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Lightgun Games, Ghost Squad & Your GOAT

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I've been dabbling in emulation again, digging up my Dolphinbar and acquiring a Wii Zapper (I already had a Sega Handcannon also but this has a better form factor for hip firing than pistol-like shells like that and includes the nunchuck controls that more involving lightgun games require for things beyond the trigger firing inputs) to enjoy some lightgun games again even without the 1:1 aiming because the Sinden Lightgun is just too damn expensive and other than Gun4IR which is either DYI and/or also expensive there are no real alternatives. There's the EmuVR option for PC VR kits as well and it's amazing and 1:1 true to real lightgun aiming when it works but it just isn't as compatible and performant and easy to use as plain RetroArch (or stand alone emulators) in my experience as it takes over its systems with its own which still need work. Anyway, I've managed to get my Wii stuff to work with Dolphin (duh), TeknoParrot and some of the RetroArch cores for Saturn, PlayStation, Dreamcast and old 2D arcade titles too with varying degrees of success (for some games it's excellent for others the cursor just doesn't line up with where the shots actually end up).

Ghost Squad must be the greatest lightgun game ever made (I guess tied with Operation G.H.O.S.T., its own sequel, but I haven't spent as much time with that one). The formula is just Virtua Cop on steroids, no pedals to take cover or other gimmicks here, you just have to shoot, accurately and fast to survive the expertly paced enemy encounters. Where Virtua Cop faltered, variety and replayability, this game thrives, packing a ton of content in a seemingly pitiful 3 missions (just like previous Virtua Cop games) with some alternate paths, different gun firing modes to switch between (or acquire mid mission with power ups or in other ways) and set pieces which range from QTE style counters/dodges/melee battles to the use of sniper rifles or giant machineguns for certain segments. On top of that there's a progression saving system (that the arcade board also had via cards you purchased, when that was put out of commission they released Ghost Squad Evolution with everything unlocked by default for all players) which has you gain xp by your score to level up your character and unlock a variety of outfits and weapons to use on subsequent playthroughs. The missions also increase in level which makes them harder, does cosmetic changes like a different time of day and can also enable more alternate routes that aren't available initially, with wholly different sections or set pieces to play through. It's so fun even without proper 1:1 lightgun accuracy and the crosshair always on as you have to do when playing with the Wii controller technology (or older flat screen lightguns like AimTrak). It's still far from a cakewalk as well. Some of the unlocked guns have laser sights which means they essentially gave crosshair in the arcade version itself, granted they may instead decrease the score & xp you get awarded as they're all ranked in difficulty of use too, but that still didn't end up making the game too easy and therefor eventually boring or anything, far from it.


So yeah, there are many great lightgun games you can discuss instead, many of them from Sega and others from Namco among others, but this must be in everyone's top 5, right? At least if we exclude games that might have infatuated folks by some licenced IP but weren't actually that great.​
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Of course these are also awesome and my jam. The House of the Dead series with just a few misses since the original up to Scarlet Dawn, the Virtua Cop series (who didn't insert double the coins to dual wield in Virtua Cop 2 am I right), the early Time Crisis games, naturally Point Blank (but only with a real lightgun, otherwise what's the point with challenges like the falling leaf you have to hit with a single bullet, it felt so good to pull that off after tons of practice) and one off oddballs like Ninja Assault or Vampire Night. There were many more fun games but they didn't tend to have the expert design and playability and replayability of the big ones, even if they were by the same developers (for example Sega's Golden Gun compared to The House of the Dead), so they were mostly good as a diversion once in a while, just to play something different and fresher.


The genre almost got a revival in the Wii era but games like the Resident Evil Chronicles and Dead Space Extraction, while they had great production values, didn't quite hit the mark with their shaky cam, unfair situations and grindy aspects for longevity and cinematic style. Still, they're cool too.


And yeah it seems that youtube account has played most lighgun games ever made so it's pretty easy to find good quality footage :D
 
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diffusionx

Gold Member
I used to play lightgun games a lot in the arcade, and had VC on Saturn, but skipped all the PSX games which I regret. Time Crisis and Point Blank were both awesome games. Sega and Namco really should consider bringing back these games on VR.
 
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shaddam

Member
I bought some PS3 lightgun games in the late PS3 days(everything should be discounted 90% on the PSN store after all this years). I played them maybe last summer, and it was FUN. I really should buy an USB lightgun and hook up to my retro emulation optiplex.Or maybe I should get a wii. It was never popular in my country
 

kunonabi

Member
Lucky & Wild and Virtua Cop 3 are my top two. Had a lot fun with Ghost Squad on the Wii but never played it in the arcade.

Dead Space: Extraction is the only good Dead Space game.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Ghost Squad was great. Over the years I’ve really liked Time Crisis, Point Blank, House of the Dead, and Virtua Cop.

Police 911 was probably the coolest arcade shooter for me.

But VR has taken that crown, as it rightfully should. Sega’s sleeping on it big time, because their classic Lightgun games would be awesome in VR.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I used to play lightgun games a lot in the arcade, and had VC on Saturn, but skipped all the PSX games which I regret. Time Crisis and Point Blank were both awesome games. Sega and Namco really should consider bringing back these games on VR.
When I looked into libraries I was surprised that even though Sega was famous for them their systems didn't have so many ports at all when Sony's had several (mostly thanks to Namco and beyond that mostly some lower tier stuff granted, but Sega's just got a couple of their own and lesser stuff).
 
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Time Crisis series for me. That cover mechanic is so good. Especially in the arcade, that pedal had some weight and the screen was massive.

Virtua Cop is up there too, those are great on the Saturn.

I really enjoy Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles as well.

Lightgun games as a whole are fun.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I bought some PS3 lightgun games in the late PS3 days(everything should be discounted 90% on the PSN store after all this years). I played them maybe last summer, and it was FUN. I really should buy an USB lightgun and hook up to my retro emulation optiplex.Or maybe I should get a wii. It was never popular in my country
Technically you just need Wii controllers, a bluetooth adapter that will work for them and a sensor bar to emulate it all with Dolphin. I went with the Mayflash Dolphinbar some years ago which is everything in one and relatively hassle free but it does present some limitations in comparison. Still I've managed to make it work with most of my stuff. Official Wii controllers are very hard to find or go for crazy prices and there's no good list of which third party remotes are actually legit and working in all ways the official stuff are too so you might be better off gunning for a Sinden lightgun. I've seen some folks have made Dolphin patches to emulate the Wii shooters with 1:1 lightgun accuracy and the border the Sinden lightgun needs to work and everything, though of course I haven't tested it or looked into it too much, so that's one potential way to play them.​
I really enjoy Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles as well.
PSA in the video of Darkside Chronicles, the last one I put in that second post, you can see the Wii version's 60fps Dolphin hack in action, it certainly makes it much more playable (I assume it was 60fps on PS3 as well but to me Move was even lesser than the Wii remote for lightgun type gameplay, but I dunno, if RPCS3 emulates this aspect, maybe it feels the same with the mouse controls that a Wii remote takes over? I need to look into that). Both Chronicles games have a working one that doesn't present serious if any issues. There's also a 60fps code for Ghost Squad but that does cause issues in some parts. Its creator has been thorough so you can toggle it on/off with in game controls to avoid those but I doubt I'll bother with it. After I exhaust the game's progression I want to go through in the game (which is cool and addictive) maybe TeknoParrot will have Ghost Squad Evolution with everything unlocked available for those who don't subscribe to their Patreon and I will move to that version eventually. Overkill has a code as well but it's still a glitchy unpolished bitch of a game with stutters and slowdowns, at least on my PC, so maybe that's best on PS3.

From what I've read PCSX2's latest versions have currently kind of deprecated its lightgun emulation as it wasn't a priority so it's not really viable if that hasn't yet changed, but I haven't looked into it in depth yet since there's a ton to play with the stuff I did get working so far. But yeah, Wii has top tier stuff like Ghost Squad, House of the Dead 2 & 3 (and Overkill but I'm not a big fan of that), Gunblade N.Y. and L.A. Machineguns and various lesser stuff on top of those cinematic rail shooters a la Dead Space and the Resident Evil Chronicles games. But it should have had more, stupid Namco.​
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
But VR has taken that crown, as it rightfully should. Sega’s sleeping on it big time, because their classic Lightgun games would be awesome in VR.
Definitely, but it's not just Sega. All big publishers should make amazing VR recreations of their lightgun cabinets wielding the actual cabinet guns, from pistols to shotguns and smgs as in Ghost Squad, like you do the weapons in the VR FPS games. Even Silent Scope games would work well like this. There are various VR games promising lightgun style arcade fun but to me most don't feel right, even the famous stuff like Crisis Brigade 2 (but it's worth a try since many people like it, maybe it's just not for me). Others feel more like random wave shooters than the tightly designed Sega and Namco stuff. But there are a couple gems like Dead Second and to me also Pistol Whip when you use the deadeye modifier which disabled any and all aiming aids the default rhythm focused modes of play have (though I maintain it should have its own leaderboard, not just changing the point rewards like other modifiers in the game do). I wonder if folks will be able to make rail shooter type levels with the official mod kit. Drop Dead Dual Strike also felt pretty decent though it definitely doesn't hold a candle to The House of the Dead (and its sequel isn't a rail shooter).​
 
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GymWolf

Gold Member
I really only played and loved time crisis 1 with the guncon and the arcade of house of dead 2, there weren't many arcades here where i live.

Oh wait, i also played some vr games with guns, i will say that dead and buried 2 and super hot vr are the one that i had more fun with.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I also discovered this Wii potential hidden gem while browsing for ports, it seems well made and is definitely something to try after exhausting the big names. It seems a cut above most shovelware stuff in terms of enemy movement and placement and what not and has a pretty nice visual style.


It definitely seems like they tried to ape Sega stuff with the camera and on rails movement style.​
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Point Blank games on PS1 were great, but their claim "the entire screen is loaded in the system or gun pixel for pixel" is total BS.

You slightly adjust aiming and your gun wont shoot slightly over. It'll go in small chunks. And no matter how good you calibrated the gun the aiming was also a bit wishy washy.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Point Blank games on PS1 were great, but their claim "the entire screen is loaded in the system or gun pixel for pixel" is total BS.

You slightly adjust aiming and your gun wont shoot slightly over. It'll go in small chunks. And no matter how good you calibrated the gun the aiming was also a bit wishy washy.
I noticed that when calibrating the lightgun with the mouse emulation in RetroArch, it just wouldn't go dead center, haha, had to choose if it would be a pixel left/down or right/up etc., lol. It's weird how the same lightguns can have wildly different calibration on the same system too. Like, Virtua Cop 2 Saturn calibrates perfectly but The House of the Dead just won't, it's always a little off the further you aim from the center of the screen. Now I'm having trouble calibrating Naomi stuff, Confidential Mission (and HOTD2 I guess but I play the Wii ports instead) on Dreamcast is perfect but the Naomi games' shooting is wildly different to the mouse cursor (or completely bonkers as in Ninja Assault). I hope folks have figured this out (or patched it if it requires a hack) and I can find a solution because I really wanted to play Maze of Kings and others. If the games had crosshair it'd work out but most of these didn't (not even the home versions when played with a lightgun instead of gamepad) so it's the emulator cores in RetroArch that add them (so you know where you aim with a mouse, which is then taken over by the Wii remote, Sinden lightgun or whatever you have and use) and they can differ like this, it's only post-Wii where crosshair were default in game since they knew the device isn't as accurate as real lightguns. I think I read Naomi is fine in Demul but I'd rather not go outside RetroArch/Flycast (I guess I'll try the latter stand alone some time). RA/emulators need to do a lot of work on this front still, for example allowing custom crosshair (or improving theirs), the current are so tiny and hard to see, clearly only meant for mouse at best rather than playing from further away with any sort of pointing device. TeknoParrot's are way way better, much like Wii games.
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
I tried playing Darkside Chronicles recently but shit is impossible to play on a controller and I can't be bothered to scrounge the internet for a couple of Move controllers to play it. A bit of a shame because I was interested in playing through that Leon/Krauser story after finishing RE4 remake recently. Pretty dope that Capcom actually acknowledged this game within remake's continuity.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Oh sweet, just figured out how to fix the Naomi stuff, you need to enter its bios type menus for gun calibration and then the aiming follows your mouse cursor (and thus the device you use whether Sinden lighgun or Wii remote or whatever) almost 1:1, a tiny bit off which doesn't matter only. Still no good crosshair in the Flycast emulator (core or stand alone) however, it's a very thin cross which isn't easy to see in the heat of the action so this works if you have an accurate lightgun like Sinden and just turn them off altogether but for Wii type devices it's still not ideal. But it works as it should.
 
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nush

Member
Operation Wolf was the daddy, but my favs were the OG Virtua Cop and then House of the Dead. Mad Dog McRee was fun, but a one and done thing. Outlier vote goes to Namcos Starblade.

I did get my first real industry job due to Time Crisis though, gold star for that game.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Operation Wolf was the daddy, but my favs were the OG Virtua Cop and then House of the Dead. Mad Dog McRee was fun, but a one and done thing. Outlier vote goes to Namcos Starblade.

I did get my first real industry job due to Time Crisis though, gold star for that game.
Yeah, there are good old 2D lightgun games but not the known stuff like Lethal Enforcers or the Mad Dog games which are as you say quite naff after all is said and done. Stuff like Dragon Gun (which looks so cool but I can't get the hang of it, I feel like I should be always shooting as in other rapid fire games but that does pitiful damage, you have to stop and wait to charge up but that seems too slow for the game's speed with how many enemies and projectiles it throws at you, Idk), Zombie Raid and the unique thanks to free turning and movement Gunbuster (basically Wii FPS controls 14 years early) are really quite well made. The Steel Gunner games are kinda like super scaler Gunblade NY/L.A. Machineguns. I was never into licenced stuff like Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park, they seemed tuned to coin munch even more than usual, but Alien 3 may be the best and can be 1cced solo.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Man, Ninja Assault is really hard. Limited bullets for your ninja pistol yet most enemy types take multiple hits and you have the usual stuff where they eventually throw all kinds of projeciles or themselves at you so you need to make every shot count and reload really fast. Feels pretty tight though.


It seems the enemy patterns in the beginning are the same for 2 players as they are for 1 (actually I'm not sure if this is widespread for the genre, I never gave it much thought since most seemed either fair or were coin munchers anyway) so I guess it makes sense that it feels so very hard to solo.​
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Regarding The House of the Dead: Overkill, it's included in The Typing of the Dead: Overkill on Steam and after some fiddling to remap some control inputs it works on my setup. I suppose that's the best way to play the game for now, though it's still a pretty barebones port and pretty meh game.
 
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dan76

Member
Just a mini bump of this thread. Don't know how I missed it as I'm a light gun nut. The 2015 Jurassic Park arcade game is is now playable, and it's pretty damn good. A lot of these modern light gun games are cheap as hell with unavoidable deaths, but this one is actually well balanced. I've played a few modern shooters recently, and they've been a bit disappointing in terms of balance. Tomb Raider is a joke difficulty wise.

I'd rate JP, Scarlet Dawn and Lost Land Adventure as being the best if the most recent bunch. A lot of Sega games are fantastic though, especially Golden Gun and Operation Ghost. I generally play these with a Wiimote and Dolphin bar. I've wired in the Wiimote to an old PS2 Desert Eagle gun with recoil and bolted it to the bottom. It looks like ass but is brilliant to play.
 

Magic Carpet

Gold Member
The only lightgun I currently have is a Dreamcast lightgun I found at a garage sale.
I would like to find the original Sega Master system gun modled after the Zillion gun. An old Anime.
I would pay treefiddy for one. I have the original Zillion cart and a Genesis with the adapter to play it.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
More lightguns have been made by RetroShooter recently. It's all pretty damn pricy (people called it the budget option, lol?) but I guess that's everything. If I had the money I'd probably get both of these, Ghost Squad and whatever other game in the series works on PC now would rock with an SMG.


Props3D has just about launched theirs as well, apparently they got tons of orders in by a mistake while still working on the shop and everything else and people discovered it was functional online and now it's currently closed and moving to a different backend or whatever, we'll see what they have.

Of course, again, you could just a get something like the Oculus Quest 3S and fiddle with getting emulated games working with stuff like EmuVR instead, a much more versatile device for things beyond emulation for similar pricing.​
 
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