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[schuelma]

What they will most likely do if they desperately need a boost is start packing in Wii Sports, and maybe Wii Music.

Why would they bundle a game that is 2.5 years old and no longer appearing in the top 30 or bundle the one clear Wii branded failure? If they did do a bundle, MH 3 and WSR are the obvious choices.

 

[Rolf NB]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353604&highlight=classic

Weird. Thanks.

 

[Haunted]

It's clear that the success of the PSP titles has strengthened the MH brand, but still - the handheld version were much, much more successful than the console versions ever were.

I don't think it'll be able to shift units in the same way as the last handheld versions did.


edit: On a related note, what's the best-selling PS3 game's LTD in Japan so far? Does MH3 have a shot at outselling it and validate Capcom's decision to switch platforms in mid-development?

 

[Somnid]

Why would they bundle a game that is 2.5 years old and no longer appearing in the top 30 or bundle the one clear Wii branded failure? If they did do a bundle, MH 3 and WSR are the obvious choices.

Because it increases the perceived value to new customers at no cost. If you expect Monster Hunter to sell then it's better to sell them separately instead of losing a little bit on the bundled sale. Also, it fits Wii's image which is very carefully constructed. 2.5 years later and people are still making the mistake that Wii works like any other console.

 

[schuelma]

edit: On a related note, what's the best-selling PS3 game's LTD in Japan so far? Does MH3 have a shot at outselling it and validate Capcom's decision to switch platforms in mid-development?

I believe its MGS4 at about 700K (I actually think Taiko Wii has a chance to beat that btw).

 

[schuelma]

Because it increases the precieved value to new customers at no cost. If you expect Monster Hunter to sell then it's better to sell them seperately instead of losing a little bit on the bundled sale. Also, it fits Wii's image which is very carefully constructed. 2.5 years later and people are still making the mistake that Wii works like any other console.

The whole point right now for Nintendo is to drive hardware. Wii Music isn't going to drive hardware. I don't think Wii Sports will either. WSR could drive the casual market, MH 3 could start to drive the core market.

 

[donny2112]

I agree in that it should do at least a million. I can't see it hit two million though.

It's this kind of stuff that I can't wrap my head around. We're talking about the Wii where the best selling third-party game until a few weeks ago was released in Summer 2007 and sold < 500K. We're talking about a game that, on consoles, has only ever peaked out at ~500K. "What about the portable series?" May I point you in the direction of Animal Crossing and Pokemon? Mario Kart is definitely a bucker of that trend, though, with the Wii version selling 2/3rds the amount of the DS version (and almost 3x the previous console version) so far.

You can try to label it setting up low expectations to be able to say "Wow," but I've had the same expectations for well over a year, i.e. back when the Wii didn't desperately need a "Wow."

Edit:
One particularly major difference between Monster Hunter Wii and pretty much every other third-party game released on the system seems to be the advertising push from the publisher. Capcom seems to be going pretty much all out to push these games on the Wii. Contrast that with, for example, Fragile where Namco-Bandai decided that spending pretty much any money on advertising would be too much. Can anyone in Japan compare the Monster Hunter G advertising with the advertising for a big Nintendo release?

 

[Spiegel]

It's this kind of stuff that I can't wrap my head around. We're talking about the Wii where the best selling third-party game until a few weeks ago was released in Summer 2007 and sold < 500K. We're talking about a game that, on consoles, has only ever peaked out at ~500K. "What about the portable series?" May I point you in the direction of Animal Crossing and Pokemon? Mario Kart is definitely a bucker of that trend, though, with the Wii version selling 2/3rds the amount of the DS version (and almost 3x the previous console version) so far.

You can label it trying to setup low expectations to be able to say "Wow," but I've had the same expectations for well over a year, i.e. back when the Wii didn't desperately need a "Wow."

Pokemon? There are no mainline Pokemon games on console
Animal Crossing? It sold too much on wii. It's a lame, lazy job and those sales should talk about the strength of the franchise

It's pretty easy to understand.

In early 2006 there were ~600k of people who cared about the Monster Hunter franchise
In 2009 there are 3 million+ of people who care about the Monster Hunter franchise

Monster Hunter is a phenomenon in Japan. There are magazines, events, training camps and Capcom is going to market the game like crazy.

MH3 is the next game in the franchise and is going to benefit from all of these things. The Monster Hunter games on ps2 didn't have any of that.

 

[BishopLamont]

Nice first day sales of MHG, let's see how much it pushes hardware.

This MH3 debate is pretty funny, it's mainly the Anti-Nintendo that are expecting it to push alot of units and hardware, while the Pro-Nintendo side (me included) don't expect it break any records. Seeing those PS3 numbers, I think WSR will do more for the Wii then MH3 will.

 

[swerve]

Well they cannot help it if you have not noticed the hardware sales as of late

Iwata has said twice in the last month that the situation was dier and needed some help. I do not think they will bank on WSR to miraculously get them back to old hardware levels so a bundle option would be helpful for the biggest 3rd party IP they have released to date.

I agree they won't bank on just WSR, but I think they have other, more guaranteed effective means which they can use. What with them being one of the most popular and successful software developers and all. I think what Iwata needs to do if he wants the old sales volumes back, is release the same amount of decent software as when he had those sales volumes. And maybe shout about them a bit more.

Their latest Japanese ads for the 'Wii no ma' channel are so humble and polite, it's a pretty remarkable strategy. The tone is pretty much 'we're still trying new shit out here, and it'll be a bit weird at first, but it'd be nice if you give it a go. Thanks'.

With a picture of a Wii next to a TV as if to remind eight million people that they have one.

 

[schuelma]

Pokemon? There are no mainline Pokemon games in consoles
Animal Crossing? It sold too much on wii. It's a lame, lazy job and those sales should talk about the strength of the franchise

It's pretty easy to understand.

In early 2006 there were ~600k of people who cared about the Monster Hunter franchise
In 2009 there are 3 million+ of people who care about the Monster Hunter franchise

Monster Hunter is a phenomenon in Japan. There are magazines, events, training camps and Capcom is going to market the game like crazy.

MH3 is the next game in the franchise and is going to benefit from all of these things. The Monster Hunter games on ps2 didn't have any of this.

Mostly agree. I do think you have to account for the inherent differences between the PSP and console versions, which is why I'm not predicting 3 million or anything..but I think 750K-1M is a very reasonable and possibly conservative estimate.

 

[Somnid]

The whole point right now for Nintendo is to drive hardware. Wii Music isn't going to drive hardware. I don't think Wii Sports will either. WSR could drive the casual market, MH 3 could start to drive the core market.

I don't think the game playing populace needs any enticement. The Wii has 2 main competitiors: the PSP and the PS2. Basically they just need to tap those audiences. Monster Hunter by default snags the PSP audience and they just need to wait out the people still playing PS2. The PS3 is rather irrelevant as its market is different and it cannot function as an alternative to the Wii. It's like comparing the PS2 of last gen to the Gamecube, because it sells it gets more games and gamers are forced to own it to continue playing the majority of their favorite franchises. But driving more casuals should always be their priority as they outnumber the hardcore several times over.

 

[markatisu]

One particularly major difference between Monster Hunter Wii and pretty much every other third-party game released on the system seems to be the advertising push from the publisher. Capcom seems to be going pretty much all out to push these games on the Wii. Contrast that with, for example, Fragile where Namco-Bandai decided that spending pretty much any money on advertising would be too much. Can anyone in Japan compare the Monster Hunter G advertising with the advertising for a big Nintendo release?

I think this point needs to be emphasized, Tsujimoto and Fujioka have said in past interviews that Capcom has put extreme pressure on them to deliver sales with this game and push it just has hard as the PSP versions.

 

[donny2112]

Pokemon? There are no mainline Pokemon games in consoles

Mainline, no, but there have been Pokemon RPGs on the console that didn't sell too great.

Animal Crossing? It sold too much on wii. It's a lame, lazy job and those sales should talk about the strength of the franchise

I thought Animal Crossing DS was a lazy port job, so Animal Crossing Wii is even more lazy, definitely.

There aren't many games that have sold > 1 million on a handheld that have sold really well on the console to do comparisons with, so we end up with less than stellar comparisons. An addition to Mario Kart is Mario Party. However in that case, it was the DS version that came later.

There are magazines, events, training camps and Capcom is going to market the game like crazy.

Marketing is one particularly major area where it seems like Monster Hunter will be miles and miles ahead of every other third-party release on the system, so that does help the case to say that comparing it to other third-party releases on the Wii isn't too meaningful.

The Monster Hunter games on ps2 didn't have any of this.

The PS2 Monster Hunter games didn't have big ad campaigns when they were released?

 

[BishopLamont]

I don't think the game playing populace needs any enticement. The Wii has 2 main competitiors: the PSP and the PS2. Basically they just need to tap those audiences. Monster Hunter by default snags the PSP audience and they just need to wait out the people still playing PS2. The PS3 is rather irrelevant as its market is different and it cannot function as an alternative to the Wii. It's like comparing the PS2 of last gen to the Gamecube, because it sells it gets more games and gamers are forced to own it to continue playing the majority of their favorite franchises. But driving more casuals should always be their priority as they outnumber the hardcore several times over.

Pretty much, the biggest selling games for the Wii are for the casuals. Traditional core Nintendo titles aren't really doing bigger numbers then they use to, with the exception of Mario Kart, but that's a game that the casual recognise quite easily, no matter what console its on. Pretty fun times all things considered, the HD twins have literally blown it's load now in terms of software. Will third parties finally start giving the Wii real support? I know it's an old and tired line, but I think this is the year where we see how the rest of the generation in Japan plays out, once everyone has shown all their cards. The Wii literally at this point only needs 1 or 2 more "Wii Fits" megahits and this generation is sealed. The only first party you can really count on to deliver that is Nintendo.

 

[Spiegel]

Mainline, no, but there have been Pokemon RPGs on the console that didn't sell too great.

Spinoffs selling badly compared to mainline games is nothing new. This has nothing to do with handhelds vs consoles

I thought Animal Crossing DS was a lazy port job, so Animal Crossing Wii is even more lazy, definitely.

There aren't many games that have sold > 1 million on a handheld that have sold really well on the console to do comparisons with, so we end up with less than stellar comparisons. An addition to Mario Kart is Mario Party. However in that case, it was the DS version that came later.

Also, Animal Crossing looks like a good ds game and had online for the first time in the franchise iirc

The PS2 Monster Hunter games didn't have big ad campaigns when they were released?

I meant they didn't have the benefits from being the next mainline game on a 3 million+ seller franchise

 

[Link]

Traditional core Nintendo titles aren't really doing bigger numbers then they use to, with the exception of Mario Kart, but that's a game that the casual recognise quite easily, no matter what console its on.

That's... pretty much wrong.

 

[ccbfan]

The PS2 Monster Hunter games didn't have big ad campaigns when they were released?

I don't think they did.

Nobody ever mentioned much about MH until it exploded on the PSP.

I remember when MHP was showing legs on the charts people were like "WTF is this? Pokemon clone for the PSP? and "Just some port of some PS2 game".

MH didn't really become this OMG WTF its as big as FF now franchise until MHP2.

 

[cvxfreak]

It would be interesting if Nintendo broke out of its comfort zone and did a Monster Hunter 3 bundle pack. It would sell out instantly, boost hardware sales notably, and help bring MH fans who may be on the fence waiting for a PSP version of tri.

It'd be nice if they made a Darkside Chronicles bundle as well, but who am I kidding.

 

[Stumpokapow]

mgs4 is getting a "the best" reprint on june 18th, 3990yen

 

[cvxfreak]

mgs4 is getting a "the best" reprint on june 18th, 3990yen

Will sell at least 50K, maybe even 100K.

 

[schuelma]

It would be interesting if Nintendo broke out of its comfort zone and did a Monster Hunter 3 bundle pack. It would sell out instantly, boost hardware sales notably, and help bring MH fans who may be on the fence waiting for a PSP version of tri.
.

I think its relatively likely. Nintendo has been pushing MH Tri in their Fall conference for two years now. They already let Capcom do a special CC bundle for MH G. It seems clear to me Nintendo thinks MH 3 is a key key title in trying to get a new kind of audience.

 

[onipex]

Nintendo isn't bundling anything if they can help it. Also their own properties are more popular than Monster Hunter anyways.

I thought bundles were seen as a sign of weakness in Japan.


I don't understand why some people are expecting MH3 to sell 1m.I think Capcom should only go by how well it sold on the PS2 and expect a slight increase. Handheld games have a different appeal that console games cannot match.

Nintendo has never really been able to repeat their handheld success on consoles. The Wii may be as close has they have got so far.

Pretty much, the biggest selling games for the Wii are for the casuals. Traditional core Nintendo titles aren't really doing bigger numbers then they use to, with the exception of Mario Kart, but that's a game that the casual recognise quite easily, no matter what console its on. Pretty fun times all things considered, the HD twins have literally blown it's load now in terms of software. Will third parties finally start giving the Wii real support? I know it's an old and tired line, but I think this is the year where we see how the rest of the generation in Japan plays out, once everyone has shown all their cards. The Wii literally at this point only needs 1 or 2 more "Wii Fits" megahits and this generation is sealed. The only first party you can really count on to deliver that is Nintendo.

I thought Nintendo's core games have sold better on the Wii and DS. Games that have a wider appeal should sell better and Wii Fit goes beyond being a video game to some. I guess Wii Fit Gym ( Wii Fit with resistance bands and door attachment) should really appeal to more people. Don't forget about Wii Music Plus either( Wii Music with Motion +, all the songs from Brawl, OOT, TP, Galaxy, and all classic Nintendo tunes can be downloaded).

 

[donny2112]

mgs4 is getting a "the best" reprint on june 18th, 3990yen

Leaves room for another release at 2000 yen down the road.

It'd be nice if they made a Darkside Chronicles bundle as well, but who am I kidding.

Spoiler

Maybe an RE5 bundle? Nah, probably not then, either.

Serious question: If RE5 was remade to use RE4 controls, ignoring the graphical difference, how would you rate the core game between RE4 and RE5?

I guess Wii Fit Gym ( Wii Fit with resistance bands and door attachment) should really appeal to more people. Don't forget about Wii Music Plus either( Wii Music with Motion +, all the songs from Brawl, OOT, TP, Galaxy, and all classic Nintendo tunes can be downloaded).

Huh?

 

[AranhaHunter]

Is my 500K LTD for MHG, 1.5 mil LTD for MH3 still not realistic?

20K for Killzone 2....didn't Resistance and Resistance 2 sell over 100k? I'm pretty sure COD4 PS3 and Halo 3 did, what did Gears do?

 

[Sage00]

Is my 500K LTD for MHG, 1.5 mil LTD for MH3 still not realistic?

20K for Killzone 2....didn't Resistance and Resistance 2 sell over 100k? I'm pretty sure COD4 PS3 and Halo 3 did, what did Gears do?

2 very different trends that start off so similarly.

I'd predict KZ2 to follow R2's rather than CoD4's. CoD4's multiplayer aspect is so well known it kept it selling, while KZ2 doesn't seem like it has legs in any region.

 

[BishopLamont]

That's... pretty much wrong.

What part?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

How many bundles has Nintendo ever done with third party games?

I feel like the number is low.

 

[Link]

What part?

Most of Nintendo's franchises saw upticks in sales on the Wii compared to their GC counterparts.

 

[markatisu]

How many bundles has Nintendo ever done with third party games?

I feel like the number is low.

There were quite a few on Gamecube, 2 come to mind Gundam, Tales of Symphonia

There were GC bundles in EU for RE4, and MGS

As far as Wii goes we have had the gun shell bundled with RE:UC, Ghost Squad, MoHH2, and HoTD 2/3 Returns, and the classic controller bundled with MHG

 

[wrowa]

How many bundles has Nintendo ever done with third party games?

I feel like the number is low.

There was a N64 bundle with that Star Wars Episode 1 racing game.

 

[Meesh]

I think its relatively likely. Nintendo has been pushing MH Tri in their Fall conference for two years now. They already let Capcom do a special CC bundle for MH G. It seems clear to me Nintendo thinks MH 3 is a key key title in trying to get a new kind of audience.

Oh yeah! You know, I'd almost buy a MH3 limited edition Wii bundle...I'd feel guilty, but it'd be sweet. MH3 game bundle with controller, art book, ost...I could do that too. I hope it happens.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

edit: On a related note, what's the best-selling PS3 game's LTD in Japan so far? Does MH3 have a shot at outselling it and validate Capcom's decision to switch platforms in mid-development?

Here are the PS3 top 3. I'd go with 5, but my latest numbers for #4 and #5 are nearly a year out of date and probably not representative of where they'll be once the Famitsu Top 500 is factored in.

That's... pretty much wrong.

I'm sure there are examples to be had for whichever way one wants to look at it. We've got series like 3D Mario which do in between their GCN and N64 counterparts. Games like Zelda which have done worse. Games like Smash Bros. which have done better. Games like Mario Kart which have done much better, but aren't yet at historical franchise highs.

There were quite a few on Gamecube, 2 come to mind Gundam, Tales of Symphonia

Resident Evil (Remake I think?) and FFCC as well.

 

[d+pad]

I'm actually surprised Nintendo has never released a Wii + Wii Fit bundle in any region, to tell you the truth. I guess it would be a bit pricey, but still...

Anyway, I think that if NOJ is smart, they'll release a Wii Sports Resort bundle and if they're *really* smart they'll release a MH3 bundle, too. Actually, I can see the MH3 bundle doing even better than the WSR one.

A bit of an aside: Does Punch Out!! have a release date in Japan yet? How do people expect it to do? How did past versions (FC and SFC) do? I think the game will do quite well in the US, but I have a feeling it's less known in Japan.

 

[markatisu]

Resident Evil (Remake I think?) and FFCC as well.

I thought there was one for RE but I could only find the info for the RE4 EU one

But Nintendo has bundled the DS with third party games, so why are people acting like the Wii cannot and will not be bundled. Just because it has not, there is no precedent that Nintendo will not as they did it quite a bit on the Gamecube which sold worse and the DS as well as the GBA before it and sold good not needing it.

I am not saying Nintendo should bundle every damn thing, but for a IP as big as MH which is trying to get a home on consoles to expand its not illogical to want a bundle.

 

[test_account]

How many bundles has Nintendo ever done with third party games?

I feel like the number is low.

There were a Street Fighter 2 Super Nintendo SNES bundle, and a Street Fighter 2 Turbo SNES bundle if i remember correctly. There were also a Fifa SNES bundle, or perhaps it was International Superstar Soccer? There is some soccer SNES bundle at least

There are also a Turtles and a The Smurfs Nintendo 8bit NES bundles, but i am not 100% sure if these are official bundles or not.

I think that all of these NES and SNES bundles that i mentioned came out France, and perhaps in some other countries as well, but i dont know too much about that. I think England got the Street Fighter 2 Turbo SNES bundle if i am not mistaken.

 

[Liabe Brave]

20K for Killzone 2....didn't Resistance and Resistance 2 sell over 100k? I'm pretty sure COD4 PS3 and Halo 3 did, what did Gears do?

Only Resistance and COD 4 PS3 have done over 100k.

Best-selling FPS in Japan this gen
Name          Sys     Wk 1      LTD
Resistance    PS3     16k      136k
COD 4         PS3     21k      114k
Halo 3        360     61k       84k
Gears*        360     34k       74k
MP 3          Wii     34k       73k
Resistance 2  PS3     35k       58k
COD 4         360     26k       55k
*not actually FPS, but included by request

Notes: If you don't want to count Metroid Prime as a FPS, then the highest Wii entry is Red Steel, further down at 45k LTD. Gears 2 has not yet been released in Japan, but will assuredly make it onto this list somewhere.

It seems that Killzone 2 will end up with an opening week in that group of games at the end (i.e. around 35k). I agree with Joshua that legs will likely be low, putting its eventual LTD in about the fifth or sixth spot overall (depending on if you count Corruption as a FPS).

 

[Cosmonaut X]

SNIP

You're listing MP3 as a maybe, but including Gears of War?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

You're listing MP3 as a maybe, but including Gears of War?

All western based so I'd say it's fair game.

 

[Fafalada]

Ah crap beaten

It's curious how FPS with lowest openings had the longest legs - R1 is explained by being launch title and all - but why COD4?

 

[Grampa Simpson]

I don't know much about Monster Hunter. Is there some sort of persistent character building? Might we see an announcement that MH3 accounts can be shared between a Wii and the eventual PSP version? It seems like it would be a pretty big selling point to me. Play in groups on the playground, and then play online when you get home. Will there be WiiSpeak compatibility?

 

[Cosmonaut X]

All western based so I'd say it's fair game.

Uh...

Best-selling FPS in Japan this gen

?

 

[nli10]

Not just a demo but a uniquely-branded classic controller as well. I mainly bought it for that.

I almost imported it for that. £50 for a controller I already have in white and a game I can't use is a bit much... :lol

 

[Liabe Brave]

You're listing MP3 as a maybe, but including Gears of War?

I know it's not a FPS, but that was one of the titles specifically asked about by AranhaHunter. Perhaps I should've put an asterisk!

 

[spwolf]

Nice first day sales of MHG, let's see how much it pushes hardware.

This MH3 debate is pretty funny, it's mainly the Anti-Nintendo that are expecting it to push alot of units and hardware, while the Pro-Nintendo side (me included) don't expect it break any records. Seeing those PS3 numbers, I think WSR will do more for the Wii then MH3 will.

well thats because you dont want someone quoting you later on.... chicken.

 

[thestopsign]

According to GameFAQs the Wii has:

04/29  	Asobu Made in Ore
04/29        Jikkyou Powerful Major League 2009
05/14 	Winning Eleven Playmaker 2009
05/21 	Tact of Magic
05/28 	Ougon no Kizuna
06/04 	Arc Rise Fantasia

Coming out in the next month or so. Any expectations from any of these games?

I think Winning Eleven is the only one that will do over 100k, or that was the potential too, but Arc Rise and Jikkyou should put up nice numbers as well. Asobu is a wild card, I think it was a game that Nintendo showed off last fall, and from the only description I could find of it, it is a mini-game collection of some sort.

That's enough small stuff to bridge until Wii Sports Resort in June.

 

[markatisu]

I did not see this before, Hori released a wiimote skin and box for the wiimote/cc alongside the MHG Starter Pak
http://www.hori.jp/products/wii/wii_monhun_pocket/#

Thats kinda cool

 

[BishopLamont]

well thats because you dont want someone quoting you later on.... chicken.

are you 10?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Asobu is a wild card, I think it was a game that Nintendo showed off last fall, and from the only description I could find of it, it is a mini-game collection of some sort.

Asobu Made in Ore for Wii isn't even going to make a Famitsu chart.

 

[AranhaHunter]

I don't know much about Monster Hunter. Is there some sort of persistent character building? Might we see an announcement that MH3 accounts can be shared between a Wii and the eventual PSP version? It seems like it would be a pretty big selling point to me. Play in groups on the playground, and then play online when you get home. Will there be WiiSpeak compatibility?

I seriously doubt it, I think it's technically possible and they could probably do some neat shit between a handheld/console versions of MH, but unless MH3 gets moved/ported to the PS3/PSN and/or MHP3 gets moved/ported to the DS, I doubt it'll ever happen.