Support NeoGAF

[Jokeropia]

the point is that if there's always gonna be a "big game from Nintendo" on the horizon, and if they're not buying any other games and always waiting for it, that's going to be a detrimental habit to have in your userbase that needs to change.

They're not waiting because the big Nintendo game is on the horizon, they're waiting because no other good games have been released in a while.

 

[davepoobond]

They're not waiting because the big Nintendo game is on the horizon, they're waiting because no other good games have been released in a while.

shit sells, too. otherwise they wouldn't make it.

 

[Kildace]

They're not waiting because the big Nintendo game is on the horizon, they're waiting because no other good games have been released in a while.

DBZ is not a bad game, it's just not AAA. For a console to be worthwile for developers, the user base has to buy non-AAA games too. PS2 gamers did / still do.

 

[Jokeropia]

shit sells, too. otherwise they wouldn't make it.

Most doesn't, and the good selling type hasn't been that frequent lately either.

DBZ is not a bad game, it's just not AAA. For a console to be worthwile for developers, the user base has to buy non-AAA games too. PS2 gamers did / still do.

There are 20 million PS2 owners in Japan.

 

[davepoobond]

Most doesn't, and the good selling type hasn't been that frequent lately either.

how many gundam games have there been in the top 10?

 

[Narag]

the point is that if there's always gonna be a "big game from Nintendo" on the horizon, and if they're not buying any other games and always waiting for it, that's going to be a detrimental habit to have in your userbase that needs to change.

I'm still waiting for Virtua Fighter 5.

 

[Jokeropia]

how many gundam games have there been in the top 10?

Main series games generally get there, why?

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

what happens after they're done waiting? are they done playing with the wii?

Smash in Q1. Mario Kart in Q2 and other minor games say that until end Q2 2008 the answer should be "no". Then: it sepends from the line-up. I think anyway that Nintendo has a pretty full plan from this november. It could be better of course, but still not bad for what concern First party's games.

 

[Kildace]

There are 20 million PS2 owners in Japan.

Bad / mediocre / average games sold on the PS2 well before it had an install base of 20 million.

 

[BishopLamont]

what happens after they're done waiting? are they done playing with the wii?

I rather be waiting for Wii games than PS3 or 360 games if I was in Japan.

 

[Jokeropia]

Bad / mediocre / average games sold on the PS2 well before it had an install base of 20 million.

Well, Wii has sold much more software than the PS2 did in it's first year already. (Best software tie-ratio for a new system since 1996.)

 

[Brak]

Well, Wii has sold much more software than the PS2 did in it's first year already. (Best software tie-ratio for a new system since 1996.)

THE THIRD PARTIES, WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE THIRD PARTIES

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Did they ever know? There's an audience of gamers, weaned on Nintendo consoles but carried into adulthood and beyond on PlayStations, who probably line up pretty closely with what we mean when we say "hardcore" -- I don't think Nintendo has ever, even once, successfully marketed something to this demographic.

Most credit goes to the game itself, and it probably doesn't count if you're talking specifically about in Japan, but they seemed to do alright with Goldeneye. I know that's a long time ago, but hey, even once.

That's all really beside my point, though. In America and Japan the hardcore markets are defined by very different genres, but most of them are currently genres that came into their own on PlayStation hardware. Sony's got a long history of working to successfully market 3d action games, realistic driving simulators, marquee jRPGs, modern sandbox games, etc., both from their internal studios and key 3rd parties; Nintendo has never developed games in many of these genres and hasn't ever had call to push them on the market.

Well, I suppose if we define hardcore by what Nintendo doesn't do, it is hard to find examples to the contrary.



As for the argument on the rest of the page about non-AAA games needing to be successful... I thought usually it's been the most successful games like Wii Sports, Wii Play, and Mario Party 8 which have taken the most flak for not being AAA.

 

[charlequin]

Most credit goes to the game itself, and it probably doesn't count if you're talking specifically about in Japan, but they seemed to do alright with Goldeneye.

Okay, GoldenEye actually is a pretty good (though dramatically singular) counter-example.

Well, I suppose if we define hardcore by what Nintendo doesn't do, it is hard to find examples to the contrary.

I mostly just wanted to illustrate that if Nintendo don't really have a well-oiled machine for selling certain kinds of games right now, it's not because they got worse at it, it's because they've never tried to do it. (Whether that is good or bad is left to the reader.)

 

[Azelover]

I mostly just wanted to illustrate that if Nintendo don't really have a well-oiled machine for selling certain kinds of games right now, it's not because they got worse at it, it's because they've never tried to do it.

Of course, but they're not Sega. They're not out to fill all the voids themselves, there's a number of opportunities for third parties to take on these open roles but they usually have better options. If the Wii continues to sell as well as it is, eventually they will come to it. You'll probably only get these games from other companies, specially now.

 

[djtiesto]

I really need to remember not to use the word "hardcore" on GAF because people have so many stupid misconceptions about the "hardcore"/"casual" split on here but pretty much, yes. PS2 was such a dominant system in all genres that anyone who didn't own one (or play its games on another system) really can't be considered a "hardcore" gamer at all.

That's all really beside my point, though. In America and Japan the hardcore markets are defined by very different genres, but most of them are currently genres that came into their own on PlayStation hardware. Sony's got a long history of working to successfully market 3d action games, realistic driving simulators, marquee jRPGs, modern sandbox games, etc., both from their internal studios and key 3rd parties; Nintendo has never developed games in many of these genres and hasn't ever had call to push them on the market.

Ehh, this I'd mostly disagree with, the so called "hardcore" genres coming into their own on PS hardware - marquee JRPGs have been around since the NES era, Mario 64 practically kicked off the 3D action game movement, and modern sandbox games (the GTA series in particular, but also all of its clones) are some of the most casual-oriented games around. Hell, I'd argue that some of the most "hardcore" genres around were born and currently reside on PC.

 

[Durante]

Hell, I'd argue that some of the most "hardcore" genres around were born and currently reside on PC.

I'd argue that you should replace "some" with "most", but I think charlequin is talking about the console hardcore. If there is such a thing

 

[charlequin]

Ehh, this I'd mostly disagree with, the so called "hardcore" genres coming into their own on PS hardware - marquee JRPGs have been around since the NES era, Mario 64 practically kicked off the 3D action game movement, and modern sandbox games (the GTA series in particular, but also all of its clones) are some of the most casual-oriented games around. Hell, I'd argue that some of the most "hardcore" genres around were born and currently reside on PC.

You can nitpick if you want, I guess. Nintendo's never really published a AAA jRPG themselves, though, and Mario 64 is a far cry from the DMC/NG/GoW genre. They don't have experience publishing any of the genres that the most dedicated enthusiasts are typically looking for, nor in supporting them from 3rd parties. I don't see how this is really a particularly debatable point, honestly. Microsoft is subject to some of the same criticisms -- just look (again) at how Blue Dragon was off the radar in the US.

 

[djtiesto]

You can nitpick if you want, I guess. Nintendo's never really published a AAA jRPG themselves, though, and Mario 64 is a far cry from the DMC/NG/GoW genre. They don't have experience publishing any of the genres that the most dedicated enthusiasts are typically looking for, nor in supporting them from 3rd parties. I don't see how this is really a particularly debatable point, honestly. Microsoft is subject to some of the same criticisms -- just look (again) at how Blue Dragon was off the radar in the US.

Well, Sony's first party efforts are comparatively slim... unless you count Arc the Lad and Wild Arms, their first parties don't focus much on RPGs at all, hell SCEA didn't even publish the most recent ATL and WA titles in the states. Nintendo has had the Mother series, Fire Emblem, the Mario RPGs, Advance Wars (simulation/SRPG but close enough), Golden Sun, and they own (?) Brownie Brown and Monolith, two companies known for RPGs.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

They don't have experience publishing any of the genres that the most dedicated enthusiasts are typically looking for, nor in supporting them from 3rd parties. I don't see how this is really a particularly debatable point, honestly.

I don't disagree there are certain genres/sub-genres Nintendo hasn't done anything notable in, but it just seems arbitrary to say that the dedicated enthusiast audience is interested in Devil May Cry but not Super Mario 3D, Final Fantasy but not Pokémon, Gran Turismo but not Mario Kart.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

ASH is nothing short of a marketing disaster. It's a good game by an extremely well-known designer on the hottest system in Japan, and it's going to choke and sputter past 100k.

HAY WE'RE WORKING ON A GAME CALLED ASH, HERE'S A SCREENSHOT. ENJOY YOU WON'T SEE ANYMORE FOR A COUPLE YEARS

a couple years later

HAY REMEMBER ASH WELL IT'S OUT TOMORROW ENJOY

:lol

It's terrible, yet so true.

 

[Mariah Carey]

[NDS] DS Nishimura Kyotarou Suspense Detective Series: Deadly Intent

That sounds interesting, actually.

 

[charlequin]

I don't disagree there are certain genres/sub-genres Nintendo hasn't done anything notable in, but it just seems arbitrary to say that the dedicated enthusiast audience is interested in Devil May Cry but not Super Mario 3D, Final Fantasy but not Pokémon, Gran Turismo but not Mario Kart.

This is going to get lost in nitpicky definitional arguments about what constitutes what (which, again, is exactly why it was a mistake for me to get involved in a conversation using the word "hardcore" in the first place) but do you really think the conclusion is that unreasonable? Nintendo's last two consoles were by and large machines to play "Nintendo games," a category that many serious gaming enthusiasts were also interested in but which by no means was central to the definition of what such an enthusiast was interested in. Nintendo's first-party lineup for its new console is not noticeably different, and they have yet to demonstrate any particular marketing finesse in pushing games outside their traditional bread and butter or their newfound casual "non-game" market.

 

[perfectchaos007]

About 20 more minutes. I've about gotten over this months NPD. Now its time for this weeks Media Create

 

[Cheesemeister]

31./29. [NDS] Brain Age (Nintendo)
32./18. [NDS] English Test DS (Rocket Co.)
33./28. [NDS] More English Training (Nintendo)
34./35. [NDS] Phoenix Wright 3 (Capcom)
35./25. [PS3] The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (Spike)
36./38. [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 2nd (Capcom)
37./32. [NDS] Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates (Square-Enix)
38./41. [NDS] The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (Nintendo)
39./37. [NDS] Home Teacher Hitman Reborn! DS: Flame Rumble 2 (Takara-Tomy)
40./31. [WII] Jikkyou Powerful Major League 2 Wii (Konami)
41./40. [PSP] The Legend of Heroes: Locus of the Sky SC (Falcom)
42./00. [PS2] Idol Janshi Suchie-Pai IV (Jaleco)
43./42. [NDS] Donkey Kong: Jungle Climber (Nintendo)
44./43. [NDS] English Training (Nintendo)
45./34. [PS2] Hisshou Pachinko/Pachislo Capture Series, Vol. 11: Neon Genesis Evangelion: My Devotion to You (D3 Publisher)
46./46. [NDS] Pokémon Diamond (Pokémon)
47./00. [PS2] Capcom Classics Collection (Capcom)
48./36. [360] Halo 3 (Microsoft)
49./00. [NDS] Face Training DS (Nintendo)
50./48. [NDS] Common Knowledge Training (Nintendo)

NDS - 27
PS2 - 8
WII - 6
PSP - 5
PS3 - 2
360 - 2

Hardware - This Week | Last Week |       YTD |        LTD
1. NDS   -    78,746 |    87,535 | 5,656,737 | 19,662,416
2. PSP   -    59,584 |    86,895 | 2,007,799 |  6,539,928
3. WII   -    20,575 |    20,704 | 2,735,833 |  3,655,476
4. PS3   -    12,365 |    10,822 |   735,295 |  1,192,853
5. PS2   -    10,181 |    10,446 |   617,542 | 20,772,401
6. 360   -     6,161 |     1,547 |   158,497 |    423,199
7. GBA   -       187 |       242 |    48,286 | 15,346,365
8. NGC   -        79 |       109 |     9,973 |  4,179,441

GBA = 0 GBA + 127 SP + 60 Micro
NDS = 0 DS + 78,746 Lite

 

[Frillen]

Damn you're fast.

Edit: M-create has removed the GBA and the DS from the list.

 

[Rolf NB]

What's with the XBox 360's big hardware bump with no software near the top ten?

edit: Ah, never mind. It's the Elite amirite?

 

[perfectchaos007]

Wii down 200 units, PS3 up 2000 units. Wii has decreased in sales for what, 7 consecutive weeks now?

 

[Loudninja]

The Wii went down again, its weird to see that

 

[womfalcs3]

These sales are prior to the PS3's price drop, correct?

 

[kukaku shiba]

The Wii went down again, its weird to see that

i guess people are getting sick of mini-games, just like they got sick of non-games.

 

[Sage00]

These sales are prior to the PS3's price drop, correct?

Correct. Sales went UP after the price drop announcement, but before the price drop has actually taken effect. :lol

 

[SRG01]

PSP - 59,584
WII - 20,575
PS3 - 12,365

So PS3 is within striking distance of Wii now. Interesting times.


And at PSP falling so much.

 

[Gaborn]

The Wii went down again, its weird to see that

If only the Wii could be selling as well as the PS3.

 

[Sage00]

When is the PS3 price drop/white launch?
And when does Mario Galaxy release?

 

[VultureDude]

PSP - 59,584
WII - 20,575
PS3 - 12,365

So PS3 is within striking distance of Wii now. Interesting times.


And at PSP falling so much.

it has exactly one month to do some damage, then the Wii's reinforcement arrive...

 

[perfectchaos007]

PS3's price drop + no new titles for Wii next week = a possible cross in streams next week

 

[Xavien]

PS3 not under 10k?
Wii not under 20k?

Pretty boring week.

PSP is continuing to fall pretty hard though

Damn you're fast.

Edit: M-create has removed the GBA and the DS from the list.

He has a parser that automatically generates that post the momement the results apear on the site. You're never gonna beat it.

 

[iceatcs]

These sales are prior to the PS3's price drop, correct?

When is the PS3 price drop/white launch?

Not yet, it is Oct 17th

White 40GB I think 27th edit: it is 11th Nov.

And when does Mario Galaxy release?

1st Nov?

 

[Sage00]

Not yet, it is Oct 17th

White 40GB I think 27th edit: it is 11th Nov.


1st Nov?

Hmm. So we have two possible weeks when the streams could cross.
Then white armor to take some of the sting out of the hammering Mario Galaxy is going to give it the next.

 

[donny2112]

He has a parser that automatically generates that post the momement the results apear on the site. You're never gonna beat it.

Frillen has already beaten it a few times.

Also, some places dropped the PS3 price as soon as the announcement was made. The offical date was this week, though.

 

[reilo]

So PS3 had a price-cut yesterday? And Ceramic White on Nov 1st? Next two weeks are going to be interesting.

 

[Jcgamer60]

Nothing really interesting this week, except PSP which is returning to normal.

 

[Lupin3]

So PS3 had a price-cut yesterday? And Ceramic White on Nov 1st? Next two weeks are going to be interesting.

Ceramic white on the 11th :/

 

[Gaborn]

Nothing really interesting this week, except PSP which is returning to normal.

I wonder where it will eventually bottom out. My guess personally is around 40k/week, a slight bump from its consistent 30k weeks.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The streams are going to cross soon, I can feel it.

It's actually pretty exciting.

 

[Brofist]

get used to see this game in the chart for many, many weeks

like one more maybe?

 

[donny2112]

like one more maybe?

Moor-Angol is referring to the Top 30. It's predecessor still shows up sometimes on the Famitsu Top 30.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Your avatar is trying to save multiple cookies for home.comcast.net onto my computer. Please host it somewhere else to avoid this crap, and clean out your PMs because they are full. Thanks

I'm sure I can't be the only one hosting an avatar from Comcast. Am I the only one this is happening to?

 

[Link]

it has exactly one month to do some damage, then the Wii's reinforcement arrive...

Galaxy comes out on 11/1 in Japan.