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Lilly Wachowski confirms 'Matrix' series is a transgender allegory

TyphoonStruggle

TyphoonStruggle

Member
Mohonky said:
Have a look at the shit Buck Angel and Contrapoints got into....jesus. Watched a video from a guy that also denounced neo-pronouns because of the hostility from others.

Anyway, I'm not buying this being an allegory for trans. You mean she only just reveals it now, 20 yrs later from nowhere? Not buying it, I can see the reasoning but it's little more than confirmation bias.
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Me thinks the wachowskis trynna sell their new old movie to a new younger audience. The new old matrix movie gonna be lit, vibin, and woke af fam

Grifters gonna grift... or something... whatever
 
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TGO

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
giphy.gif

Damnit Beaten again!!
No seriously I hope they don't fuck up the Matrix more then they did originally
 
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O-N-E

O-N-E

Member
Tschumi said:
If you want to make it a metaphor for white man struggling against the Jews go ahead and make it thus. I sure as hell won't be paying attention to you ^_^
Click to expand...

What in the world? Who made that argument in the thread? Did I miss a post?

Or are you making shit up?
 
nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
Well, it's not hard to retroactively push new messages using old movies. With a little bit of mental gymnastic you could push whatever agenda you want from any movie that exists.
 
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S

Saruhashi

Banned
SuperGooey said:
Question to everyone freaking out, thinking the Wachowski's all of a sudden went "woke":

Have you seen Bound?
Click to expand...

Why does it need to be framed as "freaking out"?

The Matrix was obviously had a major "anti-authority" and "break the mould of society" angle to it, I don't think anyone would argue with that?

It seems like a valid discussion point but anyone who isn't just going to say "yes the movie was definitely and obviously a transgender allegory" is going to be framed as "freaking out" so what's the point?

At the end of the day they are saying "oh this one minor character who was killed off halfway into movie one of three was meant to be a dude in real life and a chick in the Matrix but society couldn't handle it".

I think it's fair to say that the movie itself is saying very little about trans experiences.
Hell, even saying things like "so many trans people feel like the movie spoke to them" is a bit daft because the movie was MASSIVELY popular back when it came out and has been popular ever since.

Of course most hilarious of all is that certain groups who adopted the "red pill" terminology have clearly been profoundly influenced by the Matrix also.
So it must be a pretty shit allegory if it's message blatantly inspired MRA groups and the like but you have to sit people down and explain why it is actually all about trans people.

Oh and anyone who disagrees is "freaking out" of course.
 
#Phonepunk#

#Phonepunk#

Banned
It’s always been rumored they ripped the Matrix off from a black author so them using white Male trans privilege to further their clout seems like a natural next step for the woke culture vultures of the world
 
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Tschumi

Tschumi

Member
O-N-E said:
So you made shit up?...Why?
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Hold your horses, champ. I wasn't aware that i was under an obligation to base every post on a direct quote by someone else.

If you can look at my post, and extract a personal insult and challenge from a speculative suggestion of what kind of allegory people who are anti-LGBT (or whether the tag is, I'm not very savvy to these politics) might wish to interpret the film as being, i can't satisfy your rage. If you have such a problem with my word choice you might get more satisfaction if you go scream in a pillow.

You sure seem defensive and triggered by my words. Sorry, brah~ it's weird to see an avatar associated with my favourite show and it's obviously very kind and positive director spitting such fire at me >.<
 
O-N-E

O-N-E

Member
Tschumi said:
Hold your horses, champ. I wasn't aware that i was under an obligation to base every post on a direct quote by someone else.

If you can look at my post, and extract a personal insult and challenge from a speculative suggestion of what kind of allegory people who are anti-LGBT (or whether the tag is, I'm not very savvy to these politics) might wish to interpret the film as being, i can't satisfy your rage. If you have such a problem with my word choice you might get more satisfaction if you go scream in a pillow.

You sure seem defensive and triggered by my words. Sorry, brah~ it's weird to see an avatar associated with my favourite show and it's obviously very kind and positive director spitting such fire at me >.<
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First you mentioned Jews now you're mentioning LGBT instead (amidst a bullshit word salade)... OK, so you made something up and are full of shit. Wonderful.

I feel the same way about your AV. A real crying shame.
 
Tschumi

Tschumi

Member
O-N-E said:
I feel the same way about your AV. A real crying shame.
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If you're a good person in real life I'd be happy to change my opinion, but you've only ever shown me petulant aggression here. And I'm too old to fall into the trap of trying to satisfy an anonymous bully once he's trying to get his teeth in me. I'm no otaku, i don't claim to be a genius about any subject you might own, but if you think you've behaved in a way that scans with the general message of positivity and inclusion in all Yuasa's works, I'm not seeing it here.

I wrote a an op of support for Wachowski, i put in a line speculating on an interpretation some non-specified wanker might prefer to adopt, said i wouldn't care what they thought. You thought i was, i dunno, pissing in your dinner. I can't help you.
 
O-N-E

O-N-E

Member
Tschumi said:
positivity and inclusion in all Yuasa's works, I'm not seeing it here.
Click to expand...

Putting aside the other bullshit, you think all of his works are about positivity and inclusion? You're really that dunce that just pulls statements out of his ass and asserts they're true. Woah freakin' boy.
 
Tschumi

Tschumi

Member
O-N-E said:
Putting aside the other bullshit, you think all of his works are about positivity and inclusion? You're really that dunce that just pulls statements out of his ass and asserts they're true. Woah freakin' boy.
Click to expand...
message me those of his works which aren't
 
Tschumi

Tschumi

Member
O-N-E said:
"positivity and inclusion"

d1PhXDu.gif


Tell me... how does Devilman Crybaby end?

You message me which ones are about inclusion.
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I haven't seen it, plot synopses suggest it's pretty awesome... I think you're conflating artistic violence and dark metaphor - which I think it appropriate for this day and age - with celebrating darkness. I mean, I guess it's pretty fun for you to think the guy made this anime because he wanted to say "fuck Eizouken I'm gonna get real", but what appears to be an ending where evil fails and it all gets wiped away hardly strikes me as celebrating negativity and intolerance. The whole thing seems to be a warning against those emotions, as far as I can figure.

I'll go watch it~ I said already I'm not a 'otaku' or a 'weeb', and I don't claim to be more of a genius about your pet subject, so I'm not surprised you had some ace up your sleeve... But this ace hardly seems definitive.

I reckon I can see your 'Devilman Crybaby' and raise you a Kaiba, or whatever~ I assume you've been a fan of his since before 2018?

EDIT: these are his interpretations of mangas, right? I wonder how he could screw up his hardcore face and let his inner vicious monster down by making the all-female-lead Eizouken, Ping Pong, tatami galaxy, et al~
 
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O-N-E

O-N-E

Member
Tschumi said:
I haven't seen it, plot synopses suggest it's pretty awesome... I think you're conflating artistic violence and dark metaphor - which I think it appropriate for this day and age - with celebrating darkness. I mean, I guess it's pretty fun for you to think the guy made this anime because he wanted to say "fuck Eizouken I'm gonna get real", but what appears to be an ending where evil fails and it all gets wiped away hardly strikes me as celebrating negativity and intolerance. The whole thing seems to be a warning against those emotions, as far as I can figure.

I'll go watch it~ I said already I'm not a 'otaku' or a 'weeb', and I don't claim to be more of a genius about your pet subject, so I'm not surprised you had some ace up your sleeve... But this ace hardly seems definitive.

I reckon I can see your 'Devilman Crybaby' and raise you a Kaiba, or whatever~ I assume you've been a fan of his since before 2018?

EDIT: these are his interpretations of mangas, right? I wonder how he could screw up his hardcore face and let his inner vicious monster down by making the all-female-lead Eizouken, Ping Pong, tatami galaxy, et al~
Click to expand...

You said all his works are about inclusion.

How? Actually explain how those themes are in his works.

I'm not saying he's against inclusion, but you made a definitive statement that ALL OF HIS WORKS are about INCLUSION.

You don't see how that gives a rather strong waft of bullshit?

The thing is, you're wrong on this, but it's a diversion from the fact that you made up some scenario about posters in this thread without any particular post to back it up. It's strange behaviour. If that doesn't register in your mind then whatever. C'est la vie. Move along.
 
Tschumi

Tschumi

Member
O-N-E said:
You said all his works are about inclusion.

How? Actually explain how those themes are in his works.

I'm not saying he's against inclusion, but you made a definitive statement that ALL OF HIS WORKS are about INCLUSION.

You don't see how that gives a rather strong waft of bullshit?

The thing is, you're wrong on this, but it's a diversion from the fact that you made up some scenario about posters in this thread without any particular post to back it up. It's strange behaviour. If that doesn't register in your mind then whatever. C'est la vie. Move along.
Click to expand...
You know what, man? You have a real problem with cherry picking single words and jumping on them. You're pedantic as hell! Is that what they call strawmanning? I don't know, that could be wrong, I care not. You've gone from challenging me on this Crybaby thing to picking up another string. When will you end? Short answer: never.

I am pretty confident that Yuasa is trying to gift people with a) the joy of great, creative anime and b) inspiration and uplift. I've never seen him take a fucking stand against people who are different, so yeah I reckon I can say his anime are all inclusive.

The thing is, you're on this forum more or less all day, every day, and you've gotten to be so good at picking on people that you don't realize that you're being a total wanker about it, and you don't realize that you've gone beyond calling people out on slip ups and ventured into pointless anonymous bully territory.

I see you on that Meta GAF thread, you're quick with your memes and smart as a whip, comfortable on this forum, so your forum foo is much stronger than mine. Does that mean I'm supposed to feel schooled by a guy who is elitist about a show/director he obviously doesn't even relate to? Maybe in real life you have some emotional reason to associate with tatami galaxy, but as far as i can tell on this forum you belong with beevis and butthead.

A final word on my OP on this thread. Nobody else thought I should be taken in front of a firing squad, nobody else has been cut to the marrow by my thoughtless, throwaway speculative point making. I'm reasonably confident that you've been triggered and have put on some forum vigilante cloak and decided that this poor nobody needs to be taken down. Maybe I should edit my post to say "maybe you can think this is the struggle of O-N-E against the hordes of naive Noobs", would that suit your worldview better?

I'll move along too. And I'll show my kids (edit: when their of the right age) these anime in the fair knowledge that I'm giving them access to a fundamentally healthy and positive - and inclusive - world view.
 
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S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Guys guys

GUYS!

That show is a 6/10 only if you are some lonely college student at best.
 
Mistake

Mistake

Member
This is what happens when you get lost in the matrix

1FoosYy.png


Don't browse the dark web folks
 
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DunDunDunpachi

DunDunDunpachi

Banned
If you want to watch the prequel duology to the Matrix, I recommend the following movies starring Keanu Reeves:

Little Buddha (1993)
Johnny Mmemonic (1995)

You'll laugh and realize that The Matrix was just the two mashed together.
 
IfuckinghateReddit

IfuckinghateReddit

Banned
Stilton Disco said:
Dumbledore makes perfect sense in hindsight being gay, and is hinted at several times if you reread the books. The guys love of knitting alone should have tipped people off.
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Are you suggesting that knitting makes you gay?

Also is this their new excuse for hiding the fact that the movie was written to rip off Ghost in the Shell?
 
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SuperGooey

SuperGooey

Member
Saruhashi said:
Why does it need to be framed as "freaking out"?

The Matrix was obviously had a major "anti-authority" and "break the mould of society" angle to it, I don't think anyone would argue with that?

It seems like a valid discussion point but anyone who isn't just going to say "yes the movie was definitely and obviously a transgender allegory" is going to be framed as "freaking out" so what's the point?

At the end of the day they are saying "oh this one minor character who was killed off halfway into movie one of three was meant to be a dude in real life and a chick in the Matrix but society couldn't handle it".

I think it's fair to say that the movie itself is saying very little about trans experiences.
Hell, even saying things like "so many trans people feel like the movie spoke to them" is a bit daft because the movie was MASSIVELY popular back when it came out and has been popular ever since.

Of course most hilarious of all is that certain groups who adopted the "red pill" terminology have clearly been profoundly influenced by the Matrix also.
So it must be a pretty shit allegory if it's message blatantly inspired MRA groups and the like but you have to sit people down and explain why it is actually all about trans people.

Oh and anyone who disagrees is "freaking out" of course.
Click to expand...
I think you taking too much from my use of the phrase "freaking out." I'm mostly responding to the more obnoxious posts, which to be fair most people in the thread are fine.

What you're saying totally makes sense to me, and I agree. Switch was a minor character, and watching the Matrix a million times, I've never gotten the impression that it was an allegory for being trans. This is likely a retroactive change, but it is also interesting that the Wachowskis were very likely going through a lot mentally relating to coming out as trans at the time of filming.

At the end of the day, Lily's statement doesn't change anything for me, but in the mean time, it is fun to poke fun at those who are all upset about Matrix becoming "woke" or feel the need to insult the appearance of Lily. Again, most people are being reasonable.
 
Kamina

Kamina

Golden Boy
Fishing for woke sales perhaps?
I got bad news for you, the woke crowd has no time for watching movies when they have to take care of more important things, like starring witchhunts on twitter.
 
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Redlancet

Redlancet

Banned
whats the ratio for transgender people on the world? 0.5? why it seems there is transgenders everywhere? look at era,any gaming website,etc to be honest i dont have anything agaisnt trans people,but fuck me if they are overepresented on the news
 
brap

brap

Banned
Redlancet said:
whats the ratio for transgender people on the world? 0.5? why it seems there is transgenders everywhere? look at era,any gaming website,etc to be honest i dont have anything agaisnt trans people,but fuck me if they are overepresented on the news
Click to expand...
yeah i wonder why all the ugly ass lonely horny guys are turning into women :pie_thinking:
 
HaveButOneLife

HaveButOneLife

Banned
The left continues to brainwash and lie, what a surprise. If you want to do this nonsense, write a book or direct a documentary, don't try to ruin movies people have loved for years for your own propagandic buffoonery.
 
Thabass

Thabass

Member
There was definitely elements of the "residual self image" and being trans. Switch is often a character that exemplifies this. So, in a way, I can see this as being an allegory for trans. I just don't think it was the main point of the film.

But what the fuck do I know?
 
Yoboman

Yoboman

Member
You've got to love the irony that after years of right wing groups using "the red pill" it turns out the red pill means to become trans
 
SirTerry-T

SirTerry-T

Member
Next they're going to tell me The Great Escape is an allegorical tale of repressed homosexuality trying to break out of the closet.
 
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