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[test_account]

Maybe he meant 'relative to its predecessor'? I dunno.

Maybe, but even so it wouldnt be the worse. I think Virtual Boy is the worse. GB sold over 100 million, but VB didnt even sold 1 million afaik. This is handhelds though, but still. Jaguar CD and Sega 32x might also fit in there (altho these were console addons). Hyper Neo Geo 64 might be the worse though. It didnt even make it as far as becomming a home console.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

What happend to Jaguar, 3do, CD-i etc.? PS3 will never be the biggest failure in history.

Those consoles were never expected to do well, PS3 will go down as the biggest failure in history because of how far Sony fell from grace with the PS2.

 

[test_account]

Those consoles were never expected to do well

They werent? Why did they bother making them if they didnt expect them to do well?

PS3 will go down as the biggest failure in history because of how far Sony fell from grace with the PS2.

What about Virtual Boy?

 

[Lobster]

What about Virtual Boy?

That was covered up easily while Ps3..well..it matters. the Playstation name is big in gaming while virtual boy was just meh.

 

[Raist]

What about N64?

fixed

 

[BishopLamont]

Maybe, but even so it wouldnt be the worse. I think Virtual Boy is the worse. GB sold over 100 million, but VB didnt even sold 1 million afaik. This is handhelds though, but still. Jaguar CD and Sega 32x might also fit in there (altho these were console addons). Hyper Neo Geo 64 might be the worse though. It didnt even make it as far as becomming a home console.

Why are you comparing the VB to the GB, it wasn't it's successor. While the PS3 is the successor to one of the two biggest consoles ever.

 

[izakq]

What is wrong will Bill Kristol ? Is this the one who killed Clinton Health Care Plan ? I don't get what is funny about it.

The guy made so many predictions on all of the successes that the US would have in the war in Iraq, when it turned out he was just about wrong on every single one of those predictions.

 

[Cool Hand Luke]

fixed

Nintendo went from 50 million (SNES) units sold to 30 million (N64), and I'm sure they made a healthy profit from the console. Not that big of a failure, even though they lost their leading position in the market.

 

[DDayton]

Those consoles were never expected to do well, PS3 will go down as the biggest failure in history because of how far Sony fell from grace with the PS2.

I think the more interesting way to approach this would be to chart Microsoft's losses on the Xbox versus Sony's losses on the PS3.

Are we defining failure by money lost, or by the lack of systems sold?

 

[Stumpokapow]

I think the more interesting way to approach this would be to chart Microsoft's losses on the Xbox versus Sony's losses on the PS3.

Are we defining failure by money lost, or by the lack of systems sold?

Money lost, lack of consoles sold, mindshare lost, brand dilution.

Of course, if Blu-Ray succeeds, the convergence value might help make up some of the ridiculous cash losses.

 

[puck1337]

I think the more interesting way to approach this would be to chart Microsoft's losses on the Xbox versus Sony's losses on the PS3.

Are we defining failure by money lost, or by the lack of systems sold?

I guess that the purist in me wants to define it by the lack of systems sold, since it truly reflects the popularity of the system. It also provides some indication of how difficult it will be for the company to generate revenue in the future. Of course, from a pure corporate victory perspective, cash is king.

 

[Neo C.]

Are we defining failure by money lost, or by the lack of systems sold?

Profit comes first. It doesn't matter when you have a small userbase, as long as you can do some healthy business.

 

[BishopLamont]

Profit comes first. It doesn't matter when you have a small userbase, as long as you can do some healthy business.

I think userbase comes first, mind share, market share, profit, software and the eventual successor all depends on how well your console sells.

 

[D.Lo]

I don't think you can really consider non-contenders like the 3DO, 32X, Jaguar, CD-i etc as 'the greatest failures', since they were never properly backed, funded or positioned. If I release a console that sells one unit, does that automatically make it 'the biggest failure in history'? The Saturn and Dreamcast are probably the biggest failures ever given their contexts IMO. There's also a claim for the GameCube based on positioning, the Xbox based on money lost, or the PSP based on expectations before release, company hubris about what they would do to the competition, and software sales.

What about Virtual Boy?

That doesn't make any sense at all. While it used the 'Boy' name, it was in no way a continuation of the Game Boy, it was a totally new line. VB is more analogous to the PSX (Japanese PS2+PVR thing) as a failed spin-off product that was never really pushed. Nobody ever presumed the VB would sell 100 million, it was a new toy just made by the same company.

fixed

SNES 49 million to N64 32 million. A 35% drop, but it still almost as much money as Sony did on the PS1. The PS3 would have to sell around 80 million to be up to N64 level 'failure'.

But we can't really call the PS3 until the generation is nearly over, and then you need parameters.People call the Xbox a 'success' for 'getting MS into the market', even though it lost ten times more money then the Saturn. Heck, sometimes the same people call the N64 a failure and the Xbox a success for positioning reasons, despite the fact the N64 sold 50% more and made gazillions while the Xbox was a money pit.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I think userbase comes first, mind share, market share, profit, software and the eventual successor all depends on how well your console sells.

Profit ALWAYS comes first. Especially when we're talking about publically traded companies.

Marketshare is second.

 

[ethelred]

That doesn't make any sense at all. While it used the 'Boy' name, it was in no way a continuation of the Game Boy, it was a totally new line. VB is more analogous to the PSX (Japanese PS2+PVR thing) as a failed spin-off product that was never really pushed. Nobody ever presumed the VB would sell 100 million, it was a new toy just made by the same company.

Then why did Hiroshi Yamauchi have Gunpei Yokoi killed over it?

 

[D.Lo]

Then why did Hiroshi Yamauchi have Gunpei Yokoi killed over it?

Sony did pretty much the same thing to Kutaragi as Nintendo did to Yokoi, so does that make the PS3 'Sony's Virtual Boy'? From a profit/business standpoint, maybe it does.

 

[ethelred]

Sony did pretty much the same thing to Kutaragi as Nintendo did to Yokoi, so does that make the PS3 'Sony's Virtual Boy'? From a profit/business standpoint, maybe it does.

Ken Kutaragi is still alive.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Ken Kutaragi is still alive.

Give it time.

 

[farnham]

Ken Kutaragi is still alive.

So you assume that the car accident that Gunpei was killed in was actually done by some Nintendo Ninjas..? :lol :lol :lol

 

[AceBandage]

So you assume that the car accident that Gunpei was killed in was actually done by some Nintendo Ninjas..? :lol :lol :lol

Shh, they're always listening.

 

[ethelred]

So you assume that the car accident that Gunpei was killed in was actually done by some Nintendo Ninjas..? :lol :lol :lol

That was no accident.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

God damn it ethelred, are you trying to get us all killed?

Yamauchi is reading this thread in his underwear with a very grim look on his face indeed!

 

[Raist]

SNES 49 million to N64 32 million. A 35% drop, but it still almost as much money as Sony did on the PS1. The PS3 would have to sell around 80 million to be up to N64 level 'failure'.

But we can't really call the PS3 until the generation is nearly over, and then you need parameters.People call the Xbox a 'success' for 'getting MS into the market', even though it lost ten times more money then the Saturn. Heck, sometimes the same people call the N64 a failure and the Xbox a success for positioning reasons, despite the fact the N64 sold 50% more and made gazillions while the Xbox was a money pit.

If you reason in terms of sales only, yeah.
But they went from market leadership to a distant 2nd place, beaten by a company that was barely a major actor in the video games market, lost many third parties' support, and made many mistakes.
Oh, and before the N64, you could ask any people about videogames, they would have told you "super nes", or "nintendo". After that, video games and playstation were synonymous.

So yeah, maybe the sales weren't disastrous, but overall that was a big failure. And I'm pretty sure this failure harmed the gamecube a lot, too. It was a very good console but most likely failed because of its predecessor.

 

[farnham]

That was no accident.

Oh cmon.. Why is Kaga Shojo still alive then..?

I heard that the lead designer of Technos Japan was killed by the Yakuza.. but Yokoi Gunpei.. cmon he wasnt assassinated..

 

[BishopLamont]

Profit ALWAYS comes first. Especially when we're talking about publically traded companies.

Marketshare is second.

Yeah but when you're already profiting, eg. N64>GC, PS1>PS2 you want more profit, which is when userbase matters most since it affects everything that you need to profit.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

If you reason in terms of sales only, yeah.
But they went from market leadership to a distant 2nd place, beaten by a company that was barely a major actor in the video games market, lost many third parties' support, and made many mistakes.
Oh, and before the N64, you could ask any people about videogames, they would have told you "super nes", or "nintendo". After that, video games and playstation were synonymous.

So yeah, maybe the sales weren't disastrous, but overall that was a big failure. And I'm pretty sure this failure harmed the gamecube a lot, too. It was a very good console but most likely failed because of its predecessor.

In Japan, sure. But the PS3 is a worldwide failure, so let's give it some props for that.

 

[Raist]

In Japan, sure. But the PS3 is a worldwide failure, so let's give it some props for that.

In Europe, too. That was crazy. I mean, a lot of people were saying "I'm going to buy a Nintendo for my kids". Even if it wasn't a nintendo system :lol

 

[Eteric Rice]

In Europe, too. That was crazy. I mean, a lot of people were saying "I'm going to buy a Nintendo for my kids". Even if it wasn't a nintendo system :lol

I remember the days when everyone thought everything was Nintendo. As a little kid I even called the Playstation the "Nintendo Playstation." :lol

 

[Raist]

I remember the days when everyone thought everything was Nintendo. As a little kid I even called the Playstation the "Nintendo Playstation." :lol

Heh. Well, you weren't completely wrong, after all.

 

[D.Lo]

Ken Kutaragi is still alive.

Yeah yeah. My Piano teacher died at around the same time as Yokoi and in a very similar way, so I always remember them as linked. He also taught me to play the Bach tune in Game Boy Tetris!

If you reason in terms of sales only, yeah.
But they went from market leadership to a distant 2nd place, beaten by a company that was barely a major actor in the video games market, lost many third parties' support, and made many mistakes.
Oh, and before the N64, you could ask any people about videogames, they would have told you "super nes". After that, video games and playstation were synonymous.

So yeah, maybe the sales weren't disastrous, but overall that was a big failure. And I'm pretty sure this failure harmed the gamecube a lot, too. It was a very good console but most likely failed because of its predecessor.

I agree, but the Xbox only achieved any of its 'success' (which was mostly mindshare since they were an even further distant second from Sony then the N64 was) by hemorrhaging vast amounts of money.

How would the N64 have fared if Nintendo had decided to take a 3 billion dollar loss to save it? A very high emphasis has to be placed on 'mindshare' for a console that sold 50% more and made probably US$6 billion more profit to be seen as less of a success then the Xbox.

 

[AceBandage]

I remember the days when everyone thought everything was Nintendo. As a little kid I even called the Playstation the "Nintendo Playstation." :lol

I STILL hear this, actually. It's just bizarre in this day and age.

 

[Vieo]

Maybe the 10 year reign curse is true. Maybe it is impossible for one company to be top dog for more than two console generations in a row.

 

[Angelcurio]

Oh cmon.. Why is Kaga Shojo still alive then..?

I heard that the lead designer of Technos Japan was killed by the Yakuza.. but Yokoi Gunpei.. cmon he wasnt assassinated..

Problem is that Yokoi actually survived the accident, he was killed when he was checking the car after that, so the whole accident thing seems a bit fishy.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I STILL hear this, actually. It's just bizarre in this day and age.

Wow...

Just goes to show you how engraved Nintendo's names was in our brains.

Do people still call games, "tapes?"

 

[Neo C.]

Yeah but when you're already profiting, eg. N64>GC, PS1>PS2 you want more profit, which is when userbase matters most since it affects everything that you need to profit.

Theoretically you could have the biggest userbase and still lose money. There's a reason why the 360 and the PS3 aren't dropping their price faster. If userbase really matters most we would already see a 300$ PS3. It isn't like there's a shortage of PS3s.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Yeah yeah. My Piano teacher died at around the same time as Yokoi and in a very similar way, so I always remember them as linked. He also taught me to play the Bach tune in Game Boy Tetris!

Wait, your piano teacher died like this?

After a minor car accident involving a truck, Kiso and Yokoi pulled over to examine the damage of the two automobiles. While examining, two cars rammed into the broken down car from either side, crushing Yokoi.

 

[farnham]

Wow...

Just goes to show you how engraved Nintendo's names was in our brains.

Do people still call games, "tapes?"

even in their weak phases Nintendo had big hits to keep them remembered...

in the N64 era it was Pokemon.. which is arguably bigger then any game ever released
in the GC era it was Gameboy Advance and the whole SNES nostalgia that came with it..

 

[AceBandage]

Wow...

Just goes to show you how engraved Nintendo's names was in our brains.

Do people still call games, "tapes?"

I haven't heard this. Though, I have heard DS games called discs...

 

[D.Lo]

Wait, your piano teacher died like this?

Yes, except he hit a cow with his car, got out to see how the cow was, and then while he was out the front a truck hit his stationary car from behind.

Here's his bio on the off chance you're interested.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

I think test_account deserves applause for managing to divert attention away from this week's PS3 sales.

 

[BishopLamont]

Theoretically you could have the biggest userbase and still lose money. There's a reason why the 360 and the PS3 aren't dropping their price faster. If userbase really matters most we would already see a 300$ PS3. It isn't like there's a shortage of PS3s.

Theoretically? Why would that matter when realistically is what matters. Dropping the price isn't going to solve the userbase problem, take a look at the GC.

Yes, except he hit a cow with his car, got out to see how the cow was, and then while he was out the front a truck hit his stationary car from behind.

Here's his bio on the off chance you're interested.

Moral of this story: Don't park in the middle of the road even when there's a dieing cow.

Man, that's hardcore.

What did he do to piss off Nintendo?

Nintendcows was in production.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Yes, except he hit a cow with his car, got out to see how the cow was, and then while he was out the front a truck hit his stationary car from behind.

Here's his bio on the off chance you're interested.

Man, that's hardcore.

What did he do to piss off Nintendo?

 

[Kuramu]

Wow...

Just goes to show you how engraved Nintendo's names was in our brains.

Do people still call games, "tapes?"

Must be a regional thing. I've never heard games called "tapes"
Around here, in 2600 days they were "cartridges"
NES onward they were "carts" no matter how much they wanted us to call them "game paks"

 

[test_account]

Why are you comparing the VB to the GB, it wasn't it's successor. While the PS3 is the successor to one of the two biggest consoles ever.

I'm comparing VB to GB because both are portable systems and both are made by Nintendo. GB was incredible successful and the VB was not. Altho VB was not directly a successor to the GB, nor was it intended to replace the GB, it was still a big failure compared to the original Gameboy.

When a company makes a gaming system that is so incredible popular you would expect that their next product, direct successor or not, would be popular as well (maybe not just as popular, but relatively). Just like the PS2 to PS3 situation. People expected PS3 to be very popular due to PS1 and PS2's popularity.

Gameboy was insane popular and has somewhat 1000+ games for it. VB didnt even sell a million units, it only had 30-40 games or so and it was discontuined the following year. Does things have to be a direct successor to be a failure?

That doesn't make any sense at all. While it used the 'Boy' name, it was in no way a continuation of the Game Boy, it was a totally new line. VB is more analogous to the PSX (Japanese PS2+PVR thing) as a failed spin-off product that was never really pushed. Nobody ever presumed the VB would sell 100 million, it was a new toy just made by the same company.

What doesnt make sense? VB was not intended to take over for the GB, true that, but it was still a big failure compared to how successful GB was and it was the next portable system in Nintendo's portable system line. Both are portable systems and both are from the same company so you can easily compare them, so i wonder what you mean with that it doesnt make sense at all.

PSX and VB are 2 different things. PSX is basicly a PS2 that had other media functions added on to it (or vice versa if you want). VB is a totally new and a own system, unlike the PSX. The VB is not a GB that have 3d added to it, the VB got much more powerful hardware than a Gameboy. The Virtuall Boy can also only play VB games, its not backward compatible with any GB games.


Anyway, the whole discussion was about PS3 being the biggest failure in history. PS3 might end up as the biggest fall from a predecessor system (hypothetic example: PS2 sold 100 million and PS3 sold 30 million, which would be a 70 million fall), but saying that its the biggest failure in history is plain wrong in my opinion. No one knows what PS3's final worldwide LTD will be anyway. There are other things in video game history that are bigger failure than the PS3, stuff like Jaguar, VB, Sega 32X and Apple Pippin. These are all systems that are made by huge video game companies, not some small company from Taiwan that only a handfull of people have heard of.

Selling less than a successor doesnt automaticly makes it the biggest failure in history in my opinion. There are many many factors that depends on failure, such as how many games the system gets and how long its being supported. Making a system that are discontunied after a year and only recieves ~50 games or so is a much bigger failure than a system that sells less than its predecessor, but still recieves alot of good games and are supported for years.

 

[donny2112]

Just a question, you list a reason for every exception, so what would be the reason for PS3 being lower? I mean, these numbers are based on a comparison to the week before, so it's very dependant on what happened during that week as well.
You mention Red PSP Slim launch as the reason for PSP being lower this week. But in that case, isn't it possible to use GT5P as a similar excuse for PS3? Didn't hardware sales jump up considerably (about 38k --> 63k) due to Gran Turismo 5 Prologue being released last week?

I really don't know. If last week was a spike due to GT5P, it obviously wasn't sustainable, which isn't good for a product (video game console) that should be pushed by its software. PSP has long since showed that it isn't selling for its software, and is presumably selling for its hardware. Maybe PS3 is selling for its non-gaming functions (is "potential" a non-gaming function?), so a biggish release doesn't keep sales up going into Christmas/New Year's.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Then why did Hiroshi Yamauchi have Gunpei Yokoi killed over it?

For Yamauchi, it was just Tuesday*.





*Saturday

 

[Stumpokapow]

Selling less than a successor doesnt automaticly makes it the biggest failure in history in my opinion. There are many many factors that depends on failure, such as how many games the system gets and how long its being supported. Making a system that are discontunied after a year and only recieves ~50 games or so is a much bigger failure than a system that sells less than its predecessor, but still recieves alot of good games and are supported for years.

Would you call the GameCube a failure?

 

[Jokeropia]

Selling less than a successor doesnt automaticly makes it the biggest failure in history in my opinion. There are many many factors that depends on failure, such as how many games the system gets and how long its being supported.

How about loss of mindshare, marketshare and money? In all these respects, PS3 is a bigger failure than anything before it. (It might not yet have lost as much money as the Xbox, but is well on it's way of doing so and has already wiped out all the profits gained from PS2.)

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

The Virtual Boy was the first major chink in Nintendo's armour, and it is a noteworthy failure for that reason alone. I think the concept never really gelled with most people, and given the reaction to the system I'm surprised they even bothered releasing it.

The PS3 is certainly the bigger failure at this stage though, simply because it's supposed to be Sony's bread and butter and there is *nothing* waiting in the wings to back it up if it plops. Also, reaction to the system was quite good until they uttered the magic words "five hundred ninety nine". Even with that, I think a lot of people expected the system to magically do well anyway.

When all is said and done, I think PS3's going to end up in marketing textbooks just under "New Coke".