• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Perhaps VR can finally take off if VR headset makers bundle appealing software for free with each headset sold?

VR makers should bundle high-quality APPEALING software with their headsets?

  • Yes

    Votes: 19 57.6%
  • No

    Votes: 14 42.4%

  • Total voters
    33
VR has been in a rut lately, and apparently 1Q23 isn't looking to hot either so far from reports I'm seeing, but I wonder if the mistake has been a lack of pack-ins, top software bundled with a headset?

I mean think about it, one or two software with mass appeal that make a headset(s) attractive (sorry Alyx) could be a gateway, then if producing more quality content, the consumer will then buy those as well. But the idea is to get people to "jump in" to VR, then back that up with software once they do so they stay on board in the long run.

Example, ~18 million Quest headsets sold, software sales are terrible. Best selling software? Beat Saber. Software with most money spend on it? Horizon Worlds.

While we don't know what HW sold, we know it's failing, we DO know the successful Beat Saber sold over 4 million in 2021, and is around 5 million by now across all headsets, mainly on Quest 2.

Now people were all in on the Beat Saber hype. It was a fad that could sell headsets. But imagine how much more Beat Saber could have sold and how many more headsets it could have moved, if from DAY 1, it was bundled with every Quest 2 headset? Or maybe even a double bundle with Beat Saber and another software, maybe a social app? If it's appealing enough that consumers pull the trigger or right on the edge of doing so, that can make a world of change. Because now you have more people joining the VR market because of software and all makers would have to do is have more stuff in line to keep them interested.

For example, imagine if HTC headsets were bundled with Job Simulator and some exclusive social gaming app. Or imagine if PSVR1 came bundled with Super Hot VR which sold 2 million copies across the board. Which was also a big hit for a time.

Many of these games stalled, because only a few people really got them. They died off and were replaced by other marketed software, or could only reach so far because the software required you to take a chance on the hardware to even find out if they existed or were worth playing, and those who did loved them. Now, the only time we usually see appealing (to general consumers) software bundled with a headset is during desperation sales. I think this needs to change.

But if you remove that barrier and make it so that something a consumer is interested in, will be available to them right at the start, then they are buying the headset for that software, and not just to take a risk on an experience.

Imagine Beat Saber, ~25 copies sold with 25 million Quest 2 headset sales, instead of ~18 million headset sales with bad general software sales, and only 5 million Beat Saber sales.

I think that there needs to be a push to entice the consumer to enter the VR market, then appeal to them and get them to stay, instead of going over board trying to get/convince the consumer to take the risk on bare hardware, then get access to the software they may find appealing later. If they find that software, if not then we end up in the current situation they drop the headset in the closet after a week.

With this simple change, not only do I think VR will finally grow, but I also believe that we will have more competition among VR headset makers, instead of consolidation to one leader.
 

Jinzo Prime

Member
wii_wii_sports_p_y2z8ju.jpg


Smart idea.
 

SeraphJan

Member
Software will be the key for VR to succeed, people paying extra to purchase the device for realism, however most VR game are low budget games, experiences like Alyx, RE8, CotM are rare but are what its needed for VR to succeed IMO
 
Last edited:
For me, they have to figure out how to make VR enhance traditional games you play with normal controllers. Create a viewpoint or point of view that's an extension of a normal television, but that takes advantage of the immersion VR can make possible. Make it something relatively easy to apply to multiple different games without too much effort. Once the VR-enhanced experience can be totally separated from games specifically built for VR (sounds strange, I know), only then will it truly be able to become something that more people invest in to enhance their gaming experiences the same way someone might want a new model LG OLED instead of a 1080p television.

In other words, find a way to make VR enhance games built for a traditional television experience and watch VR start to take off. This way the VR headset you bought isn't JUST useful for heavily tailored software, which honestly will never see the type of massive investment that traditional games experiences are getting. It needs to become the equivalent of supporting rumble in a game or adding trophies or supporting the PS5's adaptive triggers.

That is how VR takes off. Make people see value in it besides just the few pieces of software heavily tailored to it. Then more mainstream as well as hardcore gamers will start seeking them out in much larger numbers.
 
Last edited:
For me, they have to figure out how to make VR enhance traditional games you play with normal controllers. Create a viewpoint or point of view that's an extension of a normal television, but that takes advantage of the immersion VR can make possible. Make it something relatively easy to apply to multiple different games without too much effort. Once the VR-enhanced experience can be totally separated from games specifically built for VR (sounds strange, I know), only then will it truly be able to become something that more people invest in to enhance their gaming experiences the same way someone might want a new model LG OLED instead of a 1080p television.
yes.

VR should be the IMAX of videogames.
 

Sleepwalker

Member
The quest 2 doesnt sell as much software because pirating games on it is super easy and theres no enforcement against it. As long as you have the latest version of the app you're good to go, even to play online.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
2 biggest reason it personally appeal to me is it doesn't have the type of games I usually play and its way too expensive, paying $750 for this is asking way too much.
 
Last edited:

Robb

Gold Member
That would definitely help. Price and lack of software are the biggest hurdles from what I’ve seen.
 
At least Eddie has another reference for his made up 5 million sold for Beat Saber. He can now claim that multiple threads on this forum have stated that figure.
Wow, what a move, 4D chess
Big Brain Move

These people beleive 5 million Beat Saber sold is made up" when it's actually "common sense".

Apparently these people believe that after selling over 4 million in 2021, Beat Saber, one of the most popular games in the medium, stopped selling the last two years until now. Which is impossible..

But with a little thought, it would seem obvious that it's very likely one of the leading pieces of software in ALL of VR (especially since it's been in the discussion still all this time with general users) which sold over 4 million in 2021, continued to sell. I know crazy concept, for the last two years, and also probably right now today.
 
Last edited:

XXL

Member
We have here 3 people with near absent intellect, agreeing that 5 million Beat Saber sold is made up" when it's actually "common sense".

But with a little critical thinking, it would seem obvious that it's very likely one of the leading pieces of software in ALL of VR continued to sell (especially since it's been in the discussion still all this time with general users) which sold over 4 million in 2021, continued to sell. I know crazy concept, for the last two years, and also probably right now today.
Justin Timberlake What GIF

A few days ago you didn't even understand what YTD meant.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ps5-...-monthly-charts.1653871/page-3#post-267693843

No one should be listening to ANYTHING you say about sales numbers.

The fact this site allows you do what you do is INSANE.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
We have here 3 people with near absent intellect, agreeing that 5 million Beat Saber sold is made up" when it's actually "common sense".

Apparently these people believe that after selling over 4 million in 2021, Beat Saber, one of the most popular games in the medium, stopped selling the last two years until now. There basis for this is... nothing.

But with a little critical thinking, it would seem obvious that it's very likely one of the leading pieces of software in ALL of VR continued to sell (especially since it's been in the discussion still all this time with general users) which sold over 4 million in 2021, continued to sell. I know crazy concept, for the last two years, and also probably right now today.
You get me wrong I am saying that 5 million is way to low. They announced 4 million Feb 21, when the biggest VR headset ever was only a few months old.
beat-saber-average-units-per-day.png

Even if it dropped to 2500 a day for the next 2 years (while Quest 2 exploded) it would still have added roughly 2 million.
Like I said 5 million seems way underestimated but we have no solid (or vague for that matter) data for the 2 years that Quest 2 added millions of units.
 

You literally self-owned yourself with that link. I never argued YTD in that entire thread, Drings post clearly said DIRECTLY that Xbox was up 15% this February from last February, and now you're bringing that reading mistake here too? The other guy literally moved the goal posts to save face because he misread the post just like you did, trying to act like I missed some obvious fact about YTD, yet I never mentioned it once, and ONLY mentioned that Xbox was up 15% from February which is true and in the your own quote you just linked.

Some of you guys just don't use your heads.

What's worse is my original quote was To YOU, saying with no evidence, that Hogwarts did nothing for Xbox, which came out in Feb, and I pointed out it was up compared to last February, which may mean Hogwarts might have had some impact. Then people's brain shut off after it and kept bringing up things I never actually said like YTD.



Pretty clear to me.

You get me wrong I am saying that 5 million is way to low. They announced 4 million Feb 21, when the biggest VR headset ever was only a few months old.

I'm only saying that 5 million is likely the floor. We don't know where it's actually at because Zucker has been scared to give us software numbers since the Horizon Worlds leak some time ago. Sure we don't know the LTD, but many people, including tech and gaming outlets, are still using 4 million, which at this point outside of a major catastrophe, can't possibly be the floor.
 
Last edited:

Danknugz

Member
Beat sabre would not make a headset more appealing to me. Games like that really frustrate me because they're not VR. They're corny mobile games with a screen strapped to your face.
 

At this point you are proving you are not misreading, but just refusing to read so you can make something up.

Notice, that he quoted the same post you quoted. Yet it said nothing about YTD. I know you actually SEE that, and he also got my post mixed u with another user who was making a completely different point.

So the question is now why are you pretending that I ever mentioned YTD when I didn't? You KNOW that I didn't say YTD, this link contradicts your previous once, sonce my original post about Xbox being u 15% from Feb 2022 from THIS Feb, was to YOU. And YOU didn't mentioned YTD either.

Sorry, but pretending I said something I never said isn't going to work.



Guy clearly says up 15% from LAST LAST LAST February. That is all my post you have now linked to twice said, and is the only part of his tweet where he brings up 15%. He only mentioned YTD separately at the end which had nothing to do with him bringing up 15%, you didn't read the tweet or my post correctly, neither did the other guy. This is not a winnable argument for you.
 
Last edited:

FoxMcChief

Gold Member
No. I think in order for VR to truly take off, Sony or Nintendo would need to have bundled with their next console.

Nintendo VR makes too much sense, when you think about what the Quest 2/3 can do and the controller tech they have previously with the switch would work great.
 
Last edited:
No. I think in order for VR to truly take off, Sony or Nintendo would need to have bundled with their next console.

Nintendo VR makes too much sense, when you think about what the Quest 2/3 can do and the controller tech they have previously with the switch would work great.

Nintendo tried bunding Labo VR and it didn't work.
 

RoboFu

One of the green rats
Nope, people want to relax and play games. You do a lot more complex actions on a tv with a controller.

VR will never take over until you can “ matrix “ into a game.
 

lukilladog

Member
The problem with VR is that it is too hardcore of a recreational activity, and even a bit repulsive, I've seen lots of people with access to a headset that would rather play nothing... so a free game is not gonna change that.
 
Last edited:

darthvargi

Member
I'm seeing a lot of incorrect or at least misleading information here. The Vive did come with Job Simulator at launch or at least I got a code. Of course it wasn't cheap or mainstream at all in 2016.

Also the Labo is 3 DoF. Saying it as an example of VR failure is ridiculous. It's not even a VR headset in my opinion.

Meta has had various packin games too such as The Climb with the Rift and later included Vader Immortal with the Quest and finally has also included RE4, Beat Saber, and Golf+ to name a few of various bundles. I'm not sure they hurt sales but they didn't really push hardware. Same with PlayStation bundles, I got my PSVR with PS Worlds in 2016 but there also have been a few other bundles (such as the amazing Astrobot bundle).

It doesn't move the needle much. The problem with VR isn't the tech or even the software in my opinion, it's people. I see tons of stuff like "oh it's 3dtv again" or it has only a few killer apps. I suspect most have never even tried real VR or they certainly wouldn't be saying that but the barrier to really try it starts at $400 USD. It's a huge risk so many just won't do it and since COVID you will rarely get an opportunity to try it.
 
I'm seeing a lot of incorrect or at least misleading information here. The Vive did come with Job Simulator at launch or at least I got a code. Of course it wasn't cheap or mainstream at all in 2016.

Most Vibes never came with it, and when it did it was for a short time.

I am talking about Wii Sports, Kinect Adventures, level of bundling here.


Also the Labo is 3 DoF. Saying it as an example of VR failure

No one said this.

Meta has had various packin games too such as The Climb with the Rift and later included Vader Immortal with the Quest and finally has also included RE4, Beat Saber, and Golf+ to name a few of various bundles.

You're talking about pack-ins with limited appeal, and then Quest pack-ins that were done to save sales units.

If Beat Saber was packed-in with Quest 2 it would be at over 15+ million sales right now, and maybe even more since that may entice people to by more Quests. For some time, Quest had no games, or poor unappealing stuff bundled (or mass marketed like Horizon Worlds) while they kept the more appealing stuff out of range, meaning that the headset maker has to convince the consumer to take a chance to see if they will find appealing stuff once they jumped in.

Because of several fads titles, and casual friendly games along with a cheaper price, Quest was able to not have to deal with this too much. But for OTHER headsets, convincing the consumer to jump into hardware without really knowing where that's going to go ended up being much harder. Which is why we saw low selling competition to a niche, and consolidation around the Quest 2.

It doesn't move the needle much. The problem with VR isn't the tech or even the software in my opinion, it's people. I see tons of stuff like "oh it's 3dtv again" or it has only a few killer apps. I suspect most have never even tried real VR or they certainly wouldn't be saying that but the barrier to really try it starts at $400 USD. It's a huge risk so many just won't do it and since COVID you will rarely get an opportunity to try it.

Right, so if there's a demo, good reviews by non-tech or gaming enthusiasts sites, and good wom for a game, like Beat Saber, then more people will think that's an appealing game to get into and will take the chance to see if there's anything else appealing to enjoy the VR experience.

If there is no incentive, the consumer is basically going off of nothing that really appeals to them, or they aren't able to see themselves enjoying something, so they would have to take more risk and outside of the Quest 2, spend more money, to see if VR is for them, which many consumers just will not take that risk.

Then when there are titles that can be used, the question becomes it it worth to pay more for that game, when they can play that game just fine at adequate performance and graphics, on a cheaper headset? Which is why heavy porting is also part of the problem for the adoption of other headsets in the past.

The only time that consumers were will to take a risk for the hardware directly was back in 2015-2017 where there were $20-$99 headsets that could give a novel experience for the price that was more than enough for a few weeks or a month before throwing your cardboard away, or realizing your Gear VR will need you to pay $800 for a new phone for best performance.
 

FoxMcChief

Gold Member
You want a main console that is VR-only? That will be quickly outdated in 2 years which messes up dev support cycles?
That’s why it would be best for a Nintendo to do, imo. With their many internal studios and IP. Less reliant on third parties. Switch has been outdated since it launched, yet it still remains and still sells very well.

VR needs a Nintendo. Mario Kart in VR will do more for the medium than anything in the last 10 years.
 

Crayon

Member
Bundles are great but rn there's very w killers to bundle in the first place. Alyx, gt7, re8, re4, maybe walking dead.

Or I should say that that's enough to make some interesting bundles, but there's not enough of those in the VR market at large. That's the number one hurdle for VR gaming right now and it's looking up but there's still a long road ahead.
 

SJRB

Gold Member
VR is never going to take off and you can quote me on this in 10 years.

It's just not happening, bro.
 
That’s why it would be best for a Nintendo to do, imo. With their many internal studios and IP. Less reliant on third parties.

Switch is a handheld, and can run decent ports of some games console can run at lower performance and resolution.

a VR only game console would be an expensive mess (opposite of Nintendo strategy) that would require an accessory with numerous of its own problems to play (also opposite of Nintendos strategy) and people may have their own personal problems with playing on it (Dizzy, motion sickness, blurred visiion, etc) and would have to convert all their team to a format that will limit what kind of experienced they could put out (also opposite of Nintendo's strategy) on a platform that is going to be incredibly outdated within two years more than the Switch was with no upgrade path (because it's a console you're theorizing) because they aren't going to likely be overspending to have a VR console years ahead of the curve, which would make Apples rumored $3000 price point seem like a bargain even if they did.

VR needs a Nintendo. Mario Kart in VR will do more for the medium than anything in the last 10 years.

Mario Kart in VR will have people rush to play Mario Kart on their smartphone if a VR console was the only other option.
 
Bundles are great but rn there's very w killers to bundle in the first place. Alyx, gt7, re8, re4, maybe walking dead.

This is kind of the problem here, you aren't thinking of games that are actually appealing to the users that actually need to BUY the headsets. Instead of listing those games you should be listing, Gorilla Tag VR, Super Hot, Among Us VR, and Beat Saber. The games that get peope to buy headsets outside of a niche in significant number.

Although GT7 bundled for free which Sony won't do, could get some less hardcore PS5 gamers on board.

Heck Among Us sold over 1 million in less than 3 months, who knows where it's at not still looks to be hot. That's a recent release, those are the games people want in order to convince them to by headsets. At least for now, but later maybe those other games will be more appealing outside a hardcore base, but that's not right now.
 
Last edited:

Crayon

Member
This is kind of the problem here, you aren't thinking of games that are actually appealing to the users that actually need to BUY the headset. Instead of listing those games you should be listing, Gorilla Tag VR, Super Hot, Among Us VR< and Beat Saber. The games that get peope to buy headsets outside of a niche in significant number.

Yeah idk what to say to that. GT and Resident evil are big aaa's which if you listen to the gaming community is exactly what everyone has been crying for for like 6 years.
 

FoxMcChief

Gold Member
Yeah idk what to say to that. GT and Resident evil are big aaa's which if you listen to the gaming community is exactly what everyone has been crying for for like 6 years.
They’re not the right AAA. I can’t tell you what the right one is, because there isn’t a past example. Alyx is the closest.
 
Yeah idk what to say to that. GT and Resident evil are big aaa's which if you listen to the gaming community is exactly what everyone has been crying for for like 6 years.

So I'm going to repeat what I said before that you skipped,

This is kind of the problem here, you aren't thinking of games that are actually appealing to the users that actually need to BUY the headsets.


Heck Among Us sold over 1 million in less than 3 months, who knows where it's at not still looks to be hot. That's a recent release,
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom