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NHL Off-Season 2013 |OT| Celebrate Good Times Come On

MetatronM

Unconfirmed Member
Are they going to be in the AHL this season?

They're in the AHL right now. They cleared waivers near the start of the offseason.

I still think the Rangers are trying to put together some kind of deal to open up some roster spots and cap space since they're going to be cutting it awfully close on both. Powe, Asham, and Boyle are all potentially movable assets.

Del Zotto could be too depending on how Falk does and how well Staal is recovered. I see that as more of a trade deadline thing, though (if it were to happen at all).
 

yyzjohn

Banned
No one is taking Liles and no one is taking Phaneuf unless they fleece the Leafs. I don't understand why you want to rush Rielly so badly, dmen take longer to develop and the Leafs D is already suspect. Franson is a goner.

Just to address this Franson thing, there's no rush for the Leafs here. He's an RFA and has no power at all. Nonis can wait him out, similar to what Gauthier did to PK who came crawling back at a reduced salary. I'd have no problems with Leafs starting the season with Franson in the stands. They've just signed Paul Ranger who's a capable NHL d-man so not like the sky is falling.

Worst comes to worst opening day:

Phaneuf-Gunnarson
Gardiner-Ranger
Liles-Fraser
Holzer

Not much worse than what they ended last season with and if Liles plays better maybe Franson is trade bait during the season?
 

Samyy

Member
Just to address this Franson thing, there's no rush for the Leafs here. He's an RFA and has no power at all. Nonis can wait him out, similar to what Gauthier did to PK who came crawling back at a reduced salary. I'd have no problems with Leafs starting the season with Franson in the stands. They've just signed Paul Ranger who's a capable NHL d-man so not like the sky is falling.

Worst comes to worst opening day:

Phaneuf-Gunnarson
Gardiner-Ranger
Liles-Fraser
Holzer

Not much worse than what they ended last season with and if Liles plays better maybe Franson is trade bait during the season?

Likes fine to me in comparison to last year, big plus side is no Kostka
I just really need the season to start, I am so freaking bored
 
They're in the AHL right now. They cleared waivers near the start of the offseason.

I still think the Rangers are trying to put together some kind of deal to open up some roster spots and cap space since they're going to be cutting it awfully close on both. Powe, Asham, and Boyle are all potentially movable assets.

Del Zotto could be too depending on how Falk does and how well Staal is recovered. I see that as more of a trade deadline thing, though (if it were to happen at all).

Falk isn't a Del Zotto replacement so I doubt Falk's play will affect whether or not they trade DZ. Staal is ready to go for the season.
 

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Just to address this Franson thing, there's no rush for the Leafs here. He's an RFA and has no power at all. Nonis can wait him out, similar to what Gauthier did to PK who came crawling back at a reduced salary. I'd have no problems with Leafs starting the season with Franson in the stands.
Gauthier hasn't been with the Habs for over a year now, and PK didn't come crawling back, he bought into Bergveins team concept and took less for the benefit of the team in the short term. If he was a really greedy bastard he could have demanded a trade where 29 other teams would have been lining up for him.
 

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
Gauthier hasn't been with the Habs for over a year now, and PK didn't come crawling back, he bought into Bergveins team concept and took less for the benefit of the team in the short term. If he was a really greedy bastard he could have demanded a trade where 29 other teams would have been lining up for him.

I thought he signed the deal because Montreal does those bridge contracts and were sticking to their guns since they've done it with the rest of their core thus far.
 

yyzjohn

Banned
Gauthier hasn't been with the Habs for over a year now, and PK didn't come crawling back, he bought into Bergveins team concept and took less for the benefit of the team in the short term. If he was a really greedy bastard he could have demanded a trade where 29 other teams would have been lining up for him.

Yeah I meant Bergevin. Brain freeze from this fucking summer cold.

You're kidding yourself if you think PK suddenly relented and "bought into" whatever plan Bergvin has though, he realized he had no options and came back at less money than he wanted.
 

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
I thought he signed the deal because Montreal does those bridge contracts and were sticking to their guns since they've done it with the rest of their core thus far.
That's part of what Bergevin was looking for, but the Habs didn't have a lot of cap room last season and needed PK to take a smaller contract so they had some room to move these next two seasons, also part of the reason Cole was traded. Both Markov and Gionta are off the books after this season which will make space for Subban's big contract.

You're kidding yourself if you think PK suddenly relented and "bought into" whatever plan Bergvin has though, he realized he had no options and came back at less money than he wanted.
Are you kidding me? He could have easily asked for a trade and landed a huge contract right away if he had wanted too, all season all he's ever talked about is the team even when he won the Norris. Keep on hating his character even though you have no idea what you're talking about.
 

Acid08

Banned
Pavs got fucking PAID. A little higher than I would have liked (was hoping for closer to 5.5) but he's an amazing player so whatever. Hopefully Jumbo and Marleau are resigned too for a discount. Everyone is pretty much locked up after that.
 

yyzjohn

Banned
Are you kidding me? He could have easily asked for a trade and landed a huge contract right away if he had wanted too, all season all he's ever talked about is the team even when he won the Norris. Keep on hating his character even though you have no idea what you're talking about.

Like no other player ever talks about "the team" while he's on the team. Come on man you can't be this naive. Sure Subban could have asked for a trade, which would have been an incredibly difficult trade to make since the Habs would have demanded a boatload in return. He saw his options and realized his huge payday is now a year away.
 

Socreges

Banned
Like no other player ever talks about "the team" while he's on the team. Come on man you can't be this naive. Sure Subban could have asked for a trade, which would have been an incredibly difficult trade to make since the Habs would have demanded a boatload in return. He saw his options and realized his huge payday is now a year away.
You're underestimating the will of a fan who wants to believe the best of his players.
 
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/20...last-season-hockey-analytics-expert-concludes

When you look at the true talent and real performance of all 30 NHL teams, the Edmonton Oilers were in fact the worst team in the NHL in 2013, concludes hockey analytics expert Rob Vollman in his new book, Rob Vollman’s Hockey Abstract.

“The most likely President’s Trophy winner according to this system is the Ottawa Senators. Despite finishing 12th overall last season, the Ottawa Senators could have finished first in 2012–13, too, had their luck come out a little differently, especially as it related to the health of Erik Karlsson and Jason Spezza.”

It seems a new book on hockey analytics makes some bold predictions. I have some interest in this stuff so it'll be neat to see how accurate this is. Obviously I have some vested interest here as well :lol
 

Curufinwe

Member
Pavs got fucking PAID. A little higher than I would have liked (was hoping for closer to 5.5) but he's an amazing player so whatever. Hopefully Jumbo and Marleau are resigned too for a discount. Everyone is pretty much locked up after that.

It's a weird feeling when one of your team's best players signs a long term contract at just high enough of a cap hit to make you think the team should have been tougher in negotiations.
 

Socreges

Banned
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/20...last-season-hockey-analytics-expert-concludes





It seems a new book on hockey analytics makes some bold predictions. I have some interest in this stuff so it'll be neat to see how accurate this is. Obviously I have some vested interest here as well :lol
Nothing against the Sens. No question they would have done even better with Spezza and Karlsson in the lineup.

But after reading the article, the guy's system sounds like mostly bullshit. He should stick to baseball.
 

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Like no other player ever talks about "the team" while he's on the team. Come on man you can't be this naive. Sure Subban could have asked for a trade, which would have been an incredibly difficult trade to make since the Habs would have demanded a boatload in return. He saw his options and realized his huge payday is now a year away.
It wouldn't have been difficult if he really wanted out, like I said every other team in the league would have been on that.

You're underestimating the will of a fan who wants to believe the best of his players.
Or I'm basing my opinion on watching a kid play for 4 seasons now and noticing the stark contrast in how he carries himself as an athlete and professional which has also been recognized by writers like McGuire and Elliot Friedman. Easy to judge a guy when all you see of him are TSN clips of him yelling at Patcioretty. Obviously I hope for the best for Subban, but I'm not blind to issues he or any other Habs player may have.

Price top 5 goalie.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCVCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK THHHHAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTT

This will be the biggest fucking mistake yhe franchise has made since chossing Redden over Chara and trading Hossa. Lehner is going to be a fucking franchise goalie. FUUUUUCCKKKK I played Xbox with this fucker.
 

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Saying:

Lehner is going to be a fucking franchise goalie.

Is more ridiculous then saying Price is a top 5 goalie when he has already proven he can be in this league.
 

Cake Boss

Banned
lol no its not, seeing how the sens brass think the same thing, otherwise they wouldnt have traded Bishop.

Stats show that he is on the right path of becoming this franchise's #1 goalie, maybe in 2 years time when Anderson's contract is up.
Stats show that Price hasnt been near close to being a top 5 goalie in this league the past 2 seasons. Everyone agrees to this even the Habs fans here, except for you.
 
Buying out Liles would be plain-ass crazy. He and Ranger (together) can probably match Franson's output. And if Franson isn't interested in a Subbanesque bridge deal, then meh, trade him.
 
lol no its not, seeing how the sens brass think the same thing, otherwise they wouldnt have traded Bishop.

Stats show that he is on the right path of becoming this franchise's #1 goalie, maybe in 2 years time when Anderson's contract is up.
Stats show that Price hasnt been near close to being a top 5 goalie in this league the past 2 seasons. Everyone agrees to this even the Habs fans here, except for you.

A mediocre AHL career and 17 NHL games is enough to call someone a potential franchise goalie?

Geez, by that standard, Cory Schneider should just be considered a potential hall of famer.

I don't think Price is at all a top 5 goaltender in this league, and maybe not even a top 10, but I think at this point in his career, he's shown much more franchise potential than Lehner.
 

yyzjohn

Banned
lol no its not, seeing how the sens brass think the same thing, otherwise they wouldnt have traded Bishop.

Stats show that he is on the right path of becoming this franchise's #1 goalie, maybe in 2 years time when Anderson's contract is up.
Stats show that Price hasnt been near close to being a top 5 goalie in this league the past 2 seasons. Everyone agrees to this even the Habs fans here, except for you.

You can't judge shit from a goalie in only 25 games played. Same way as you couldn't claim Price is a legitimate top 5 goalie after 1 season of 72 games where he was great. Look where he is now.
 

Cake Boss

Banned
A mediocre AHL career and 17 NHL games is enough to call someone a potential franchise goalie?

Geez, by that standard, Cory Schneider should just be considered a potential hall of famer.

I don't think Price is at all a top 5 goaltender in this league, and maybe not even a top 10, but I think at this point in his career, he's shown much more franchise potential than Lehner.

A .936SV% and a Calder Cup champion and MVP of the playoffs as a 19 year old is mediocre AHL career right now?

I agree he has a small sample size in his NHL career, but he has shown great potential in other leagues for the management and fans to consider him as the franchise's next #1 goalie.

Also where did I say Price isnt a franchise goalie, I said top hes not top 5.
 

yyzjohn

Banned
A .936SV% and a Calder Cup champion and MVP of the playoffs as a 19 year old is mediocre AHL career right now?

I agree he has a small sample size in his NHL career, but he has shown great potential in other leagues for the management and fans to consider him as the franchise's next #1 goalie.

Also where did I say Price isnt a franchise goalie, I said top hes not top 5.

Price won the Calder Cup too and won the same MVP award that Lehner won.
 
Is more ridiculous then saying Price is a top 5 goalie when he has already proven he can be in this league.

Personally I wouldn't call a goalie who has never won an NHL playoff series or a Vezina top 5, top 10 perhaps. The very best NHL goalies have a fairly consistent and successful track record, that's what sets them apart. Consistency isn't something Price is known for.

Unless you are talking top 5 in skill/potential but that's really hard to rank and very debatable.

Price won the Calder Cup too and won the same MVP award that Lehner won.

The talk about Price is pretty much the same as the talk about Lehner except Lehner is younger.
 

Cake Boss

Banned
Price won the Calder Cup too and won the same MVP award that Lehner won.

Yeah thats why we think hes a potential #1 goalie for us, Price was a top 5 goalie in this league a couple of years ago, but the stats show that he hasnt been that the past few seasons, and thats my argument, I am not saying Lehner is going to be a top 5 goalie, just the franchise's next #1 goalie after Anderson.
 

yyzjohn

Banned
Personally I wouldn't call a goalie who has never won an NHL playoff series or a Vezina top 5, top 10 perhaps. The very best NHL goalies have a fairly consistent and successful track record, that's what sets them apart. Consistency isn't something Price is known for.

Unless you are talking top 5 in skill/potential but that's really hard to rank and very debatable.

I forgot about that. His playoff numbers are bad.
 

Red_Man

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
lol no its not, seeing how the sens brass think the same thing, otherwise they wouldnt have traded Bishop.
Yes it is. Price hasn't played like a top 5 goalie the last two seasons, but he has done so in the past and I've already gone through why it's unreasonable to judge his potential on his last two seasons. If he puts up the same numbers this season I'll gladly say he's a second tier goalie. There's a difference between a #1 goalie and a franchise goalie, franchise goalies are guys like Lunqvist, Price, Miller etc. You saying Lehner will be in that class based on what little NHL play he's had and considering how volatile goalie development can be is more ridiculous then myself claiming Price is a stop 5 goalie in the league even if he hasn't played like one of late.
 

Socreges

Banned
I like how no one acknowledges that Cake Boss turned:

Lehner is going to be a franchise goaltender

into:

Lehner is on the right path to be the franchise's #1 goaltender
 

yyzjohn

Banned
Yeah thats why we think hes a potential #1 goalie for us, Price was a top 5 goalie in this league a couple of years ago, but the stats show that he hasnt been that the past few seasons, and thats my argument, I am not saying Lehner is going to be a top 5 goalie, just the franchise's next #1 goalie after Anderson.

There's a difference between "potential #1 for us" and "a franchise goalie" which implies he'd a stud who could start for any team in the league. Fuck our "franchise #1" up until a few weeks ago was Reimer. *Sigh*

Edit: I have no idea if you ever called Lehner a "franchise goalie" but that's what other are accusing you of. Slow news day.
 

Curufinwe

Member
Personally I wouldn't call a goalie who has never won an NHL playoff series or a Vezina top 5, top 10 perhaps. The very best NHL goalies have a fairly consistent and successful track record, that's what sets them apart. Consistency isn't something Price is known for.

I think he won the first round series against Boston back in 2008.

But no playoff series wins since then.
 

Cake Boss

Banned
I like how no one acknowledges that Cake Boss turned:

Lehner is going to be a franchise goaltender

into:

Lehner is on the right path to be the franchise's #1 goaltender

ibpUN4jSnEgQJU.gif


I stand by my comment, he will be this franchise's #1 goalie in 2 years time.
 
I stand by my comment, he will be this franchise's #1 goalie in 2 years time.

How is that any different than a Habs fan saying Price is a top 5 goalie? Not a whole lot, it's largely wishful thinking than any kind of meaningful analysis. Only difference is Lehner is pretty much a wild card whereas Price has been up and down his NHL career.

You can't predict how Lehner will turn out, no one can. Don't forget that they traded for Bishop to light a fire under Lehner's ass and probably would have kept Bishop if Lehner didn't rebound.

Goalies are the most unpredictable of all players. Right now Lehner has all the makings of a franchise goalie, he's about as solid of a goalie prospect as you can ask for.

He has the skill and ability to be one, whether he does or not no one can really say.
 
17 games does not make an NHL regular.

I think he means he's made the Sens team, he isn't getting sent down to the AHL, nothing more to prove in the AHL. He is good enough to play in the NHL, next question is can he be a #1 (or franchise #1).

I think he won the first round series against Boston back in 2008.

But no playoff series wins since then.

My bad I stand corrected.

Still his playoff history doesn't scream top-5. If you are going to call a goalie top 5 you are putting yourself near Lundqvist and you better have similar performances over the years.
 
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