Support NeoGAF

[Phife Dawg]

I didn't think that MP8 would sell that strong in it's second week. MnG has quite the drop as expected. PH is showing DS style legs and NSMB is just plain unbelievable. This one will sell bucketloads come christmas time again.

Endless ocean kinda bombed

MP8 - wtfpicard. This trash is still topping over others?
MnG5 - Go go go!!!
IAWW - Nomura is officially supporting Sony :lol
Zelda - what can I say...it's zelda + ds = unstoppable combo.
Endless ocean - bomba bomba

Man you just got to love people looking for Wii "bombas". What were your sales expectations for a title like Forever Blue?

Elebits is a bomba. Zelda is not. And people are trying to say that Nintendo won't attempt an epic project like TP again because of the sales, but Nintendo is a worldwide operation.

Now even Elebits is a bomba. It did almost 60k in Japan. Do you honestly think Konami thought it would do better than that? After all this is a low budget, small game. If games like these are bombas what would stuff like Folk Souls etc. be?

Now Dewey, there's a bomba.

 

[titiklabingapat]

It was a joke, and I already apologized 3-4 times, publically, and privately to members I upset. I apologize to you too if the things I've said in the past have upset you.

Oh, you did.

I thought I was special

 

[bc226]

No was trying to reply to Oblivion about his IGN link dated early May and saying its possible that miyamoto might give a differnt answer now but for some reason it did not let me reply to his link.

 

[mutsu]

Yeah. Brand new IP.

Here's the list of prior brand new IPs from Square or Enix and how they've performed in their first week.

Xenogears		513,525
Parasite Eve		422,985
Kingdom Hearts		411,492
Valkyrie Profile	408,912
Tobal No. 1		398,804
Brave Fencer Musashi  	393,083
The Bouncer		219,858
Radiata Stories		190,473
Bushido Blade		173,488
Ehrgeiz			166,759 
Vagrant Story		159,842
Drakengard		131,629

Now in its second week, It's a Wonderful World has yet to hit the first week sales of any of these -- despite retailers slashing its price to clear out their copies and get rid of it once and for all.

Smashing success.

I guess I get your point. But most of those games on that list are RPGs, which is something Square-Enix is known for. IAWW is not really a traditional RPG is it?

I think if you compare the game against other 3rd games on the DS, the sales are respectable. I am by no means saying it is a smashing success, but it's definitely no bomba.

 

[bc226]

bc needs Typing of the Dead. Anyone wanna help him

nope like i said i was trying to reply to Oblivion about his IGN post and for some reason it did let me.

 

[ethelred]

I guess I get your point. But most of those games on that list are RPGs, which is something Square-Enix is known for. IAWW is not really a traditional RPG is it?

It's an RPG. Traditional? I don't know. Is Valkyrie Profile traditional? Vagrant Story? Musashi? Radiata? Parasite Eve? On top of that, four games on the list (Bouncer, Ehrgeiz, Tobal, Bushido) aren't RPGs at all. Plenty of these games are untraditional, or feature stylized artistic approaches, or were outsourced to other developers. So those excuses don't really hold, either.

I think if you compare the game against other 3rd games on the DS, the sales are respectable.

Doesn't work that way. Every time a Wii/DS third party game underperforms, we're told "Well, it's okay because really, no one but Nintendo is making any effort." Then a major effort third party effort comes out and underperforms, and now you're going to tell me "But it's selling as well as these other games..." No.

 

[Great Rumbler]

I guess I get your point. But most of those games on that list are RPGs, which is something Square-Enix is known for. IAWW is not really a traditional RPG is it?

I think if you compare the game against other 3rd games on the DS, the sales are respectable. I am by no means saying it is a smashing success, but it's definitely no bomba.

Almost half of those games listed aren't RPGs at all...

 

[mutsu]

I know that some of those games are not RPGs at all. But most of those games are on platforms which people just eats up anything that Square-Enix would throw out. It's also worth noting that the industry as a whole is just different to what it was back when those games were released.

It's no success alright, but I still stand by my point that it shouldn't be called bomba.

It's an RPG. Traditional? I don't know. Is Valkyrie Profile traditional? Vagrant Story? Musashi? Radiata? Parasite Eve? On top of that, four games on the list (Bouncer, Ehrgeiz, Tobal, Bushido) aren't RPGs at all. Plenty of these games are untraditional, or feature stylized artistic approaches, or were outsourced to other developers. So those excuses don't really hold, either.

At least these games doesn't use a touch screen to control your combat.

 

[ethelred]

I know that some of those games are not RPGs at all. But most of those games are on platforms which people just eats up anything that Square-Enix would throw out.

So it's okay that Square Enix is selling drastically less software compared to prior efforts... because now they're on a Nintendo system? And that somehow makes everything okay? "Well, gosh, Yoichi, Wonderful World sure isn't establishing itself the way we hoped... but that's okay! At least we're not making games on a Sony system where we'd sell much better!"

At least these games doesn't use a touch screen to control your combat.

WTF kind of rationalization is this?

 

[Jonnyram]

Doesn't work that way. Every time a Wii/DS third party game underperforms, we're told "Well, it's okay because really, no one but Nintendo is making any effort." Then a major effort third party effort comes out and underperforms, and now you're going to tell me "But it's selling as well as these other games..." No.

But I don't think IAWW is underperforming that much. It'll probably reach SE's expectations quite soon. It's not like Xenogears where the entire team was fired because it didn't sell a million in the first week. SE clearly wasn't expecting those kinds of numbers for this game. We'll see when they officially comment on it, but it sounds like the only people who are disappointed are those who expected another Square franchise to be born. It's done better than Code Age anyway

So it's okay that Square Enix is selling drastically less software compared to prior efforts...

Eh, that's like complaining Super Princess Peach sold drastically less than NSMB.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

For comparison, how do MNG5's 2nd week numbers compare with the other top PS3 releases so far this year? If they're similar, what are the projections for weeks 3 and 4?

 

[BishopLamont]

Saying Nintendo will not make another Zelda:TP size Zelda basing on Japan sales is like saying Microsoft will not make a Halo 4 based on Japan's sales. Success for games is relative. Where there is a market companies will keep making games for it. 4 Million WW Zelda fans is waiting for the next Zelda.

Lance leave the sarcasm to Anihawk.

 

[LanceStern]

Will you STOP IT ethel?!

Most DS titles in Japan debut at LESS than 50k, and then drop even lower the next week. IAWW debuted at 77k, and now has sold another 33k and looks like it'll have another decent third week. Why would you compare new IPs on two different systems at a different time and market? Different leaders, different interests in games, different software attachments and EVERYTHING.

For goodness sake there's no problem with peopel thinking IAWW sold well. You're doing the SAME EXACT thing to mustu as you tried to do to me last MC thread, If he thinks IAWW sold well, let him think that. Quit trying to tell him his opinion is wrong.

That is disgusting.

Mutsu, if you think IAWW sold well and still is, don't even bother talkign with ethel anymore. Just be happy with the sales and talk about something else

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Damnit, this meltdown drama business better not get my question lost in the shuffle.

 

[Haunted]

This thread has gone to the shitter fast. LanceStern is on my ignore list, but I've seen half his posts anyway because everyone always quotes the insane one.


Minna no Golf sales are pretty disappointing, considering its predecessors. But it's doing good numbers for a PS3 game. Dead system = low sales have to be expected.

Mario Party 8 and Zelda PH continue to do great numbers, as they deserve.

Forever Blue numbers are low, but it already topped its predecessor, so Arika will be really happy with it.

It's a Wonderful World sold well below S-E's expectations (even with the price slashing!), which is a shame since I find the game really interesting (what little I played of it, at least).

 

[Branduil]

 

[norinrad21]

Dewey deserved to bomb, Konami doesn't seem to take Nintendo or its huge fan base seriously.

I remember a time when the sales of games like Goemon and Hybrid heaven were going through the roof.

 

[mutsu]

Chill people. This is a public forum. Everyone has their own point of view.

Some people think this, other people think that. Come on guys.

I think Dragon Quest Swords sales is utterly disappointing, as I am a huge Dragon Quest fan (still haven't got the game myself yet though lol). But Square-Enix must be very satisfied with the sales.

Same with IAWW. I think Square-Enix should be fairly happy considering how much resources they have put into the game. I am sure followers of Square-Enix thinks otherwise.

People are bias, so just let it be.

 

[LanceStern]

Damnit, this meltdown drama business better not get my question lost in the shuffle.

Coincidentally enough, it'd be best to ask ethel or Joshua or donny2112 that question.

 

[BishopLamont]

Don't be so hard on Konami, they put the effort in Dewy, it's just they read the market wrong. Damn shame.

About IAWW, I think I gotta jump on ethelred's nonexistant bandwagon here. The game underperformed relative to it's initial stockment, and also relative to SE's previous new IP's. I just hope they don't stop making new IP's, I'm patiently waiting for the next Chrono Trigger smashing hit.

 

[ethelred]

Will you STOP IT ethel?!

Stop what? These threads are for discussion and analysis. If you're so averse to these things, take yo' ass elsewhere.

Why would you compare new IPs on two different systems at a different time and market? Different leaders, different interests in games, different software attachments and EVERYTHING.

Because your argument still boils down to "It's okay for them to do worse as long as they're doing worse on a Nintendo system." And that is, frankly, a stupid argument.

 

[rakka]

Don't be so hard on Konami, they put the effort in Dewy, it's just they read the market wrong. Damn shame.

No, we really are all

 

[LanceStern]

Because your argument still boils down to "It's okay for them to do worse as long as they're doing worse on a Nintendo system." And that is, frankly, a stupid argument.

And yours boils down to "It didn't do as good to Square's new IPs from last generation and two generations ago" when the software attach ratios and market were entirely different, rather than compare it to DS's 3rd party IPs coming out now.

But we'll get nowhere again. Good night.

 

[ethelred]

And yours boils down to "It didn't do as good to Square's new IPs from last generation and two generations ago" when the software attach ratios and market were entirely different, rather than compare it to DS's 3rd party IPs coming out now.

Actually, I laid out four criteria for considering it less than a success -- poor performance compared to prior Square/Enix new IPs, terribly low sell-through of its initial shipment, retailer dissatisfaction leading to price slashing, and the poor likelihood of a second shipment for the game. You ignored all four.

But we'll get nowhere again. Good night.

Good riddance.

 

[mutsu]

terribly low sell-through of its initial shipment, retailer dissatisfaction leading to price slashing

Well, actually these two things are directly related to each other. Terribly sell through = retailer bail out.

Maybe Square-Enix should have shipped less to lower everyone's expectation a little.

 

[Vic]

ethelred, I don't think that you should worry about the significance of IAWW sales. This game probably won't cut the chances of seeing new IPs being created by S-E. Actually, the healthy sales of the DS platform might convince otherwise. They can't and won't only work on FF and DQ. They have the resources and opportunities to do more than those two series.

 

[Lobster]

How did Endless Ocean bomba? It propably sold like 10k..Mario Party 8 looks like a million seller and Dragon Quest looks like a 600k+ seller.

 

[mutsu]

ethelred, I don't think that you should worry about the significance of IAWW sales. This game probably won't cut the chances of seeing new IP being created by S-E.

That's a good point I think. Square-Enix is really just sending out IAWW to test the waters so to speak. Maybe to test how new morphed genres will do on the system, and decide whether they should keep their traditional formulas or try something new.

 

[Stop It]

Dear me, MC is quickly turning into "The Weekly LanceStern Meltdown show!"

Lance, seriously, the only reason that Famitsu/MC disagreed so much this week on MnG5 and Mp8 is because they also had that discrepency last week, now they are about even, it's not a shock, not a suprise, and means that someone assigned one days sales to the wrong week, probably, it is not a "turnaround" for anyone who actually looks at the figures properly.

Also, Zelda chugging along nicely, 100k from where I reckoned it would stop, butknowing my luck, it wont, DQ:S hasn't stopped selling yet, but will not get best selling Wii game bar Wii Sports/Play because MP8 will take that crown by the time DQ meets TP, IAWW still can't get through its initial shipment even after a price crash? Nomura must be proud!

 

[Pureauthor]

That's a good point I think. Square-Enix is really just sending out IAWW to test the waters so to speak. Maybe to test how new morphed genres will do on the system, and decide whether they should keep their traditional formulas or try something new.

Well, gee, considering that IAWW is putting up what is thus far an extremely disappointing performance, what do you think the results of this 'water testing' is going to show?

 

[Deku]

This thread is such a mess over a SE game that may not be all that significant either way. The content of IAWW doesn't really exactly inspire as a huge seller, this isn't even a big budget epic tanking, but Lance need to stop trying to spin it as some sort of success.

 

[donkey show]

Word, Gundam Wii is still on the list. That makes me a happy fanboy.

 

[mutsu]

Well, gee, considering that IAWW is putting up what is thus far an extremely disappointing performance, what do you think the results of this 'water testing' is going to show?

More traditional RPG experience on the DS. Chrono Trigger please

 

[ComputerNerd]

Have you even looked in last weeks thread? EDIT: never mind



If you look at the last MC thread, we got into a little tussle; The numbers we argued over [Famistu] pitted Minna at 43k and IAWW at 40k for the week. And MP8 at 150k. The discussion occured because I believed second week sales for Minna no Golf was good as well as good for IAWW.

Now we come into MC and see how MP8 has lower second week sales than expected, and Hot Shots Golf much higher, and IAWW lowwer.

It's a very interesting turn of events. And I'd like to see what people have to sayabout the success and legs of MP8, Minna no Golf and IAWW now that we have different numbers.

A bit different. Hot Shots Golf now had a 2nd week drop of 57.89%.

MP8 had a drop of 49%.

IAWW had a drop of 57.14%.

If my math was correct...

 

[apotema]

Zelda is pulling almost the same number as Yoshi's Island 4 months ago, only that Zelda is 5th and Yoshi was 10th!

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

For goodness sake there's no problem with peopel thinking IAWW sold well. You're doing the SAME EXACT thing to mustu as you tried to do to me last MC thread, If he thinks IAWW sold well, let him think that. Quit trying to tell him his opinion is wrong.

That is disgusting.

Well, beyond pure stats most of these threads come down to people trying to convince others of why their interpretation of things is the correct one.

For comparison, how do MNG5's 2nd week numbers compare with the other top PS3 releases so far this year? If they're similar, what are the projections for weeks 3 and 4?

Well, it does make a pretty big difference as to whether you look at the Media Create or Famitsu split of the first two weeks. Depending on which is more accurate, the steepness of sales dropoff could be quite different. Famitsu's version of MnG5 does seem a lot like Gundam Musou's first few weeks. Here's what Famitsu and MC had to say about it.

Week of 2007-02-26
Famitsu: 171,032
Media Create: 170,725

Week of 2007-03-05
Famitsu: 47,137
Media Create: 31,145

Week of 2007-03-12
Famitsu: 19,227
Media Create: Off top 10

Week of 2007-03-19
Famitsu: 11,365

Past that, off top 30, though going by the total Famitsu reported at half year it gained another 30K-ish in the next few months, bringing it to a half-year total of 277,582.

Nothing else on PS3 has been nearly as successful as these two, or stuck around the top 10/30 long enough to see much in the way of multi-week trends.

 

[ComputerNerd]

What if it takes something more drastic and exclamatory to convince Nintendo to make 2D console games.

When Twilight Princess bombed in sales and now PH selling well, and Super Mario Sunshine doing less than expected but NSMB breaking all kinds of records...

Do you think it would take Super Mario Galaxy BOMBING in Japan to convince Nintendo to make a 2D console game?

WOAH, lay off the crack.

Since when was a 4.5 million seller a bomb? (3.5 Wii, 1 GC)


And here you were saying 300K is a "success"?

Boy are you backwards today. 300K is a success, but 4.5 million is a bomb. Heh.

 

[Neo C.]

We were having fun, people were actually laughing WITH my posts.

No, not really.

 

[gimz]

good Wonderful World, go go new ip

face training is new brain training

 

[reilo]

Yeah. Brand new IP.

Here's the list of prior brand new IPs from Square or Enix and how they've performed in their first week.

Xenogears 513,525
Parasite Eve 422,985
Valkyrie Profile 408,912
Vagrant Story 159,842

I WANT SEQUELS SQUARE! MAKE IT FUCKING HAPPEN! STOP LETTING ENIX RUN YOUR SHIT! FUCKERS.

I want my proper Xenogears sequel/prequel :*(

 

[Jokeropia]

Man, this thread is a trainwreck.

Guys, in TP's case, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what Nintendo thinks. And judging by Miyamoto's reaction, they're not as happy as you'd think.

Why would Nintendo axe the game due to a slight underperformance in the franchise's weakest market? Zelda has always appealed primarily to a western audience, and TP did a fantastic job at that. You shouldn't get so hung up on one comment by Miyamoto, it's not like he's the sole authority on how Zelda should be done anyway.

 

[Haunted]

I WANT SEQUELS SQUARE! MAKE IT FUCKING HAPPEN! STOP LETTING ENIX RUN YOUR SHIT! FUCKERS.

wait, what? :lol Actraiser and the Soul Blazer trilogy (Terranigma!!) shit all over Square's non FF games.

And Valkyrie Profile is actually an Enix game.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Minna no Golf sales

Game Name:		Sys:	1st Week:	2nd Week:	3rd Week:	LTD:
Minna no Golf 1		PSX  	117.383  	72,430  	57,403  	1,777,895
Minna no Golf 2 	PSX 	273,260 	231,528 			951,931
Minna no Golf 3		PS2 	272,758 	105,189 	74,057 		921,906
Minna no Golf 4		PS2 	475,269 	162,671 	95,988 		1,083,079
Minna no Golf PSP	PSP 	66,079 		31,505 		33,404 		399,257
[b]Minna no Golf 5		PS3 	176,000[/b]

Not sure if this is all Famitsu or MC but judging from the first week sales, it's probably Famitsu.

Even if you use the higher MC numbers, MNG5 would still have the worst console 2nd week ever for the series.

 

[TTP]

Minna no Golf sales

Game Name:		Sys:	1st Week:	2nd Week:	3rd Week:	LTD:
Minna no Golf 1		PSX  	117.383  	72,430  	57,403  	1,777,895
Minna no Golf 2 	PSX 	273,260 	231,528 			951,931
Minna no Golf 3		PS2 	272,758 	105,189 	74,057 		921,906
Minna no Golf 4		PS2 	475,269 	162,671 	95,988 		1,083,079
Minna no Golf PSP	PSP 	66,079 		31,505 		33,404 		399,257
[b]Minna no Golf 5		PS3 	176,000[/b]

Not sure if this is all Famitsu or MC but judging from the first week sales, it's probably Famitsu.

Even if you use the higher MC numbers, MNG5 would still have the worst console 2nd week ever for the series.

Why dont u add the 2nd week numbers we just got?

Seem pretty decent sales to me.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Why dont u add the 2nd week numbers we just got?

Seem pretty decent sales to me.

Cause I'm not sure if the chart uses Famitsu or MC.

 

[TTP]

Cause I'm not sure if the chart uses Famitsu or MC.

Ah ok

 

[justchris]

That's just the thing. Nintendo has convinced them that they are games. The casuals and lapsed gamers don't know any better: They are buying these things and killing the industry from within.. but they don't care about supporting the industry, they just care about having fun, which is what the non-traditional games provide, while at the same time destroying our world.

While we, the true gamers, the informed gamers, the ones that supported third-parties and indies, and lesser-name developers and sleeper hits, starve. Us, the true gamers, who sit and argue over sales numbers and which company is better and which game uses more high-technology and self-shadowing more efficiently. Us true gamers who talk negatively about the games more than we play them, suffer.

It's like Tales of Symphonia and the two kingdoms. As one basks in the Tree of Mana, the other is sapped into a withering, dilapidated, disgusting creature, starving for just a drip of succulent juices from the fruit of the tree of life.

Darn those non-gamers

That is brilliant and beautiful.

"Nintendo's done making games that involve teams over 10people even though they have been doing it for a quarter of a fucking century, gaming is dead! Wiisports is like reading a book! It's a non-video-video-game!!!!!"

Did you just insult reading

 

[Haunted]

Seem pretty decent sales to me.

Yeah, I think it has a shot at beating the PSP game.

 

[AzureNightmare]

Don't know if you're new, or just didn't fish through all the pages.

I was joking in that message and it was meant to be sarcastic. notice how I call
"true gamers" those that sit in chairs and argue, complain and talk about games more than we play them.

It was a joke, and I already apologized 3-4 times, publically, and privately to members I upset. I apologize to you too if the things I've said in the past have upset you.

You really think youre gonna get off THAT easilly? You're dumber than I thought. :lol

 

[Jokeropia]

Cause I'm not sure if the chart uses Famitsu or MC.

It's Famitsu. You could use the leaked Famitsu numbers for this week, which had MnG5 at 43k.