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[liuelson]

Take a look at the OP. Do you see how many games 360 owner purchased last month? Now imagine if Wii owners bought games at the same rate.

Actually, even ignoring games outside of the top 20, there's a clue within the top 20 of the apparent difference between X360 userbase and Wii userbase.

And no, the answer is not that the Wii userbase doesn't buy as many games as the X360 userbase. It's that they buy games in a different pattern.

Do you see the clue?

Edit: @Shaheed - the NPD graph and the MS press release seem contradictory; the NPD graph is clearly a cumulative sales graph showing Wii 3rd party sales > X360 3rd party sales. Is it launch aligned or something else?

 

[Touchdown]

 

[Shaheed79]

Maybe I missed understood but it sounded like you said they should be made exclusive for the market leader. Which to me would just make the same scenario we have now. But I probably read that wrong,

No I never said they should be exclusive to the market leader that would be stupid. What I was saying was the quality 3rd party games are currently being split like this.
90% HD Consoles
10% Wii
That number is going to bankrupt the industry if it continues. Now if we look at the percentage of consoles sales that the Wii commanded in November and compare it to the percentage of quality 3rd party games it received then the problem becomes obvious.

 

[d[-_-]b]

Edit: @Shaheed - the NPD graph and the MS press release seem contradictory; the NPD graph is clearly a cumulative sales graph showing Wii 3rd party sales > X360 3rd party sales. Is it launch aligned or something else?

Yes it's launch aligned, hence why it starts at 0 weeks for all 3 consoles.

 

[vanguardian1]

Edit: @Shaheed - the NPD graph and the MS press release seem contradictory; the NPD graph is clearly a cumulative sales graph showing Wii 3rd party sales > X360 3rd party sales. Is it launch aligned or something else?

Yes, it's launched aligned.

Edit : Damnit, beaten by 1 minute!

 

[Shaheed79]

Edit: @Shaheed - the NPD graph and the MS press release seem contradictory; the NPD graph is clearly a cumulative sales graph showing Wii 3rd party sales > X360 3rd party sales. Is it launch aligned or something else?

Probably launch aligned but that has nothing to do with the point I was making. The HUGE difference in quality between the HD 3rd party games and the Wii 3rd party games make the Wii numbers look that much more impressive. Sure the 360 is winning in 3rd party sales overall but look at what they have to sell for 360/PS3 vs. the Wii. It's like comparing the movie ticket sales of Dark Knight to X-Files I want to Believe lol.

 

[liuelson]

Yes it's launch aligned, hence why it starts at 0 weeks for all 3 consoles.

OK, so we know:

1. X360 3rd party > Wii 3rd party LTD
2. X360 3rd party > Wii 3rd party since Wii launch
3. Wii 3rd party > X360 3rd party launch aligned
4. Wii 3rd party > X360 3rd party monthly, in some months of 2008 (probably including Nov based on MS omission in their press release)

Edit: @Shaheed - I don't think you need to make the point at all. Wii appears to be selling more 3rd party software right now. X360's favorable statistics are all cumulative (either LTD or since Wii launch), and rely in some sense on its 1 year lead.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Actually, even ignoring games outside of the top 20, there's a clue within the top 20 of the apparent difference between X360 userbase and Wii userbase.

And no, the answer is not that the Wii userbase doesn't buy as many games as the X360 userbase. It's that they buy games in a different pattern.

Do you see the clue?

It sounds like you think I'm saying Wii owners don't buy games. What I'm saying is that 360 owners buy games faster. They run out and pick up all the new releases the day they drop and then do it again the next month. Wii owners (so far) seem to pick up games at a far more leisurely pace and, based on the revenue that Microsoft loves to tout, at discount prices.

Nintendo can't expect to release Wii2 and light the world on fire again. They'll have to raise the bar or risk losing their new audience. If you don't believe me then maybe you'll believe Iwata-san:

"Core gamers are very important for us because they are enthusiastic about games and encourage others to play"

 

[Shaheed79]

OK, so we know:

1. X360 3rd party > Wii 3rd party LTD
2. X360 3rd party > Wii 3rd party since Wii launch
3. Wii 3rd party > X360 3rd party launch aligned
4. Wii 3rd party > X360 3rd party monthly, in some months of 2008 (probably including Nov based on MS omission in their press release)

Edit: @Shaheed - I don't think you need to make the point at all. Wii appears to be selling more 3rd party software right now. X360's favorable statistics are all cumulative (either LTD or since Wii launch), and rely in some sense on its 1 year lead.

I disagree and think the point needs to be reiterated every npd we see these results. If that heap of 3rd party crap can sell that much on Wii then imagine if they actually put some effort and their A and AAA teams behind some of their Wii development with some actual marketing.

 

[FrankT]

OK, so we know:

1. X360 3rd party > Wii 3rd party LTD
2. X360 3rd party > Wii 3rd party since Wii launch
3. Wii 3rd party > X360 3rd party launch aligned
4. Wii 3rd party > X360 3rd party monthly, in some months of 2008 (probably including Nov based on MS omission in their press release)

Edit: @Shaheed - I don't think you need to make the point at all. Wii appears to be selling more 3rd party software right now. X360's favorable statistics are all cumulative (either LTD or since Wii launch), and rely in some sense on its 1 year lead.

X360 has been outselling the Wii in the third party department all the way through September for 2008. We have numbers through July NPD for both, which was about a 2 million plus lead at the time. We have hard numbers for Nintendo and a good conservative estimate for 360 YTD through September. Still about a 2 million lead give or take at that point. Unfortunately, we have no real numbers beyond that point. Up until November we know there were 80 plus more third party games released on the system as well.

 

[Jokeropia]

Ubisoft is making games for kids( I believe that kids are part of the core market) and casual games. According to them they are doing well on the Wii and DS

No.

repost:

Again, the 360 has existed for a year longer and had a huge installed base advantage for even more than that, so it's not as impressive as you think it is.

I'm not looking at it as simply a time-based thing (in which case X360 had the hardware majority until November 2007), but by using the "ownership time" stat to help quantify how much a difference it makes.

I know, and I agree that your way is better, my was was just quicker to calculate.

Thousands of cheap shovelware titles will do that.

No, massive userbase will do that. If Wii had gotten third party support comparable to 360's, the difference would likely have been larger.

 

[onipex]

No.

You're right they only expect to do well.

Ubisoft admits that competition from Nintendo franchises can be tough, but publishers have to carefully plan out release strategies, and of course, release products with quality competitive with Nintendo software.

Speaking at the UBS Global Media Conference this week, Ubisoft CFO Alain Martinez explained, "We saw that at the end of this year, there were not so many Nintendo products, and we thought there was a window of opportunity, especially on the Wii [Balance] Board."

Ubisoft expects holiday Wii releases Rayman Raving Rabbids TV Party and Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip to sell 1.5 million and 1 million units worldwide, respectively. Both games are Balance Board-compatible.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Wow, they're blaming competition with Nintendo. :lol

What a bunch of tools. They CAN'T compete with Nintendo if they keep putting out the shit they're putting out.

 

[liuelson]

It sounds like you think I'm saying Wii owners don't buy games. What I'm saying is that 360 owners buy games faster. They run out and pick up all the new releases the day they drop and then do it again the next month. Wii owners (so far) seem to pick up games at a far more leisurely pace

Consider DS sales. Or movies, for that matter. Yes, the rate of purchasing of X360 userbase is front-loaded. But that actually doesn't mean better overall.

and, based on the revenue that Microsoft loves to tout, at discount prices.

There's already a $10 difference in typical MSRP, but even Microsoft seems to be touting cumulative revenue statistics (LTD) rather than monthly v. Wii.

Nintendo can't expect to release Wii2 and light the world on fire again. They'll have to raise the bar or risk losing their new audience.

Actually, I have no idea what to expect for Wii2.

Edit: @Jyettis - is that YTD, or are you saying that X360 3rd party has outsold Wii 3rd party every month in 2008?

 

[JavyOO7]

Nintendo really has to do something with 3rd party support. Then again, they have no incentive to. Thankfully I have my DS whenever the Wii hits a dry spell.

 

[FrankT]

Consider DS sales. Or movies, for that matter. Yes, the rate of purchasing of X360 userbase is front-loaded. But that actually doesn't mean better overall.



There's already a $10 difference in typical MSRP, but even Microsoft seems to be touting cumulative revenue statistics (LTD) rather than monthly v. Wii.



Actually, I have no idea what to expect for Wii2.

Edit: @Jyettis - is that YTD, or are you saying that X360 3rd party has outsold Wii 3rd party every month in 2008?

YTD, do not have monthly break downs unfortunately.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

I disagree and think the point needs to be reiterated every npd we see these results. If that heap of 3rd party crap can sell that much on Wii then imagine if they actually put some effort and their A and AAA teams behind some of their Wii development with some actual marketing.

That crap appeals to a lot of the Wii audience. Your reasoning is incredibly presumptuous, not even mentioning the HD market also includes the PC.

 

[manueldelalas]

Wow, they're blaming competition with Nintendo. :lol

What a bunch of tools. They CAN'T compete with Nintendo if they keep putting out the shit they're putting out.

Add to that that Nintendo gave away to 3rd parties the 2008 holidays; all publishers are kicking their selves in their asses right now (EA more than the others).

I think that holiday 2009 will be the same; nearly no games from Nintendo (will release all of them early in the year to create hype for the console to make it a perfect christmas gift). I expect that 3rd parties will flow the Wii market in holidays 2009 with great games.

 

[Link]

Add to that that Nintendo gave away to 3rd parties the 2008 holidays; all publishers are kicking their selves in their asses right now (EA more than the others).

EA actually blamed the Wii for their poor holiday software sales. So I somehow doubt they're kicking themselves all that much.

 

[liuelson]

That crap appeals to a lot of the Wii audience. Your reasoning is incredibly presumptuous, not even mentioning the HD market also includes the PC.

Not that I can speak for Shaheed79, but I think he's really talking about 3rd party investment. Unfortunately, I don't know if that kind of data is easy to gather.

 

[Shaheed79]

That crap appeals to a lot of the Wii audience. Your reasoning is incredibly presumptuous, not even mentioning the HD market also includes the PC.

The reasoning that quality well made games from 3rd parties talented teams will net them even better sales than the crap they release on Wii? What was I thinking?!

 

[manueldelalas]

EA actually blamed the Wii for their poor holiday software sales. So I somehow doubt they're kicking themselves all that much.

Just look at Rock Band sales this month; yep that's not the recently released high cost game for the PS3 or X360.
That's the half assed port they made for the Wii of the last version of the game that probably didn't cost nothing to do. The missed opportunity is right there to watch, I say they are kicking themselves really hard now.

 

[markatisu]

Just look at Rock Band sales this month; yep that's not the recently released high cost game for the PS3 or X360.
That's the half assed port they made for the Wii of the last version of the game that probably didn't cost nothing to do. The missed opportunity is right there to watch, I say they are kicking themselves really hard now.

Exactly the Rock Band 1 Wii port is almost a direct dump of the PS2, there is no online, no DLC and even the instruments are all USB based (instead of acting as classic controllers which is what Neversoft did with Guitar Hero III and Guitar Hero Aerosmith)

It must have cost them next to nothing that they did not already spend on the PS2 version, and then it came out about 6 months later than all the others to boot.

As much as I am anticipating Rock Band 2 Wii it really surprises me they are not delaying it till like April or May and riding the Rock Band 1 train of profit for many more months

Just today I saw every Best Buy and Gamestop I went to was sold out of Rock Band 1 Wii (it was on special for $100)

 

[Link]

Just look at Rock Band sales this month; yep that's not the recently released high cost game for the PS3 or X360.
That's the half assed port they made for the Wii of the last version of the game that probably didn't cost nothing to do. The missed opportunity is right there to watch, I say they are kicking themselves really hard now.

I'm not saying that it isn't stupid, but EA's attitude toward the whole thing hardly makes it seem like they're upset they didn't try harder.

 

[Shaheed79]

EA actually blamed the Wii for their poor holiday software sales. So I somehow doubt they're kicking themselves all that much.

They did what now? :lol

What did they say?

They should also blame communism. People hate communism.

 

[Jokeropia]

You're right they only expect to do well.

These latest games (Shaun White in particular) has the potential to succeed, it was the Petz, Babyz, Horsez crap etc. that didn't do so well.

 

[titiklabingapat]

They did what now? :lol

What did they say?

They should also blame communism. People hate communism.

paraphrasing, but the CEO guy said the Wii, and it's challenges(poor third party performance, i.e. EA) continues to factor, among other things, into their losses. Especially the current one.

 

[manueldelalas]

I'm not saying that it isn't stupid, but EA's attitude toward the whole thing hardly makes it seem like they're upset they didn't try harder.

Well they have had their share of bombs on the Wii (not that they weren't deserved...) and they have completely failed to capture the Wii demographic with past generation hits (FIFA and Madden), and I think those games have sold less than in the previous generation counting the HD versions (pulling numbers from my ass here...at least that is my perception); so I guess they are mad that the mainstream console is affecting their business.

But still, the Rock Band irony is just there, and it is really funny.

 

[bigmakstudios]

I wonder what Nintendo first party studios have in store for Wii in 2009, besides Wii Sports Resort. For all of 2008, Nintendo didn't release anything I wanted. I was looking forward to Brawl for quite a while, and I did buy it, but I found it highly disappointing, with a useless online mode (I actually can't use it... the framerate slows to a halt if I try to play online), and mechanics that I realized I just don't find fun. I also thought I might like Mario Kart, but I decided not to buy it because it seems overly similar, but no better, than previous games in the series. I loved Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3, but there wasn't really much of anything that I wanted on the system in 2008. If Nintendo could sell systems at such a high rate without releasing any games I'm personally interested in for an entire year, then I imagine that won't change much at all.

Also, I don't really understand why people make excuses for Nintendo. I keep seeing people say things like, "Nintendo doesn't need to release new games because their old games still sell", or, "Nintendo released so many good games last year and early in this year, so it's okay". As a Nintendo fan, is it not better to bash them than to support them if they're not performing to your expectations? Of course, neither will have a great effect, but if you aren't satisfied with only playing the few "evergreen" games that Nintendo continues to push, then why would you be glad with Nintendo's success? From my point of view, it seems logical that if Nintendo's new direction wasn't so phenomenally successful, they would be trying harder to attract consumers. But now, all they really need to do is make sure they don't fumble. It seems like the system practically sells itself.

 

[brain_stew]

Anyone else get the feeling that Bethesda way over shipped copies of Fallout 3? They announced what 4 millions units shipped? The title hasn't come close to even half that in NPD's, and it seems a very US centric title (rather like Gears of War).

When I bought my copy last week, Amazon shipped it out from a warehouse in MD, probably Bethesda main publishing location. They're likely stockpiling all these "shipped". Plus various sellers (like Amazon) have been doing price cuts, I managed to snag it for $49 when the games only been out for a month. Amazons price has gone back up but I'm starting to think Bethesda clogged the channel a bit.

PC games sell better in Europe, a very big portion of that 4 million will be coming from that sector.

 

[IronicallyTwisted]

The reasoning that quality well made games from 3rd parties talented teams will net them even better sales than the crap they release on Wii? What was I thinking?!

That wasn't your argument, and neither was that shitty straw man.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

paraphrasing, but the CEO guy said the Wii, and it's challenges(poor third party performance, i.e. EA) continues to factor, among other things, into their losses. Especially the current one.

Well it seems like they just gave up on the Wii for a while. When all else fails, try, try again.

 

[Link]

They did what now? :lol

What did they say?

They should also blame communism. People hate communism.

http://www.gamecyte.com/eas-fiscal-2009-update-sales-down-cuts-imminent

The biggest roadblock to EA’s success, though, will remain the Wii. While they are the most successful third party publisher on Nintendo’s platform, EA just hasn’t been equipped to deal with the radically new gaming environment it spawned. “No question that having the Wii platform be a platform with 2/3rds of unit sales occurring to the first party owner is a really unusual thing,” John said. (Which, according to the NPD, isn’t quite true.) “We haven’t seen that since prior to PlayStation 1, and in terms of console game sales that’s a challenge and something we have to contend with.”

Eric added in his two cents. “We would be doing better if Nintendo didn’t have such a stronghold on their own platform.”

EDIT - Btw, here's their Q4 Wii releases:

Wii Rock Band 2 12/18/08
Wii Skate It 11/19/08
Wii MySims Kingdom 10/28/08
Wii Nerf N-Strike 10/28/08
Wii Ginsei Table Games Wii 10/23/08
Wii Celebrity Sports Showdown 10/23/08
Wii Monopoly 10/20/08
Wii Boogie SuperStar 10/14/08
Wii Littlest Pet Shop 10/14/08
Wii Saikyou Ginsei Mahjong 10/07/08

Note that RB2 isn't out yet.

 

[SapientWolf]

PC games sell better in Europe, a very big portion of that 4 million will be coming from that sector.

I was wondering why everyone playing World in Conflict had a European accent. I was beginning to think there was a voice filter or something.

 

[ViperVisor]

Gamerankings stats

2008 Min 20 reviews Limit to 50 results.

Wii
44 Titles with 1449 Reviews
Avg. game 6.945

360
50 Titles with 2413 Reviews
Avg. game 8.498

PS3
50 Titles with 1891 Reviews
Avg. game 8.403

20 Reviews takes out most of the online marketplace games.

EA or anyone blaming Wii/Nintendo is just throwing shit at the wall vs the reality which would be 'We/I fucked up'. If they admit their fault they then have look at getting fired or at least self ownage due to honesty.

 

[brain_stew]

I was wondering why everyone playing World in Conflict had a European accent. I was beginning to think there was a voice filter or something.

There still plenty of markets (like Germany for example) where the PC retail market is much bigger than the console market, although that is changing with the Wii and NDS which are pulling insane numbers in every market they're released in.

The "PC gaming is dying" brigade tend to be completely oblivious to this fact and see the (comparatively) weak US retail market and presume the same is true everywhere else. Its not.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

No, I clearly remember reading how media molecule shopped the concept around (with that colourful, blocky pre-alpha you might've seen in videos) and went to Nintendo first - who turned them down.

Bad call.

Source? Things I've seen read quite differently.

Here's an article from 2006 that mentions "Nintendo offered Healey an exclusive deal for Rag Doll Kung Fu, which he declined."

Then here's one from a year later where Reggie is talking up LBP:

"I think the best thing shown by Phil Harrison [at March's Game Developers Conference] was LittleBigPlanet," Nintendo of America president Fils-Aime told N'Gai Croal. "The group doing that game is fantastic, and I say that having seen the rag doll little product that they had created."

He continued, "Frankly, Nintendo wanted to do some business with those folks, but to give Phil some credit, he got there first. That product, I think, is quite intriguing. I'm not sure how well it will do on the Sony platform, quite frankly, but I think that the product they showed was outstanding."

So I never really was worried about this before but how can the Wii not affect the future
of gaming consoles. I am sure Sony and Microsoft are having meetings focused solely
on how the next iteration of consoles can be more mass market and cheaper to produce.
I mean what real reason do either of them have investing in creating another console
with bleeding edge technology. It makes me sad for the potential future but I am probably
blowing this out of proportion.

Thank heavens they're considering something cheaper to produce. You don't have to break previous console pricing records to get fancy tech. 2012's new $300 machine can still kick the pants off of 2006's $600 machine.

1)Why couldn't gamecube be this successful?

I think they did a lot right to make up for the mistakes of N64... but unless the market leader screws up or another player does something radically different that catches on, the patterns of the previous generation tend to continue. In the case of last generation GameCube offered nice tech at an even nicer price with some of the most successful game franchises in the world, but it wasn't enough to set it apart from people who would just by default go for the next PlayStation.

 

[manueldelalas]

EDIT - Btw, here's their Q4 Wii releases:

Wii Rock Band 2 12/18/08
Wii Skate It 11/19/08
Wii MySims Kingdom 10/28/08
Wii Nerf N-Strike 10/28/08
Wii Ginsei Table Games Wii 10/23/08
Wii Celebrity Sports Showdown 10/23/08
Wii Monopoly 10/20/08
Wii Boogie SuperStar 10/14/08
Wii Littlest Pet Shop 10/14/08
Wii Saikyou Ginsei Mahjong 10/07/08

Note that RB2 isn't out yet.

I see just one good game released... and that game was released on the other consoles eons ago; no wonder they don't sell games.

 

[MoogPaul]

Any idea what the shipment size of Valkyria Chronicles was? I can't imagine it was too big.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I am more than willing to part with $300-$400
to play the next Gears of War or Metal Gear Solid. But I am definitely in
the minority.

Sure hope not, cause that's what I want too....

And also a console strong enough to render the cellshaded CG in the DQ9 trailer in realtime :/

 

[Omar Ismail]

You know... people make the argument "shovelware Wii title is selling pretty well, now imagine if the games were actually good!"

Well, let's really imagine that. The Wii audience is the definition of mainstream and casual. What that means, and what we've seen in other mediums, is that quality has very little bearing on sales to the mainstream. So WHY would companies spend time, money and effort to develop high quality titles for the Wii when the shovelware will sell just as much?

Unfortunately for devs, the PS360 audience is far more savvy, and therefore there is a direct correlation to quality and sales (most of the time...) So they have to spend the time, effort and resources to make high quality HD games if they want to see any sales at all.

This is exactly why outside of a few choice exeptions you're not going to see a sudden tide turning in the 3rd party landscape. Stop hoping for it to happen. It just won't.

Now deal with that reality however you want.

 

[onipex]

These latest games (Shaun White in particular) has the potential to succeed, it was the Petz, Babyz, Horsez crap etc. that didn't do so well.

According to the article their whole point was that third parties can do well on the Wii. They were the first 3rd party to do well during the launch period after all.

 

[Link]

You know... people make the argument "shovelware Wii title is selling pretty well, now imagine if the games were actually good!"

Well, let's really imagine that. The Wii audience is the definition of mainstream and casual. What that means, and what we've seen in other mediums, is that quality has very little bearing on sales to the mainstream. So WHY would companies spend time, money and effort to develop high quality titles for the Wii when the shovelware will sell just as much?

Unfortunately for devs, the PS360 audience is far more savvy, and therefore there is a direct correlation to quality and sales (most of the time...) So they have to spend the time, effort and resources to make high quality HD games if they want to see any sales at all.

This is exactly why outside of a few choice exeptions you're not going to see a sudden tide turning in the 3rd party landscape. Stop hoping for it to happen. It just won't.

Now deal with that reality however you want.

This argument is extremely flawed. Why did developers bother making quality titles for the PS2?

 

[boiled goose]

I wonder what Nintendo first party studios have in store for Wii in 2009, besides Wii Sports Resort. For all of 2008, Nintendo didn't release anything I wanted. I was looking forward to Brawl for quite a while, and I did buy it, but I found it highly disappointing, with a useless online mode (I actually can't use it... the framerate slows to a halt if I try to play online), and mechanics that I realized I just don't find fun. I also thought I might like Mario Kart, but I decided not to buy it because it seems overly similar, but no better, than previous games in the series. I loved Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3, but there wasn't really much of anything that I wanted on the system in 2008. If Nintendo could sell systems at such a high rate without releasing any games I'm personally interested in for an entire year, then I imagine that won't change much at all.

Also, I don't really understand why people make excuses for Nintendo. I keep seeing people say things like, "Nintendo doesn't need to release new games because their old games still sell", or, "Nintendo released so many good games last year and early in this year, so it's okay". As a Nintendo fan, is it not better to bash them than to support them if they're not performing to your expectations? Of course, neither will have a great effect, but if you aren't satisfied with only playing the few "evergreen" games that Nintendo continues to push, then why would you be glad with Nintendo's success? From my point of view, it seems logical that if Nintendo's new direction wasn't so phenomenally successful, they would be trying harder to attract consumers. But now, all they really need to do is make sure they don't fumble. It seems like the system practically sells itself.

i dont think most nintendo fans are making excuses. im sure most of them would want more games to play this fall... especially new ips or stuff that could have been released like disaster and fatal frame..

this is a sales thread.. we are trying to understand why nintendo didnt release more games... not that gamers are happy that they didnt...

 

[Omar Ismail]

This argument is extremely flawed. Why did developers bother making quality titles for the PS2?

Because the PS2 had captured the 50 million or so hardcore gamers that exist around the world.

Wii's userbase is mighty impressive, but I'd wager the vast vast vast majority of its audience is the uber-casual mainstream. The kind of audience that doesn't care about quality like you and I do.

 

[jman2050]

Because the PS2 had captured the 50 million or so hardcore gamers that exist around the world.

Wii's userbase is mighty impressive, but I'd wager the vast vast vast majority of its audience is the uber-casual mainstream. The kind of audience that doesn't care about quality like you and I do.

I'm pretty sure that the number of "hardcore" gamers as you might see them don't approach anywhere near 50 million.

 

[Flakster99]

Because the PS2 had captured the 50 million or so hardcore gamers that exist around the world.

Wii's userbase is mighty impressive, but I'd wager the vast vast vast majority of its audience is the uber-casual mainstream. The kind of audience that doesn't care about quality like you and I do.

Here is some food for thought;

2 million new Wii owners are not 2 million soccer moms. They are not 2 million nintendo fans, not 2 million "hardcore" gamers, not 2 million niche gamers, not 2 million gamers fooled by the allure of the Wii remote.

Truth is its ALL of those combined, plus more types of gamers you don't even think about.

Why the hell do you think it sells so much? If it appealed exclusively to soccer moms it would probably be selling as much as the 360 at MOST. It sells so damn much because of the combined different demographics buying the console. And the demographic you are in are part of ones buying the Wii, whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

 

[titiklabingapat]

You know... people make the argument "shovelware Wii title is selling pretty well, now imagine if the games were actually good!"

Well, let's really imagine that. The Wii audience is the definition of mainstream and casual. What that means, and what we've seen in other mediums, is that quality has very little bearing on sales to the mainstream. So WHY would companies spend time, money and effort to develop high quality titles for the Wii when the shovelware will sell just as much?

Unfortunately for devs, the PS360 audience is far more savvy, and therefore there is a direct correlation to quality and sales (most of the time...) So they have to spend the time, effort and resources to make high quality HD games if they want to see any sales at all.

This is exactly why outside of a few choice exeptions you're not going to see a sudden tide turning in the 3rd party landscape. Stop hoping for it to happen. It just won't.

Now deal with that reality however you want.

"Shovelware" or a mainstream games' quality do have some bearing on how it will perform on the monthly charts. How do you explain how all those Nintendo games being the dominant titles on the system?

Taste aside, you can't deny that Nintendo puts all thier AAA teams on those titles, whereas your run of the mill shovelware sells proportionately on how much a given publisher spent making it.

It can be subtle to some, but the general consumer can tell the difference between a well made crap to a shat out complete trash.

 

[botticus]

I'd also argue that while a very casual Wii owner might not really look into the quality of a game before purchasing, is it really hard to believe that after buying and playing a terrible game, they'll decide to avoid buying and playing games that seem similar in the future? Whether that's a sequel, another game by the same publishers, or any other measure.

 

[Link]

Because the PS2 had captured the 50 million or so hardcore gamers that exist around the world.

Wii's userbase is mighty impressive, but I'd wager the vast vast vast majority of its audience is the uber-casual mainstream. The kind of audience that doesn't care about quality like you and I do.

That's funny, considering the best selling PS2 game was GTA:SA, with about 20 million units sold. That's with a userbase of over 140 million.

EDIT - Actually, that number includes Xbox and PC sales, so it's lower than that on the PS2.