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[Mpl90]

Amazon Japan just introduced two Switch Splatoon 2 bundle skus into the top 10, at 3rd and 8th rank (sold out obviously). Seems like a small restock just happened.

Actually several Switch SKUs increased on Amazon.co.jp, including the normal SKUs

https://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/movers-and-shakers/videogames/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_bsms

IIRC there have been restocks earlier this week (I think Monday), correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[OfficerRaichu15]

I don't know what's going on in here. But let's just be happy that Splatoon 2 kicked ass and next week we see the return of Dragon Quest as well as kick ass.

 

[Skullwaker]

There is no reason handhelds should be separated when talking about the sales of the dedicated gaming market.

I don't know what's going on in here. But let's just be happy that Splatoon 2 kicked ass and next week we see the return of Dragon Quest as well as kick ass.

Yeah, at least the charts are actually eventful right now.

 

[casiopao]

There is no reason handhelds should be separated when talking about the sales of the dedicated gaming market.



Yeah, at least the charts are actually eventful right now.

Agreed. Especially in Japan where their big difference now between dedicated gaming devices vs online mobile devices like tablet and mobile phone.

 

[Datschge]

Being a regular and being wanting to stay ignorant is not strange lol.

It's unfortunate.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

In Japan for the last 2 generations mobile has gotten all the big IPs and is making way more money than handhelds and consoles combined, so I guess we should all start replying to Nirolak instead of wasting our time arguing about a drop in the ocean selling 100 or 150k. /s

Every person discuss about what he cares about for arbitrary reasons. You can't say the arbitrary line to ignore mobile vs handhelds is ok, but the arbitrary line to separate handhelds from consoles is stupid.

Eh there is a difference between us focusing on dedicated hardware performance and us ignoring the total market. It's like, in an NPD thread we don't talk about PC despite the fact that we know PC sales are an incredibly huge portion of the market.

No one worth their salt is ignoring that mobile is impacting the Japanese dedicated market. All these platforms are conpeting for market share. If all the developer support left all the other platforms and focused on the PS4 the system would do better. There is give and take. But PS4 and WiiU being boxed products doesn't suddenly mean the market is different from Vita and 3DS when all the support for those platforms come from the same place.

 

[test_account]

And the Japanese dedicated gaming device market has been contracting since. Chris is right as always.

Wait, are you guys saying that there is absolutely no difference between a system that needs to be conntected to a screen and a portable system? And that regardless of what type of system there is, they have an equal chance to sell just as much?

 

[Fdkn]

Eh there is a difference between us focusing on dedicated hardware performance and us ignoring the total market. It's like, in an NPD thread we don't talk about PC despite the fact that we know PC sales are an incredibly huge portion of the market.

Actually, we do since many months ago, for the games that we can gather data about.

 

[NintendosBooger]

In Japan for the last 2 generations mobile has gotten all the big IPs and is making way more money than handhelds and consoles combined, so I guess we should all start replying to Nirolak instead of wasting our time arguing about a drop in the ocean selling 100 or 150k. /s

Every person discuss about what he cares about for arbitrary reasons. You can't say the arbitrary line to ignore mobile vs handhelds is ok, but the arbitrary line to separate handhelds from consoles is stupid.

You're too much. Of course you can. I don't remember the last full Layton game to launch on a handheld for 15 bucks. Wonder why that is? Or the last Mario game to open at $10, on either handheld or console. I DO remember traditional handheld games being priced comparatively to home console games. Look at that: $40 for Fire Emblem Echoes, and I don't think Dragon Quest XI 3DS will release in the States at $20, either. The point is this: you can draw an arbitrary line - a very broad and unique one - between mobile and handheld games because the traditional pricing structure and therefore, as some would argue, the form factor governing the former incubates them separate from the traditional gaming market. Price is everything, but keep forgetting that.

 

[Datschge]

Wait, are you guys saying that there is absolutely no difference between a system that needs to be conntected to a screen and a portable system? And that regardless of what type of system there is, they have an equal chance to sell just as much?

For the overall size of the dedicated gaming device market there is no difference (aside one of the two being more "successful"/accepted by the market).

I'd actually love to do detailed hardware and software numbers split by home console and handheld by year since that'd show how the market radically went portable after PS2 even within the dedicated gaming device market, but those numbers I still have to gather. I'd be happy if someone else already did the work.

 

[ethomaz]

Wait, are you guys saying that there is absolutely no difference between a system that needs to be conntected to a screen and a portable system? And that regardless of what type of system there is, they have an equal chance to sell just as much?

It is shocking but yes there some saying that here because all of them fall below the "dedicated gaming system".

The fact that there are gamers in Japan that only buys portables (for several reasons like play outside home or playing in train going to work)... they still thinks it is the same potential sales market for a console and portable.

 

[yongeandcollege]

Wait, are people saying that there is absolutely no difference between a system that needs to be conntected to a screen and a portable system? And that regardless of what type of system there is, they have an equal chance to sell just as much?

Yes, as usual.

I completely agree with ethomaz. You can draw lines in various places to argue your preferred viewpoint, but it is perfectly reasonable to want to analyse the console market in isolation. It is also perfectly reasonable to analyse the "dedicated gaming devices" market in isolation (does that include tablets?).

If one looks at the console market in isolation, then the conclusion is that selling 2 million consoles a year in Japan in the late 2010's is a decent to good performance.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Eh there is a difference between us focusing on dedicated hardware performance and us ignoring the total market. It's like, in an NPD thread we don't talk about PC despite the fact that we know PC sales are an incredibly huge portion of the market.

Just to pointing out in NPD we don't talk about PC ( we don't talk about much without leaks ) because of lack of info .
Hell we don't even know which console sold the most of the game now .
If we got data like MC thread for NPD you can be certain we would talk PC market .

 

[Chris1964]

In a year Nintendo introduced a hybrid console, if you follow Japanese sales and still believe handhelds belong to another planet and mobile to another universe as if it's still 2000, there is no logical explanation except one:

Denial.

 

[test_account]

For the overall size of the dedicated gaming device market there is no difference (aside one of the two being more "successful"/accepted by the market).

I'd actually love to do detailed hardware and software numbers split by home console and handheld by year since that'd show how the market radically went portable after PS2 even within the dedicated gaming device market, but those numbers I still have to gather. I'd be happy if someone else already did the work.

But dont you think that is a pretty distinct difference when talking about sales potential? Both things belongs to the "dedicated gaming device" category, but the arguement was about sales potential.

It is shocking but yes there some saying that here because all of them fall below the "dedicated gaming system".

The fact that there are gamers in Japan that only buys portables (for several reasons like play outside home or playing in train going to work)... they still thinks it is the same potential sales market for a console and portable.

Yes, as usual.

I completely agree with ethomaz. You can draw lines in various places to argue your preferred viewpoint, but it is perfectly reasonable to want to analyse the console market in isolation. It is also perfectly reasonable to analyse the "dedicated gaming devices" market in isolation (does that include tablets?).

If one looks at the console market in isolation, then the conclusion is that selling 2 million consoles a year in Japan in the late 2010's is a decent to good performance.

I think there is some misunderstanding somewhere because i would be surprised if they mean that the sales potential is the same between both traditional consoles and handhelds.

 

[Chris1964]

But dont you think that is a pretty distinct difference when talking about sales potential? Both things belongs to the "dedicated gaming device" category, but the arguement was about sales potential.

What difference at sales potential? Everyone is hunting gamers' money.

 

[test_account]

What difference at sales potential? Everyone is hunting gamers' money.

One product has a bigger chance to sell more due to difference in interest/popularity.

 

[Datschge]

But dont you think that is a pretty distinct difference when talking about sales potential? Both things belongs to the "dedicated gaming device" category, but the arguement was about sales potential.

Gen by gen the sales potential is down the shitter though, even more so (not less like some seem to imply) if you want to exclude handhelds.

 

[Chris1964]

One product has a bigger chance to sell more due to difference in interest/popularity.

A 3DS game has a bigger chance to sell more than a Vita/Wii U due to difference in interest/popularity

 

[ethomaz]

In a year Nintendo introduced a hybrid console, if you follow Japanese sales and still believe handhelds belong to another planet and mobile to another universe as if it's still 2000, there is no logical explanation except one:

Denial.

Nintendo introduced a hybrid console because it last console failed to sell like they wished and they wanted to merge the console and portable gaming market in one to not face a situation like happened with Wii U.

Switch sales potential is bigger than PS4 because it focus in two markets... portable and consoles while PS4 only focus in consoles market.

What you say is a potential combined market where all game hardware devices focus in both consoles and portable but that is not happening yet because there are console devices like PS4 and XB1... Nintendo is the first to show a hybrid console/portable device... only Nintendo focused in the sales potential of the combined console and portable markets.

Said that PS4 in actual Japan console market is showing that a console can be successful even without the portable market.

In a dumb example...

Group A: 150 potential buyers only buys portables.
Group B: 50 potential buyers only buys consoles.
Group C: 250 potential buyers buys either portables or consoles.

You have clear different markets for potential sales for portables (400 dudes) and consoles (300 dudes).

 

[test_account]

Gen by gen the sales potential is down the shitter though, even more so (not less like some seem to imply) if you want to exclude handhelds.

But does that matter to this arguement though? Its a comparison between what two products can sell.

A 3DS game has a bigger chance to sell more than a Vita/Wii U due to difference in interest/popularity

Yes, exactly, isnt that the point he was making? Only switching 3DS with handheld and Vita/WiiU with consoles.

 

[Chris1964]

Yes, exactly, isnt that the point he was making? Only switching 3DS with handheld and Vita/WiiU with consoles.

Vita became a home console now?

 

[hiska-kun]

Amazon Japan just introduced two Switch Splatoon 2 bundle skus into the top 10, at 3rd and 8th rank (sold out obviously). Seems like a small restock just happened.

So next week is for Media Create.

 

[Fdkn]

You're too much. Of course you can. I don't remember the last full Layton game to launch on a handheld for 15 bucks. Wonder why that is? Or the last Mario game to open at $10, on either handheld or console. I DO remember traditional handheld games being priced comparatively to home console games. Look at that: $40 for Fire Emblem Echoes, and I don't think Dragon Quest XI will release in the States at $20, either. The point is this: you can draw an arbitrary line - a very broad and unique one - between mobile and handheld games because the traditional pricing structure and therefore, as some would argue, the form factor governing the former incubates them separate from the traditional gaming market. Price is everything, but keep forgetting that.

I guess dedicated devices don't have microtransaction filled f2p games, or what it's even worse for your argument: every game under the sun has been introducing those microtransactions and monetization models from mobile as well, even if you have to buy the games prior, because publishers can still get away with it.

The line you talk was erased years ago, and what remains is not broad but blurry and out of touch.

Some pricing models are more popular in each platform, but every model is present in all of them. Layton releasing cheaper on smartphones than 3ds is not different than portable games releasing for $40 while their console counterparts are $60, even when they are the same game. (And yes, I know Japan doesn't follow this rule in the same way, but you're the one using the US pricing to make a point).

You can draw lines in various places to argue your preferred viewpoint, but it is perfectly reasonable to want to analyse the console market in isolation. It is also perfectly reasonable to analyse the "dedicated gaming devices" market in isolation (does that include tablets?).

This post is right.

 

[ggx2ac]

Vita became a home console now?

Well there was Vita TV but that seems forgettable.

 

[Fularu]

Vita became a home console now?

Vita TV!! It's doing amazing if you don't look at handheld sales and only compare it to the neogeo! ;-)

 

[test_account]

Vita became a home console now?

Yes, VitaTV Every system has a chance to fail, regardless of what type of system they are. But to put it in one question, which type of system do you think has the biggest sales potential in general?

 

[Chris1964]

If switch sells 4m next year it will be a handheld, if not a home console.

But to put it in one question, which type of system do you think has the biggest sales potential in general?

Sales potential depends on many things, something that can sell great at one system can bomb at another, it's not a one system answer.

 

[schuelma]

Yes, VitaTV Every system has a chance to fail, regardless of what type of system they are. But to put it in one question, which type of system do you think has the biggest sales potential in general?

I think you can concede that handhelds hold more appeal in Japan than home consoles while also admitting that recent home consoles haven't exactly been putting their best foot forward for the market.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Actually, we do since many months ago, for the games that we can gather data about.

Just to pointing out in NPD we don't talk about PC ( we don't talk about much without leaks ) because of lack of info .
Hell we don't even know which console sold the most of the game now .
If we got data like MC thread for NPD you can be certain we would talk PC market .

Actually you guys are right. I should say we dont focus. We have been getting PC sales from steam and such for a few months. Just not publisher specific stores.

I agree in the lacking data part. I ak trying to highlight that not discussing it doesn't mean we ignore the presense of it.

 

[ethomaz]

If switch sells 4m next year it will be a handheld, if not a home console.

It has the sales potential of combined handheld and console market... it is a hybrid like you said.

PS4 is a console only... sales come from the potential console market.

3DS is a portable only... sales come from the potential handheld market.

 

[Datschge]

But does that matter to this arguement though? Its a comparison between what two products can sell.

If you want to take that comparison in isolation you can build fantasy teams and betting business around that, but dedicated device gaming business will continue sliding down the downward slope.

 

[Fularu]

It has the sales potential of combined handheld and console market... it is a hybrid like you said.

PS4 is a console only.

3DS is a portable only.

So it will sell 6 million units (4 for the handheld side and 2 for the home console side since those two exist in a vacuum and don't overlap one bit)

 

[test_account]

I think you can concede that handhelds hold more appeal in Japan than home consoles while also admitting that recent home consoles haven't exactly been putting their best foot forward for the market.

I agree. I think this is exactly the point that was being made in the very begining.

If you want to take that comparison in isolation you can build fantasy teams and betting business around that, but dedicated device gaming business will continue sliding down the downward slope.

I think there is a misunderstand here. There is no isolation, its just a question about what type of system that has the most sales potential, a console like system or a portable like system.

 

[ethomaz]

So it will sell 6 million units (4 for the handheld side and 2 for the home console side since those two exist in a vacuum and don't overlap one bit)

Wut? You did read what I said? I even give examples lol

In a dumb example...

Group A: 150 potential buyers only buys portables.
Group B: 50 potential buyers only buys consoles.
Group C: 250 potential buyers buys either portables or consoles.

You have clear different markets for potential sales for portables (400 dudes) and consoles (300 dudes).

What you says is that everybody that bought a PS4 is a potential 3DS buyer... that is not true... and vice-versa... but for Switch everybody that bought a PS4 and everybody that bought a 3DS is a potential buyer.

 

[Datschge]

I think there is a misunderstand here. There is no isolation, its just a question about what type of system that has the most sales potential, a console like system or a portable like system.

In Japan this hasn't been a question for near a decade anymore.

 

[test_account]

Sales potential depends on many things, something that can sell great at one system can bomb at another, it's not a one system answer.

Thats very true, but in a more broader term, i would say that portable has a bigger chance. Thats what we've seen from historical data at least.

In Japan this hasn't been a question for near a decade anymore.

So what is your opinion on what the answer is?

 

[Fdkn]

but dedicated device gaming business will continue sliding down the downward slope.

So what? if we want to really be that objective, that doesn't matter because games are still being made, money spending is still increasing and people are wasting their time more than ever.

While we are at it, current mobile games are not only sustitutive, but comparable in gameplay in many genres to their handheld counterparts, and they are as portable and much more convenient, while mobile is not able to replicate console experiences yet (it may in the future, I guess).

So again, why one line is fine but the other isn't?

 

[Datschge]

So what is the answer?

You seriously don't know it?

 

[Fularu]

Wut? You did read what I said? I even give examples lol

Yes I did. I just applied your wrong logic to show you that your examples are wrong.

Those markets don't exist in a vacuum and the PS4 won't stop beeing a wreck in Japan just because you're arbitrarily deciding that "now" selling sub 2 million units in a year is "fantastic"

 

[test_account]

You seriously don't know it?

I'm asking for your opinion on it, just to establish understanding related to the first arguement that was made in this discussion.

 

[Chris1964]

I'm ready for some huge Dragon Quest XI numbers coming from the different but combined potential console market and potential handheld market like so many multi PS4/PSV/PS3 games before.

 

[Datschge]

So what?

People pretending about caring about home consoles join the Japan sales threads but don't care whether it's any sustainable. Zombies partying on the graveyard.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Do people think consoles can barely sell over 2 million a year in Japan because they are consoles and that makes them fundamentally unappealing? Cause the last few consoles in Japan have been thoroughly unappealing products for the market imo. I don't think 10 million is the ceiling. I think since the Wii the systems have sucked ass for the market. Handhelds also have a part to do with that but the WiiU being a terrible product isn't solely due to being a console.

 

[schuelma]

Do people think consoles can barely sell over 2 million a year in Japan because they are consoles and that makes them fundamentally unappealing? Cause the last few consoles in Japan have been thoroughly unappealing products for the market imo. I don't think 10 million is the ceiling. I think since the Wii the systems have sucked ass for the market. Handhelds also have a part to do with that but the WiiU being a terrible product isn't solely due to being a console.

Right that's the point I've been attempting to make. PS4 sold like horribly at first because it didn't have software appealing to Japan- not some arbitrary designation as a home console.

Wii U..well we know what happened with Wii U.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm ready for some huge Dragon Quest XI numbers coming from the different but combined potential console market and potential handheld market like so many multi PS4/PSV/PS3 games before.

I'm sure there will be the three groups I listed like always happened.

Group A: These that will only buy the 3DS version.
Group B: These that will only buy the PS4 version.
Group C: These that will buy both.

Gamers that doesn't play on consoles won't buy the PS4 version and vice-versa... these are two different markets.

The fact it is releasing in a handheld and console is to increase the sales potential.

 

[Datschge]

I'm asking for your opinion on it, just to establish understanding related to the first arguement that was made in this discussion.

There is no opinion. Portable software sales beat console software sale since a decade in Japan (and that's not including mobile).

 

[Chris1964]

I'm sure there will be the three groups I listed like always happened.

Group A: These that will only buy the 3DS version.
Group B: These that will only buy the PS4 version.
Group C: These that will buy both.

Gamers that doesn't play on consoles won't buy the PS4 version and vice-versa... these are two different markets.

I give up

 

[D.Lo]

Do people think consoles can barely sell over 2 million a year in Japan because they are consoles and that makes them fundamentally unappealing? Cause the last few consoles in Japan have been thoroughly unappealing products for the market imo. I don't think 10 million is the ceiling. I think since the Wii the systems have sucked ass for the market. Handhelds also have a part to do with that but the WiiU being a terrible product isn't solely due to being a console.

Exactly the point I made last page. Make a well priced, non-stupid home console that serves the needs of the Japanese market and watch people line up. Which is literally what is happening right now with the Switch. Of course haters will then claim it's a handheld only...

 

[test_account]

There is no opinion. Portable software sales beat console software sale since a decade in Japan (and that's not including mobile).

Yes, and that was the first arguement. Portable gaming overall has been more popular, therefor have had a bigger sales potiential overall in general compared to consoles. I dont see whats being argued against here? Not trying to be rude, honestly wondering.