Battersea Power Station
Member
This is a baby boomer's wet dream.
Number of Soviet System Supporters Grows in Russia
- Thread starter Lonely1
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Legitimate reasons aside, over half a century of propaganda and state sponsored paranoia that the communist countries across the world were going to rain nukes down upon any part of the US didn't help.
Why? Putin thrives in this pseudodemocratic Russia.
industrian
will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
The initial western hatred of the Soviet Union had very little to do with Communism, and more to do with Lenin defaulting on all foreign debt. And considering how much money the west had shoveled into Russia to keep it afloat that generally meant a lot of pissed off people in the UK, France and USA. To the point that those countries intervened in the Russian Civil War in order to support the White Army (the Tsar loyalists.)
After WW2 however, the Soviet Union became the ideal "textbook threat" for the powers that be in the USA to use to gain power and to run their own agendas. Once the USSR got their own nuclear weapons, there was a worldwide paradigm shift that can only be described as the "9/11 of its day." Everyone was running around trying to find imaginary communist agents who were going to destroy the USA from the inside and what not - and who cares about the trampled-on civil rights or destroyed careers of those caught being "sympathisers." Not to mention the countless killed, tortured or imprisoned in Latin America from US intervention in the name of "anti-Communist actions."
I'm getting sidetracked here so I'll stop.
Yeah, but most people weren't sent to the gulags. Nowadays you can hear in the news here how the elderly are forced to beg on the streets if their families can't support them, or otherwise they'd starve to death.
I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone to spend their final days begging (through russian winters no less) to avoid starvation.
TacticalFox88
Banned
As long as the Russian military remains in shambles, Putin's goals can never become reality.
SiteSeer
Member
the ideology is an existential threat to the other.
Myke Greywolf
Ambassador of Goodwill
I am guessing that many, many of these soviet regime supporters, either:
a) Aren't old enough to really know or remember what it meant to live as a part of that system, or
b) Were part of the enormous ruling party apparatus and, thus, privileged in comparison to most soviet citizens of that time.
In most likeliness, the younger people under a) are also being manipulated by the ones under b).
a) Aren't old enough to really know or remember what it meant to live as a part of that system, or
b) Were part of the enormous ruling party apparatus and, thus, privileged in comparison to most soviet citizens of that time.
In most likeliness, the younger people under a) are also being manipulated by the ones under b).
You're right. Most people weren't sent to the gulags. The 14,000,000 people sent to the gulags is not most of the USSR's 290,000,000+ population.
But that's still fourteen million people.
I am not trying to downplay the atrocities of the Soviets, just saying that when people are struggling to put food on the table and have a warm home for the winters and their grandma has to beg on the streets to put food on her table, the old ways are looking a lot better than the current reality to some people.
Principles are nice to have, but you can't eat them nor can you use them to warm yourself during the winter.
pants
Member
Thanks for this, I figured there must be more to it then ideological clashes
makingmusic476
Member
The initial Soviet government was designed around democracy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy
It just didn't last very long:
I'd be interested in seeing that given a legitimate try. It seems like it'd mix the elements of the USSR that they long for with proper representation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy
It just didn't last very long:
I'd be interested in seeing that given a legitimate try. It seems like it'd mix the elements of the USSR that they long for with proper representation.
Synth_floyd
Banned
The idea of communism threatened the cultural system of the US. Communism was (theoretically) about redistributing wealth, equality for all people and the rich people who profited from the capitalist system in the US as well as the racism of the American system were opposed to any change. And there was also the stuff about the genocides that Stalin was committing, total dictatorship, no rights at all for the people, etc. It's a weird mix. China has the same thing as well, to a lesser extent. In the Chinese constitution the people are guaranteed freedom of speech, religion, etc. but of course the government doesn't allow any of that.
The fact that people are wishing that Russia was the Soviet Union just shows how scary powerful nationalism is. Even though the people lived like animals, the USSR had "respect" and was powerful. Plus it probably reflects the ignorance of the true nature of the Soviet Union that most people know in Russia. People who act this slavishly are easily manipulated like assholes like Putin.
The fact that people are wishing that Russia was the Soviet Union just shows how scary powerful nationalism is. Even though the people lived like animals, the USSR had "respect" and was powerful. Plus it probably reflects the ignorance of the true nature of the Soviet Union that most people know in Russia. People who act this slavishly are easily manipulated like assholes like Putin.
makingmusic476
Member
Mao, the Kims, and even Castro were heavily influenced by Stalin when forming their governments, as the USSR was seen as the model for these new socialist states.
In a way, Stalin paved the way for every variant of authoritarian Communism we know today.
Most Eastern-Europeans I have spoken hate Communism, it's only Russians that would support a Soviet state because their hate for Putin.
makingmusic476
Member
It's ironic to me that some would want to vote away their right to vote.
Edit:
Assuming I'm interpreting this line correctly:
"The number of Western democracy supporters has fallen from 29 percent to 22 percent, Levada Center reported. Only 17 percent said they remain loyal to the existing political system, a three percent drop from last year."
Edit:
Assuming I'm interpreting this line correctly:
"The number of Western democracy supporters has fallen from 29 percent to 22 percent, Levada Center reported. Only 17 percent said they remain loyal to the existing political system, a three percent drop from last year."
I don't think that the conclusion is entirely correct. I checked out the study and found out that before 2005-2006 the percentage of supporters of the Soviet regime was over 40. It dipped from 35 in 2011 to 29 in 2011, probably because it was pre-election time with all the things happening around it, or it could've been a statistical anomaly. Anyway, I don't think even those 36% want USSR back, it is more of a nostalgic thing than anything else, people tend to remember only good. It could also be that recently Putin and the establishment started to heavily promote "how good it used to be when there was a Soviet nation" and use Soviet symbols and "values" in his propaganda order to please some of the older people as his electorate base continues to shrink. Even the Russian orthodox church is saying it "needs to reconsider Stalin's significance in history". It might be the result of that policy.
speculawyer
Member
It is hard to blame them. The communist system was very corrupt. But this new Russia . . . is very very corrupt.
Our idealization of freedom is kind of a vacuous concept when compared to observable pragmatic benefits affecting the livelihood of an individual. So we quote un-quote have all these de juris freedoms accorded to us but really how much of these abstractions translate to tangible real world benefits to our lives, present and future. Most of us can bark and write about whatever we want, but how often does a well intentioned rant manifest into change. It's funny how one of the most fundamental critiques of socialist and communist theories are the vast contrasts between theoretical feasibility and real world application. But isn't that also true of our own system; liberal ideals sounds always so great in theory but most often than not in application results in these top heavy societies where the majority eats varying levels of crow while a few yield power and call the shots.
So in a sense i can understand why people could feel this way, i would acknowledge some limitations of the freedoms we have for more pragmatic benefits. The problem is that the idea of the benevolent tyrant has been historically proven to be quasi-impossible. So i echo the line of thought that despite liberal capitalism sucking so much fucking ass, it's the best we've got so far. I might also add that i personally feel very strongly that European social democracy is the most reasonable iteration of it.
So in a sense i can understand why people could feel this way, i would acknowledge some limitations of the freedoms we have for more pragmatic benefits. The problem is that the idea of the benevolent tyrant has been historically proven to be quasi-impossible. So i echo the line of thought that despite liberal capitalism sucking so much fucking ass, it's the best we've got so far. I might also add that i personally feel very strongly that European social democracy is the most reasonable iteration of it.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
Pfft it's going to be a mess anyways...
Lagspike_exe
Member
The same one who slaughtered tens of thousands of people post-WW2 and ran concentration camps?
Soyongdori
Member
People still believe that?
Used to be in shambles. They are going through completely upgrade since the rise of China.
Anticitizen One
Banned
but I think it was in one of the Call of Duty games
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