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[MrCheez]

Appreciation Thread!

I think my friends and I have officially spent more multiplayer hours with Smash Brothers than Goldeneye. (Actually, we probably accomplished this feat a year ago).

For as long as I can remember, whenever I have a gathering of a few friends, Smash Bros. always sees at least a little playtime (most of the time it takes up the majority of our time together, unless we just got a new game like Four Swords!) We tend to have different "phases" where we prefer different modes or always use certain characters.

I really really want a sequel though. I was praying that one was going to be announced at this last E3! You'd think they would have busted one out by now, when considering how much SSBM sold. =(

Anyway, anyone else still playing this game all the time with friends?

 

[cvxfreak]

It's hard for me to come by this game whenever friends are over but there are times when there are. Super Smash Bros. Melee is nothing short of a masterpiece. Very replayable, deeper than most fighters out there, and downright fun.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

It's not when the only "serious" players you know refuse to play any other mode then 5 stock 1v1 in Hyrule with no items.

Then it's just hearing Link make sounds.

These people killed the game's appeal for me.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

With my friends Goldeneye is still king although SSB:M come in second for sure.

 

[MrCheez]

It's not when the only "serious" players you know refuse to play any other mode then 5 stock 1v1 in Hyrule with no items.

Then it's just hearing Link make sounds.

These people killed the game's appeal for me.

70% of our matches are probably in Hyrule. =) For a long stretch of time we played without items, but we recently put them back in again.

Oh, and it's 3 stock 99% of the time.

 

[Trevelyon]

The one name they all fear.

SSB:M is timeless, it'll forever be a game you can just pick up & play with friends anytime.

 

[Dujour]

It's hard for me to come by this game whenever friends are over but there are times when there are. Super Smash Bros. Melee is nothing short of a masterpiece. Very replayable, deeper than most fighters out there, and downright fun.

HOW?! Damn, I'm the only one that doesn't see this aspect of the game. It has a lot of rewards and stuff, but every character's 4 move set makes it seem so bland. It's almost a button masher. Please, I don't want to be missing out, so what am I overlooking?

 

[MrCheez]

I honestly don't know any Ness players. =(

Fox/Falco, and Link tend to be played the most with many people I know, as well as Pikachu oddly enough.

I've always been a Marth and Ice Climbers man, myself. =) I like to switch it up with Bowser (who I tend to lose with, but i have fun with him), Zelda, Ganon, and Kirby every once and awhile.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

If you got two or three guys who really dig the game, I can see Hyrule and the stocks.

But if you have four players, and some of them aren't as into it, I really feel that you're wasting a lot of potential enjoyment for everyone by sticking to the same map constantly or removing the randomness that items bring.

And with stocks, as soon as a four player match gets down to the last two guys, I've lost interest, even if I'm one of the surviving two. If you play by percents, not only is everyone in the game the entire time, but the player who did the most work is rewarded with the win. With stocks, players can run away and let the others whittle each other down; then they can come back for the weakened survivor.

 

[MrCheez]

HOW?! Damn, I'm the only one that doesn't see this aspect of the game. It has a lot of rewards and stuff, but every character's 4 move set makes it seem so bland. It's almost a button masher. Please, I don't want to be missing out, so what am I overlooking?

Each character has a good amount of moves... do you mean that they all tend to be one or two button presses? For me, Smash Brothers is so great because anyone can learn the moveset really quickly, and every character has the same moveset so once you learn one you know them all. So after this point the genius beings: your skill is not based on memorizing long combinations of buttons, but knowing what to use and when. Not being able to pull off a move should never be a factor. It's all about thinking on your feet.

Blocking, dodging (aerial and grounded), rolling, catching items, double jump, and a few other aspects greatly add to the strategy as well.

 

[MrCheez]

And with stocks, as soon as a four player match gets down to the last two guys, I've lost interest, even if I'm one of the surviving two. If you play by percents, not only is everyone in the game the entire time, but the player who did the most work is rewarded with the win. With stocks, players can run away and let the others whittle each other down; then they can come back for the weakened survivor.

Very good point, and we have that problem with casual players. But still... I've always just liked the "last man standing" aspect of stocks. I do love that there are a few different ways to play the game though. Something for everybody. =)

 

[Spiritreaver]

I love SSBM, but I never bother to play in a serious manner like some people do. I've been in at tournament, but eh, I'm not that into it. I prefer to play it for fun rather than to see who's the best.

Oh and SSBM was the first fighting game I was ever really good at. I suck at combo games and memorizing strings of buttons.

 

[cvxfreak]

HOW?! Damn, I'm the only one that doesn't see this aspect of the game. It has a lot of rewards and stuff, but every character's 4 move set makes it seem so bland. It's almost a button masher. Please, I don't want to be missing out, so what am I overlooking?

You're missing out on the stuff below the surface. Sure, you have moves you can pull from out of the blue. But the execution must be perfect. And you must be a quick player. There are tons of different characters and different stages. They all function differently. Situations are different depending on the amount of players playing. You never know when a capsule will yield a bomb, or a bat. In order to win, you must be ready for anything and everything. You can't just mash buttons. You have to coordinate your moves according to the environment you're in and who you're up against. The environment can favor you or hate you. Moves can change if executed at the wrong time, and the whole match can be lost if you don't connect a devastating blow in time. This paragraph might describe a 'challenge aspect' but it's beyond that. It's depth.

 

[Kandinsky]

The one name they all fear.

Agree!

I just want an online version, the same exact game with online play .

 

[The Interrobanger]

When I play with my brothers/friends, we play 10-stock lives with bats, hammers, stars and health pickups off.
I would have to agree that this game is unbelieveably good in multiplayer, the only thing that comes close is Goldeneye (or Counter-Strike if you include online games). It's insane how many hours I've put into this game...

 

[Oichi]

Screw Ness! Falco is the one that needs to be feared!

ArcadeStickMonk: I agree, those who play the game competitively all the time are kind of lame. I love playing SSBM with random rules and items, and playing 'tourney-style' is something I don't like to do a lot of the time.

Most of the games I play use a 5 stock limit, which I think is the best rule to use. It allows for quicker matches, so that's always good

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

HOW?! Damn, I'm the only one that doesn't see this aspect of the game. It has a lot of rewards and stuff, but every character's 4 move set makes it seem so bland. It's almost a button masher. Please, I don't want to be missing out, so what am I overlooking?

EXACTLY

sera I just bought the game like 2 weeks ago and aside from the cool old school music, and the little trophies, I dont get the "depth of the game"

I think its kinda like powerstone depth IE you only see it when u have a dedicated group of SSBM players.... something, I will never have.... Now if were talking wrestling games, then Im in luck in terms of friends to play with

 

[slayn]

4 moves? I count...

4 special moves (is that what ur talking about? if so... fighting games are about normals and always have been...) standing punch, holding attacks (4) plus variations. ie, with gannon's forward kick, you tilt the control stick to change the angle of his kick. 4 smash attack. 4 ariel attacks.

thats 13 normal attacks and 4 specials, which is easily comparable to other 2d fighters. Especially since the normals of SSBM are so much more varied than other 2d fighters.

and the fact that the special moves are easy to pull off, destroys the whole beginner stigma of not being able to make your character do what you want. Thats why its so beginner friendly but it doesn't lose any depth from it because to an expert the special moves should be as easy to pull off as pressing a single button anyway.

the aspects come into it then, move priority, mind games, traps, reading your opponent and so on.

 

[worldrunover]

I agree with this topic absolutely. Hell, I've had the game almost three years and I'm just realizing how much ass Zelda and Peach can kick. Maybe someday I'll come to appreciate NEss, but I doubt it...

 

[human5892]

I don't think SSBM has the mainstream appeal of a game like Goldeneye, in that it's a bit too frantic and overwhelming for some players I've seen, but in its own right, yes, it is a fantastically replayable game.

My friends and I usually do 5 stock, switching primarily back and forth between Hyrule castle and Starfox stages.

 

[Mr. Lemming]

Stock is the bane of all that is good and holy in the universe.

Now Time, there's a game that rewards being aggressive and keeps players from sitting out for 10+ minutes at a time.

And don't get me started on turning items off. I understand the hammer, pokeballs,, and the healing items but some people take the "balancing" thing a little too far.

 

[ManDudeChild]

The real fun of SSBM is fighting three level 9 level 9 handicap CPU players in team battle.

 

[olimario]

The real fun is playing with a couple really good friends, all items on, on lylat system corneria.
The real fun is blocking moves, doing your own, and knowing what move to use next.
The fun is in making your own killer combos, juggling items against your opponents head.

SSBM is so deep and so fun.

 

[Murphmanstudios]

We do 15 stock, no items, Hyrule...

It is crazy, when you're in the underground part, it's very hard to get knocked off, so sometimes we just try and see who can get their damage the highest (we've gotten over 500)...

Very fun game.

 

[Ristamar]

SSBM sees a ridiculous amount of playtime in my apartment, providing a staggering amount of game types and options, exhaustive stat tracking, and lots of unlockables. The controls are simple to learn, difficult to master (check out some of the videos in the other SSBM thread). The gameplay is deceptively deep, and the chaotic elements give newbies a chance to get their fair share of smacks in and have a good time.

I've found that in 1v1, the key to dominating the opposition is controlling the stage, keeping your opponent off balance while gobbling up all available items (if you play with items on, of course)...

 

[Joe]

im actually bored of the game as are all my friends. we probably played this game on and off for about a month and we havent touched it in a while. it is a really fun game though, just got boring.

 

[Brandon F]

Still the best game on the system.

 

[Demigod Mac]

I vote for Tekken Tag Tournament 4 player. Unrivaled multiplayer fun.

 

[akascream]

I don't like stock cause you can't fall off a cliff to deny a kill. HAHAHAHAHA

/me runs away.

 

[Dujour]

Yeah! Tekken Tag, Pacman Versus, Bomberman Tournament, Warioware, Tennis 2K2, Halo, and now, Top Spin and Four Swords Adventure. These are the games I play when I have people coming over or bring to someone else's house. The only games worth bringing your controllers. I'll give SSBM another shot soon. Being a completist freak isn't so bad after all. panch. PANCH.

 

[Ristamar]

I don't like stock cause you can't fall off a cliff to deny a kill. HAHAHAHAHA

/me runs away.

Haha. For that very reason, if we're not playing stock, we set suicides to -2.

 

[Ceros]

Time limit of 20 minutes, no items, final destination as the level=hardcore.
I'm so good at this game I should've been in a tournament but I was too lazy to attend. I'm the best with Link,Samus, and Ganondorf/C. Falcon(speed difference). I also use Bowser and Jiggypuff to embarass people.(Both of their Down+B moves kick ass)

 

[akascream]

I don't like changing the rules to suit certain styles. But I'll make you a deal. If we can ban Fox as a playable character, I'll agree to -2 suicide.

 

[Ristamar]

I don't like changing the rules to suit certain styles. But I'll make you a deal. If we can ban Fox as a playable character, I'll agree to -2 suicide.

Eh, I usually stick to stock battles anyway, but that'd work for me. I rarely use Fox, nor do my friends...

 

[slayn]

my house rules:

stock 5
no items
random level but with some levels turned off that we find particularly worthless (ice climber level etc)
teams 2v2
everyone does random character selection, and then you and your partner have the choice of switching which characters you got.

I've found this to be by far the most fun way to play.

 

[Trevelyon]

My Rules:

Time: 2 minutes
All Items... except (Shit list: Cloaking device, fan, Saturn, red shells, lip's stick, parasol, poison mushroom) All Medium
Handicap: Off
Damage Ratio: 1.0
Stage Selection: On (Shit List: Flatzone, Big Blue, Poke Floats, Rainbow Cruise, Icicle Mountain)
Score Display: Off
CPU: lvl 9

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

my house rules

My Rules:

So much for appreciation of depth.

Everybody has their own rules, right down to the core scoring system (stock\time). People want to ban different characters, stages, and items.

How are you supposed to enjoy the game as much when you aren't on your home turf? Visitors must always adapt?

With no one agreeing on so many variables, it's no wonder this game never saw an Evo.

Sigh... I guess I just see things differently.

 

[Ristamar]

So much for appreciation of depth.

Everybody has their own rules, right down to the core scoring system (stock\time). People want to ban different characters, stages, and items.

How are you supposed to enjoy the game as much when you aren't on your home turf? Visitors must always adapt?

With no one agreeing on so many variables, it's no wonder this game never saw an Evo.

Sigh... I guess I just see things differently.

Conversely, this level of customization is one of the game's greatest strengths. These options exist and are easily changeable because people want to make use of them. Besides, most people often confer with the friends they play with most often when making house rules. Afterall, house rules are worthless if no one wants to play under said rules.

 

[Trevelyon]

How are you supposed to enjoy the game as much when you aren't on your home turf? Visitors must always adapt?

Actually myself & a friend who plays fairly regularly have basically set the rules over hundreds of hours of play time & we've both agreed on the rules we've decided. If we're to play a bunch of casuals, we'd probably just play default rules... though I think my rules, for me at least, filter out the real pointless & frustrating aspects of the game.

 

[slayn]

visitors adapt because they want to... everyone I know now calls for my rules and I have yet to play with a person that didn't think it was great.

the random characters aspect is to even the playing field. If everyone is fiercely equal in ability, then its not neccisary, but when the playing field isn't so level, even two suck people can beat two decent people if the right random characters appear.

most of the rules applied, are to increase depth and neccisary skill and remove randomness. Items are looked down upon because if a hammer falls right on top of you... well that was because of no fault to your opponent. Other items are less cheap but can still be cheap to some degree.

and then generall in most people's rules, the moving levels are banned because so many unexpected things can happen to cause someone to win. Its sorta like forcing people to call their shots in pool, people that are good at pool don't wanna lose because their opponent smashed the ball as hard as they could and accidentally have everything work out flawlessly.

and if you must know, there ARE huge SSBM tourneys

level selection limited, usually stuff like final destination is choice.
no items
team damage on when playing 2v2
no characters banned

 

[Ristamar]

I love the items... I leave 'em all in. The chaos is wonderful, especially with 4 players. Much hilarity ensues. I definitely understand leaving out the vertically scrolling stages (Ice Mountain, Rainbow Cruise, and PokeFloats). They're often annoying, though we still play them now and then.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

What I meant when I said that I "see things differently" is that when I see a game that is meant to be played competively, I imedietely look past the small groups of friends playing in a den and to the tournement scene.

Tourneys need set rules.

We had a little smash tourney at my college some months back, and every single competetor that I talked to (myself included) had issues with the rules and gametypes that were selected. Everybody would have rather played a tourney that was at least somewhat different than what was presented.

This problem can apply the most popular tourney games as well, I'll use SC2 as my example.

It's pretty clear to everybody the first time they play a game like SC what the universal rules will end up being. The time limit may be switched off, the number of rounds can vary, and often the console specific characters will be banned. However, none of these things really affect the strategy of any player because the core gametype cannot be changed.

No obviously, a strong promoter of Smash will assert that one of the game's formost strengths is its customization and that the core game can be shaped this way and that to either maximize the fun of a particular group or extend the game's overall life.

So my point is that, while greatly respecting all of Smash's options, all serious smash players will nearly invariably nurture their own gametypes and rules, often leading to the frustration of a visiting player.

I find this an unfortunate side-effect of Smash Bros depth.



I totally trounced Dark10x in that tourney BTW What what !!

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

most of the rules applied, are to increase depth and neccisary skill and remove randomness. Items are looked down upon because if a hammer falls right on top of you... well that was because of no fault to your opponent. Other items are less cheap but can still be cheap to some degree.

and then generall in most people's rules, the moving levels are banned because so many unexpected things can happen to cause someone to win. Its sorta like forcing people to call their shots in pool, people that are good at pool don't wanna lose because their opponent smashed the ball as hard as they could and accidentally have everything work out flawlessly.

I must insist that removal of randomness is decreasing the game's depth. When you take out things that you feel threaten your game, you are removing a part of the game instead of learning to deal with it. The game didn't become 4 player and include auto scrolling maps on accident. Those things were put there because a certain randomness were intended to be part of the game.

I don't think that pool analogy quite works, BTW, but I get your gist.

 

[drohne]

back in the college dorm days, when there was actually a point to the n64, smash brothers never really took with my gaming circle. like most games, it was in rotation for about a week before we went back to goldeneye and the odd bit of mario kart battle mode. i dig the nostalgia factor, but otherwise it seemed totally confusing and spastic, the sequel all the more so. i'd like to see what i'm missing, but my gaming life and my social life have diverged, and it hardly seems like a good single player game. oh well.

 

[Bob White]

the most replayable multiplayer game ever.

To you.

 

[Hero]

SSB:M > *

 

[Bob White]

Street Fighter Alpha 3 > SSBM

 

[sc0la]

from 1999 to 2003 SSB and SSBM where my most played games.

We logged hundreds of hours spanning at least 10 people and 3 different SSB carts.

EDIT: just checked Melee. 271 hours playtime.

I am sure SSB original had a significant amount more logged, but the cart isn't here right now for me to check.

 

[slayn]

I must insist that removal of randomness is decreasing the game's depth. When you take out things that you feel threaten your game, you are removing a part of the game instead of learning to deal with it. The game didn't become 4 player and include auto scrolling maps on accident. Those things were put there because a certain randomness were intended to be part of the game.

I don't think that pool analogy quite works, BTW, but I get your gist.

if randomness adds depth, then smash brothers with everything turned on must have far more depth than Virtua Fighter, and MK: DD is the most depthful racer to date.


randomness is removed because it forces the player to rely solely on their skill. They can't just get lucky and win. Imagine a tourney finals best out of 3 where a weaker player beats the most skillful player solely because they happened to have the right items sitting next to them. There would be outrage.

imagine any other fighter where two opponents are fighting and for one of the rounds when both are near dead one of the players has a heart drop on them at a critical moment and they are put back at full life. If such options existed in other games, they too would be banned from all tourneys.

 

[Ristamar]

imagine any other fighter where two opponents are fighting and for one of the rounds when both are near dead one of the players has a heart drop on them at a critical moment and they are put back at full life. If such options existed in other games, they too would be banned from all tourneys.

I agree with what you're saying, yet at the same time, I think dealing with "shit happens" randomness of the game demands certain skills and strategies of its own (not that I'd want it in Street Fighter or Soul Calibur, but it suits Smash Bros. perfectly, IMO). Anyway, more to the point.... Are there (m)any "official" SSBM tournaments that allow item use?