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[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

You don't have 1000 scripts written in C# though.

scripts shouldn't take much memory though.

Libre office is "9,517,407 lines of code" but only takes 300~MB.

Games should tend to have significantly less than that.

edit: Unity engine environment with the 3d kart demo takes around 800~MB

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

Wow, there are some triggered fans here. I honestly like that the few here that are willing to discuss the topics, without shitting the thread up with blatant fanboyism. Why not ignore OP or leave the thread instead?

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I feel like a lot of what next-gen has to offer won't be realized until we can experience the games. A lot of generational iterations can be subtle, but noticeable when going backwards. Midway through this generation playing a game I found impressive during the prior generation can often make you realize what was a step forward this generation. Though my technical knowledge is limited and I'm often more attracted to art design than actual tech. That said certain types of tech DO fascinate me, destructibility and enemy animations, since I like shooters more than another genre these things matter to me more than most other tech advancements in terms of enjoying a good gunfight. AI as well I assume can be improved with this new tech and we can maybe have another golden age of AI like when I was dealing soldiers in Half-Life and elites in Halo.

 

[GaviotaGrande]

Wow thats awesome

It still boggles my mind, that hardly any games have pushed destruction forward more

Just cause and red Faction springs to mind instantly

I thought we would be past this by now, most games don't even have destructible light bulbs lol

Next gen consoles are getting a decent bump in CPU power so hopefully we will see more games with this kind of stuff.

Light bulbs are indestructible because in most games lighting is baked into the scene to save resources. Same applies to why objects of the scenery are static and can't be moved. It would break up the illusion.

 

[pasterpl]

Hope this thread will not become another hardware comparison thread (seen some ps5 io posts already).

/off topic

what I found interesting that fs2020 without ray tracing still looks stunning and lighting is just on another level bringing graphics in this title to photorealistic levels, I have never seen any other game being so close to reality in terms of looks.



based on this example, I think that rt, while nice feature is something that will not make games look next gen, I think it will be overused by some devs (clothes that reflect environment)

from what we have seen so far, I think that fs2020 is the only, proper next gen title we have seen so far (graphically and beyond graphics from purely tech perspective), reality is that the beginning of new gen rarely delivers a true next gen experience

 

[The_Mike]

PBR is used in most games these days so that alone can't be a quality of next gen.

So is Ray Tracing on pc, yet it's considered next gen magic

 

[Md Ray]

Don't forget about physics. All aspects: light, materials, animations, etc have improved this gen except physics.

An example (there are tons): Horizon Zero Dawn has amazing graphics but the non reactive environment makes me feel it as fake. Same for almost all games these days. It has no sense for me that Half-Life 2 has better physics that vast majority of AAA games from this gen. I hope next gen will start to pay attention to world physics again, if not, we will continue with these pretty but faked games.

This.
I really hope more emphasis is put on physics and interactivity early on in PS5/XSX gen due to vast improvement in CPU power.

 

[Md Ray]

VFXVeteran Here you go.

You can see here the foliage clipping on the rocks. It's everywhere and it's really disconcerting when in motion.

And here, the gun of the enemy in the middle is clipping through the crates. Also, I noticed the space/dropship that just dropped them off clips right through a tree... Again, really disconcerting in motion.

Again, this isn't anything new, tons, if not all games this gen have done this. It's just one of my personal pet peeves that I was hopping would be solved next gen. However, I'll say that the better a game looks graphically/artistically, the more this kind of thing stands out to me. So I was wondering if I still might get my wish at some point lol.

You'll see clipping even in one of the biggest Hollywood movies, Avengers Endgame.
Here's the clip (no pun intended):

 

[HAL-01]

A ps4 to ps5 comparison screenshot. Not only does the fur look like it have depth in cutscene motion but when it is at angles it appears to protrude significantly from the character generating a deep fur outline.

Both of those are PS4. It would help your case to include the real PS5 screenshot:

I also dont really agree with veteran's fixation on "real" hair simulation vs what R&C does. When your character's fur is about half an inch long, whats the point of physically simulating each individual strand when the end result will look near identical? No game developer will choose to go the more expensive way when a cheaper alternative gets 99% of the way there.

As for his fur example in Black Myth i dont find it particularly next gen, it is the same type of rudimentary clump based hair simulation we've seen this gen. Bloodborne makes great use of it. The creature in black myth has much shorter fur, allowing for much higher density, though with the same unrealistic stiffness



I would go for nvidia's hairworks demos as an example of the truly next-gen hair simulation we should expect.

 

[aries_71]

The more I experience ray-tracing games, the less impressed I am with the stuff. Playing Control with all bells and whistles turned on, and so far all I see is a few effects on reflecting surfaces. Watched also the BFV video above. They really are selling us a whole lotta of nothing.

 

[GaviotaGrande]

The more I experience ray-tracing games, the less impressed I am with the stuff. Playing Control with all bells and whistles turned on, and so far all I see is a few effects on reflecting surfaces. Watched also the BFV video above. They really are selling us a whole lotta of nothing.

Try harder.

 

[CrysisFreak]

Hope this thread will not become another hardware comparison thread (seen some ps5 io posts already).

/off topic

what I found interesting that fs2020 without ray tracing still looks stunning and lighting is just on another level bringing graphics in this title to photorealistic levels, I have never seen any other game being so close to reality in terms of looks.



based on this example, I think that rt, while nice feature is something that will make games look next gen, I think it will be overused by some devs (clothes that reflect environment)

from what we have seen so far, I think that fs2020 is the only, proper next gen title we have seen so far (graphically and beyond graphics from purely tech perspective), reality is that the beginning of new gen rarely delivers a true next gen experience

 

[aries_71]

Try harder.

I am, but I hardly see any graphical change that is not a very subtle one. In fact, while playing Control with a RTX2080, all raytracing effects on, I had to watch the Digital Foundy video, compare, and look for the effect in my screen. The jump from 30 to 60 frames por second is a much more important thing that all this raytracing fade.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

The Order: 1886 is truly a visual masterpiece.

Looking forward to this OT

 

[Lethal01]

I think the most important next gen qualifications comes down to looking pretty due to being designed with next gen features in mind.

If you slap raytraced reflections onto a game you just get a game with a next gen feature to advertise.

With something like R&C that has great art direction you really get the sense of it being next gen due to seeing people actually using the features wisely.
You stop and think "wow, nefarious looks fantastic "Those raytraced reflections are actually a huge benefit". Which is why many look at it and go THIS IS NEXT GEN, although some will try to write these comments off as just people being fanboys and ignoring another game that has the same feature or more.

A big qualifier is actually making art and sets that are seriously enhanced by the features rather than just getting the benefit of things looking better by default. When I switch a scene from realtime to raytraced It often needs significant changes to the lighting and materials to look (subjectively) pretty.. I don't see those changes happening in control or metro exodus although they do look way more realistic.

Trying to avoid anything that's subjective just gets in the way of logical thinking.

 

[INC]

I am, but I hardly see any graphical change that is not a very subtle one. In fact, while playing Control with a RTX2080, all raytracing effects on, I had to watch the Digital Foundy video, compare, and look for the effect in my screen. The jump from 30 to 60 frames por second is a much more important thing that all this raytracing fade.

RT isn't an "omg god next gen' fx tbh, it makes things look natural to me
Controls other fx are more impressive to me, from visual stand point, its the sum of its parts combined that are impressive, RT, volumetric smoke, particle fx
Shame its a 3rd person shooter, and I doubt I'll play it

 

[GymWolf]

Try harder.

 

[Pedro Motta]

You have to realize that R&C is coding around the SSD on the PS5 to load that fast. It doesn't just work automatically. If Insomniac implemented R&C on the XSX/PC, they could do the same fetch/store from an NvMe drive and it would be fast enough to be plausible. That's why I asked you what the bandwidth limit was. I wanted to see if you would you say "oh, it's using maximum throughput of 5.5G/s. So in the reveal we see it takes about 2s to load in a level. Perhaps a NvMe SSD @ 3.5G/s or 2.5G/s would take a little bit longer but it's possible."

Doesn't that sound more rationale, less fanboyish and promotes a healthy discussion?

Why are you calling me fanboy if I’m giving you facts? You say “if” Insomniac implemented it on PC like it would be possible, it’s not!
Can you explain how it would be possible? Even if you used unbuffered data from the NvMe the latency would still be huge, driver overhead would still be there and it would be more data error prone. Please, explain you way outta this.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Mod of War what was wrong with my post for it to be deleted?

 

[Zathalus]

The only qualification that something needs to be labeled as next-gen is that it is not possible to do the same game with the same quality on the previous generation of console hardware.

PC or what new technical features it brings to the table has got nothing to do with this.

 

[CrysisFreak]

The only qualification that something needs to be labeled as next-gen is that it is not possible to do the same game with the same quality on the previous generation of console hardware.

PC or what new technical features it brings to the table has got nothing to do with this.

This. PC has nothing to do with next-gen or current-gen or this-gen or that-gen, it's agnostic.
So yeah, I guess if you insist on implying PC is already next-gen because of RT you can roll with that, a bit on the cringy side but also correct.
There you go.
Also this "early next-gen is never really truly next-gen tbh famalam" narrative is lmao tier.
Wasn't ever true, won't be true now tbh.

 

[GymWolf]

Have you played the game?

 

[Dodkrake]

1. You are assuming full ram occupancy for a game level when it takes the game engine to still be in memory? How does that work?

You are twisting what I said to fit your narrative. + Or - 1 or 2GB, who cares? There's no PC on the market that has a Throughput of even 4GB/s.

Good talk.

 

[VFXVeteran]

scripts shouldn't take much memory though.

Libre office is "9,517,407 lines of code" but only takes 300~MB.

Games should tend to have significantly less than that.

edit: Unity engine environment with the 3d kart demo takes around 800~MB

You forget the OS and also, I want to make the claim that those levels in the game don't take up much memory. We aren't seeing 8k textures or full res Zbrush modeling here. I'm willing to bet if that game engine was ported to XSX or PC - they would both be able to load those scenes on-the-fly with a little bit of delay (OR they are using a fixed time interval of 2s no matter how fast your SSD is).

 

[VFXVeteran]

You are twisting what I said to fit your narrative. + Or - 1 or 2GB, who cares? There's no PC on the market that has a Throughput of even 4GB/s.

Good talk.

No doubt. I'm not denying that at all. PS5 has faster throughput. Period.

What I'm trying to get you to see is that there is no proof that the loading of the levels in 2s is using ALL of that bandwidth. It could very well be constrained to a fixed time interval instead of a bandwidth peak.

 

[VFXVeteran]

You'll see clipping even in one of the biggest Hollywood movies, Avengers Endgame.
Here's the clip (no pun intended):

Good catch!

We try our best to clean up every shot (that's what the VFX sup is supposed to do). Sometimes it gets missed. Not due to any bandwidth or memory problems in CG.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I feel like a lot of what next-gen has to offer won't be realized until we can experience the games. A lot of generational iterations can be subtle, but noticeable when going backwards. Midway through this generation playing a game I found impressive during the prior generation can often make you realize what was a step forward this generation. Though my technical knowledge is limited and I'm often more attracted to art design than actual tech. That said certain types of tech DO fascinate me, destructibility and enemy animations, since I like shooters more than another genre these things matter to me more than most other tech advancements in terms of enjoying a good gunfight. AI as well I assume can be improved with this new tech and we can maybe have another golden age of AI like when I was dealing soldiers in Half-Life and elites in Halo.

Hell yea dude!

We haven't had a company focus their attention on AI in a long time. It enhances the gameplay so much. I can imagine Tensor cores being computed for path finding or "learning" the main character's behavior. It could be sick tech!

Are you picking up the Avengers game? I loved using the Hulk in that beta. UE4 look pretty damn good in that game (I think that's what they are using, could be wrong).

 

[VFXVeteran]

Hope this thread will not become another hardware comparison thread (seen some ps5 io posts already).

/off topic

what I found interesting that fs2020 without ray tracing still looks stunning and lighting is just on another level bringing graphics in this title to photorealistic levels, I have never seen any other game being so close to reality in terms of looks.



based on this example, I think that rt, while nice feature is something that will make games look next gen, I think it will be overused by some devs (clothes that reflect environment)

from what we have seen so far, I think that fs2020 is the only, proper next gen title we have seen so far (graphically and beyond graphics from purely tech perspective), reality is that the beginning of new gen rarely delivers a true next gen experience

110% agree.

I will have to get in touch with someone from the team and ask a few questions because that photogrammetry and extensive use of ambient occlusion and the perfect light energy lumen is ridiculous.

We would LOVE to have some of that terrain code.

 

[Darius87]

No doubt. I'm not denying that at all. PS5 has faster throughput. Period.

What I'm trying to get you to see is that there is no proof that the loading of the levels in 2s is using ALL of that bandwidth. It could very well be constrained to a fixed time interval instead of a bandwidth peak.

it's not fixed portal transitions differ in time on average it's around 2s there's a video somewhere with timer.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I also dont really agree with veteran's fixation on "real" hair simulation vs what R&C does. When your character's fur is about half an inch long, whats the point of physically simulating each individual strand when the end result will look near identical? No game developer will choose to go the more expensive way when a cheaper alternative gets 99% of the way there.

Because real fur rendering allows for more accurate self-shadowing which will come off as very "full". Also you can add in the backscatter lobe (which is what Black Myth does) making it look significantly better.

As for his fur example in Black Myth i dont find it particularly next gen, it is the same type of rudimentary clump based hair simulation we've seen this gen. Bloodborne makes great use of it. The creature in black myth has much shorter fur, allowing for much higher density, though with the same unrealistic stiffness

The clump on Bloodborne looks significantly worse. The clumps are more abundant in BM and the shading/lighting is on another level.

I would go for nvidia's hairworks demos as an example of the truly next-gen hair simulation we should expect.

Hairworks has been implemented in Witcher 3 and it doesn't look good at all.

I think you are focusing on the geometry aspect while I'm focused on the shading aspect.

 

[VFXVeteran]

it's not fixed portal transitions differ in time on average it's around 2s there's a video somewhere with timer.

Right, I saw it. I was just stating that we don't know the memory footprint of the levels nor do we know the required bandwidth needed to load 2s.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I am, but I hardly see any graphical change that is not a very subtle one. In fact, while playing Control with a RTX2080, all raytracing effects on, I had to watch the Digital Foundy video, compare, and look for the effect in my screen. The jump from 30 to 60 frames por second is a much more important thing that all this raytracing fade.

Look for shadows being cast by objects in all the world. That's a dead giveaway. Nearly every game out right now can't capture small objects because there are no shadows for it. The end result is flat shading. RT will fix this. RT will give the world a more "grounded" appearance. In real life there are shadows everywhere.

Look at this video and focus on the books on the ground outside that porch (1:33). BEFORE - AFTER

 

[VFXVeteran]

Why are you calling me fanboy if I’m giving you facts? You say “if” Insomniac implemented it on PC like it would be possible, it’s not!
Can you explain how it would be possible? Even if you used unbuffered data from the NvMe the latency would still be huge, driver overhead would still be there and it would be more data error prone. Please, explain you way outta this.

I didn't call you a fanboy. I implied that your statements seem that way.

It can be possible because we don't know if the game is using a lot of memory to fetch those levels. Why? Consider. This game doesn't have 8k textures. It also doesn't have enormous geometry like CG production level geometry saved straight from Zbrush (ala, UE5 demo). We know that the PS5 has to hold it's OS in resident memory, and the entire game code in memory when playing the game. We have two things that we know. 1) It takes 2s to load the levels. 2) Bandwidth peak of the PS5's SSD @ 5.5G/s. But then we don't know other things. 1) Is the SSD drive using peak bandwidth to load in 2s (that would be 11G = 5.5 * 2) We know that's impossible because the OS uses up at most 4G (guessing here). That would leave 12G of VRAM left. Subtract the game code. 2) Is the 2s time interval a fixed number programmed by the engineers to allow the game 2s to load. If so they are artificially making it load in 2s but the bandwidth requirements for it could be much less than 5.5G/s. This is akin to making frames of animation of NPCs move around at half the refresh rate of the game. 3) We don't know how much VRAM each level loaded takes up on average.

So, not knowing all those things we certainly can't assume that XSX/PC are uncapable of running this game.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Nice find! I'm laughing at how good the destruction looks until you see it disappear immediately when it hits the floor. Bandwidth starved!!

 

[SatansReverence]

Multiqoute bro!

 

[Darius87]

It can be possible because we don't know if the game is using a lot of memory to fetch those levels.
Why? Consider. This game doesn't have 8k textures. It also doesn't have enormous geometry like CG production level geometry saved straight from Zbrush (ala, UE5 demo).

in this case more then raw throughput of data the problem is latency for PC, we know that PS5 loads textures already prepared to GPU from SSD though PC SSD would go to gpu drivers, kernel, cpu back and fort just to prepare textures for GPU thus increasing latency and anyway PC's SSD's throughput isn't sustained unlike PS5 so big bottleneck even assuming R&C levels aren't that big clearly it would be way more then average 2s on PS5 even twice would not be good and would break immersion.

We know that the PS5 has to hold it's OS in resident memory, and the entire game code in memory when playing the game. We have two things that we know. 1) It takes 2s to load the levels. 2) Bandwidth peak of the PS5's SSD @ 5.5G/s.

1) not all levels are equal in size
2) PS5 SSD have sustained throughput no mater granularity of data so always around 5.5gb/s.

But then we don't know other things. 1) Is the SSD drive using peak bandwidth to load in 2s (that would be 11G = 5.5 * 2) We know that's impossible because the OS uses up at most 4G (guessing here). That would leave 12G of VRAM left. Subtract the game code. 2) Is the 2s time interval a fixed number programmed by the engineers to allow the game 2s to load. If so they are artificially making it load in 2s but the bandwidth requirements for it could be much less than 5.5G/s. This is akin to making frames of animation of NPCs move around at half the refresh rate of the game. 3) We don't know how much VRAM each level loaded takes up on average.

1) yes sustained like i said
2) 2GB for PS5 os
2) it's not fixed there's level loading in 3s

So, not knowing all those things we certainly can't assume that XSX/PC are uncapable of running this game.

you have to adjust your thinking to reconcile it with reality that it's not possible to do such things on current PC SSD's otherwise why PC doesn't have games to utilize PC SSD's before? what's the obstacle?

 

[Pedro Motta]

So, not knowing all those things we certainly can't assume that XSX/PC are uncapable of running this game

I never ever mentioned XSX, I said PC wouldn't be able to run the game the same way. I actually believe XSX would be able to play this with no issues. Only later in the gen there will be some distancing between PS5 and XSX IO tech.

 

[Lethal01]

Nice find! I'm laughing at how good the destruction looks until you see it disappear immediately when it hits the floor. Bandwidth starved!!

This could really be a matter of design. You want the cool moment the thing explodes but you don't want the level covered in the huge amount of debree that's created when you kill 10 guys in one spot. Could be Gpu constrained but I know for many it's just a choice in how the want things too look.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

You'll see clipping even in one of the biggest Hollywood movies, Avengers Endgame.
Here's the clip (no pun intended):

There is truly no hope... I'm crushed.

 

[Bartski]

good thread!

I really hope more emphasis is put on physics and interactivity early on in PS5/XSX gen due to vast improvement in CPU power.

This is all I hope for really. I think all that has to do with collision and object to object physics interaction is so much more important than more accurate light/hair/cloth etc sim, and sadly this is one area that this gen failed me greatly in how much things have improved vs how much I hoped they will by the end of PS3.

One thing I can't get my head around is why it is also such a low priority to make any of the impact you have on the game world persistent.

Control looks great but as soon as you leave the room and come back to it - everything is clean as it was before the battle.
This might seem like an extreme example due to the amount of debris you leave behind, but let's look at something seemingly simpler:

Dead enemies. Why is it so hard not to despawn them? To me that might be the no.1 immersion breaking thing in many modern games. Those models were in the scene a moment before, all animating with their own fx and AI-enabled, now it's ragdoll in best case scenario, why do they need to vanish after having most of their math-heavy functions disabled? I'm not talking about fantasy/DOOM/God of War, where a Draugr dissolves in a cloud of particles which totally makes sense in the lore, I mean games that aim for realistic/grounded feel and aesthetic and yet nobody seems to give a shit. I find it strange. I want to leave all the carnage behind me and paint walls with blood, like the good old days of 90's fps games where slain enemies were a tool of navigating the environment marking rooms you've already been to while backtracking

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Hell yea dude!

We haven't had a company focus their attention on AI in a long time. It enhances the gameplay so much. I can imagine Tensor cores being computed for path finding or "learning" the main character's behavior. It could be sick tech!

Are you picking up the Avengers game? I loved using the Hulk in that beta. UE4 look pretty damn good in that game (I think that's what they are using, could be wrong).

I didn't experience the beta so I can't say for sure if it's a game I'd pick up. The reviews will matter for me and what's competing for my attention as well. Disposable income as well, hah. Wondering if the game is going to Gamepass?

 

[Vognerful]

Both of those are PS4. It would help your case to include the real PS5 screenshot:

I also dont really agree with veteran's fixation on "real" hair simulation vs what R&C does. When your character's fur is about half an inch long, whats the point of physically simulating each individual strand when the end result will look near identical? No game developer will choose to go the more expensive way when a cheaper alternative gets 99% of the way there.

As for his fur example in Black Myth i dont find it particularly next gen, it is the same type of rudimentary clump based hair simulation we've seen this gen. Bloodborne makes great use of it. The creature in black myth has much shorter fur, allowing for much higher density, though with the same unrealistic stiffness



I would go for nvidia's hairworks demos as an example of the truly next-gen hair simulation we should expect.

I got confused by his pictured and I was afraid of being accused of shitting on RnC. thanks for providing the correct one!

 

[Vognerful]

in this case more then raw throughput of data the problem is latency for PC, we know that PS5 loads textures already prepared to GPU from SSD though PC SSD would go to gpu drivers, kernel, cpu back and fort just to prepare textures for GPU thus increasing latency and anyway PC's SSD's throughput isn't sustained unlike PS5 so big bottleneck even assuming R&C levels aren't that big clearly it would be way more then average 2s on PS5 even twice would not be good and would break immersion.


1) not all levels are equal in size
2) PS5 SSD have sustained throughput no mater granularity of data so always around 5.5gb/s.


1) yes sustained like i said
2) 2GB for PS5 os
2) it's not fixed there's level loading in 3s

you have to adjust your thinking to reconcile it with reality that it's not possible to do such things on current PC SSD's otherwise why PC doesn't have games to utilize PC SSD's before? what's the obstacle?

sorry but where is the proof that PS5 SSD read/write and seeking times are sustainable?

 

[VFXVeteran]

I never ever mentioned XSX, I said PC wouldn't be able to run the game the same way. I actually believe XSX would be able to play this with no issues. Only later in the gen there will be some distancing between PS5 and XSX IO tech.

Let's put it this way. Give the team the benefit of the doubt. They could easily structure their game to be played on the PC. The bottleneck will always be bandwidth of the GPU. I'm 99% sure that the team would be able to make it work flawlessly with a PC AND with added RTX and 4k/60FPS.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I'm going to say my defenses are going up for that hair boss in Wukong. Remember, we have no idea what the demo hardware was running on, and that smells of the sort of effect that would bring the top most GPUs to their knees because it's incredibly heavy and bottlenecks one aspect of rendering. Not knowing what it was rendered on, the framerate visibly faltering, and the fact that it was a video for recruiting more talent and the game is far from done all make me remind myself of the possibility of a downgrade by production, that some things were pushed to the extreme to be impressive but the actual game they will want runnable on more hardware.

 

[Lethal01]

Let's put it this way. Give the team the benefit of the doubt. They could easily structure their game to be played on the PC. The bottleneck will always be bandwidth of the GPU. I'm 99% sure that the team would be able to make it work flawlessly with a PC AND with added RTX and 4k/60FPS.

What exactly do you mean by "structure the game to work on pc", Sounds like you could mean changing things about the game itself "level design" "timing of the action" which would be missing the point.

 

[Lethal01]

good thread!



This is all I hope for really. I think all that has to do with collision and object to object physics interaction is so much more important than more accurate light/hair/cloth etc sim, and sadly this is one area that this gen failed me greatly in how much things have improved vs how much I hoped they will by the end of PS3.

One thing I can't get my head around is why it is also such a low priority to make any of the impact you have on the game world persistent.

Control looks great but as soon as you leave the room and come back to it - everything is clean as it was before the battle.
This might seem like an extreme example due to the amount of debris you leave behind, but let's look at something seemingly simpler:

Dead enemies. Why is it so hard not to despawn them? To me that might be the no.1 immersion breaking thing in many modern games. Those models were in the scene a moment before, all animating with their own fx and AI-enabled, now it's ragdoll in best case scenario, why do they need to vanish after having most of their math-heavy functions disabled? I'm not talking about fantasy/DOOM/God of War, where a Draugr dissolves in a cloud of particles which totally makes sense in the lore, I mean games that aim for realistic/grounded feel and aesthetic and yet nobody seems to give a shit. I find it strange. I want to leave all the carnage behind me and paint walls with blood, like the good old days of 90's fps games where slain enemies were a tool of navigating the environment marking rooms you've already been to while backtracking

For me having bodies stay present just really doesn't add much so I'm happy it's not a priority. Unless we are talking something like Minecraft I think what you personally want just isn't lining up with what the majority thinks is important right now.

 

[Darius87]

Nice find! I'm laughing at how good the destruction looks until you see it disappear immediately when it hits the floor. Bandwidth starved!!

what nonsense is this you're the one who say wee need to know size of data for levels of R&C just to know if it's possible to do same on PC SSD's but now without knowing GPU BW throughput for R&C you telling that is BW starved.
it most likely design choice because destruction all over the place would impede locomotion and aiming for player.

 

[Darius87]

sorry but where is the proof that PS5 SSD read/write and seeking times are sustainable?

i don't know about writes but it doesn't matter for game performance
here's quote from Tim Sweeney:

I’m referring to actual speed, not theoretical specs. PS5 can transfer and decompress textures and geometry from storage directly into video memory without CPU decompression and driver abstraction overhead, which makes the overall perf much higher than PC.

here's quote from PS5 SSD patent how to achieve 5Gb/s for very small files:

to achieve 5gb/s for example 4KiB of data granularity level per request it is necessary to complete processing in 0.8 useconds per request if time of completion is longer then that the transfer rate naturally will be lower.

here's is Cerny saying PS5 SSD could stream 4gb of textures which are behind the players vision in half a second


here's slide from road to PS5 showing SSD could stream 1 second game time of data into RAM

 

[aries_71]

RT isn't an "omg god next gen' fx tbh, it makes things look natural to me
Controls other fx are more impressive to me, from visual stand point, its the sum of its parts combined that are impressive, RT, volumetric smoke, particle fx
Shame its a 3rd person shooter, and I doubt I'll play it

Agreed. So far, from my

Look for shadows being cast by objects in all the world. That's a dead giveaway. Nearly every game out right now can't capture small objects because there are no shadows for it. The end result is flat shading. RT will fix this. RT will give the world a more "grounded" appearance. In real life there are shadows everywhere.

Look at this video and focus on the books on the ground outside that porch (1:33). BEFORE - AFTER

Thanks for the video, it's interesting, but this exactly what I'm saying. There's no way you can notice these RT effects unless an expert point them at you. You have to point me exactly at the books at 1:33 to see the before and after; no way I would have noticed by myself (no mention that the stair reflection on the windows is so exaggerated than it doesn't really help to look more realistic).

In the case of Control, this RT technology is very nice, but the effects are so subtle that I would rather have them spend more time having more complex geometry, or having models/animations that look realistic (right now they are pretty bad).