What the hell.
And you can bet the officials' answer to this will not put an end to this masquerade. Who is fighting who already ? Nonsense.

tumblr_m7haj1rSjM1rywvpto1_500.gif
 

UltimaKilo

Gold Member
I believe that if the U.S. felt the fragile Afghan government could stand on its own, the troops would be gone by now. But as soon as we pull out, the Taliban will go on the offensive and probably will be back in control in a matter of months.

The fact is that the latest assessment report showed that most Afghan troops could not survive without U.S. assistance, and even the two brigades that could stand independently depend heavily on U.S. intel and air support.

Karzai speaks like this every time his popularity takes a dip. The fact is the U.S. and NATO have pulled out a lot of troops this year and violence is on the rise. The Afghan infrastructure is abysmal at best, and the biggest impediment is an uneducated illiterate society and the blatant level of corruption inside the Karzai government.

So Karzai promises the U.S. and NATO he is doing his best to weed out corruption and promises more cooperation in front of world leaders, but when he is home the rhetoric is very, very different.
 

Zzoram

Member
The Taliban got what was coming to them. I don't understand why we bother talking to them. We need to get out of there now.



The Taliban will have probably assassinated him well before that.

The Taliban weren't finished off because Bush wanted Iraq so badly he let them escape. Now the Taliban is really powerful because they're getting rich from opium sales to the US and have a huge army that will easily take back the country when the US leaves.

The US is talking to them because it's become clear they can't kill them all at this point and the Afghan army isn't going to be up to snuff for years.
 
The Taliban got what was coming to them. I don't understand why we bother talking to them. We need to get out of there now.



The Taliban will have probably assassinated him well before that.

Taliban may not have become what it did if the US had stuck around to clean up the mess it helped make in the first.
You guys created your own monsters.
 
Taliban may not have become what it did if the US had stuck around to clean up the mess it helped make in the first.
You guys created your own monsters fucking deal with it.

There wasn't an official US presence back then. It was a proxy to fight off Soviet expansion. Arming the mujahadeen fighters to fight the Soviets didn't make them what they are today. You could make this arguement for Saddam in Iraq, but not Afghanistan.
 

Jburton

Banned
The hope is to get the Afghan forces up to speed before the pull-out so that they CAN stop them when the foreign troops go home. No one really wants a Taliban government back in power there.

Not necessarily true, the Taliban would not be as successful without a large degree of popular support ........ I think you might find a lot of Afghan citizens want the Taliban back.


I also think it speaks volumes that NATO are negotiating with the Taliban, says a lot about the power and influence the Taliban have ....... they will decide what happens to Afghanistan when NATO withdraw.
 
The Taliban got what was coming to them.

Can you elaborate? I haven't followed what's happened since the war very closely, but it seems that the Taliban are now stronger than ever and were allowed to spread their idealogical garbage to neighbouring Pakistan because the US took their eye off the ball and went into Iraq.

Now you have a group that's stronger than ever and has a strong base in two countries that's probably growing thanks to the drone strikes in Pakistan. The Taliban will undoubtedly take back Afghanistan with ease when the US and other nations withdraw.
 
Can you elaborate? I haven't followed what's happened since the war very closely, but it seems that the Taliban are now stronger than ever and were allowed to spread their idealogical garbage to neighbouring Pakistan because the US took their eye off the ball and went into Iraq.

Now you have a group that's stronger than ever and has a strong base in two countries that's probably growing thanks to the drone strikes in Pakistan. The Taliban will undoubtedly take back Afghanistan with ease when the US and other nations withdraw.

I'm not disputing the fact that the Taliban is stronger. I was responding to the post saying that the US should have left the Afghanistan alone. The Taliban got exactly what was coming after 9/11, but we messed up by going to Iraq and thinking the Taliban wouldn't fight back. Now it's too late. Karzai is a dead man walking. His rhetoric against the US is proof of that. The Taliban will have him killed in no time after the US leaves.
 
Yeah, and his term is coming to an end.

Lol, sounds like a movie trailer.

I'm not disputing the fact that the Taliban is stronger. I was responding to the post saying that the US should have left the Afghanistan alone. The Taliban got exactly what was coming after 9/11, but we messed up by going to Iraq and thinking the Taliban wouldn't fight back. Now it's too late. Karzai is a dead man walking. His rhetoric against the US is proof of that. The Taliban will have him killed in no time after the US leaves.

Taliban didn't do 9/11, and if you want to blame the Taliban, they were strengthened and fully supported by the west to fight against the Soviets.
 
Karzai sure is mouthy for a puppet whose very existence depends on US. It almost sounds like he's constantly trying to ingratiate himself with the Taliban, like that shit is going to work out.
 
There wasn't an official US presence back then. It was a proxy to fight off Soviet expansion. Arming the mujahadeen fighters to fight the Soviets didn't make them what they are today. You could make this arguement for Saddam in Iraq, but not Afghanistan.


Flooding weapons into the country combined with 70-90,000 deaths mostly men didnt exactly help now did it?
After arming (and by some accounts even training) the Mujhadeen America had a responsibility to (at the very least) guide the region through the reconstruction effort. Instead you bailed and wiped your hands of the whole thing right up until it was convenient. So yes the Taliban as it is now is Americas responsibility
 
Lol, sounds like a movie trailer.



Taliban didn't do 9/11, and if you want to blame the Taliban, they were strengthened and fully supported by the west to fight against the Soviets.

They harbored OBL who openly claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. That's good enough for me. Yes we strengthened them and gave them the means to fight the Soviets. My point is that they were there anyway whether we strengthened them or not. We didn't pluck every religious zealot we could find and drop them in Afghanistan.

Flooding weapons into the country combined with 70-90,000 deaths mostly men didnt exactly help now did it?
After arming (and by some accounts even training) the Mujhadeen America had a responsibility to (at the very least) guide the region through the reconstruction effort. Instead you bailed and wiped your hands of the whole thing right up until it was convenient. So yes the Taliban as it is now is Americas responsibility

That could never have happened during the Cold War. It was a proxy and coming out like that would have risked open aggression from the Soviets.
 

joedan

Member
They harbored OBL who openly claimed responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. That's good enough for me. Yes we strengthened them and gave them the means to fight the Soviets. My point is that they were there anyway whether we strengthened them or not. We didn't pluck every religious zealot we could find and drop them in Afghanistan.



That could never have happened during the Cold War. It was a proxy and coming out like that would have risked open aggression from the Soviets.

The Taliban offered up Bin Laden to a neutral court if the US provided evidence of his involvement.
 
Thanks Karzai for another good reason to leave. Hopefully we'll be out of there soon. Let it rot. We don't have the money to fix the place and we don't even have a clue how to fix the place. Afghanistan seems like that island that Lara Croft is stuck on.
 
Thanks Karzai for another good reason to leave. Hopefully we'll be out of there soon. Let it rot. We don't have the money to fix the place and we don't even have a clue how to fix the place. Afghanistan seems like that island that Lara Croft is stuck on.

agree. our money would be better used shoring up better allies, like the PI islands
 
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