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[Bungalow Bob]

Exactly how is Wii Sports gameplay different from any other sports game? Just because you play it differently, does not mean the gameplay is different. Why do people not understand this?

Does Zelda: TP (Wii) have more innovative gameplay than Zelda: TP (GC)? Is what you see on your TV different from one version to the next?

This post is so stupid that I´ll have to assume that you no longer play games and only read about them.

In a true sports simulation, someone who has never played a videogame in their life, but is a real life master at a given sport, would destroy someone who is excellent at a videogame of that sport, in that videogame. Wii Sports is a small but incredibly important step on the natural path. It´s obvious, predictalbe innovation - but it´s incredibly important innovation nonetheless.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Who didn't see this coming? Really.

 

[Azelover]

Exactly how is Wii Sports gameplay different from any other sports game? Just because you play it differently, does not mean the gameplay is different. Why do people not understand this?

Does Zelda: TP (Wii) have more innovative gameplay than Zelda: TP (GC)? Is what you see on your TV different from one version to the next?

You're paying too much attention to the output and not enough attention to the input. That's why you don't understand the Wii, ever wonder why Wii Sports looks so primitive despite the hardware being a lot more powerful? It's all about turning the tables, shifting the focus from output to input. The most important thing is how you interact with the game, not how the game responds to you.

 

[Link]

Who didn't see this coming? Really.

Lots of people.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Wow. Wii owners complain about 3rd party games not being designed around the strengths of the Wii, and when one is built from the ground up for the Wii they don't buy it. I realize this is a generalization, so spare me that argument.

Built from the ground up? It's not a title I've been following intently, but it sounded more like a game that was built from ground-up pieces of previous SSX games.

 

[Rhindle]

Fun facts:

Nintendo beat Electronic Arts as the No.1 software publisher for the month. EA has been No. 1 for as long as anyone can remember.

Wii's cumulative tie ratio is almost as high after 4 months as the 360 after 16 months on the market, if you include Wii Sports. The average Wii owner has purchased almost 5 games. I am just amazed that the average person is finding 5 games worth buying, but they are.

 

[vasuba]

Fun facts:

Nintendo beat Electronic Arts as the No.1 software publisher for the month. EA has been No. 1 for as long as anyone can remember.

Wii's cumulative tie ratio is almost as high after 4 months as the 360 after 16 months on the market, if you include Wii Sports. The average Wii owner has purchased almost 5 games. I am just amazed that the average person is finding 5 games worth buying, but they are.

I have 5 Wii games right now.. Zelda,Trauma Center,Madden,Rayman,Red steel and a 6th if you do wii sports.

Its not that hard to find 5-6 good games. I still haven't even picked up the likes of wario ware etc yet and paper mario in a few weeks and on and on.

 

[justchris]

I'm only 31 pages into this thread, but I just had to say something.

EVERYONE SHOULD WANT THE WII TO SUCCEED OVER THE PS3 & 360. EVERYONE.

The reason is simple. Of all 3 consoles, the Wii has the largest potential audience. It targets, fairly equally, hardcore gamers, casual gamers and non-gamers. That last category alone automatically gives them a bigger target audience.

The GC, Xbox & PS2 together sold ~160million systems altogether. Unless the Wii itself sells more systems than that, it's a failure, and we don't want the Wii to be a failure.

The bigger the gaming market is, the more companies and products there is room for in that market. You want bigger, better hardcore games? Then companies need to be able to make much more money on their games. They need a bigger pool of users to sell to. This also means an even stronger growth for independent developers, as they will actually have a chance of making money in such a large market.

The fact of the matter is, a market targeted at the mainstream has more room for successful niche players than a market that is focused only on that niche. Markets that become focused on their core consumer to the exclusion of the masses die.

I mean, come the **** on people, that's what happened to Nintendo with the n64. They focused exclusively on the existing gamer market, and along comes Sony with a new idea and a broader focus, and look who won that little tiff. Now Nintendo has taken a page from Sony and is trying to broaden the market more, while Sony seems more concerned with pushing Blu-ray.

Technological advancement will come regardless of whose sales are greatest, that's a fact of human psychology, the constant push forward. To think that the Wii outselling the competition significantly will somehow halt or reverse technological innovation is blind to reality. To think Sony dropping out of the console race will hurt competition is equally blind to reality. All that means is there's more room for a new player to come in with an even newer idea and steal the show, or at least create a brand new niche that can thrive alongside what's already there. Not that I think Sony will or should drop out, but I'm not going to whine if they do, I'll just wait to see who comes to take their place.

 

[sangreal]

Wii's cumulative tie ratio is almost as high after 4 months as the 360 after 16 months on the market, if you include Wii Sports.

Why do you include the time on the market in this comparison? Tie ratio is a function of software sales vs hardware sales, time has nothing to do with it. If anything, I think consoles tend to launch with higher tie ratios due to the hardcore crowd buying more games

 

[vasuba]

Why do you include the time on the market in this comparison? Tie ratio is a function of software sales vs hardware sales, time has nothing to do with it. If anything, I think consoles tend to launch with higher tie ratios due to the hardcore crowd buying more games

whats hes saying is the wii is selling a ratio of games to hardware in 4 months it took the 360 16 months to reach aka Not only is the wii the fastest selling console ever its moving lots of software fast

 

[tribal24]

I'm only 31 pages into this thread, but I just had to say something.

EVERYONE SHOULD WANT THE WII TO SUCCEED OVER THE PS3 & 360. EVERYONE.

The reason is simple. Of all 3 consoles, the Wii has the largest potential audience. It targets, fairly equally, hardcore gamers, casual gamers and non-gamers. That last category alone automatically gives them a bigger target audience.

The GC, Xbox & PS2 together sold ~160million systems altogether. Unless the Wii itself sells more systems than that, it's a failure, and we don't want the Wii to be a failure.

The bigger the gaming market is, the more companies and products there is room for in that market. You want bigger, better hardcore games? Then companies need to be able to make much more money on their games. They need a bigger pool of users to sell to. This also means an even stronger growth for independent developers, as they will actually have a chance of making money in such a large market.

The fact of the matter is, a market targeted at the mainstream has more room for successful niche players than a market that is focused only on that niche. Markets that become focused on their core consumer to the exclusion of the masses die.

I mean, come the **** on people, that's what happened to Nintendo with the n64. They focused exclusively on the existing gamer market, and along comes Sony with a new idea and a broader focus, and look who won that little tiff. Now Nintendo has taken a page from Sony and is trying to broaden the market more, while Sony seems more concerned with pushing Blu-ray.

Technological advancement will come regardless of whose sales are greatest, that's a fact of human psychology, the constant push forward. To think that the Wii outselling the competition significantly will somehow halt or reverse technological innovation is blind to reality. To think Sony dropping out of the console race will hurt competition is equally blind to reality. All that means is there's more room for a new player to come in with an even newer idea and steal the show, or at least create a brand new niche that can thrive alongside what's already there. Not that I think Sony will or should drop out, but I'm not going to whine if they do, I'll just wait to see who comes to take their place.

the problem is that not everyone wants to game on the wii even if more developers go for it, like you said technological inovations happen but at a price. meaning i would have to buy a wii2(or whatever) by half the time just so it can match the ps3 or 360? i rather have all three systems the market is be enough

 

[AzureNightmare]

Or like a PC upgrade.

Even a PC Upgrade (or overclock in some situations) can yield substantial and noticeable results

 

[sangreal]

whats hes saying is the wii is selling a ratio of games to hardware in 4 months it took the 360 16 months to reach aka Not only is the wii the fastest selling console ever its moving lots of software fast

Well for starters, I'm pretty sure it didn't take 16 months for the 360 to "reach" its current tie ratio, because I believe it was higher at launch. More importantly, again, time has nothing to do with attach ratio. More time means more hardware sold which just means you need to sell more software to maintain the same attach rate. Including time in the equation defeats the entire purpose of the tie ratio measurement (which is to show how software is selling relative to the amount of hardware available)

 

[chibcicylist]

Why do you include the time on the market in this comparison? Tie ratio is a function of software sales vs hardware sales, time has nothing to do with it. If anything, I think consoles tend to launch with higher tie ratios due to the hardcore crowd buying more games

Wii's tie in ratio is actually increasing compared to the launch period.

 

[.dmc]

So when are all our favourite analysts going to do their monthly kneejerk forecast revision? Want to lay bets on how the consensus will run out? Wii:360S3 @ 80million:60mill:40mill?

 

[Rhindle]

Well for starters, I'm pretty sure it didn't take 16 months for the 360 to "reach" its current tie ratio, because I believe it was higher at launch. More importantly, again, time has nothing to do with attach ratio. More time means more hardware sold which just means you need to sell more software to maintain the same attach rate

That's just not true. Tie ratios increase steadily over the course of a console's life cycle. PS2 started with a tie ratio of around 1.5 at launch, and is now up to around 12. So if you're comparing two consoles, you have to compare them at the same stage (same no. of months after launch) in order to have a meaningful comparison.

The 360's tie ratio trajectory was already phenomenal, but the Wii is beating it (which is pretty amazing given the quality of the Wii line-up).

 

[Mr.Potato Head]

Im sure there are quite a few big lumps going on in sony fanboy's throats right now.. but honestly, this is sorta good, why you may ask? It may finally get Sony to drop the price on the ps3. If it were just 100 dollars cheaper... i feel it would sell so much more.

 

[sangreal]

That's just not true. Tie ratios increase steadily over the course of a console's life cycle. PS2 started with a tie ratio of around 1.5 at launch, and is now up to around 12.

Ok, I was wrong about that then, but it wasn't really my point.

The 360's tie ratio trajectory was already phenomenal, but the Wii is beating it (which is pretty amazing given the quality of the Wii line-up).

Perhaps, but Wii Sports and Wii Play, bundled with the Console and Controller skew things significantly

 

[dfyb]

I'm only 31 pages into this thread, but I just had to say something.

EVERYONE SHOULD WANT THE WII TO SUCCEED OVER THE PS3 & 360. EVERYONE.

The reason is simple. Of all 3 consoles, the Wii has the largest potential audience. It targets, fairly equally, hardcore gamers, casual gamers and non-gamers. That last category alone automatically gives them a bigger target audience.

The GC, Xbox & PS2 together sold ~160million systems altogether. Unless the Wii itself sells more systems than that, it's a failure, and we don't want the Wii to be a failure.

The bigger the gaming market is, the more companies and products there is room for in that market. You want bigger, better hardcore games? Then companies need to be able to make much more money on their games. They need a bigger pool of users to sell to. This also means an even stronger growth for independent developers, as they will actually have a chance of making money in such a large market.

The fact of the matter is, a market targeted at the mainstream has more room for successful niche players than a market that is focused only on that niche. Markets that become focused on their core consumer to the exclusion of the masses die.

I mean, come the **** on people, that's what happened to Nintendo with the n64. They focused exclusively on the existing gamer market, and along comes Sony with a new idea and a broader focus, and look who won that little tiff. Now Nintendo has taken a page from Sony and is trying to broaden the market more, while Sony seems more concerned with pushing Blu-ray.

Technological advancement will come regardless of whose sales are greatest, that's a fact of human psychology, the constant push forward. To think that the Wii outselling the competition significantly will somehow halt or reverse technological innovation is blind to reality. To think Sony dropping out of the console race will hurt competition is equally blind to reality. All that means is there's more room for a new player to come in with an even newer idea and steal the show, or at least create a brand new niche that can thrive alongside what's already there. Not that I think Sony will or should drop out, but I'm not going to whine if they do, I'll just wait to see who comes to take their place.

i have a wii and ps3, and i'd much rather the ps3 see success than the wii -- the ps3 has the potential to give me better games, and as a gamer, that's what i want. the wii is already collecting dust and while i'll probably play brawl for years (i still play melee weekly), none of the 2007 wii titles have me as excited as i am for many upcoming ps3 games. the motion sensing isn't the focus of enough games (even from nintendo), and i'm tired of gamecube 1.5 games. i want them to design games around the wiimote, but all they're doing is taking their existing games and designing wiimote functionality for them. i certainly don't regret my wii purchase, but ps3 already gets way more playtime and it looks like that will continue through to 2008.

i'm glad to see the wii successful, but if it's too successful, developers will devote more resources to that platform for the sole purpose of getting more sales, rather than making the best game possible. it's already the case for DS. unless it takes true advantage of the touch screen and/or 2nd screen, i'd rather they make the game on the PSP -- it would be able to be a better game because of it. sadly, fewer developers are willing to develop for PSP... so we get lesser games on DS's barely-3D capabilities. i have a DS so it's not like i'm missing out on games. the games just aren't all they could be.

 

[Link]

Better graphics != Better game

That is all.

 

[dfyb]

Better graphics != Better game

That is all.

and nobody said that. graphics do add to the immersion and enjoyment though, and you can't deny that a more powerful processor can open up new and better gameplay experiences.

 

[justchris]

the problem is that not everyone wants to game on the wii even if more developers go for it, like you said technological inovations happen but at a price. meaning i would have to buy a wii2(or whatever) by half the time just so it can match the ps3 or 360? i rather have all three systems the market is be enough

Read what I'm saying again. I'm not saying the Wii needs to destroy the 360/PS3, I'm saying it needs to outsell them, and outsell the PS2/GC/Xbox combined as well. Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that PS3 sells 45 million systems, 360 sells 50 million, and Wii sells 200 million. That (just barely) accomplishes Nintendo's goal (actually making this generation larger than the previous, something the previous generation failed to do), and still gives the 360 and PS3 a very respectable market, so that those who don't want to play with the Wii don't have to.

Then in the next generation, Nintendo has more incentive to advance technology even more (assuming they can maintain a reasonable price point) for four reasons. First they can spend more money on increasing processing & graphic power because the Wiimote is already established, and will take less money to improve than it did to create. Second, with a larger market, economies of scale come into play even more. Third, technology will already have improved in other, non-gaming related markets, which they can add in with little persistent cost. Fourth, they'll need to continue to differentiate themselves from their competitors, who will try to co-op the Wiimote experience into their own systems to better compete with Nintendo.

Not to mention that Sony and Microsoft will also need to work harder to compete with Nintendo next generation.

 

[bycha]

Funny how everybodys sayin "Sony is a failure" when it's selling faster then 360 WW and it haven't even launched in Europe. PS3 s gonna be ok, with good titles it will show solid numbers.
The truth for Sony here -- you can't come to market last without game that will blow ppls minds. Nintendo clearly understand that.

 

[vasuba]

Funny how everybodys sayin "Sony is a failure" when it's selling faster then 360 WW and it haven't even launched in Europe. PS3 s gonna be ok, with good titles it will show solid numbers.
The truth for Sony here -- you can't come to market last without game that will blow ppls minds. Nintendo clearly understand that.

Sony had a big launch but its initial out the gate fast selling is dropping considerably. its in large supply and sales show people don't care.

360 was scarce and hard to find and the PS3s sales are only like 50K ahead of the 360 at the same time so not a big deal. 360s numbers in the US alone Outsells the PS3 in the US and japan combined.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Fun facts:

Nintendo beat Electronic Arts as the No.1 software publisher for the month. EA has been No. 1 for as long as anyone can remember.

Wii's cumulative tie ratio is almost as high after 4 months as the 360 after 16 months on the market, if you include Wii Sports. The average Wii owner has purchased almost 5 games. I am just amazed that the average person is finding 5 games worth buying, but they are.

I have 7 Wii games currently

 

[justchris]

i have a wii and ps3, and i'd much rather the ps3 see success than the wii -- the ps3 has the potential to give me better games, and as a gamer, that's what i want. the wii is already collecting dust and while i'll probably play brawl for years (i still play melee weekly), none of the 2007 wii titles have me as excited as i am for many upcoming ps3 games. the motion sensing isn't the focus of enough games (even from nintendo), and i'm tired of gamecube 1.5 games. i want them to design games around the wiimote, but all they're doing is taking their existing games and designing wiimote functionality for them. i certainly don't regret my wii purchase, but ps3 already gets way more playtime and it looks like that will continue through to 2008.

i'm glad to see the wii successful, but if it's too successful, developers will devote more resources to that platform for the sole purpose of getting more sales, rather than making the best game possible. it's already the case for DS. unless it takes true advantage of the touch screen and/or 2nd screen, i'd rather they make the game on the PSP -- it would be able to be a better game because of it. sadly, fewer developers are willing to develop for PSP... so we get lesser games on DS's barely-3D capabilities. i have a DS so it's not like i'm missing out on games. the games just aren't all they could be.

These PS3 games you're looking forward to, what are they, and what are they doing (besides improved graphics) that the Wii is suddenly incapable of?

And no, games that don't use the touch screen or dual screens would not necessarily be better on the PSP than the DS. The DS still has a better D-pad than the PSP and lower load times. Games that can benefit from analog control would probably be better on the PSP though.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Sony had a big launch but its initial out the gate fast selling is dropping considerably. its in large supply and sales show people don't care.

360 was scarce and hard to find and the PS3s sales are only like 50K ahead of the 360 at the same time so not a big deal. 360s numbers in the US alone Outsells the PS3 in the US and japan combined.

it's not just that, it's the software situation as well. most 360 owners don't give a shit about if a game is multiplatform, seemingly most PS fans do, outside of Madden. Last year, Fight Night 3 was number 1 in Feb NPD, followed by Call of Duty 2. There were 6 360 games in the top 25 and none of them were by Microsoft. Why would publishers go for a console where their games are shunned?

 

[AniHawk]

I have 7 Wii games currently

My condolences.

Spoiler

I have 8.

 

[dfyb]

These PS3 games you're looking forward to, what are they, and what are they doing (besides improved graphics) that the Wii is suddenly incapable of?

And no, games that don't use the touch screen or dual screens would not necessarily be better on the PSP than the DS. The DS still has a better D-pad than the PSP and lower load times. Games that can benefit from analog control would probably be better on the PSP though.

Lair is probably the best example right now. the biggest draw for the game is the absolutely gigantic scale. http://www.la.gg/upl/1818properlair.jpg. while some of the other games could potentially happen on the wii, it would be at big sacrifices. heavenly sword wouldn't be nearly as cinematic and the environments wouldn't be nearly as impressive. here's a good example though -- compare excitetruck to motorstorm. motorstorm is the next level of racing, not only on a visual standpoint, but on a gameplay standpoint as well. the physics and AI play a huge part -- the visuals add to the experience. as time goes on, and devs have more time to tinker with the ps3 hardware, we'll see more examples of games that wouldn't be possible on last generation hardware. right now devs are playing it relatively safe as they get familiar with the hardware.

and i disagree with your d-pad claim -- i've played fighting games on both DS and PSP, and i'd definitely rather see more fighting games on PSP.

 

[Link]

compare excitetruck to motorstorm. motorstorm is the next level of racing, not only on a visual standpoint, but on a gameplay standpoint as well. the physics and AI play a huge part -- the visuals add to the experience.

Oh man, now you've done it. You just opened the floodgates.

 

[dfyb]

Oh man, now you've done it. You just opened the floodgates.

not if people don't make stupid arguments that have little to do with what's being discussed. whether or not they like either game is irrelevant. motorstorm is something that couldn't happen on last gen hardware. excite truck could probably be done on ps2 (obviously without the tilt control).

 

[Eteric Rice]

:lol

I'm sorry, but.

:lol

 

[davepoobond]

cause you bought a PS3 to play brand new Wii/ps2 games amirite

actually, yeah, kind of.

 

[justchris]

Lair is probably the best example right now. the biggest draw for the game is the absolutely gigantic scale. http://www.la.gg/upl/1818properlair.jpg. while some of the other games could potentially happen on the wii, it would be at big sacrifices. heavenly sword wouldn't be nearly as cinematic and the environments wouldn't be nearly as impressive. here's a good example though -- compare excitetruck to motorstorm. motorstorm is the next level of racing, not only on a visual standpoint, but on a gameplay standpoint as well. the physics and AI play a huge part -- the visuals add to the experience. as time goes on, and devs have more time to tinker with the ps3 hardware, we'll see more examples of games that wouldn't be possible on last generation hardware. right now devs are playing it relatively safe as they get familiar with the hardware.

The thing about scale is that it's limitations are pretty directly correlated to how many polygons & effects you try to push. Imagine, if you will, a game who's graphical prowess and art design is limited to what you see in Wii Sports. I guarantee you they could make a game on a scale that would dwarf Lair, and could have the same play mechanics and probably the same control scheme as well, and the Wii's processor wouldn't even hiccup. Of course, yes, losing the graphical prettiness of Lair would definitely be a sacrifice (as a side note, Lair is one of the few games coming this year for PS3 I'm actually interested in).

As for your comparison of Motorstorm to Excite Truck, you're comparing apples and oranges here, literally. Excite Truck is not designed to be like Motorstorm. Wii is easily capable of the level of AI & Physics found in Motorstorm, but Excite Truck was not the game to push either of those. Excite Truck isn't really a racing game, it's a performance game, it's difficulty has a lot to do with course design and almost nothing to do with opponent AI, increasing the AI would be pretty much useless to the game because of this design choice. It could definitely have used better physics, but the physics it does use are pretty impressive, even when compared to Motorstorm. The fact the physics of the game are in no way realistic doesn't mean they're less complex.

The visuals do add to the experience, yes, but if you're willing to sacrifice the visuals, then the Wii could do Motorstorm with little effort.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

The thing about scale is that it's limitations are pretty directly correlated to how many polygons & effects you try to push. Imagine, if you will, a game who's graphical prowess and art design is limited to what you see in Wii Sports. I guarantee you they could make a game on a scale that would dwarf Lair, and could have the same play mechanics and probably the same control scheme as well, and the Wii's processor wouldn't even hiccup. Of course, yes, losing the graphical prettiness of Lair would definitely be a sacrifice (as a side note, Lair is one of the few games coming this year for PS3 I'm actually interested in).

As for your comparison of Motorstorm to Excite Truck, you're comparing apples and oranges here, literally. Excite Truck is not designed to be like Motorstorm. Wii is easily capable of the level of AI & Physics found in Motorstorm, but Excite Truck was not the game to push either of those. Excite Truck isn't really a racing game, it's a performance game, it's difficulty has a lot to do with course design and almost nothing to do with opponent AI, increasing the AI would be pretty much useless to the game because of this design choice. It could definitely have used better physics, but the physics it does use are pretty impressive, even when compared to Motorstorm. The fact the physics of the game are in no way realistic doesn't mean they're less complex.

The visuals do add to the experience, yes, but if you're willing to sacrifice the visuals, then the Wii could do Motorstorm with little effort.

Just Chris is being just goofy and I love Excite Truck.

 

[Eteric Rice]

The thing about scale is that it's limitations are pretty directly correlated to how many polygons & effects you try to push. Imagine, if you will, a game who's graphical prowess and art design is limited to what you see in Wii Sports. I guarantee you they could make a game on a scale that would dwarf Lair, and could have the same play mechanics and probably the same control scheme as well, and the Wii's processor wouldn't even hiccup. Of course, yes, losing the graphical prettiness of Lair would definitely be a sacrifice (as a side note, Lair is one of the few games coming this year for PS3 I'm actually interested in).

As for your comparison of Motorstorm to Excite Truck, you're comparing apples and oranges here, literally. Excite Truck is not designed to be like Motorstorm. Wii is easily capable of the level of AI & Physics found in Motorstorm, but Excite Truck was not the game to push either of those. Excite Truck isn't really a racing game, it's a performance game, it's difficulty has a lot to do with course design and almost nothing to do with opponent AI, increasing the AI would be pretty much useless to the game because of this design choice. It could definitely have used better physics, but the physics it does use are pretty impressive, even when compared to Motorstorm. The fact the physics of the game are in no way realistic doesn't mean they're less complex.

The visuals do add to the experience, yes, but if you're willing to sacrifice the visuals, then the Wii could do Motorstorm with little effort.

Besides, F-Zero GX would beat the **** out of Motorstorm in terms of difficulty.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=15506

Analyst: Next-Gen Underperforming; PS3 Price Cut 'Critical'

Sony and Microsoft can spin the results any way they want, but Deutsche Bank analyst Jeetil Patel says that the sales are just flat out disappointing, and that in Sony's case a price cut is "critical" in order to stimulate the market.

Following the release of the February video game data late yesterday, Deutsche Bank analyst Jeetil Patel has weighed in on the performance of the next-gen consoles [When are we going to stop calling it next-gen? – Ed.], labeling sales for the new platforms as "poor."

"Next-gen hardware sell-through of 700K units in Feb-07 brought its total HW installed base to 8.0mn in the US, still 30% less than the prior cycle at 11.2mn units at equivalent stages. Xbox 360 (230K) and PS3 (130K) unit sales were below expectations of 250K-300K and 200K respectively. Retail checks reveal that ample supply exists, suggesting a demand problem for next-gen consoles," explained Patel.

For the Wii, however, demand doesn't appear to be a problem. If anything, it's Nintendo trying to keep up with demand that's a problem. "With Wii shortages likely in the next 1-2 quarters (and potential PS3 re-allocations to Europe), we are concerned that next-gen sales could further disappoint," said Patel.

With PS3 sales not meeting expectations, at this point Patel said that a price cut on the hardware is "critical," but the analyst does not foresee that happening until at least the start of Sony's next fiscal year (April), and even that is a "long-shot," Patel stated.

To put the PS3's situation in context, Patel said, "PS3 consoles are available at retail but sales are lackluster. Its 130K units sold in February was less than Xbox 360 sales last year (160K) and even less than the original Xbox sales of 140K in Feb-2002."

Deutsche Bank was equally unimpressed with the Xbox 360, however. "Particularly disappointing is Xbox 360 HW sales of 230K in February, which puts its installed base at 5mn or in-line to the original Xbox which was an unproven console and faced substantial competition from the PS2," Patel noted.

Nintendo really has taken the lion's share of the market recently. In fact, combining the 485K sales of the DS with the 335K sales of the Wii shows that Nintendo grabbed 54 percent of the market in February. Nintendo of America President Reggie Fils-Aime has labeled the appeal of the Wii as "explosive" and he reiterated that Nintendo is doing the best it can to alleviate shortages. "... there are hundreds of thousands of consumers still waiting to get their hands on the system so we continue to both ship more units to retail every week and work non-stop to build capacity," he said.

 

[gimmmick]

Man I can't wait to see what happens a year from now. :lol

 

[MightyHedgehog]

You know, if I'm MS, I would drop the Premium to $300 now and force Sony's hand into a position where they have to take the hit or stay. Of course, that doesn't sound amazingly smart business-wise, but it would be ballsy and informative just how much sales might change for that month if MS were to market and sell their system for one month at $100 less. Imagine the whole month of May at $100 less as a huge promotion.

 

[dfyb]

The thing about scale is that it's limitations are pretty directly correlated to how many polygons & effects you try to push. Imagine, if you will, a game who's graphical prowess and art design is limited to what you see in Wii Sports. I guarantee you they could make a game on a scale that would dwarf Lair, and could have the same play mechanics and probably the same control scheme as well, and the Wii's processor wouldn't even hiccup. Of course, yes, losing the graphical prettiness of Lair would definitely be a sacrifice (as a side note, Lair is one of the few games coming this year for PS3 I'm actually interested in).

As for your comparison of Motorstorm to Excite Truck, you're comparing apples and oranges here, literally. Excite Truck is not designed to be like Motorstorm. Wii is easily capable of the level of AI & Physics found in Motorstorm, but Excite Truck was not the game to push either of those. Excite Truck isn't really a racing game, it's a performance game, it's difficulty has a lot to do with course design and almost nothing to do with opponent AI, increasing the AI would be pretty much useless to the game because of this design choice. It could definitely have used better physics, but the physics it does use are pretty impressive, even when compared to Motorstorm. The fact the physics of the game are in no way realistic doesn't mean they're less complex.

The visuals do add to the experience, yes, but if you're willing to sacrifice the visuals, then the Wii could do Motorstorm with little effort.

you don't seem to know what you're talking about. processing power plays a much bigger part than you think -- it's NOT just about rendering polygons. it's the very reason we hadn't seen games like lair and motorstorm UNTIL NOW (visuals aside).

this argument is reminding me of one i had about the DS not being able to do a GTA game like the PSP can without significant sacrifices in scale, gameplay, and of course visuals. it is tiring when someone doesn't understand what it takes to run a game.

especially with today's games relying heavily on physics, the processor is becoming more and more vital.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

You know, if I'm MS, I would drop the Premium to $300 now and force Sony's hand into a position where they have to take the hit or stay. Of course, that doesn't sound amazingly smart business-wise, but it would be ballsy and informative just how much sales might change for that month if MS were to market and sell their system for one month at $100 less. Imagine the whole month of May at $100 less as a huge promotion.

This could be a reason as to why they are holding at $400, they don't want Sony to jump with them. It's feasible.

 

[Kafel]

Nintendo beat Electronic Arts as the No.1 software publisher for the month. EA has been No. 1 for as long as anyone can remember.

Where can you read that ?

 

[nextgeneration]

Following the release of the February video game data late yesterday, Deutsche Bank analyst Jeetil Patel has weighed in on the performance of the next-gen consoles [When are we going to stop calling it next-gen? – Ed.], labeling sales for the new platforms as "poor."

"Next-gen hardware sell-through of 700K units in Feb-07 brought its total HW installed base to 8.0mn in the US, still 30% less than the prior cycle at 11.2mn units at equivalent stages. Xbox 360 (230K) and PS3 (130K) unit sales were below expectations of 250K-300K and 200K respectively. Retail checks reveal that ample supply exists, suggesting a demand problem for next-gen consoles," explained Patel.

And why is this surprising? Umm, could it be because Microsoft and Sony decided to price their systems substantially higher than their previous generation systems? This generation will never match last generation in terms of numbers, unless we start to see significant price cuts and FAST.

 

[justchris]

you don't seem to know what you're talking about. processing power plays a much bigger part than you think -- it's NOT just about rendering polygons. it's the very reason we hadn't seen games like lair and motorstorm UNTIL NOW (visuals aside).

this argument is reminding me of one i had about the DS not being able to do a GTA game like the PSP can without significant sacrifices in scale, gameplay, and of course visuals. it is tiring when someone doesn't understand what it takes to run a game.

especially with today's games relying heavily on physics, the processor is becoming more and more vital.

Umm, I do know what I'm talking about here, and I'm well aware of what part processing power plays. The reasons we haven't seen games like Lair until now is mostly a result of difficulty. It is certainly easier to do something on that scale with a faster processor, but it's not neccesarily impossible on a slower one.

And maybe I'm missing something in what Motorstorm is doing physics wise, because, for the most part, physics calculations are simple. The processing cost comes from how many objects you're doing calculations on at once. This is why the most taxing physics applications are ones that deal with particle physics, like explosions and such, because you're having to deal with so many different objects and their individual vectors calculated all at once. So which specific application of physics is being done in Motorstorm that could not be done, for instance, on the Gamecube?

Edit: Oh wow, I realized right before I left work that this didn't come out right. Technically, from a gameplay standpoint, almost all physics calculations have to be treated as particle physics, because a racecar (using Motorstorm or Excite Truck as an example) counts as a particle, no matter how big it is.

Calculating physics for multiple particles that don't interact with each other progresses linearly in difficulty. Processing physics for multiple particles that do interact progresses exponentially. This is why it's trivial to process physics for 30 cars on a race course, as opposed to processing physics for 100,000 separate particles in an explosion.

Edit 2: Also, I'm not saying that the PS3 & 360 aren't capable of more than the Wii, all I'm saying is that they've yet to really do anything, non-graphically, that the Wii can't do. Which has no bearing on my original argument, really, but meh.

 

[pswii60]

EVERYONE SHOULD WANT THE WII TO SUCCEED OVER THE PS3 & 360. EVERYONE.

No.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Kids don't love.........

 

[AniHawk]

No.

Especially you.

 

[{Mike}]

It's only a matter of time before Sony sell more consoles. Judging a success is a matter of years, not 4 months. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are all placing pieces on the chessboard and advantages vs. disadvantages may or may not mean anything for the final chapter of this game.

 

[marc^o^]

Sure and in some years everyone will have a Mercedes because it's so awesome.
Price is a factor, no matter how good your product is.

 

[Any1]

Better graphics != Better game

That is all.

extremely powerful consoles != only better graphics

That is all.