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[Matlock]

...at 30 FPS. So far, it's the best steady framerate around, leaving quite a bit of computing power for the graphics and physics which make the games that much more immersive.

60 FPS is just not neccessary.

 

[Gregory]

...

 

[DarienA]

This should be an interesting thread.

 

[sprsk]

frame rate is so much more important than filling the screen with special effects. take kotor for instance, shitty frame rate. Game made my physically sick, no matter how pretty the game was it wasnt impressive at all because it wasnt consistant.

 

[BuddyC]

the first cull of NeoGAF.

 

[Matlock]

it wasnt impressive at all because it wasnt consistant.

*ding*

Consistant is king.

 

[jakershaker]

omg omg games in 30 fps make me cry...just like sticking sharp object in my eyes!!!!!!


seriously some racers need 60 fps not every game out there as some claims...

 

[Gorgie]

...at 60 FPS. So far, it's the best steady framerate around, leaving enough computing power for the graphics and physics which help make the games that much more immersive, but nothing ruins disbelieve like 30 FPS. Especially in reaction driven gameplay like fighting, racing, platforming, and first person shooting, 60 FPS really helps make the game that much better.

60 FPS is neccessary for the majority of games, and should be the new goal for every game next gen.

Fixed.

 

[bob_arctor]

...at 30 FPS. So far, it's the best steady framerate around, leaving quite a bit of computing power for the graphics and physics which make the games that much more immersive.

60 FPS is just not neccessary.

Rallisport Challenge 2 laughs at this statement. Makes it obsolete even.

 

[Demigod Mac]

Horrid scanline image-tearing often occurs with titles locked at 30 fps. The jerky shifting of objects when rotating the camera is especially annoying. Pop in Halo or Crimson Skies for a nice example of why 30 fps is too low a standard.

 

[The Faceless Master]

...

exactly.

 

[jedimike]

FPS whores make baby Jesus cry...

edit: FPS = Framer per Second not first person shooter

 

[Matlock]

Horrid scanline image-tearing often occurs with titles locked at 30 fps. The jerky shifting of objects when rotating the camera is especially annoying. Pop in Halo or Crimson Skies for a nice example of why 30 fps is too low a standard.

Nice try, but Jak II ran at 60 FPS, and there was noticable screen tearing. Worse than the mostly un-noticable stuff in Halo.

 

[IJoel]

The following list would satisfy me:

Arcade racing games: 60 or 30 fps depending on the level of detail
Simulation racing games: 60 fps

Fast Paced FPS: 60 fps (e.g. Timesplitters)
Slower Paced FPS: 30 fps (e.g. Halo)

Platform, Puzzle, Action, RPG games: 30 fps

 

[radios shipping overview]

Wherever consistent framerates happen to settle (I'd prefer 60fps), tearing must go away. It's an awful shortcut that's no better than a jittery, inconsistent framerate (which it is, really - just faked to a fixed rate).

 

[Kiriku]

There's no reason to say that ALL developers should lock ALL of their games at 30 fps. In some genres, it would be like taking a step back. Just about all racing games nowadays are usually locked at 60, with framedrops so small you hardly notice it.

Also, FPS games SHOULD be locked at 60 fps. But some developers don't seem to realize the importance of this.

But I guess for people who don't notice much of a difference between 30 and 60 fps, it's a different case.

 

[GigaDrive]

Matlock (hehe, pun!) I agree with your post, right up until you said 30fps. I think games should at least be locked at either 60fps or 30fps depending on the detail needed. while i would like 60fps in ALL games, i could tolerate some games at 30fps, the rest, at 60fps.

it is technically possible to lock all games at 60fps IF the hardware and or API has that feature. the Sega Model 3 arcade board with twin Real3D Pro-1000 GPUs had this feature, to lock the framerate (aka update rate aka refresh rate) at either 60fps or 30fps. SEGA chose to use the 60fps option. as for the older Model 2 board, all but 1 Model 2 game (Line Of Fire) ran at 60fps.



with like 1 exception, all Model 2, System 22, Super System 22, Model 3, System 23 and i think most NAOMI/NAOMI2 games were locked at 60fps. with console graphics tech blowing arcade systems out of the water, (most arcade systems are now console varients)
until NAOMI 3 arrives, it would have been possible in THIS generation to have a feature either in hardware or software or both, that locks the framerate at 60fps. with Model 3, sure, you can't use more polygons or effects than the system allows at 60fps, obviously. Model 3 could do ALL of its hirewired graphics features with 60fps. you just cannot exceed the polygon per second or polygon per frame performance. but that is true of consoles anyway.

in a nutshell, I would GLADLY sacrifice some detail and effects to get a solid consistant 60fps in all games. with the option to do 30fps when more polygons per frame are desired. and btw, this talk about 60fps is NOT graphics whorism. framerate directly effects GAMEPLAY.

Horrid scanline image-tearing often occurs with titles locked at 30 fps. The jerky shifting of objects when rotating the camera is especially annoying. Pop in Halo or Crimson Skies for a nice example of why 30 fps is too low a standard.

Yes, exactly, I agree. Thank You!

 

[Dave Long]

60 fps or else!

 

[Kiriku]

60 fps or else!

Unless.

 

[BuddyC]

60 fps or else GAF will bitch!

fixed.

 

[clipunderground]

The difference between a locked 60fps and 30fps framerate is quite large IMO.
I would hope keeping the it locked at 60 next gen wouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[GigaDrive]

The difference between a locked 60fps and 30fps framerate is quite large IMO.

word.

respect.


your opinion is shared by many, including myself

 

[dark10x]

No, 60 fps should remain the goal.

There is a massive difference between 30 fps and 60 fps (both locked)...

The fact that some people are unable to tell the difference is not a good enough reason to forget 60. It adds a LOT to the polish of a game and actually improves playability.

 

[jarrod]

Ewww!! Nobody wants a 30fps VF5.

 

[akascream]

Amen. Every game should be as buttery smooth as Metroid Prime and Fzero.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Not this topic again!

 

[bob_arctor]

The best way to see the night/day difference is to play Rallisport Challenge 2 in its 60fps glory, then view a replay of your race, which is 30 fps. It's like someone took a bucket of vaseline and gooped it all over the TV screen.

 

[Pimpbaa]

60 fps is nice for fighters and racing games. But for most other genres it just isn't necessary. Especially for something like a RPG, where the resources are much better spent on graphic detail than the framerate.

 

[shpankey]

The best way to see the night/day difference is to play Rallisport Challenge 2 in its 60fps glory, then view a replay of your race, which is 30 fps. It's like someone took a bucket of vaseline and gooped it all over the TV screen.

This man ^^^ knows what he's talking about!

 

[GigaDrive]

I agree, RPGs at 30fps is alright. not that i wouldnt love 60fps, but....

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I agree... But for the last 2 gens I've been saying that and it's still an issue.

What I would really like is for console devs to give users the option to turn certain frame chugging effects off to give us the option between 30 and 60.

A game needs to look damn good for a dev to settle w/ 30fps IMO.

It's like someone took a bucket of vaseline and gooped it all over the TV screen.

So then the replays have FSAA?

 

[DarienA]

I agree, RPGs at 30fps is alright. not that i wouldnt love 60fps, but....

I'm not even sure why an RPG would need 60fps... especially a turn based... now in the wave of RRGs were combat takes place a la KOTOR I guess I could see a reason in those...

 

[GigaDrive]

you know, framerate would not BE an issue in this gen, or next gen, if 1st parties took the steps needed to ensure 60fps and 30fps games. The 2 options: 30 and 60 are fine. even the Model 3 board had both options available to it, even though the 60fps option was always used in every game. it worked beautifully. why did arcade game makers: Namco, SEGA, plus a few others, get it right starting in the mid 1990s? ...actually 1993 with Ridge Racer.

30fps or 60fps should be as standard as filtering on every texture. you've got your bilinear, trilinear and aniostropic filtering. nobody uses non-filtered textures anymore. there should not be any 15-25 fps games or in parts of games. either 30fps or 60fps. period.

It is very extremely irritating, the state of affairs, of fucking framerates. I suppose 1st parties don't care. if they don't care, then it's upto 3rd parties to do what they can to ensure solid framerate. you shouldn't ever have to worry about framerate just like you don't have to worry about pixelated textures/surfaces anymore because everything is at least bilinear filtered.


framerate is probably the single most significant area in which the circa 1996 Model 3 dumps diarrhea all over Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, Xbox.

 

[Gorgie]

Really, next gen, I'd love to start boycotting any game that can't get a locked 60 fps. I'm just afraid I'll then miss out on GTA4, Halo 3, and many other Western developed games as the problem seems to be on their end more than Eastern developed games.

 

[bob_arctor]

So then the replays have FSAA?

Nah. But jeez, is it blurry as hell. Well, maybe that's too strong. Let's just say the IQ is like taking one of those eyeglass exams:

Better like this? (60fps) or this? (30fps).

You immediately know the answer.

 

[Particle Physicist]

The best way to see the night/day difference is to play Rallisport Challenge 2 in its 60fps glory, then view a replay of your race, which is 30 fps. It's like someone took a bucket of vaseline and gooped it all over the TV screen.

why is the replay at 30 ? that seems odd.

 

[bob_arctor]

why is the replay at 30 ? that seems odd.

No idea. But if you actually save it to the harddrive and then view it, it's 60. Odd.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

Graphics next generation will be limited much more by development resources than by hardware specs, so I do expect the great majority of games (by competent developers) to be 60fps if only because it's cheaper than making a 30fps game with twice the detail.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

"just like you don't have to worry about pixelated textures/surfaces anymore because everything is at least bilinear filtered."

which is a bad thing, as filtered low-res textures almost always look worse than pixelated low-res textures.

 

[Gregory]

No idea. But if you actually save it to the harddrive and then view it, it's 60. Odd.

BUSTED!

heh, now you`ve told everybody that you`re playing the pirated version pf RSC2 since the replays are always 30fps in the finished game, saved to the harddrive or not...

 

[Bauer Action Hour]

60 FPS are need for certain genres; all sports games, fighting games, most FPS, certain racing games and some action games. Everywhere else it's kind of superfluous, though certainly nice to see.

 

[SolidSnakex]

60 FPS are need for certain genres; all sports games, fighting games, most FPS, certain racing games and some action games. Everywhere else it's kind of superfluous, though certainly nice to see.

All racers should be 60fps, there's no excuse for anything lower at this point. The only reason a racer wouldn't run at 60fps is if the developer is lazy or just overly obsessed with having the most technically advanced racer on the market.

 

[Bigfoot]

All racers should be 60fps, there's no excuse for anything lower at this point. The only reason a racer wouldn't run at 60fps is if the developer is lazy or just overly obsessed with having the most technically advanced racer on the market.

All FPS games should also be 60 FPS. I think only RPGs and turned based strategy are ok at 30.

 

[Wario64]

F-Zero under 60 FPS just wouldn't be F-Zero

 

[Suikoguy]

I bought PGR2, and its painfull, its easy to tell its 30fps.
Good game, but I would have loved for them to tone down the graphics a tad so it would be 60fps
Developers should work on locking in 60fps!

 

[Demigod Mac]

Nice try, but Jak II ran at 60 FPS, and there was noticable screen tearing. Worse than the mostly un-noticable stuff in Halo.

Ah, but while 60 fps is not an absolute panacea for image tearing, it makes the anomaly far less likely to occur. Even if they do not tear, 30 fps titles have a problem with image stuttering when a camera angle changes rapidly.

Halo on Xbox is almost unbearable to play after having played it on a 60+ fps computer monitor. The onscreen picture looks as if it's being taken through a paper shredder, and objects hop along the screen.

 

[SolidSnakex]

All FPS games should also be 60 FPS. I think only RPGs and turned based strategy are ok at 30.

Yep, games that really don't have full realtime interaction are fine at 30fps. Some developers give into some gamers want for certain visual features even though the sacrifice ends up being the framerate which is never worth it imo.

Last gen it was understandable for games to run under 60fps, there's no real excuse now for fighters, racers and some other genres.

 

[Fusebox]

take kotor for instance, shitty frame rate. Game made my physically sick, no matter how pretty the game was it wasnt impressive at all because it wasnt consistant.

Must be another one of those loopy doopy personal preference threads - in games like Morrowind and Kotor I always appreciate extra detail as a tradeoff for a non-locked frame-rate.

Car games and fps are a different matter though obviously.

 

[Tellaerin]

Next-gen, developers should concentrate mostly on improving AI, rather than dedicating all of a system's processing power to visuals. Gorgeous-looking racing games where the AI cars are barely intelligent enough to find the best line impresses me about as much as framerates locked at 30 FPS impress some of you. (And pushing online gameplay--'you can race against real opponents!'--as a substitute for decent CPU opponents is a cheap cop-out, especially in FPS and racing titles. *coughPGR2cough* When I buy a game like that, I expect decent bot AI out of the box. I'm paying $50 so I don't have to worry about dealing with idiots who want to race around the track backwards or screw up the other players for kicks when I feel like a good race.) Give me opponents that aren't braindead first, then start adding visual effects until you've got the game looking as good as you can without the framerate taking a hit.

 

[Fusebox]

They should release a few versions of each game with emphasis on everyones main preferences.

Halo - The Framerate Edition
Halo - The AI Edition
Halo - The Graphics Whore Edition

I'm also looking forward to:

MGS2 - The Gameplay Edition

and

Phantasy Star Online - The Online Edition