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SNK's 16-bit console port comparisons

lazygecko

Member
Spinning off of this thread comparing the Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter 2 ports. One thing I don't like about comparing Street Fighter in particular is due how Capcom treated their Sega ports more or less as afterthoughts by just carrying over SNES code and assets (people even found specific Super Nintendo disclaimer leftovers by looking inside the game with hex editors) without much care for properly optimizing and utilizing the different hardware.
While they weren't as high profile as either Midway (MK) or Capcom at the time, I think it's a safe bet that most would consider SNK the only serious quality alternative to Capcom's fighters at the time. SNK commisioned Takara to develop the SNES and Genesis ports (I don't know if they also did the PC Engine/Turbografx CD ones), and JVC Musical Industries to do the Sega CD editions that appeared. And I would generally say that they technically did a much more impressive job with carrying over the Neo Geo titles to 16-bit hardware compared to how Capcom ported down from their CPS hardware. The several hardware versions of the games are all markedly different from one another and seem to be better inherently tailored for their respective systems, which makes the differences much more interesting to compare. I'm not gonna bring up the PC Engine ports much in the OP since I have next to no hands on experience with them, so I'd rather someone more savy with that system take a look at those.

Fatal Fury 2

fatalfury2snestaqo8.gif
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From left to right - SNES / Genesis

Dual video of both versions running back to back

Visually the SNES obviously looks significantly better from a color standpoint. Genesis version uses a more grainy kind of style which can look pretty rough, like you can see on that statue in the background. Genesis version has slightly larger sprites though. The background props inbetween the two planes are sometimes omitted from the Genesis version as well, like you can see with that pole on the raft there. Genesis version uses dithered shadows while the SNES one uses rapidly flickering ones to give the impression of transparency. Other than that presentation wise, the SNES version has a snazzier more animated character select screen, while the Genesis version has a cool animated intro sequence you don't see in the other version.

I did check some screens of the PC Engine version, and it looks like the sprites in that one are even slightly bigger than the Genesis sprites, so that's one area where it wins out. Or maybe the screen is just stretched and I'm too stupid to notice it. Here's a pic with the PC Engine, Genesis and SNES sprites next to eachother:
fatalfury2spritesf6qkj.gif


Sound-wise the Genesis version has the issue with scratchy sounding sample playback, although it's far from as pronounced as it usually tends to be, and is otherwise pretty good. SNES samples are cleaner if a bit more muted and filtered, thus less clear. The consensus I've seen in discussion tends to be that people like the music in the Genesis version better.
Near as I can tell, they both play identically, although a more discerning Fatal Fury veteran could probably correct me on that.

Fatal Fury Special

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From left to right - SNES / Sega CD

Video: SNES / Video: Sega CD

This is pretty much both the Turbo and Super equivalent of FF2. Apart from making the endboss Krauser playable, it also adds Ryo from Art of Fighting and reintroduces Duck King from FF1 as playable characters. There was no Genesis cartridge version for this one, but instead JVC ported it to the Sega CD addon.
It's hard to tell at a glance, but it looks like the sprites and backgrounds in the SNES version were redrawn or otherwise edited and slightly improved from Fatal Fury 2. The Sega CD version however is a world of difference. It utilizes the higher Genesis resolution mode of 320x224, and also occupies all of the screen estate without black bars. The character sprites, backgrounds, everything is redrawn to be significantly bigger and more detailed. Not only that, but it's also a lot smarter with how it uses the still more limited color palette, so it looks a lot better than FF2 Gen on that front as well. For some reason the Sega CD version still often lacks the prop elements though.

Sound-wise is where it gets weird though. The SNES version has lower fidelity voices than FF2 and thus more filtered, and in addition to that Takara also used some of the worst implementation of SNES reverb I have ever heard on the system. Everything sounds like it's being reflected in a tin chamber or something. The Sega CD version is, considering the nature of the hardware, even weirder. The music is fine as it's redbook audio recorded directly from the Neo Geo original, and it starts off promising as you hear the clear announcer voice just like the Neo Geo version during the character select screen. Once you get ingame though thinks take a real turn for the worse. The voices/sound effects are actually significantly lower quality than Takara's FF2 Genesis cartridge port. Everything is aliased to hell, and 90% of what you're hearing are the digital aliasing artifacts instead of the actual sounds buried underneath them. I don't know what the hell JVC did here when the Sega CD has much more advanced sample playback capability than the base Genesis.

Samurai Shodown

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From left to right - SNES / Genesis / Sega CD

Video: SNES / Video: Genesis / Video: Sega CD

This is where things get really interesting. You'll notice that the SNES characters are really small. Like, abnormally small even for the system. The Genesis version meanwhile uses the higher resolution, with much bigger sprites and background art. Not only are the sprites big and detailed, but they're pretty well animated too. But to compensate for this, the characters don't seem to have as many unique types of animations. Haohmaru for example doesn't have his jab/thrust medium attack. Instead it's just slashes at different speeds. Logically this would also mean losing gameplay elements, since this also affects stuff like timing and hitboxes. I don't know if the Genesis version lacks anything more gameplay/system-wise since I'm far from a SS power player, but people describe the SNES version as playing more like the Neo Geo original. There's one more important difference here as well in that both the Genesis and SCD ports omit the character Earthquake who is really, really huge and likely goes beyond the hardware sprite limit at that level of fidelity. One can only speculate, but it almost makes sense that Takara deliberately gimped the character sizes in the SNES version to make room for (both in terms of screen and rom size) Earthquake's art assets. So the SNES version gets a unique advantage there. It also has the special count down game mode which isn't found in the other versions.
The sparse traditional Japanese music sounds great on both the SNES and Genesis. But for the few more filled out western-style tracks, it comes closer to the stereotypical average quality on both systems. The SNES version also has the same issues with the sound effects as Fatal Fury Special with the low quality filtered voices and awful reverb. Seems to be a recurring thing with Takara's late-era SNES ports. The Genesis version on the other hand has surprisingly great sample quality. The playback is near crystal clear (apart from the noticeable clipping inherent in the samples, though I don't regard it as distracting at all since typically classic martial arts movie SFX is just as distorted), and the port's SFX is very, very sample heavy. Not just voices but also the impacts, sword slashes, sprinting footsteps, etc. Easily the best sounding fighter on the system.

And third we have JVC's Sega CD port, which is different from the ground up compared to Takara's cartridge version (as opposed to most Sega CD versions of games that also existed on the Genesis). Same resolution but more screen space, with even bigger sprites and even more animation frames thanks to all the CD space, and doesn't omit unique animations like the Genesis does, thus the gameplay remains more arcade accurate. It still doesn't have Earthquake like the SNES version does though. Overall, the graphics are superior to the Genesis version but there are some isolated elements that seemed to be executed better by Takara. For instance you can see the snow dunes in the screenshots are just a simple color gradient on the SCD. And in some cases the color applications stick out as garish compared to Takara's colors. The SCD version also doesn't have the background referee character like the other versions.
And then we have the exact same problem with awful aliased sound effects like in Fatal Fury Special CD. The Genesis sounds are exponentially better, which again just feels ironic considering the gap in sound hardware between the two.

That's about all I'll fit in the OP. There are several more games to compare, and perhaps even those Neo Geo games that SNK didn't develop themselves like World Heroes. I just picked the ones I found most interesting. There's also Art of Fighting which has SNES, Genesis and PC Engine. Art of Fighting 2 is a SNES exclusive port and also Japan-only (Ryuuko no Ken 2). And of course there's Fatal Fury 1.
 

entremet

Member
The Neo Geo and Sega MD/Genesis shared a similar processor--the Motorola 68000 family.

The Genesis also had a higher resolution, so this may explain the more accurate porting.
 

jett

D-Member
this

Even with the Genesis version sound awful (poor voices and music), it was miles ahead of the SNES version

Even back in the day, as a 12 year-old with no access to the intertubes, you could tell there was something utterly fucked with the game's sprites.
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
The Fatal Fury games felt closer to the Neo-Geo versions on the Genesis and were also uncensored (this is pretty much just Mai in FF2/FFS on SNES). The SNES version of FFS also had a weird soundtrack, that was redone to work in surround sound, IIRC. It just sounded bad compared to the FF2 port. It's also worth noting that the Genesis version of FF2 let you play as all four bosses.

BTW, Fatal Fury Special in general didn't just add Krauser as a playable character. It made the four bosses (Axel, Billy, Lawrence, and Krauser) playable, then brought back Duck King, Tung Fu-Rue, and Geese, and added Ryo from AOF as a hidden boss.

But it really depends on the game. I thought AOF1 was a better port on the SNES. World Heroes was better on the SNES too. A lot of people trash Samurai Shodown for its zoomed-out sprites, but I still preferred the SNES version. The Genesis version had some pretty bad audio too. Both versions pretty much sucked, looking back, though. The Sega CD version also sucked and the 3DO version was a choppy mess. I always thought it was funny how it didn't even use the game's arranged soundtrack despite being a CD release.

One thing that Takara should be noted for is its portable iterations of these games. They did a pretty awesome job porting various titles to the Gameboy and Game Gear. Earlier titles like Fatal Fury 2 and Samurai Shodown didn't exactly play all that well compared to the originals, but were still fun in their own right and had all of the characters/moves/stages, plus bonus content. The Game Gear port of Fatal Fury Special was really impressive for the time. It didn't have all the characters, but looked great and played pretty well. The Samurai Shodown port unfortunately was nowhere near as good.

But Takara nailed it with World Heroes 2 JET. It had the entire cast and all the levels/content from the original game, shrunken down to 8-bit super-deformed form, and played phenomenally well. It even got an EGM Silver award when it got released in the U.S., being praised for its game play IIRC. You could even play it on the Super Gameboy and use two controllers for versus. It was awesome! Following this game, all the other GB Neo-Geo ports played great. Takara even got to the point where they had the '3D' line-sway system intact for their port of Real Bout Special. These ports were amazing and I was always sad that Capcom never got them to work on ports for them as well. The SF2 Gameboy port was total garbage.
 
Can't speak on the SNES versions, but Takara worked some major magic on those Sega Genesis ports. They were really good considering the hardware of the originals they were ported from.
Plus, the bosses were playable unlike the arcade, which was REAAALLY cool. They even had some different moves compared to their Fatal Fury Special counterparts (when the bosses officially became playable).

Billys Genesis FF2 Super Move was cool...jumping power geyser (instead of his now classic flaming staff). Lawrence Blood didn't have his Bloddy Cross super...instead, he stabbed the living crap out of you Zanretsuken style, which is way cooler.

The Sega CD version of Fatal Fury Special was plagued with some of the worst loading times I've seen. And, for some reason I couldn't stop playing it, lol.
 
Yeah that SNES SamSho was such a disgrace but I played the shit out of it because it's my only choice. I'm so happy that I now own a consolized MVS so I can properly play these Neo Geo classics.
 

lazygecko

Member
A lot of people trash Samurai Shodown for its zoomed-out sprites, but I still preferred the SNES version. The Genesis version had some pretty bad audio too.

I see people keep saying this but I really don't understand what they mean here. The samples are almost but not quite as clean in terms of playback quality as the SNES version, but they make up for this marginal disadvantage by having inherently more crisp and well-defined sample fidelity. The SNES samples are filtered to hell and lack definiton, like most of Takara's later SNES ports do. The lower fidelity a sample is on the SPC sound chip, the more heavily it will be subject to filtering to mask the aliasing artifacts that come out of that. They likely increased the variety of voice samples used in their later SNES games which takes more memory, so they had to compensate for this by lowering quality across the board.
 

Gren

Member
As a kid who only had an SNES, SamSho on Genesis was definitely something I was jealous of back in the day. I'm sure they were both less-than-stellar gameplay-wise (what with all the animation frames that had to be sacrificed), but even from just looking at magazines I thought the Genesis version looked better.

EDIT: I remember seeing those Takara super-deformed ports for the Gameboy. Thought it was a much better approach in making the characters legible on the handheld hardware, rather than trying to replicate the graphics of their more realistic arcade/console counterparts.
 

KingJ2002

Member
great post... I remember having FF Special, SamSho, Art of Fighting & World Heroes on the snes and what you mention is spot on... the games were so different from the arcades that I would still drop quarters to get the better experience at my laundromat.

Art of fighting had larger sprites... but the game had a crappy framerate, lost the zoom feature and the characters lacked so many frames it looked like people were fighting with paper dolls... it would be unplayable today.

Arcade Perfect was a god send during the DC era.
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
I see people keep saying this but I really don't understand what they mean here. The samples are almost but not quite as clean in terms of playback quality as the SNES version, but they make up for this marginal disadvantage by having inherently more crisp and well-defined sample fidelity. The SNES samples are filtered to hell and lack definiton, like most of Takara's later SNES ports do. The lower fidelity a sample is on the SPC sound chip, the more heavily it will be subject to filtering to mask the aliasing artifacts that come out of that. They likely increased the variety of voice samples used in their later SNES games which takes more memory, so they had to compensate for this by lowering quality across the board.

I should clarify-- I mean the music specifically.
 
Viewpoint on the Genesis was a pretty competent port graphically, but the audio, as compared to the Neo-Geo original, was just horrible.
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
EDIT: I remember seeing those Takara super-deformed ports for the Gameboy. Thought it was a much better approach in making the characters legible on the handheld hardware, rather than trying to replicate the graphics of their more realistic arcade/console counterparts.

I'm sure this wouldn't have been popular enough, but I would have preferred that the 16-bit ports went all 'chibi' and followed the same art style.
 

cireza

Member
Takara really did great ports on the Genesis. Played Fatal Fury a lot when I was a teen. Huge sprites !
 

Lyte Edge

All I got for the Vernal Equinox was this stupid tag
Viewpoint on the Genesis was a pretty competent port graphically, but the audio, as compared to the Neo-Geo original, was just horrible.

Sammy themselves handled this port, IIRC. It was pretty awesome and the music was great for the system. I loved this port and played the shit out of it on my Nomad.
 
Makes you really appreciate what SNK did with the stereo mix in the original games. Having to hear the insanely high fires in the background of Gen-an's stage on the Sega CD version, for example, is a little overwhelming.
 
I heard the SNES version of Sam Sho was actually closer to the OG in terms of gameplay because the zoomed out view enabled all the characters and spacing. You couldn't retreat as far away in the Genesis version because of the lack of zoom.

Art of Fighting 2 for Super Famicom pulled off the zooming in a not so jarring way. Check it out here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZnkGkQtAqo

The sprites are squashed down but still look pretty damn good for SFC/SNES.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
I own an AES, and all of the games mentioned here. I owned them on Genesis as well. I can say that, despite Joe being cut and no 2 v 1 mode, FF1 on Genesis was pretty spot on.

As for Sam Sho, nothing compared to the real thing of course, but I prefered the Genesis simply for its bigger sprites than SNES. The SNES ones were ridiculous.

I believe AoF actually played better on SNES. The controls and input lag are hilariously terrible on Neo Geo. I love them for atmosphere and dunno why else but god damn this was a fucking bad franchise. AoF2's AI, thats not even meant to be fun.
 

Timu

Member
Fatal Fury 1 is better on Genesis.

Fatal Fury 2 and Samurai Shodown are better on Genesis as well.

Fatal Fury Special is an odd one.
 

Veal

Member
I always liked the KO music in the SNES version of SamSho and I don't think that particular track is in any other version of the game.
 
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