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PoliGAF Interim Thread of cunning stunts and desperate punts

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J

Jak140

Member
Chiggs said:
I'm failing to see what the big deal about the video is. Are we new to politics?
Click to expand...
Because it's blantant fear mongering with the exploitation of human suffering for political gain thrown into the mix? Just because the RNC has become so shameless in its self-contradictions and manipulations are we supposed to numb ourselves to it? I won't stop being outraged until they treat the american public with respect, dignity, and intellectual honesty instead of as something to be twisted to their will.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
NewLib said:
I understand that. I guess my point is Im growing tired of people voting by parties.

Maybe I have this dream of political parties where they are like, "This is what we stand for..." and then the voters decide which one they like and vote for it. Then the parties FOLLOW THROUGH.

I would promote shorter terms because it would keep politicians honest to people's wants, but I Think it would impact getting things done.

So I don't know an answer. Maybe a national automatic impeachment clause. Where if your approval ratings goes under a certain number, you are gone.
Click to expand...

We need more political parties. (Which won't happen because REPs and DEMs won't allow it). You need to have people taking positions on principles rather than pure demographics and a loose adherence to some vague ideology that people in both parties don't even agree with. That way the parties aren't reflexively taking the polar opposite positions on an issue. Instead we have to deal with the system as it is.
 
Chiggs

Chiggs

Gold Member
Watching the re-runs on CNN, I'll have to say that Lindsey Graham's speech is by far the worst thing I've seen from the convention.
 
M

mozfan12

Banned
Stoney Mason said:
We need more political parties. (Which won't happen because REPs and DEMs won't allow it). You need to have people taking positions on principles rather than pure demographics and a loose adherence to some vague ideology that people in both parties don't even agree with. That way the parties aren't reflexively taking the polar opposite positions on an issue. Instead we have to deal with the system as it is.
Click to expand...


actually it is allowed to have more than two parties, but we live a plurality system, which almost the for the majority of the time only allow for two successful parties. A proportional system allows for citizen to vote for people whom they like as in a plurality system they tend to vote for one of the lesser evils
 
N

NewLib

Banned
mozfan12 said:
actually it is allowed to have more than two parties, but we live a plurality system, which almost the for the majority of the time only allow for two successful parties. A proportional system allows for citizen to vote for people whom they like as in a plurality system they tend to vote for one of the lesser evils
Click to expand...

I dont like a proportinal system for the reason that it doesn' t matter what the majority thinks on individual issues. Just which one issue makes people passionate enough to drive out voters. Still a minority party.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Can I get an update please? Along with some choice videos? :)
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
mozfan12 said:
actually it is allowed to have more than two parties, but we live a plurality system, which almost the for the majority of the time only allow for two successful parties. A proportional system allows for citizen to vote for people whom they like as in a plurality system they tend to vote for one of the lesser evils
Click to expand...


That's what I mean. The system is purposefully set up to reduce the influence of third parties or anything that could challenge the two party system. Third parties can only function truly at this stage as a feeder system of ideas to the two parties and even that barely works.
 
Xenon

Xenon

Member
ronito said:
So....let me get this straight.

It IS condescending and cynical. But it's ok because people are questioning the VP nominees' qualifications. Right?
Click to expand...


No it was in the context of it being experience for him being president. But I give up. No matter what the Democratic Party is just too good at playing the victim. So go on exaggerating what was said make to vilify the opposition. Palin hates community leaders, she compares them to Nazis, and wants to destroy them.
 
R

RiskyChris

Banned
Who all got fuck all done this week because of the political circus? I'm going to be doing overtime this weekend on the books to make up for wasted hours...
 
R

ronito

Member
Xenon said:
No it was in the context of it being experience for him being president. But I give up. No matter what the Democratic Party is just too good at playing the victim. So go on exaggerating what was said make to vilify the opposition. Palin hates community leaders, she compares them to Nazis, and wants to destroy them.
Click to expand...
So you were against the snark before you were for it?
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
RiskyChris said:
Who all got fuck all done this week because of the political circus? I'm going to be doing overtime this weekend on the books to make up for wasted hours...
Click to expand...

It's destroyed my sleep schedule. Here it is right now, past 2 AM, and I'm wide awake and have to be up in a few hours for work. Damn conventions.
 
Xenon

Xenon

Member
ronito said:
So you were against the snark before you were for it?
Click to expand...


I thought it was a shot at Obama's experience, nothing more. I laughed. I wasn't for or against it. I was just arguing against how people are trying to turn it into more than it was. But in the political game people grab onto whatever they can.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
Xenon said:
No it was in the context of it being experience for him being president. But I give up. No matter what the Democratic Party is just too good at playing the victim. So go on exaggerating what was said make to vilify the opposition. Palin hates community leaders, she compares them to Nazis, and wants to destroy them.
Click to expand...


Obama being a community organizer is as relevant as being a businessman which is smething Republicans always like to throw out there. It helped him understand people, their problems, and trying to solve those problems through community or government action. Nobody has every stated it is his sole qualification for Obama to be president. It is something that strengthened him and shaped him. And to make fun of it is pretty low when community activity is something republicans always claim to be for.
 
M

Macam

Banned
BoboBrazil said:
Atleast he will win your state. I'm in Texas and Obama has no chance at all of winning here...
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Probably not, but that shouldn't stop you from voting, volunteering, or trying to help get Rick Noriega elected to the U.S. Senate. I've already donated once, in addition to Obama's, and I'm volunteering in part for his campaign. That race is actually fairly close (it was as close as 3 points a few months back), though Noriega lacks the funds of John Cornyn, who's one of the most worthless Republican senators in office today. For a little background, Texas Monthly had a pretty good article on Noriega back in June.
 
Chiggs

Chiggs

Gold Member
Stoney Mason said:
Obama being a community organizer is as relevant as being a businessman which is smething Republicans always like to throw out there. It helped him understand people, their problems, and trying to solve those problems through community or government action. Nobody has every stated it is his sole qualification for Obama to be president. It is something that strengthened him and shaped him. And to make fun of it is pretty low when community activity is something republicans always claim to be for.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I don't like that tactic. Shitting on community organizers? Really, RNC? Reeeeaaallly?
 
S

slidewinder

Banned
Acid08 said:
Did that bitch Palin make fun of San Francisco? If so, fuck her, SF is greater than the entire state of Alaska.
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In terms of population, maybe. But when it comes to proven oil reserves, SF is sucking wind in comparison.
 
D

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Stoney Mason said:
We need more political parties. (Which won't happen because REPs and DEMs won't allow it).
Click to expand...

I would like to see the "two party system" break up a bit, and I also agree that the two major parties would not want their own party to lose folks to smaller parties, but I can't see how you can say the existing parties "won't allow" the formation of new political parties. That's just silly. They won't HELP new parties and you aren't going to see the R and D folks entering into public debates with them on a regular basis, but NOTHING stops you from starting your own political party. Nothing on the part of the existing parties, that is.

The only thing stopping you from creating a new political party is yourself.
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
Yikes, a few people here are getting pessimistic already...I shudder to think what this thread will be like when the RNC bump starts to show tomorrow!

Just remember folks...relax...breath...it's a convention bump, gonna need another week at least to figure out where we really stand, but right now it looks great for Obama even if McCain leads tomorrow.
 
D

devilhawk

Member
BoboBrazil said:
Video of Obama released today responding to Palin... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHv-slC8Vr8
Click to expand...
I think that this is were Palin's only real slip up was at. I don't disagree that mayors are a more important job and have greater responsibilities. Organizers are very important but since it is in more of a volunteering aspect the responsibilities are different levels. Thinking about it this way leaves just the delivery of the speech in to question being it was in a sarcastic and demeaning way.
 
Xenon

Xenon

Member
Stoney Mason said:
Obama being a community organizer is as relevant as being a businessman which is smething Republicans always like to throw out there. It helped him understand people, their problems, and trying to solve those problems through community or government action. Nobody has every stated it is his sole qualification for Obama to be president. It is something that strengthened him and shaped him. And to make fun of it is pretty low when community activity is something republicans always claim to be for.
Click to expand...


So is being a mayor of a small town. But that didn't stop people from saying it was not valid experience. She was responding to all those remarks by pointing out their hypocrisy. You can not ignore that fact. If she wasn't hammered by the media about that the statement would not have happened.


There was not an ounce of hate for community leaders in her remark as some have tried to imply.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
DavidDayton said:
I would like to see the "two party system" break up a bit, and I also agree that the two major parties would not want their own party to lose folks to smaller parties, but I can't see how you can say the existing parties "won't allow" the formation of new political parties. That's just silly. They won't HELP new parties and you aren't going to see the R and D folks entering into public debates with them on a regular basis, but NOTHING stops you from starting your own political party. Nothing on the part of the existing parties, that is.

The only thing stopping you from creating a new political party is yourself.
Click to expand...

I'm saying the funding laws, ballot laws, and infrastructure setup by the dominant political parties makes it very difficult for outside parties without massive amounts of money to do anything. The only recent third party that was able to anything was due to the money and ego of a billionaire.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
devilhawk said:
I think that this is were Palin's only real slip up was at. I don't disagree that mayors are a more important job and have greater responsibilities. Organizers are very important but since it is in more of a volunteering aspect the responsibilities are different levels. Thinking about it this way leaves just the delivery of the speech in to question being it was in a sarcastic and demeaning way.
Click to expand...

Obama graduated from HARVARD

HARVARD

People don't think you have to be responsible to get through their law school?

Like come on, this shouldn't be an issue

Obama is clearly not lazy
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Xenon said:
So is being a mayor of a small town. But that didn't stop people from saying it was not valid experience. She was responding to all those remarks by pointing out their hypocrisy. You can not ignore that fact. If she wasn't hammered by the media about that the statement would not have happened.


There was not an ounce of hate for community leaders in her remark as some have tried to imply.
Click to expand...

She clearly implied that community organizing takes no "actual" responsibilities, and she trivialized the shit out of something that's very selfless and incredibly necessary. It's indefensible.
 
S

Stoney Mason

Banned
Xenon said:
So is being a mayor of a small town. But that didn't stop people from saying it was not valid experience. She was responding to all those remarks by pointing out their hypocrisy. You can not ignore that fact. If she wasn't hammered by the media about that the statement would not have happened.


There was not an ounce of hate for community leaders in her remark as some have tried to imply.
Click to expand...

Her experience as mayor is relative to the conversation since the exact same charge was levied at Obama by republicans and some of his potential VP picks. It's relevant because the republicans made it relevant because they are the ones running on experience and threw the initial experience attacks.

And if that crack about community leaders being like mayors except with responsibilities and Rudy chortling at the very concept of a community organizer aren't shots then I don't know what is then.
 
R

ronito

Member
Xenon said:
I thought it was a shot at Obama's experience, nothing more. I laughed. I wasn't for or against it. I was just arguing against how people are trying to turn it into more than it was. But in the political game people grab onto whatever they can.
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It is telling. It shows the condescension of the republican party that so many have been arguing against for so long. Let me switch just two words:

""I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a being a woman, except that you have actual responsibilities,"

This certainly wouldn't be allowed, why is it ok with volunteers? You might think it's just a sentence, but it's just more proof of the republicans race to the basest of human emotions. It's a piss poor tactic that will endear her to republicans and put off just about everyone else. Palin would've been smart to tell the person that wrote that speech for her that line was going a little too far. Evidently she was too busy spending time pronouncing newclear.

You complain about how poor Palin has been treated. If she said "I guess I'm like Obama but with responsibilities." You wouldn't be having this conversation. Attacking Obama is one thing showing contempt for volunteers and people who care? completely another
 
T

Trurl

Banned
DavidDayton said:
I would like to see the "two party system" break up a bit, and I also agree that the two major parties would not want their own party to lose folks to smaller parties, but I can't see how you can say the existing parties "won't allow" the formation of new political parties. That's just silly. They won't HELP new parties and you aren't going to see the R and D folks entering into public debates with them on a regular basis, but NOTHING stops you from starting your own political party. Nothing on the part of the existing parties, that is.

The only thing stopping you from creating a new political party is yourself.
Click to expand...
If I'm not mistaken, presidential debates were taken out of the hands of The League for Women Voters so that it would be easier to exclude third parties from debates.

Also, our voting system makes voting 3rd party very undesirable. It would be very difficult to change that and would require the work of the parties that be.

At least the primaries tend to have a lot of choices.
 
L

Lesath

Member
BigJonsson said:
Obama graduated from HARVARD

HARVARD

People don't think you have to be responsible to get through their law school?

Like come on, this shouldn't be an issue

Obama is clearly not lazy
Click to expand...

I guess Harvard's sort of like the colleges she went to, except vastly more prestigious.
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
BigJonsson said:
Obama graduated from HARVARD

HARVARD

People don't think you have to be responsible to get through their law school?

Like come on, this shouldn't be an issue

Obama is clearly not lazy
Click to expand...
Ivy League University Education = BAD...

...unless you're a Republican.
 
A

Aaron

Member
Xenon said:
So is being a mayor of a small town. But that didn't stop people from saying it was not valid experience. She was responding to all those remarks by pointing out their hypocrisy. You can not ignore that fact. If she wasn't hammered by the media about that the statement would not have happened.
Click to expand...
A small town that's now $20 million in debt. This is the sort of 'experience' you want for a VP?
 
P

polyh3dron

Banned
Xenon said:
There was not an ounce of hate for community leaders in her remark as some have tried to imply.
Click to expand...
This again?

Now you're just trolling.

The last time you made this claim it didn't work out too well for you, it was discussed to death and now you apparently have amnesia or something.
 
G

Gaborn

Member
Acid08 said:
Did that bitch Palin make fun of San Francisco? If so, fuck her, SF is greater than the entire state of Alaska.
Click to expand...

I was unaware that term was acceptable use in these threads again.
 
B

BigJonsson

Member
Lesath said:
I guess Harvard's sort of like the colleges she went to, except vastly more prestigious.
Click to expand...


Of course she has responsibilities, we all do

She should not be diminishing what responsibilities Obama has had in his life
 
D

devilhawk

Member
BigJonsson said:
Obama graduated from HARVARD

HARVARD

People don't think you have to be responsible to get through their law school?

Like come on, this shouldn't be an issue

Obama is clearly not lazy
Click to expand...
You missed the point entirely then. It wasn't a total compare and contrast lifetime experience. When she was chosen Obama and the Democrats said she didn't have the experience. Palin countered with executive experience. Obama countered with community organization is better than small town mayor. This is where the remark comes from. It has everything to do with trying to paint that Palin has a TYPE of experience that Obama doesn't. That was the attempt. It has absolutely nothing to do with Harvard.

I'm not saying it worked or that it was done in the right way. But that was the attempt. There is some truth to it. The belittling part has been discussed and is obvious.
 
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