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[S0ULZB0URNE]

.

Yeah I know, not an actual game. But still. A fully explorable and totally realtime photorealistic city.


Yeah I mean, going from a Sony Bravia LCD to an LG C3 must have been quite the jump, I can imagine.

Let's just agree to disagree on AW2 as it felt too crude to me, "plasticky" skins and not enough bounce/indirect soft lights.
It actually still does look a bit crude to me even with all the RT.

Looks a generation better as does Demon's Souls

I already told you my 4090 is going to smoke this game. You'll try to say some nonsense about me not using Max Settings. I'll remind you that the consoles aren't even using High settings and still running awful while laughing.

I see 30fps across the board and GL!

 

[FalconPunch]

They do, you just gota experience them for yourself and stop watching compressed youtube videos.

It mostly doesn't and I own a 4090. There are like 3-5 games where this is true and it's due to heavy RT. AW2, Cyberpunk and maybe ubisoft's Avatar but it's highly debatable. Other than these 3, the 4090 doesn't deliver a 3x improvement in visuals. The rest just look like cleaner console games at a higher resolution/framerate. The effects you can enable are basically not game changing imo. It's why my steam deck is getting so much work nowadays because the improvements you get on pc are a joke. You also get the privilege of UE stutter and bad performance relative to the hardware. At least on steam deck, shaders are precompiled.

 

[Three]

They outdo them in framerate and res because that's the easiest thing to scale but other than that games aren't being designed for monster specs. I think more and more they're going towards lower power, lower cost, handheld, and mobile. They will try and maximise the audience more and more and just have the game only "run better" for the enthusiasts.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Because games aren’t being made for the highest tier, they just get enhanced from lower tier levels.

B I N G O .

 

[Playboi Carti]

Because PC games also have minimum requirements, that'll always dictate how hard you can push the visuals/simulation, if you told a high budget studio to make a game with a 4090 and a beefy CPU paired with 32GB of RAM as the minimum requirements you could literally make a game with "PS6" or next-gen visuals today.

 

[SHA]

Hardware is just silicon pieces assembled together, it's not expensive, if you think it's expensive, they lied to you. games are different, they're already expensive, there is no middle man in the process.

 

[FalconPunch]

Because PC games also have minimum requirements, that'll always dictate how hard you can push the visuals/simulation, if you made a game with a 4090 and a beefy CPU paired with 32GB of RAM as the minimum requirements you could literally make a game with "PS6" or next-gen visuals today.

You could but no one will and that's the problem. It makes you feel like you wasted your money buying a 4090 which I did. I will never buy a 90 class card again. The gains are not worth it.

 

[Zathalus]

It really depends on the game. Something like Cyberpunk 2077 has a massive difference while others like AC: Valhalla are insignificant.

Higher resolutions and frame rate will always be a plus though. DLSS/DLAA is also better then any other reconstruction/AA method out there.

 

[Playboi Carti]

You could but no one will and that's the problem. It makes you feel like you wasted your money buying a 4090 which I did. I will never buy a 90 class card again. The gains are not worth it.

Yeah no one will, but hypothetically it could still be done, that's what we're discussing here

 

[Senua]

Doesn't change the lowest denominator being the PC.

That's always been the beauty of PC gaming, that games can scale from a little 1070 to a 4090 and make use of em all!

 

[Astray]

Because if a company made its games only playable for the owners of bleeding edge gpus, they'd simply go out of business.

 

[rodrigolfp]

why do I not see the Vastly improved visuals?

Same reason you don't see vastly improved visuals on cross gen games.

 

[Sanepar]

They do, maybe u are blind

 

[Gaiff]

Looks a generation better as does Demon's Souls

I see 30fps across the board and GL!

You just can't help making an ass out of yourself, huh?

 

[Topher]

That's always been the beauty of PC gaming, that games can scale from a little 1070 to a 4090 and make use of em all!

Since consoles are all based on PC tech now, they are essentially just another in a long list of potential configurations on the PC spectrum. Handheld PCs are based on the same tech as consoles.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

That's always been the beauty of PC gaming, that games can scale from a little 1070 to a 4090 and make use of em all!

That's the terrible thing about PC gaming actually.
This is why performance and issues arise.
Console exclusives look better.

Publishers/devs are to scared to take the nipple out of the mouth of old architecture and low ram 8-16gb builds hence its usually a generation behind.
Requiring fake resolution and brute force muscle instead of optimizations.

 

[Senua]

That's the terrible thing about PC gaming actually.
This is why performance and issues arise.
Console exclusives look better.

Publishers/devs are to scared to take the nipple out of the mouth of old architecture and low ram 8-16gb builds hence its usually a generation behind.
Requiring fake resolution and brute force muscle instead of optimizations.

 

[twilo99]

Because most games are optimized for consoles, which holds back overall progress.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Because most games are optimized for consoles, which holds back overall progress.

Nope

 

[hemo memo]

They do. How I know? I’ve been playing consoles all my life and just switched to PC recently. They absolutely do.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The vast majority of PC games are also cross platform with consoles and only a few games really try to leverage any technology above the console version like Cyberpunk

 

[Senua]

I will never know how you can constantly shit-post and never, not once catch a ban. It's quite commendable

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I will never know how you can constantly shit-post and never, not once catch a ban. It's quite commendable

Throughout this thread you have given shit to people that don't agree with you.
Gtfoh with your bs!

 

[kungfuian]

I know Nvidia doesn't have any problem selling cards but it would be really cool if they had their own Studios. Love to see them make at least one super high-end game that takes full advantage of their hardware each card release. They do a pretty good job of partnering with studios to offer things like cyberpunk with path tracing but it would be neat to see games built from the ground up for their highest end cards. Even if it was only a handful and they were sort of small tech demo type games it would be cool.

 

[64bitmodels]

Because if a company made its games only playable for the owners of bleeding edge gpus, they'd simply go out of business.

Why not make games specifically with a 4090 and ryzen 9 build in mind then scale down appropriately for consoles rather than the opposite approach of making a switch game that's scaled up to a 4090 spec?

 

[BennyBlanco]

I know Nvidia doesn't have any problem selling cards but it would be really cool if they had their own Studios. Love to see them make at least one super high-end game that takes full advantage of their hardware each card release. They do a pretty good job of partnering with studios to offer things like cyberpunk with path tracing but it would be neat to see games built from the ground up for their highest end cards. Even if it was only a handful and they were sort of small tech demo type games it would be cool.

Nvidia handpicks games to make sweet love to. Cyberpunk and Alan Wake recently, and they both look better than anything on consoles. But allow a bunch of people with Kratos avatars who have never experienced any of this to tell you why this is wrong.

 

[64bitmodels]

Console exclusives look better.

That has nothing to do with pcs approach to gaming as much as it does simply PC exclusives being indies/AA games with not as many resources or talent as the people making single player games for consoles.

And also, it's only ps5 games that look crazy. Xbox games and Nintendo games are nowhere near that graphical level

 

[Buggy Loop]

And also, it's only ps5 games that look crazy. Xbox games and Nintendo games are nowhere near that graphical level

And have yet to beat the PS4 TLoU 2 for the most part.... except for the PS5 port of said title.

It's as if you need huge budgets from a huge publishing house to make those type of games and even that it's pretty unique in the whole business in fact

Anyway the PC screenshot thread already showcases that the difference between the ultra settings and upscaling solutions make it already equivalent in image quality to what you would judge PS5 versus PS4. PC vs PS5 is like PS5 vs PS4. Insert here the jedi survivor PS5 pixel soup images.

 

[Astray]

Why not make games specifically with a 4090 and ryzen 9 build in mind then scale down appropriately for consoles rather than the opposite approach of making a switch game that's scaled up to a 4090 spec?

You cannot guarantee that a game will scale down properly, but you can guarantee that a game will scale up.

Plus, 4090 owners are a minority in the market, why isolate yourself from the 4060/4070 owners?

 

[CamHostage]

I still somewhat agree with the op, unless you own a 4000 series card with framegen and enhanced rtx, the benefit of PC comes from enhanced performance and less so enhanced graphics

It's for sure not the difference between a $3g PC rig and a $500-600 set-top box that you'd hope for. You get cleaner graphics, more high-resolution graphics, more solid framerate or higher framerate graphics... you get the ideal graphics of what the game is built for. But even in PC remasterings, you don't get anything mind-blowingly evolved or overlayed with further layers of detail and lighting accuracy; you don't even get perfectly presented graphics, there's still shader issues and limitations of the visual rendering technology. And beyond graphics, there's nothing of that market left where PC could produce a bleeding-edge technology showcase in physics and complexity. There's just no money in excusively making high-end PC-only product capable of only elite-level gear for games which uses tech not capable anywhere else for years to come.

(And budget/targeting comes in before you ask the question of, What is the technology that elite-level PC games could be using but isn't? When you look around at where the advancements in software technology is, it's more about efficiency and offline ML learning and simulation representation that isn't dependent on big, beefy machines.)

 

[Tqaulity]

To the untrained eye (which is like 90% of people playing games), the difference from a purely visual perspective is not that large anymore. Taking framerate out of it, I think the OP is pointing out that we don't see obvious visual differences in games on today's consoles and top spec PCs. In other words:

Yeah pretty obvious right? My mom can see the difference. Versus:

Mom would have to stare quite a bit longer to spot any differences on the bottom 3 . Sure, the reflection in the puddle in the Cybperpunk shot and some slight shading differences (and resolution clarity) throughout. But I'd be hard pressed to call that a massive difference to the average person that don't know about graphics and what they are looking at.

The culprit primarily is diminishing returns on the hardware where the TRUE limiting factor is the software (and people writing it). As has been said here, games are not targeting a 4090 level of hardware and it's simply relegated to being an accelerant for game engines designed for much lower specs. Now what you do get is much high framerates and in some select cases, some additional graphics features (i.e Path tracing, AI upscaling etc). But the fundamental game assets and content are pretty much identical these days.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Because the top selling console is the benchmark in every generation....

You don't make games for that 1% of gamers that have a $4000 PC

 

[Jesb]

It’s because consoles exist and are the main target for videogames.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

Until a game can make the visuals look better than the best blu-ray movie (which are 1080p)

...should we tell him?

 

[Del_X]

Not being constrained to 30-60fps is nice. Image quality at high frame rates is also a huge bonus. These don’t demo well on YouTube.

Also, all these PS5 games mentioned will eventually be on PC so I don’t really get the argument. “Oh no, you can’t play this slop at launch.” The story and gameplay will be identical whether it releases 12 months or two years later (or gets emulated a decade later).

 

[Senua]

To the untrained eye (which is like 90% of people playing games), the difference from a purely visual perspective is not that large anymore. Taking framerate out of it, I think the OP is pointing out that we don't see obvious visual differences in games on today's consoles and top spec PCs. In other words:

Yeah pretty obvious right? My mom can see the difference. Versus:

Mom would have to stare quite a bit longer to spot any differences on the bottom 3 . Sure, the reflection in the puddle in the Cybperpunk shot and some slight shading differences (and resolution clarity) throughout. But I'd be hard pressed to call that a massive difference to the average person that don't know about graphics and what they are looking at.

The culprit primarily is diminishing returns on the hardware where the TRUE limiting factor is the software (and people writing it). As has been said here, games are not targeting a 4090 level of hardware and it's simply relegated to being an accelerant for game engines designed for much lower specs. Now what you do get is much high framerates and in some select cases, some additional graphics features (i.e Path tracing, AI upscaling etc). But the fundamental game assets and content are pretty much identical these days.

Great comparison with low resolution, super compressed jpegs, even better than using Youtube!

 

[Hudo]

2 reasons mainly: Games are developed with console as the baseline, so a game's engine capabilities, general mechanics and level designs aren't going to go above and beyond what the consoles can do. Second: But what you can push on PC are certain limitations like resolutions, shadows, lighting (ray tracing), FPS and maybe some additional post-processing. But you won't see fundamental differences like completely different LODs, levels with much more enemies in them than in the console versions or more elaborate AI or so. Because then you go into the territory of making the PC version its own separate thing.

And only targeting the PC is usually not feasible for AAA games. You wanna maximize profits by maximizing the player count.

 

[Holammer]

Have you [OP] ever played a PC games at 90-120 or even higher framerate with Ultra settings? As Senua said in the first reply, you gotta see it running in person and not a YT clip. Even a seemingly simple game like the WiiU's BotW is absolutely transformed with an emulator. Unlocked framerate, a few hacks like 300% shadows, draw distance, LOD and a reshade injection with RTGI.

 

[MrRibeye]

It takes talented people to produce stunning graphics.

 

[nkarafo]

Because nobody uses PCs as the target platform anymore. There is no Quake, Half-Life, Crysis, etc, that would be made for PC and later on ported on consoles. Now the PC only gets AAA ports.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Because games are designed for console in mind. Most of us play on PC so we don't have to play games like Dragons Dogma 2, Starfield, and FF7 Rebirth at awful resolutions or framerates.

Us PC gamers literally reconstruct awful resolutions just the same.

 

[64bitmodels]

It takes talented people to produce stunning graphics.

This is another thing too. Ignoring the fact that diminishing returns are real it is going to take an insane amount of work and talent to surpass the graphical standards that we have already put upon ourselves this gen.

 

[Elysium44]

...should we tell him?

Tell me what? Do you think resolution is the determining factor in how real a game looks?

 

[Mister Wolf]

Us PC gamers literally reconstruct awful resolutions just the same.

Some might do it. I'm not one of them. Even if they are it's a hell of a lot better than console's reconstruction.

 

[64bitmodels]

Tell me what? Do you think resolution is the determining factor in how real a game looks?

No you idiot. I mean tell you that 4k Blu rays have existed foe a while now.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Some might do it. I'm not one of them. Even if they are it's a hell of a lot better than console's reconstruction.

Bro, even the mighty 4090 is not native 4King every graphical powerhouse full throttle with those super high framerates. Hence for the DLSS. It's a damned stupid waste of resources just to do so.

DLSS, hell of a lot better than FRS, sure, there are some proprietary solutions that are just as fantastic.

 

[Elysium44]

No you idiot. I mean tell you that 4k Blu rays have existed foe a while now.

Reading comprehension must be hard for some of you folks.

1080p blu-ray movies look light years better than any video game. They aren't low quality, blurry, unrealistic looking. Resolution is not the limiting factor. We went to 4K in games when we didn't come close to scratching the surface of what 1080p is capable of.

And while we get 4K games nowadays which are barely better looking than 10 year old games, except at a four times higher pixel count, we get people actually saying 8K is coming soon. It's stupid. These people are stupid.

 

[midnightAI]

Production-value, imo.

To me, AAA titles like TLOU, GOW and Horizon might not always push graphics/performance as much as PC (mainly due hardware limitations), but they are far more polished.

Hence why I never really cared much for PC gaming.

 

[Senua]

Some might do it. I'm not one of them. Even if they are it's a hell of a lot better than console's reconstruction.

If I had a 4090 like you I'd do all I could to play every game at native 4k DLAA. Played Death Stranding recently and the IQ was just so good. Most newer games I have to settle for DLSS quality though.