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NPD Sales Results for October 2013 [Up2: 3DS, 360, Pokemon Combined, GTAV]
- Thread starter Takao
- Start date
shinra-bansho
Member
Oh I mixed up your posts.
I don't see how the game goes on to sell 100K LTD from a 11K opening... but whatever. I didn't know we had numbers for Arkham City Wii U.
Why would retailers even bother to order any more units of it?
That's um, really different from my 'guy'. I'll get back to you, but you're also breaking down by platform here. The HD Twins are virtually the same platform for most publishers.
Either way I know you weren't arguing my main point, but I think it stands.
Whoever said in here that a few companies are in a lot of trouble due to Nintendo's console implosion was spot on.
metalslimer
Member
basically it seems that worldwide the majority of Wii Us are inactive. I mean why would they be active for most people when Nintendo basically is treating the system like its dead.
It will at least in December. The question is how high it can go in November.
Captain Smoker
Member
That's why I say the first month isn't that important.
Just an example: Angry Birds 3DS first month 20K, now it's over half a million.
Nevertheless, the numbers aren't good either, despite the fact that they are going to rise. The prices are also decreasing with time and they earn less money per game.
Every time we get Wii U sales details people suggest going third party, as if that won't actually kill the company.
So third party games didn't do well on the Wii U. Is that a surprise? Games on a console with a low install base sell low amounts? I am shocked!
Yes, Lego Marvel sold better on 360 and PS3 than Wii U...because they have a bigger install base.
Come on...
Yes, the Wii U is doing badly, yes it needs help...but seriously, use your heads more people.
So third party games didn't do well on the Wii U. Is that a surprise? Games on a console with a low install base sell low amounts? I am shocked!
Yes, Lego Marvel sold better on 360 and PS3 than Wii U...because they have a bigger install base.
Come on...
Yes, the Wii U is doing badly, yes it needs help...but seriously, use your heads more people.
Visualante2
Member
Would have expected WiiU to contribute a bit more than 1% given North America is the stronger market for it.
Kind of a mixed bag, this month. I'm not exactly weeping over Assassin's Creed or others.
Kind of a mixed bag, this month. I'm not exactly weeping over Assassin's Creed or others.
shinra-bansho
Member
Eh... Batman games don't strike me as long-legged slow burners. I would think for titles like Arkham, first months are very important. Much more so than for titles like Angry Birds.That's why I say the first month isn't that important.
Just an example: Angry Birds 3DS first month 20K, now it's over half a million.
Nevertheless, the numbers aren't good either, despite the fact that they are going to rise. The prices are also decreasing with time and they earn less money per game.
-----
Info summary:
Hardware:
3DS - 452K
360 - 166K
100K< PS3 <120K
Wii U - ~55K
Wii - ~35K
PSV <30K
Software:
Angry Birds: Star Wars - 3.4K 3DS, 0.4K PSV
Beyond: Two Souls - 120-125K
Sonic Lost World - <30K all platforms
Wind Waker HD - <200K LTD; <100K bundled + <100K standalone
Batman Arkham Origins - <650K; Wii U SKU <11.7K
Wii Party U - <11.7K
Assassin's Creed - Wii U 1% of total; <6.5K
The Wonderful 101 - <25K LTD
-----
Some details on NDS and PSP just to round things out would be cool.
100k for Wii Party U sounds about right to me. People interested in that kind of game aren't the ones who line-up in stores on release day, neither would they buy a console for a game like that. Party U's fate depends on whether or not Mario 3D World attracts people's interest during the holiday season. If so, I can see it being a decent-selling Christmas gift.
In gemeral, I don't think Nintendo's chances are dead yet. There's still no other platform that became the Wii's "local multiplayer successor" and that's where Nintendo's strenghts are. Not having Mario Kart this christmas is really bad, though.
I’m sure Ubisoft and WB will be over the moon with such low sales. The time and money spent developing the games must have been worth it.
What planet do you live on where titles selling under 2% of the total sales on Wii U is not a problem?
Also if like you say its no surprise games sell so poorly due to the low install base then I take it you have no issue with 3rd parties who refuse to develop/publish games for Wii U until the install base is healthy? EA’s decision all good?
shinra-bansho
Member
The Wii U SKU of Arkham Origins has a lower attach rate than the PS360 SKUs based on what we know.
A system in it's first year shouldn't have major software releases exhibiting less than 1% attach rates. So, while I'm sure WBIE aren't "surprised" at this stage, they most probably aren't happy about it.
You can keep pretending that the software sales are just low because of a low installed base if you want though.
I never said it wasn't a problem. I said it wasn't unexpected. Especially as Nintendo consoles have never really been the place for these sorts of games.
As the games have online components, people are more inclined to get it on the console upon which their friends have. As such, it's more likely for them to get it on the 360/PS3, even if they have a Wii U.
On the contrary. I'd say a system in its first year should be expected to...especially if the games are also on established consoles with big installbases while having online.
metalslimer
Member
This is your excuse for the abysmal 3rd party sales worldwide? A tornado would have been a better one
Well I'm glad you expected god awful software sales. 3rd parties clearly didn't.
It's simple mathematics, not an excuse.
Nowhere am I saying that it's a good thing, or that Nintendo doesn't need to sort this. I'm not making excuses for it, but providing logical reasons for it.
Well, the smart ones did. That´s why they didn´t release any games for the WiiU in the first place.
Basileus777
Member
And if they cut out the gamepad, Nintendo is likely left with millions of gamepads in inventory that they can do nothing to get rid of. They'd have to write off a loss for those too.
shinra-bansho
Member
You do realize that doesn't make sense?
Attach rates get smaller as systems mature, despite that absolute sales may increase, because there are diminishing returns on the impact of increasing the installed base size.
Publishers are wanting 10%, 20% attach rates on these small installed bases. Not 0.8%.
you couldn't find it in stores the week of release unless it was gamestop or maybe wal-mart or toys r us (i didn't check the other two). target didn't stock batman or ass flag in stores. best buy did, but they didn't display them in the wii u section. that doesn't cover everything, but when wii u branding isn't on kiosks, when a game is in stock but not on the floor, or when it's not even ordered at all, it matters.
and i suppose this refuels speculation about a myriad of crazy shit nintendo is doing behind closed doors. these guys know what's going on now simply isn't working at all. it's strange how quick they were to slash the price of the 3ds and advertise the hell out of every major game, but are just kinda sitting on their hands with the wii u (price drop and new bundles notwithstanding- but they haven't tried to reach out to a television audience that those things are happening).
StoppedInTracks
Member
Wii U is a disaster for 3rd parties. I'd cancel all my Wii U projects if I were Activision/ EA/ WB Games/ Ubisoft boss. Not worth my time, money and development team disappointment.
shinra-bansho
Member
Are you suggesting these numbers would be dramatically higher (like an order of magnitude higher is really what's needed)? This same argument pops up in the PAL charts thread, retailers will stock what they think they can sell. They'll devote floorspace to what's generating the most revenue per space per time.
It's not supply constraint, it's demand constraint.
michaelius
Banned
Don't mix result with cause.
What you are speaking about is result of sales of previous Wii U games and hardware. Considering that first milion of people should be early adopters and biggest fans if they wanted those games they would preorder them.
All those third party games that got released on Wii U recently probably were too far in realisation to cancel so it was decided they will lose less money by releasing them.
it's more than that- it's a complete and utter lack of willingness to push the console in any way except pikmin 3 and super mario 3d world. in that time frame there's been a price drop, a new bundle, tww hd, sonic and mario, the wonderful 101 wii party u, and wii fit u. it's like they have zero faith in the product. and it's bizarre because they keep trying to sell the machine anyway. it isn't like the vita where it seems sony doesn't know it exists. with nintendo, they appear to be aware about the problems, and don't seem to care enough to fix them.
when nintendo dropped the price of the 3ds, they put out a commercial for it, and highlighted upcoming games. and then each of those games had their own ad campaigns before release. they were very quick to action.
no. it's just weird there's not one copy of batman: arkham origins for the wii u in los angeles or orange county for one retailer. i'm not sure where you live, but i'm in densely populated areas where there's always something to sell to someone and there isn't anything in stock here. i wouldn't have thought 100k for a port of a year-old game was that big of a catastrophe.
Captain Smoker
Member
Well:
5.000.000 $ revenue or 0 $ revenue
Your development money is already gone, if you release it or not.
Yep. Wii U is dead. Expect some crazy shit from them for their next trick.
I know they have to ride this out but can they really ride it out until 2016?
PdotMichael
Banned
Looking at the worldwide hardware and software sales.
It wouldn't make a difference if Nintendo kills the WiiU business in 2014 or try to push it until 2016. The console isn't even a niche product but already irrelevant.
shinra-bansho
Member
For comparison, some attach rates for games (multiplatform with last gen systems) in the 360's first year through the magic of google.
July
NCAA Football 07 - 15%
August
Madden NFL 07 - 24%
September
Lego Star Wars II - 4%
October
Splinter Cell: Double Agent - 10%
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance - 3%
Tiger Woods 07 - 4%
(If any are inaccurate please correct.)
July
NCAA Football 07 - 15%
August
Madden NFL 07 - 24%
September
Lego Star Wars II - 4%
October
Splinter Cell: Double Agent - 10%
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance - 3%
Tiger Woods 07 - 4%
(If any are inaccurate please correct.)
That's just this month. It did like 7M last month so about 8.1M in the US alone.
Well yes but killing it in 2014 kills leaves a bad taste in the mouth of current wii u owners doesnt it?
What...all five of them?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
1-2% of total sales isnt low. Its abysmal.
4 million of their core fans. So the customer base they don't really want to upset and then developers that supported Wii U (yeah I'm including indies here) with the mindset that it will be on the market for 5 years rather than 2. Not many developers did support Wii U but wouldn't you agree that pissing the few off that did wouldn't be the best way to handle this?
Basileus777
Member
The current owners are less important than the message it would send to the industry and potential future customers. Killing off a console early would do huge damage to their brand and instill doubt and distrust in their future hardware. Of course, they may have no choice but to do it anyway.
it's not nintendo who gets to kill their platform but retailers. And looking by how very little software is in stock, they are definitely headed that way,
by January 2016 WiiU will feel as dead as PSP 2013 or Wii 2012.
and Vita follows the WiiU in the same path, both are in serious trouble
I wondered what the deal was if retailers pull it? Nintendo use there own online store or would it mean the end just like that?
Metallix87
Member
At the very least, they will try riding it out until the end of 2015, though I can't see it being a pleasant experience for them. Hopefully, their next console takes what they learned from Wii U and pushes forward in a new direction, because another Wii U disaster would be disastrous.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
If they're smart, they'd be the first with a VR helmet. It's the next revolution on the way, and Sony has already hinted that they're working on it.
I think 3DS will easily be enough to tide them over financially, but I think we'll see the Wii U successor announced at the end of 2014. A release halfway between the release of the other two consoles gives them multiple years to be the most powerful console on the block if they choose to go that route, plus gives people enough time to save for a new console after spending for PS4/XB1. Could be enough to get third parties back on board.
Katana_Strikes
Member
Anyone updating that Nintendo home consoles graph with the top charting games on too?
I like that graph!
I like that graph!
Well you can bet that they have been researching that for many years. I wonder if it will be materialize in near future though.
I'm honestly not a fan of the VR helmet and I doubt they would be able to get a successor announced that fast. It takes time to come up with a concept and everything else necessary. I would expect an announcement in 2015 at the earliest.
Wii U is such a bomba console I was expecting it to be GC 2.0 but not THAT bad, 3DS will continue to sell well but in addition it will take away sales from Wii U. It obvious right now if you want Nintendo console you should get a 3DS. It's far better deal price and software wise.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
VR actually works against Nintendo properties since it relies mostly on first person. Nintendo properties rely on you seeing their mascot characters all the time, controlling them, seeing them do cool stuff, and so on. There could be an angle more from the side of putting you in an environment and then controlling Mario et al as if you were a tourist along for the ride, but thats faaaaaarrr too gimmicky to have long standing appeal.
It also requires a box of power at least on par with PS4 and beyond by Oculus staff admission. Thats not something Nintendo can really get into and push. Instead, if they even wanted to take another bat at the home console market instead of consolidating software dev all in on a hybrid (Why spend resources on Mario 3D World when a 3D Land 2 will sell exponentially better?), they'd have to mix up something unique with haptics, Tactus tech maybe, a new advanced motion control, and some really compelling out there software. I dont think the current company has it in them.
It also requires a box of power at least on par with PS4 and beyond by Oculus staff admission. Thats not something Nintendo can really get into and push. Instead, if they even wanted to take another bat at the home console market instead of consolidating software dev all in on a hybrid (Why spend resources on Mario 3D World when a 3D Land 2 will sell exponentially better?), they'd have to mix up something unique with haptics, Tactus tech maybe, a new advanced motion control, and some really compelling out there software. I dont think the current company has it in them.
I'm an optimist by nature, so I'm still predicting 1 million Wii U sold between November and December (350.000 + 650.000). But man, more like HW numbers the SW numbers are catastrophic Ö (the HW numbers are not better).
And not to justify the Wii Party U sales but wasn't in the US where Wii Party sold the less amount by a wide margin? (I'm remembering something like +2 million in Europe, +2.5 million in Japan and only 0.5 million in US? Someone please correct me).
Hoping for a good November with the new consoles launching but damn, the industry is not in a good spot for now
And not to justify the Wii Party U sales but wasn't in the US where Wii Party sold the less amount by a wide margin? (I'm remembering something like +2 million in Europe, +2.5 million in Japan and only 0.5 million in US? Someone please correct me).
Hoping for a good November with the new consoles launching but damn, the industry is not in a good spot for now