NeonGhost
uses 'M$' - What year is it? Not 2002.
You don’t pay the bills with games you can’t sell
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Oddworld Dev Says PS Plus Free Game Deal Was’ Devastating’
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Game Dev Platform
ethomaz
Banned
It had way less PS5 availability.
Sony forecast was way higher but got shrunk by silicon issues.
BTW without the PS+ deal he should not even finish the game… now he is thinking he could sell more lol
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NickFire
Member
It appears they are literally saying:
1) We needed money and cut a deal to launch on PS+.
2) When we made the deal we expected to launch at the beginning of the current console cycle.
3) But then we had to delay our launch because the game was not done.
4) When we were ready to launch, there were more new consoles in consumers hands then would have existed if we launched sooner.
5) So more people downloaded the game, and now we blame the deal we made that gave us the money to finish the game for not making as much as we possibly could have from the game.
Very poor form for them to go on an Xbox branded podcast and trash the PS+ deal they made that helped them weather financial difficulties. It comes across like a jaded ex-spouse who is mad that their ex invested their half of the property division and made a profit from it.
1) We needed money and cut a deal to launch on PS+.
2) When we made the deal we expected to launch at the beginning of the current console cycle.
3) But then we had to delay our launch because the game was not done.
4) When we were ready to launch, there were more new consoles in consumers hands then would have existed if we launched sooner.
5) So more people downloaded the game, and now we blame the deal we made that gave us the money to finish the game for not making as much as we possibly could have from the game.
Very poor form for them to go on an Xbox branded podcast and trash the PS+ deal they made that helped them weather financial difficulties. It comes across like a jaded ex-spouse who is mad that their ex invested their half of the property division and made a profit from it.
ethomaz
Banned
He is salty because his game is bad and didn’t sell because it is bad.
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SF Kosmo
Banned
It was redeemed for free at a much higher rate than expected.
The extent to which this corresponds to lost sales is dubious, though. Soulstorm launched in rough shape to middling reviews, so much so that it had to "relaunch" as a fixed "enhanced edition" months later. It underperformed because the product was underwhelming.
Also, I would bet that a number of those people redeeming the game didn't even have PS5's yet, they were just redeeming it through their browser for the day they one day would.
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Captain Toad
Banned
What a crock. The game sucked. It was only downloaded so much BECAUSE it was free.
ReBurn
Gold Member
It's not that tough to understand. 3.9 million more people downloaded it for free than Oddworld Inhabitants expected. He thinks those 3.9 million people would have bought the game for money and his studio would have profited more,
I think this guy's ego is a bit inflated. I got the game on PS Plus. After sinking a few hours into it I wouldn't have paid for it. It's not that great. Something I might have tossed in the backlog for cheap during a holiday sale.
Skifi28
Member
More than 20, but less than 10 million.
remember_spinal
Banned
People also forget this game was in like 3 or 4 sony showcases/sop before it came out. Sony pushed this game hard to the point where we were all tired of seeing it, so its not surprising the playstation marketing push bumped its numbers.
At the end of the day the game was a dud. It probably didn’t sell for shit on xbox or pc either
At the end of the day the game was a dud. It probably didn’t sell for shit on xbox or pc either
DiddyKongRacing69
Member
nikolino840
Member
The game Is not even perfect...
remember_spinal
Banned
If anything i think sony overpaid for this. This game wouldn’t have sold 50k copies if not over-marketed by them
Ash Sparrow
Banned
I'm guessing they asked Sony for a back end deal and Sony said no.
So he wants the money to be scalable, if you sell more "free" copies you get paid more, because your game brought more people into the Sony ecosystem.
Sony or them had no crystal ball, but this lies with them not Sony. And you can only do better next time.
So he wants the money to be scalable, if you sell more "free" copies you get paid more, because your game brought more people into the Sony ecosystem.
Sony or them had no crystal ball, but this lies with them not Sony. And you can only do better next time.
itsjustJEFF
Member
I mean that is the risk you take, there is always a risk when you take these kinds of deals. You just never know if you took too little money, sometimes you get lucky and you get more. I don't know how the negotiations went or what kind of changes could have been made, but that's what you negotiated. Hindsight is always 20/20.
reinking
Gold Member
Yes. That was the question. Why are we talking download numbers when I am sure he has access to engagement numbers that show actual playtimes.
ethomaz
Banned
He has? I don't know how PS+ deal is done.
I mean if the deal is not about number of players using the App I don't think Sony shares it with them.
After all it was a pre-paid deal and the number os players using the App has no actual relevancy to it.
Sony probably shared the numbers of downloads with him.
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Dick Jones
Banned
Maybe he didn't realise that ps4 owners could redeem ps5 games on the ps app while they wait for a chance to get a PS5. I feel sorry for Lorne as the original PS1 games were and are awesome. I was hoping the game would do well as I love the Oddworld vibe. I redeemed it and I love it, faults and all. Maybe it's nostalgia (definitely is)
Oddvintagechap
Banned
I can promise him I would never buy his game. And I probably wont ever play it either.
I did press add though.
I did press add though.
Decontamination Silo
Banned
*Downloaded 4 million times
This statement is bait for investors. "look how much our game sells".
This statement is bait for investors. "look how much our game sells".
We don't know that. Phil has talked openly about how GP has multiple models and they talk to studios and publishers to see what's best for both parties. No reason that PS+ isn't similar.
I'd also argue lump sums are better for smaller projects, not worse. A big studio or publisher can ride out a few flops, small ones can't. The certainty of a lump sum is therefore beneficial, especially if you are very small or trying something new and you're unsure of reception.
That's even more the case if any of the amount is provided in advance.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Good games sell
Forgettable games don't
Regardless if on a service at one time or not.
Forgettable games don't
Regardless if on a service at one time or not.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
No doubt.
Long time ago I had job working for third party marketing companies. Me and my coworkers drove a van around town and gave out samples. Anything from new candy and chocolate bars, individual sized Vector cereal, whatever contract the company signed.
You'd do a sample run in 1 or 2 week cycles before moving onto the next product.
I must had given out like 100,000 pieces of candy...... stand at union station x handful of candy per person x probably 1000s people per day. We'd go through a van's worth of wholesale boxes fast. You'd give out shit so fast you cant even keep up reaching into your bag it dole it out.
I guess according to this metric (and that was only one location for two weeks), estimated sales would be 100,000 units!
And just like many of you who download stuff and never play it (me as well), samples are the same thing. You look at the nearby garbage bins later in the day and tons of people would throw out what you gave them. Most people didn't give a shit about sample sized cereal. They'll grab it. But they'll toss it.
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CrimsonSquall
Member
Why would you put a Non MTX game Day 1 on PS Plus. I actually do not understand the philosophy dead ass
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Isn’t this a problem with most day one new releases or games released shortly after release date on a subscription service? People actually think Sony releasing high production, expensive games that costs millions of dollars do one on a cheap subscription service is a good idea? Sure, it’s probably good for gamers, but the developers have to be losing a lot of money majority of the time by doing this.
Captain Toad
Banned
Source?
polybius80
Member
"PlayStation Plus is essentially Sony’s answer to Xbox Game Pass."
game journalism in the year 2022
game journalism in the year 2022
Dorago
Member
I've always liked Lorne but he tends to have his head halfway up his ass too. Four million downloads of a free game DOES NOT equal four million 'lost' sales. This is the same idiot logic they've always used for piracy too. Here's the number I really want to hear. How many people had a PS Plus account at this time and what were the download numbers of the other games offered during that period?
MasterCornholio
Member
Sounds like they should have negotiated it better. But then again COVID did catch many off guard. Still I don’t see how Sony is to blame for this since they did give them money that helped them complete the game.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
What in the world is this guy talking about PS5's so much for since the game was cross-gen? lol
He seems to just be kind of clueless either way; anyone with a + account could add his game to their library via web/app/their PS4 even if they wanted to wait to buy a PS5.
Not sure why that's a big deal for a channel about Xbox Gamepass to ask?
Anyways FF to about 1h13m30s in if you want to hear it. (i timestamped approx)
He seems to just be kind of clueless either way; anyone with a + account could add his game to their library via web/app/their PS4 even if they wanted to wait to buy a PS5.
They asked them their thoughts on sub services in general, and how they as devs view them in comparison.
Not sure why that's a big deal for a channel about Xbox Gamepass to ask?
Anyways FF to about 1h13m30s in if you want to hear it. (i timestamped approx)
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cash_longfellow
Member
Oddworld Dev Says PS Plus Free Game Deal Was’ Devastating’
Oddworld: Soulstorm developer calls PS Plus deal 'devastating.'gamerant.com
PlayStation Plus is essentially Sony’s answer to Xbox Game Pass. PS Plus offers subscribers two free games a month and can significantly help small and medium-sized studios who might not have the marketing budget to put their games out there. However, not every studio benefits from the arrangement, as Oddworld: Soulstorm exemplifies.
According to studio head Lorne Lanning, the agreement was evidently a disaster for developer Oddworld Inhabitants. He described the decision to bring Oddworld: Soulstorm to PS Plus as “devastating,” costing the studio a significant amount of money.
Lanning recently went on the Xbox Expansion Pass podcast. During the interview, he explained how the studio lost out on tens of millions of dollars due to the PS Plus deal. According to Lanning, Oddworld Inhabitants suffered from financial difficulties during Oddworld: Soulstorm’s development. The studio agreed to offer the game free for a month through PlayStation plus in exchange for an undisclosed sum. Oddworld Inhabitants negotiated the payment expecting Soulstorm to sell between 50,000 and 100,000 copies at launch. However, it ultimately moved more than 4 million units during the month it was free with PlayStation Plus.
The COVID-19 pandemic played a significant role in the problem. The outbreak forced developers to work from home, pushing the release of Oddworld: Soulstorm back to April 2021. While COVID delays were common during that time, it also meant that the PS5 had been on the market for three additional months. This resulted in the game having significantly more potential PS5 players than either Sony or Oddworld Inhabitants expected during their negotiations. As a result, Oddworld: Soulstorm saw more than 40 times more sales than the developer’s most optimistic estimate. That would usually be fantastic, but in this case, it meant the studio lost out on a staggering amount of money.
Nobody was buying that shit, get out of here with your pipe dreams. It’s Oddworld, there are like 15,000 fans in the world, lol.
Crimson_Fate
Member
First PS+ was not the answer to gamepass it was the answer to games with gold .
Second , you had to have a PS5 to get the PS+ game so they should have known how many PS5's have been sold and expected every one of them to gra0b the game , what did they expect with an April release ??
Third , everyone who picks up the game isn't lost revenue . I picked it up on PS+ and I have never even installed it ( like most of my PS+ titles) It is definitley nothing I would have purchased .
Obviously they were hard up for cash and signed a deal they now regret , no one to blame but themselves.
Second , you had to have a PS5 to get the PS+ game so they should have known how many PS5's have been sold and expected every one of them to gra0b the game , what did they expect with an April release ??
Third , everyone who picks up the game isn't lost revenue . I picked it up on PS+ and I have never even installed it ( like most of my PS+ titles) It is definitley nothing I would have purchased .
Obviously they were hard up for cash and signed a deal they now regret , no one to blame but themselves.
Gambit2483
Member
MS is only doing Gamepass because they can litterally afford to lose Millions of dollars for several years before its even halfway profitable.
It's the ultimate loss leader of the videogame business
Jaybe
Member
Great points. A quick correction though, chronologically PS+ And its free games were launched in 2010. Games with Gold started in 2013 as a response to PS+.
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
First of all, brand new games that do make it big from being free on PS+ from day 1, are usually multiplayer / F2P games like rocket league. The free month was enough to get the hype train going and then everyone else that hasnt heard about the game or didnt have PS+ wanted it as well because its an addicting online community game. Oddworld is a singleplayer game with zero replay value (unless you want to collect random crap) and was being offered as a next gen game when there was hardly any next gen only games. So a lot of people wanted to play it for that reason and because its a direct sequel finally to an old franchise. Game however didnt have any hype behind it.
Second, IMO I played two hours and was bored out of my mind, game looks like a low budget title and I doubt that many people would have actually bought it. Not to mention, there was barely any marketing about it, if it wasnt on PS+...like 10 people would know the game exists.
Second, IMO I played two hours and was bored out of my mind, game looks like a low budget title and I doubt that many people would have actually bought it. Not to mention, there was barely any marketing about it, if it wasnt on PS+...like 10 people would know the game exists.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
These are the facts
Shmunter
Member
PS+ puts a lot o focus on the monthly titles. The claim it or lose it is a clear fomo motivator. Whether people play it is a another matter, but claims are likely high.
On services like Gamepass this would not happen as much as it's not a claim, it's there as part of the all you can eat and you download it or not while it's on the service.
So no, ps+ claims do not indicate lost purchase numbers 1:1, however it can indicate popularity if downloads are higher or lower than other claims on the service.
On services like Gamepass this would not happen as much as it's not a claim, it's there as part of the all you can eat and you download it or not while it's on the service.
So no, ps+ claims do not indicate lost purchase numbers 1:1, however it can indicate popularity if downloads are higher or lower than other claims on the service.
Chris_Rivera
Member
That’s a huge assumption to make. Is he saying PS Plus downloads are somehow indicative of actual sales number?
If so he just sounds jaded.