Support NeoGAF

[Draugoth]

Source​

“There’s a rhythm to [Phantom Blade Zero’s] combat, but in general it’s much faster than the average soulslike. We were actually inspired by the old-fashioned combo-driven action in games like Ninja Gaiden and Metal Gear Solid Rising, which not many people play anymore. Those games are our favorites, but nowadays, younger players might find these games too hardcore, so we needed to add extra accessibility.

“We put those fast-paced combos into a soulslike map, which is a new combination,” he continues. “But that also created a lot of challenges for us, like the camera angles. I think it’s gone pretty well. We love the idea of doing something really new and unique that incorporates all of the basic elements from the classic games that we love.”

The conversation naturally moves into a discussion of difficulty, the element that, of course, acts as a blessing and a curse for the soulslike genre. I ask if the team wants to truly test your mettle with Phantom Blade Zero.

“From the beginning, we decided we weren’t going to do another soulslike game,” Soulframe tells me. “We think the difficulties and frustrations you experience in a normal souls game can’t be the main part of the game. So we wanted to remove the frustrating parts, and add more positive feedback; every dodge, every perfect parry will reward you with fancy animations and Ghoststeps.”

The game also features difficulty options, which aren’t available in many other soulslikes – “this means you don’t have as much punishment when you die,” he tells me. “We want our players to enjoy the pure combat, the story, and the world; that’s the point.

“As a new studio, I don’t think we have the privilege of FromSoftware to make you frustrated while you’re playing. We’d rather keep it accessible to everyone so that everyone can enjoy it.”

 

[Represent.]

Good call, and he's right.

 

[Darko]

Nice

*throws Elden ring copy in the trash*

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

I like to hear this. I like a challenge in my games but sometimes I just want to relax and play on normal difficulty. It's nice to have options.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I disagree. Good hack and slash are also difficult but the genre has gone casual since DMC 3, the last really great one, from a challenge perspective (you can beat Bayonetta and the last two DMC games with three fingers).

I want difficult enemies that force me to learn their patterns and how to optimize my skills. The last 5 bosses in Stellar Blade is an example of what I wished for this one.

 

[Punished Miku]

Sounds good to me.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

From Software needs to acknowledge their privilege and actively work toward equality.

 

[InterMusketeer]

FromSoft privilege? You think they had that back in '09 when they struggled to even get Demon's Souls published in the West? C'mon now. It's fine if your game includes a difficulty option, but defending your choice like that just sounds ignorant.

 

[Aenima]

Thats great.. Not every game needs to be a copy/pasta of a souls game.

 

[The Infectious Paradox]

I was gonna say PUSSY, but I guess Aenima is right. I reconsidered.

 

[Bring Back Scalebound]

I hope it doesn't go the "a game made for everyone, is a game for no one" direction...

Cool and flashy animations without the required skill to pull it off (optional or otherwise), is the equivalent of those 2 minute long Summon animations in Final Fantasy games, that end up doing 570 damage.
Or Modern Controls in fighting games.

Certain genres thrive on non-surface level execution to get that part of your brain massaged.
A 2 minute long Summon animation only feels satisfying if, 1 - It spends a good chunk of MP, and 2 - Actually does devastating damage.

But I'm biased here, because I like those "hardcore" games. Even if I never got a Pure Platinum in Bayonetta, I like the fact that I CAN get there.
As long as they design the difficulty settings well, it will work as a game for "everyone". Best of luck on that.

Also, this is a pet peeve, but I wish Souls-Like devs could stand on their own feet and not having to refer back to FromSoft.
Just do their own thing. Let the people do that, because they certainly will...

It's already annoying that the genre is called "Souls-Like"...

 

[Mister Wolf]

They don't have the luxury to release games with awful performance like From Software as well.

 

[The Infectious Paradox]

They don't have the luxury to release games with awful performance like From Software as well.

 

[Aion002]

Awesome. As much as I love souls games, I also love traditional action games like Ninja Gaiden and unfortunately there are not many of them these days, hopefully this game will be great.

It's also good that they're adding difficulty modes, so more people can enjoy the game. I think that single player games should always have difficulty modes, not everyone has the skill and/or patience to deal with challenging games.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Hmmm, assuming it reviews fairly well I'll pick it up and play it on hard or very hard.

 

[Jurry132]

Awesome. As much as I love souls games, I also love traditional action games like Ninja Gaiden and unfortunately there are not many of them these days, hopefully this game will be great.

It's also good that they're adding difficulty modes, so more people can enjoy the game. I think that single player games should always have difficulty modes, not everyone has the skill and/or patience to deal with challenging games.

Not every game has to be for everyone either.

 

[EDMIX]

From Software needs to acknowledge their privilege and actively work toward equality.

lol yesssssss! ( i"m laughing too loud for this one lol)

I feel this is more funny cause you are saying it so it adds more lolz

I keep forgetting this game exist lol We thought this thing was vaporware didn't exist etc I hear they are targeting this year still, but this year is packed.

I disagree. Good hack and slash are also difficult but the genre has gone casual since DMC 3, the last really great one, from a challenge perspective (you can beat Bayonetta and the last two DMC games with three fingers).

I want difficult enemies that force me to learn their patterns and how to optimize my skills. The last 5 bosses in Stellar Blade is an example of what I wished for this one.

well...it depends. I like that in some games, but other times I'm ok with just casually running thru the game, I'd say DMC3 falls under that as I didn't find that game hard compared to others. So I like DMC, Onimusha, but I also like Ninja Gaiden, Shinobi, Bloodborne, Sekiro etc.

So I'm ok with hard games to learn patterns, I'm ok with just sitting back and enjoying the game as games are still made to be fun.

Just depends on what kind of fun one is looking to have tbh. If they don't want to go the Souls route, I'm fine with this, we have enough of those games and they are right to set themselves apart.

(semi OT, I hope this makes Capcom bring back Onimusha)

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Meh. Don't buy it. When From dropped Demons Souls there was no "privilege". Nonsense.

 

[tibia]

Lame developers jealous of what From accomplished. Just say they're not as talented as From in creating a rewarding experience and be done with it.

We remember what DeS 2009 was and the risk From took. Now everyone wants to mention From and Souls like it's an entitlement. SAD

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Lame developers jealous of what From accomplished. Just say they're not as talented as From in creating a rewarding experience and be done with it.

We remember what DeS 2009 was and the risk From took. Now everyone wants to mention From and Souls like it's an entitlement. SAD

Ring ring, bingo card slam full, we have a winner.

 

[digital_ghost]

If only someone did candid camera of rage meltdowns from fromsoft's games.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Will keep expectations in check for this.

 

[fart town usa]

“As a new studio, I don’t think we have the privilege of FromSoftware to make you frustrated while you’re playing. We’d rather keep it accessible to everyone so that everyone can enjoy it.”

Wow. What a brilliant thing to say, I'm honestly impressed. I think it speaks volumes for the studio. Incredibly thoughtful of them to recognize their limitations/lack of experience whereas some studios can't help themselves and implement the Souls difficulty in the wrong way and the game is hamstrung as a result. Lords of the Fallen comes to mind. I still grew to appreciate that game but the developers really should have shown some restraint, the game would be all the better for it.

 

[EDMIX]

“As a new studio, I don’t think we have the privilege of FromSoftware to make you frustrated while you’re playing. We’d rather keep it accessible to everyone so that everyone can enjoy it.”

Wow. What a brilliant thing to say, I'm honestly impressed. I think it speaks volumes for the studio. Incredibly thoughtful of them to recognize their limitations/lack of experience whereas some studios can't help themselves and implement the Souls difficulty in the wrong way and the game is hamstrung as a result. Lords of the Fallen comes to mind. I still grew to appreciate that game but the developers really should have shown some restraint, the game would be all the better for it.

Agreed and thank you as I feel many don't even understand what team is saying.

They are merely expressing that they are not there yet in regards to such design to create such difficulty.

 

[fart town usa]

Meh. Don't buy it. When From dropped Demons Souls there was no "privilege". Nonsense.

Lame developers jealous of what From accomplished. Just say they're not as talented as From in creating a rewarding experience and be done with it.

We remember what DeS 2009 was and the risk From took. Now everyone wants to mention From and Souls like it's an entitlement. SAD

I feel like you guys took it the wrong way. I read it as them recognizing their inexperience and deciding to focus on a gameplay experience they felt they could handle and make memorable for players.

FromSoft had decades of experience before they struck a golden balance with Demon's Souls. Yea they definitely took a chance but they had so many other development lessons under their belt. Not so much Miyazaki himself but the other staff members at From who were able to create his vision.

 

[rm082e]

I'm really interested in this game. I hope it turns out solid.

 

[Danjin44]

I get behind wanting make different type of game instead try to be "Souls-like" like any other devs these days.

But this is not "privilege" FROM worked their ass off to get this type of trust and they fucking earned it

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Good! I like how games like this, black myth, rise of the ronin and Stellar blade all take souls aspects and combat but are not as punishing or has difficulty modes. They’re finding a great middle ground imo between games like HFW/ghost of Tsushima and From games.

 

[fart town usa]

I get behind wanting make different type of game instead try to be "Souls-like" like any other devs these days.

But this is not "privilege" FROM worked their ass off to get this type of trust and they fucking earned it

But the studio saying they (themselves) don't have the privilege implies that they recognize FromSoft is leagues above them. "Frustrating" as it is used in the interview could mean anything, I didn't take it as a negative statement towards the Souls franchise. PBZ devs are Chinese, I imagine that few, if any, have a strong handle on the English language.

I think it's an incredibly respectful statement when it comes to recognizing how good FromSoft is. Phantom Blade Zero devs recognize they aren't at that level yet.

 

[Aion002]

Not every game has to be for everyone either.

Sure. But if adding an easy mode makes the game sell more, why not do it?

When Demon's Souls was released on the ps3, the consensus was, if you suck at it, just start the game with the Royal and if you are still struggling, just summon someone.

On Dark Souls it was the same thing, starting the game with the Pyromancer also made everything easy.

I have two friends that loves Souls games, we all started together on Demon's Souls and they finished all Souls games, including Bloodborne and Elden Ring... However, unlike me, they don't dare to play Sekiro, simply because there is no coop for me to help them.

I think that most people enjoy playing Souls games even if they're being carried through the game.

 

[laynelane]

But the studio saying they (themselves) don't have the privilege implies that they recognize FromSoft is leagues above them. "Frustrating" as it is used in the interview could mean anything, I didn't take it as a negative statement towards the Souls franchise. PBZ devs are Chinese, I imagine that few, if any, have a strong handle on the English language.

I think it's an incredibly respectful statement when it comes to recognizing how good FromSoft is. Phantom Blade Zero devs recognize they aren't at that level yet.

You may be right, but the use of the word "privilege" muddies the message. It's not necessarily incorrect in this instance, as privilege can be earned, but perhaps it would have been best to simply leave From out of the conversation. As well, the statement contrasts making players frustrated (From games) with this studio's efforts to make a game everyone can enjoy. It doesn't really come across as respectful to me.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Those games are our favorites, but nowadays, younger players might find these games too hardcore, so we needed to add extra accessibility.

Aka modern gamers are too stupid. Lmao at ppl saying "good".

 

[GymWolf]

Hopefully hard mode is gonna be actually hard.

 

[Danjin44]

Sure. But if adding an easy mode makes the game sell more, why not do it?

It up to devs themselves if they want to do it or not and FROM chose not to and their games selling pretty damn well without being force to add something they clearly don’t want.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Spot on.

 

[KungFucius]

FromSoft privilege? You think they had that back in '09 when they struggled to even get Demon's Souls published in the West? C'mon now. It's fine if your game includes a difficulty option, but defending your choice like that just sounds ignorant.

Why do you think citing something from 15 years ago is relevant to today? They earned their privilege but they still have it. Thousands of people who didn't really like Elden Ring will probably buy Elden Ring 2 because of their privilege.

Personally I don't like games that require me to work to get good at. That was fine in the NES days when you got a couple of games per year and even later when you could rent them for a week. Those games were a few hours long total. 100 hours of punishing difficulty and having to try over and over again until you perfect the timing is insane. Who has that much time to waste on anything?

 

[InterMusketeer]

Why do you think citing something from 15 years ago is relevant to today? They earned their privilege but they still have it.

They didn't earn shit. They had a vision for Demon's Souls, executed it and put it onto the market. People ended up liking it, that's why their souls like games have been selling since.

FromSoft wasn't a high profile studio with access to endless money and a loyal fanbase. They were quite obscure and many of their games were duds. Under those circumstances they were able to spawn a new and popular genre of games. What is Phantom Blade Zero's excuse?

 

[Bernardougf]

The Souls games killed hackNslashs for me personally... I just dont see a point in playing this kind of action driven games anymore, especially with too much accessibility... but I hope its good anyway maybe someday I'll try it.

 

[Bernardougf]

It up to devs themselves if they want to do it or not and FROM chose not to and their games selling pretty damn well without being force to add something they clearly don’t want.

From made Elden Ring pretty accessible, it didn't have a easy mode but it had many options to make the game easy, using all of the help avaible it was by far the easiest souls game to date (excluding the expansion) , thats why the mainstream media and players that never were able to play souls games finally were able and they love it and the game selled a lot more than anyother souls game.

So yes.. From lowkey put it easy modes in elden ring, personaly I think all of it + open world killed my enjoyment of the game and I hated with a passion. But the success of doing this is undeniable.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

From made Elden Ring pretty accessible, it didn't have a easy mode but it had many options to make the game easy, using all of the help avaible it was by far the easiest souls game to date (excluding the expansion) , thats why the mainstream media and players that never were able to play souls games finally were able and they love it and the game selled a lot more than anyother souls game.

So yes.. From lowkey put it easy modes in elden ring, personaly I think all of it + open world killed my enjoyment of the game and I hated with a passion. But the success of doing this is undeniable.

I am somewhat with you on this. I like Elden Ring okay enough, but I prefer their older and non open world work. But it is correct to say that these changes helped assist with more sales (I don't think it's the only factor but it is a factor).

 

[fallingdove]

They didn't earn shit. They had a vision for Demon's Souls, executed it and put it onto the market. People ended up liking it, that's why their souls like games have been selling since.

FromSoft wasn't a high profile studio with access to endless money and a loyal fanbase. They were quite obscure and many of their games were duds. Under those circumstances they were able to spawn a new and popular genre of games. What is Phantom Blade Zero's excuse?

What are you talking about? FromSoft totally had to earn their success and their unique brand of gameplay. Demon’s Souls was niche as fuck. It had a small but dedicated fanbase that grew with each entry in the genre.

Phantom Blade Zero doing exactly what FromSoft has done is the anti-FromSoft. That’s why the market is flooded with so many forgettable Soulsborne games. It seems that this studio is trying to take a different approach (which is commendable). I don’t want more knockoffs simply because hard is supposed to be cool.

 

[Arsic]

He mentioned Ninja Gaiden being the inspiration and one of his favorites.

And now my nipples are fully erect. Game just climbed to high on my list of wants.

Someone, anyone, give me a game akin to that please Jesus Christ.

 

[Tg89]

Still so many devs that just miss the point on not having difficulty options.

Most games with multiple difficulties are lazily implemented and worse as a result. It hinders your ability to craft a specific experience and maintain a vision with the gameplay and ultimately these games end up compromised because the "difficulty" changes really amount to "x % more or less health and damage".

Most of the greatest games of all time don't have difficulty options.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Well, From earned that and frankly has always made games that were like that too.

Also, From games are not always frustrating, you have lots of options on how to proceed. Frustrating is ninja gaiden.

 

[Gojiira]

From never had that ‘Privilege’, They took huge risks with just about all their games, even Elden Ring was a huge gamble bringing Open World into the mix. It is a little informed to chalk up their design decisions to ‘privilege’, they earned their success and reputation with stellar games.
Im glad to see that their taking a risk in their own way though, Ive always wanted a Devil May Cry that was Soulslike rather than levels so thats promising. I just hope the combat isnt just flash with zero substance…

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Aka modern gamers are too stupid. Lmao at ppl saying "good".

No.

More like, "the gaming audience for these games has aged and are now in their 30s/40s, so no longer have the reflexes of a cat needed to enjoy high difficulty in these types of games".

I'm too fucking old for split second timing needed to counters in Souls game. Fuck that shit. I just want to sit back and enjoy something a bit more manageable for my age-reduced abilities.

 

[The Cockatrice]

More like

No.

 

[Trilobit]

I wish Jedi Fallen Order developers would have made the same decision. The battles were not insanely hard, but I just don't think the style fits the franchise. I prefer Jedi Academy's combat greatly.

 

[PSlayer]

He is not wrong. From software had 15 years to build a fanbase that tolerates the challenge it provides. A new IP,specially with the insane budgets we have right now, need every person it can have.

I also don't mind having easier souls-like games as an entry point to the genre.

 

[Arsic]

He is not wrong. From software had 15 years to build a fanbase that tolerates the challenge it provides. A new IP,specially with the insane budgets we have right now, need every person it can have.

I also don't mind having easier soul-like games as an entry point to the genre.

Imagine thinking the challenge is what makes these games special.

There are dozens of soulslikes that try being easier , just as hard, or harder. And the majority are shit. Why? Because they miss everything else.

Atmosphere
Build variety
Exploring being rewarded
Lots of rich lore
Tight combat
Fun
And yes, rewarding boss fights

PB0 could be hard as shit or piss easy, but if it doesn’t hit the other points? Who cares?

Miyazakis team have a clear vision together of what their game will be.

PB0 just needs the same focus. What does it want to be? Be that. If they are trying to make a game that check boxes from some abstract of thinking “this is what the mass appeal audience will like” then it’ll just end up another souls like dud.

Lies of P is how you do it right.