Support NeoGAF

[Drizzlehell]

Honestly, I understand Konami's decision to choose Bloober Team as the developers for the Silent Hill 2 remake. It makes sense to me. The Medium had a vibe that closely resembled that of Silent Hill 2, long before the remake was even considered. I appreciated The Medium's clever puzzle design, beautiful art direction, creepy atmosphere, and intriguing story. It was a good game that I had a great time with.

The same can be said for all of Bloober Team's horror games, which are memorable and contain brilliant set pieces. In my opinion, they are among the best examples of the first-person horror adventure genre. Some may criticize the games for their light gameplay, but I find this complaint to be rather narrow-minded. It's like criticizing point and click adventure games for not having sections where you race cars or shoot people like in Doom. While some may not enjoy this style of gameplay, I don't think it necessarily makes the game bad. Besides, I'm sure there's gonna be plenty of monster-whacking in Silent Hill 2 remake, so don't you worry. It's not like the actual combat was ever such a high priority in those games. It was there mostly because it was one of the things that was expected of the genre at the time and it always felt a bit clunky and under cooked.

Now, I get that, historically, Konami renting out this IP to western developers rarely ended well, and I'm there with you. I absolutely hated everything that came out of this franchise after Silent Hill 4, and handing something's that's often referred to as one of the best video games of all time to yet another ESL developer just sounds like a bad idea, especially since Konami is just full of them these days. But seriously, you probably couldn't find a bigger OG Silent Hill junkie around here if you tried. I even helped to run one of the biggest local Silent Hill fan communities for a few years. I was absolutely obsessed with this series back in the day. And, to be quite honest with you - with Bloober giving this a shot? I'm feeling kinda positive about it.

Obviously, I'm not putting my full trust in them just because it's such an precious game, both to me and millions of other fans, and messing around with it is like trying to spin a bunch of plates in a speeding off-road vehicle. You're just begging to get fucked up. And even with Ito and Yamaoka on board, I'm still concerned about it, but I think that Bloober is at least the most capable team to ever attempt a western-developed Silent Hill game.

 

[Alexios]

Most of their games have shit or next to no gameplay and this is a gaming forum. I don't think going from layers of fear to silent hill 2 is a natural progression at all. Hopefully they can overcome their lack of know how or good design by aping the original and/or Capcom's remakes very closely

 

[Robb]

I’ve only played The Medium from them and while it wasn’t horrible it wasn’t all that great either.

 

[Gobjuduck]

Bloober and The Medium got hate because it was a not so impressive Xbox timed exclusive. Console war stuff, now that they are working on PlayStations silent hill remake, you’ll see some weird shifting opinions.

 

[kanjobazooie]

Their games are good, but people want Silent Hill’s return to be great.

I personally think SH2 Remake will be an enjoyable experience.

 

[Topher]

Bloober and The Medium got hate because it was a not so impressive Xbox timed exclusive. Console war stuff, now that they are working on PlayStations silent hill remake, you’ll see some weird shifting opinions.

 

[Flabagast]

I like them, they have some of the best artists in the industry imho. Some visions from Observer & Medium are striking and burned in my brain, you cannot really find something like it anywhere else.

Although yes the writing of their games is not so good, but I am sure they will improve over time.

 

[kunonabi]

Every game they've made is terrible and the trailer and pre-release statements are already raising red flags. Could they surprise us? Sure, but I wouldn't put money on it.

 

[Arsic]

I’ve yet to like any of their games. Boring AF.

 

[brian0057]

They're like 1-3 in the "good game" department?
Was there any other reason needed?

 

[Jimmyisback]

The hate only began when they announced the Medium timed exclusive for the Xbox platform.

 

[Alexios]

The hate only began when they announced the Medium timed exclusive for the Xbox platform.

Yes I'm sure you loved them when they were showcasing stuff like this, not only after the Xbox platform timed exclusive

 

[Drizzlehell]

Most of their games have shit or next to no gameplay and this is a gaming forum.

Uh, no, they do have gameplay. Or are you one of those people who don't consider game to be a "game" unless you give wedgies to monsters?

Their games are good, but people want Silent Hill’s return to be great.

I personally think SH2 Remake will be an enjoyable experience.

Honestly, the actual gameplay was always the least contributing factor to what made Silent Hill great. What made them great was the atmosphere and depth of its storytelling and psychological horror, and I think that Bloober has what it takes in those departments.

Also, I would argue that SH2 was never meant to be an "enjoyable" game. Profound, terrifying, and thought provoking? Sure. But not really fun in the same way that Resident Evil or Dead Space is.

I like them, they have some of the best artists in the industry imho. Some visions from Observer & Medium are striking and burned in my brain, you cannot really find something like it anywhere else.

Although yes the writing of their games is not so good, but I am sure they will improve over time.

The good thing is that this time they are working with a great source material and have one of the original creators supervising so unless they're planning to make some questionable and drastic changes to the story then they should be fine.

 

[Jimmyisback]

Yes I'm sure you loved them when they were showcasing stuff like this.

I'm mainly talking about the hate that seems personal. Not talking about disliking certain games they have made.

 

[Alexios]

Or are you one of those people who don't consider game to be a "game" unless you give wedgies to monsters?

Nah, I play lots of great games without enemies, or fighting them, good strawman though. Their horror games were sad attempts to copy Amnesia/Soma and they failed and had crap or next to no gameplay but were awesome for streamers to feign being scared so got popular is all.

 

[Mr Moose]

The hate only began when they announced the Medium timed exclusive for the Xbox platform.

 

[adamsapple]

All of their games have been received poorly both critically and technically. Also The Medium touched upon some pretty fucked up material Tries to humanize and make the player sympathize with a child molester

 

[Drizzlehell]

Nah, I play lots of great games without enemies, or fighting them, good strawman though. Their games were sad attempts to copy Amnesia/Soma and they failed and had crap or next to no gameplay but were awesome for streamers to feign being scared so got popular is all.

And how exactly Amnesia and Soma have more gameplay than, say, Observer or The Medium? I'm beginning to think you never even played those games yourself.

 

[Skifi28]

I normally don't reply with 15 minute videos, but it goes into great detail of what's wrong with bloober. I don't agree with everything in the video myself, but some of the stuff detailed is a tad concerning.

 

[Alexios]

And how exactly Amnesia and Soma have more gameplay than, say, Observer or The Medium? I'm beginning to think you never even played those games yourself.

Idk why you consistently ignore the "or" in my posts to make a stupid point. Leave me alone if you're gonna be so disingenuous and fanboy-like. Enjoy their games and allow others to beg to differ without stupid accusations. I should have known better from the Op I suppose so that's on me. O well.

 

[lh032]

their movie games.

 

[Danjin44]

I never played their game but I hate how Konami just hands their most iconic IP to unknown developers.

 

[Thief1987]

Most of their games have shit or next to no gameplay and this is a gaming forum. I don't think going from layers of fear to silent hill 2 is a natural progression at all. Hopefully they can overcome their lack of know how or good design by aping the original and/or Capcom's remakes very closely

It's not like SH2 has good or deep gameplay, it's mostly a walking sim with bad and junky combat. So pretty good fit for Bloober.

 

[Bridges]

I don't hate them, but their games are kinda boring and lower budget and people worry that if they take on their favorite franchise then those games will also be kinda boring and lower budget.

I don't buy the claims that this is a console war thing. I think there is plenty of that behavior here towards Xbox releases, but specifically in the case of The Medium that game was just blah, and most people who played it know that that's true regardless of where it launched first. Plenty of concern going around then being on Silent Hill also, which does look better than their usual output. They are punching way above their belt with that though so it's no surprise people are skeptical.

I actually enjoyed their Blair Witch game though. I hope Silent Hill remake turns out to be good (and eventually ends up on Xbox).

 

[TexMex]

Their entire resume is bad to mediocre and they’ve been tasked with handling the remake of what many consider one of the best horror games ever made. If you enjoy their games that’s fine, but most people definitely do not.

 

[Drizzlehell]

I normally don't reply with 15 minute videos, but it goes into great detail of what's wrong with bloober. I don't agree with everything in the video myself, but some of the stuff detailed is a tad concerning.

Ugh, I only watched from where you linked up to a point where he started attacking them for having a patent on an idea that they came up with, as if no company in the history of video games ever filed a patent on a gameplay feature. What the hell kind of a complaint is that, lol. And claiming that they're just copying ideas they've seen elsewhere? What ideas? The first person camera? That's just mad disrespectful to the artists and designers who worked on those games. Fuck that guy.

 

[Skifi28]

Ugh, I only watched from where you linked up to a point where he started attacking them for having a patent on an idea that they came up with, as if no company in the history of video games ever filed a patent on a gameplay feature. What the hell kind of a complaint is that, lol. And claiming that they're just copying ideas they've seen elsewhere? What ideas? The first person camera? That's just mad disrespectful to the artists and designers who worked on those games. Fuck that guy.

I meant to link from the beginning. I'd suggest watching all of it. They're the equivalent of youtubers, chasing popular trends while many ideas or assets border on plagiarism.

 

[Mr Moose]

 

[Elder Legend]

Their games are good, but people want Silent Hill’s return to be great.

I personally think SH2 Remake will be an enjoyable experience.

Question - what is the difference between good vs great mice balls when you touch them?

On topic - Blooper Team has been consistently releasing junky horror titles that just feel very unpolished. Gameplay is also kind of snoozefest.

Nothing they've ever released in recent memory has been recieved well or gotten good ratings.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Idk why you consistently ignore the "or" in my posts to make a stupid point. Leave me alone if you're gonna be so disingenuous and fanboy-like. Enjoy their games and allow others to beg to differ without stupid accusations. I should have known better from the Op I suppose so that's on me. O well.

Because I'm specifically harping on the "next to no gameplay" point. I don't care what you actually think of those games, but I think that saying that they have no gameplay is the actual disingenuous thing that's being said here.

 

[kanjobazooie]

Nothing they've ever released in recent memory has been recieved well or gotten good ratings.

Observer got a bunch of 8s and 9s.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Nothing they've ever released in recent memory has been recieved well or gotten good ratings.

Layers of Fear - 74/7.2 average on Metacritic, very positive on Steam
Observer - 78/7.6 average on Metacritic, very positive on Steam
Layers of Fear 2 - 70/6.8 average on Metacritic, mostly positive on Steam
Blair Witch - 69/6.3 average on Metacritic, mostly positive on Steam
The Medium - 75/7.1 average on Metacritic, very positive on Steam

Call me crazy but those don't seem like bad ratings.

And I know it sounds like I'm defending them a lot but many people around here seem to have a really huge hate-boner for that company, to the point where you can see flat out incorrect statements like these. I'm just here to set the record straight.

 

[Alexios]

Because I'm specifically harping on the "next to no gameplay" point. I don't care what you actually think of those games, but I think that saying that they have no gameplay is the actual disingenuous thing that's being said here.

So you consistently ignore the or because they have different games and I didn't specify which have the crap gameplay and which have the next to no gameplay but you deliberately apply the wrong characterization to the wrong game to pretend you have a point. You still don't. Move on.

 

[BreakOut]

First and foremost patterning game ideas they didn’t come up with. Hurting the industry by locking out other developers from using a fun mechanic that would be great for other games.

Shit, that’s probably why they got the gig, they have that patent and silent hill will use it.

 

[Drizzlehell]

So you consistently ignore the or because they have different games and I didn't specify which have the crap gameplay and which have the next to no gameplay but you deliberately apply the wrong characterization to the wrong game to pretend you have a point. You still don't. Move on.

Why don't you speak plainly and tell me which one of those games had "next to no gameplay", then.

If you think that some of them had shit gameplay than that's fair. I'm not here to convince you otherwise, which is why I'm not interested in that side of the argument.

 

[Arachnid]

They're like 1-3 in the "good game" department?
Was there any other reason needed?

Even that range is being generous. I've given them multiple tries and it's been trash every time. The Medium looked promising thanks to all it's SH influences, but it just ended up being the final straw.

They are seriously the last horror dev I'd want on SH, and Konami gave them the golden child to remake. Mind blowing.

 

[Alexios]

Why don't you speak plainly and tell me which one of those games had "next to no gameplay", then.

If you played more of their games you'd intantly know (or deduce it from my first comment but you're more about ignoring and misinterpreting than reading). Idk why you'd apply it to two games I never named just to intentionally make a dumb point and accuse me of bullshit like you kept doing.

 

[Danjin44]

Toyama, please save us!

 

[light2x]

They have a lot to prove, simple.

 

[Drizzlehell]

I meant to link from the beginning. I'd suggest watching all of it. They're the equivalent of youtubers, chasing popular trends while many ideas or assets border on plagiarism.

I did but it still sounds like he's reaching with many of those arguments, and he's being really manipulative with the editing and narration just to put Bloober in the worst possible light. Idolizing P.T. while being completely dismissive of Layers of Fear, or saying that it's okay if an entire genre is born out of everyone copying Resident Evil but when Bloober does the same with P.T. then they're hacks (it's nice to have double standards), or criticizing them for making derivative shovelware games back when they were still a tiny fledgling company that was yet to make their breakout game.

The only valid argument that he has there was the Raiders still, but that might as well be considered an easter egg, considering that they haven't done that anywhere else in the game and the image it's not even the main focus in the game itself. I honestly can't even remember seeing it anywhere in the game. Layers of Fear 2 was also one giant homage to cinema history so obviously it will have plenty of references to it, so yeah, I call bullshit on that one. His arguments only grow thinner with each subsequent game (seriously, how dare he dismiss Observer as "just Blade Runner", what a fucking dick).

 

[Elder Legend]

Layers of Fear - 74/7.2 average on Metacritic, very positive on Steam
Observer - 78/7.6 average on Metacritic, very positive on Steam
Layers of Fear 2 - 70/6.8 average on Metacritic, mostly positive on Steam
Blair Witch - 69/6.3 average on Metacritic, mostly positive on Steam
The Medium - 75/7.1 average on Metacritic, very positive on Steam

Call me crazy but those don't seem like bad ratings.

And I know it sounds like I'm defending them a lot but many people around here seem to have a really huge hate-boner for that company, to the point where you can see flat out incorrect statements like these. I'm just here to set the record straight.

They may be not bad ratings, but the reality is that in today's day and standards anything that receives under 80 as an average is considered a critical failure/mixed bag. Gamers don't really perceive the 70s as a good rating. I am sorry but jf God of War Ragnarok came out and it was in the 70s average it would be considered a colossal failure for a game of that magnitude. Perhaps it's not as bad for more smaller devs.

If I was making a game in today's day and I was the owner of the company and our title recieved 70s as an average I would be very upset.

 

[Drizzlehell]

They may be not bad ratings, but the reality is that in today's day and standards anything that receives under 80 as an average is considered a critical failure/mixed bag. Gamers don't really perceive the 70s as a good rating. I am sorry but jf God of War Ragnarok came out and it was in the 70s average it would be considered a colossal failure for a game of that magnitude. Perhaps it's not as bad for more smaller devs.

If I was making a game in today's day and I was the owner of the company and our title recieved 70s as an average I would be very upset.

Except we're not talking about giant triple-A games like God of War but small indie horror games. The audience for those tends to be a bit more niche and specific. In most other places I've seen, their games seem to be liked well enough, with only Layers of Fear 2 and Blair Witch being more of a mixed bag, so these scores are more or less accurate, and not some imaginary scenario in which 7-8/10 is somehow mediocre.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Anyway, this thread will either age terribly, or it will be a very cathartic case of "told ya"

I guess time will tell.

 

[M1chl]

Observer is by far the best "walking simulator".

I would rather get another one, since Silent Hill is perfectly playable today. But well, I guess remakes it is then.

 

[Drizzlehell]

If you played more of their games you'd intantly know (or deduce it from my first comment but you're more about ignoring and misinterpreting than reading). Idk why you'd apply it to two games I never named just to intentionally make a dumb point and accuse me of bullshit like you kept doing.

I played all of their games. I just brought up two specific examples for comparison, not sure how's that being manipulative. I've been giving you every opportunity to engage in a discussion and provide concrete examples of their games that you thought had little to no gameplay, but so far you've just been nitpicking the conversation, so who's not being earnest here?

And for the record, I don't think any of their games are any lighter on gameplay than Amnesia or Soma. Both of Frictional's games revolve around exploration and very basic puzzle solving, with an occassional monster encounter peppered throughout, which is exactly what you will see in all of Bloober's horror games too.

 

[Clear]

They may be not bad ratings, but the reality is that in today's day and standards anything that receives under 80 as an average is considered a critical failure/mixed bag. Gamers don't really perceive the 70s as a good rating. I am sorry but jf God of War Ragnarok came out and it was in the 70s average it would be considered a colossal failure for a game of that magnitude. Perhaps it's not as bad for more smaller devs.

If I was making a game in today's day and I was the owner of the company and our title recieved 70s as an average I would be very upset.

It kinda depends really on whether the meta is comprised of consistent 7/10's, or a mixture between 5/10's and 9/10's. As to me at least, that looks like 2 very different stories in terms of reception.

You're totally right about it being different for big versus smaller/indie titles, but that I think is mainly because there's a chronic lack of experimentation and risk-taking at the top-end budget-wise. Everyone just *has* to love it, which means the devs have to give the people what they expect...

Also the whole idea of universal acclaim as the highest achievement is pretty fucked in my opinion when so many critics these days will mark down in order to make statements about their pet beliefs and causes.

As to Bloober, I wouldn't have chosen to partner with them because they just aren't particularly good at anything beyond the aesthetic, and it being a Silent Hill 2 remake, the aesthetic already exists so what do they bring to the table exactly? They don't seem like a good choice to elevate the action component for example, which was something of a weak-point in the original.

I don't doubt Bloober can nail the "look", but I'd feel a lot more enthusiastic were it being done by a studio like Bluepoint who have long since proven their bona-fides in trying to be respectful AND technically really competent.

 

[brian0057]

Even that range is being generous. I've given them multiple tries and it's been trash every time. The Medium looked promising thanks to all it's SH influences, but it just ended up being the final straw.

They are seriously the last horror dev I'd want on SH, and Konami gave them the golden child to remake. Mind blowing.

The only game of theirs I actually like is Observer.

 

[CherryFalls]

Shitty walking sims imo

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I like Observer, Blair Witch, Layers of Fear, and the Medium. But in my mind, they are bloated 7 out of 10's that could've been trimmed down to sleek 9's. Hoping they show some restraint with Silent Hill 2.

Horror doesn't improve through repetition, but Bloober seems to think so.

 

[e0n]

The real question is who else was going to remake SH2? Konami isn't going to give it a studio that's already owned by a major publisher or that will limit it away from Sony consoles. There's pretty much no prolific horror developer that can output good graphics and consistently makes 80+ metacritic.