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Spiderman 2 at 360p with DLSS4
- Thread starter MMaRsu
- Start date
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
This is why I'm convinced the PlayStation handheld is going to be a serious device.
Bojji
Member
Will it have nvidia hardware?
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Looks absolutely incredible for a 360p image. Bodes very well for Switch 2 games.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
it's not really 360p though. It's 1080p output.
That's not how dlss works. The resulting image cost is way way more than raw 360p image would be. And uses ton more vram too.
I've noticed that DLSS uses about as much vram as TARGET resolution, rather than base resolution.
If I run Indiana jones at 4k with quality DLSS, it goes over vram. If I run raw 1440p, it's just fine.
That's not how dlss works. The resulting image cost is way way more than raw 360p image would be. And uses ton more vram too.
I've noticed that DLSS uses about as much vram as TARGET resolution, rather than base resolution.
If I run Indiana jones at 4k with quality DLSS, it goes over vram. If I run raw 1440p, it's just fine.
It's sort of like being back in 2002 watching a DivX reencode of a MPEG2 Rip of a DVD source. Every now and then there's a moment of clarity, mixed with block artifacts everywhere.
Which isn't so different from when DF did Control at... 540p or whatever it was. It's like taking all the things TAA is supposed to fix (temporal artifacting and IQ) and reinject them back with a vengeance as macroblocking.
These comparisons would be interesting with a raw native comparison (for that true retro feel - what WOULD Spiderman2 look like on a PS2, c'mon we all want to know) - but then that would require turning off TAA and most modern games without TAA would probably start looking like that first version of Jedi Survivor with PSSR, just at much lower resolution.
Which isn't so different from when DF did Control at... 540p or whatever it was. It's like taking all the things TAA is supposed to fix (temporal artifacting and IQ) and reinject them back with a vengeance as macroblocking.
These comparisons would be interesting with a raw native comparison (for that true retro feel - what WOULD Spiderman2 look like on a PS2, c'mon we all want to know) - but then that would require turning off TAA and most modern games without TAA would probably start looking like that first version of Jedi Survivor with PSSR, just at much lower resolution.
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LordOcidax
Member
Sony is going to shift to Nvidia?
Bojji
Member
It uses more vram than internal resolution but LESS than target native resolution. Differences are game dependent, more or less.
Of course it's not real 360p but for sure it uses less resources than native 1080p.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
yeah yeah that's more/less what I meant.
Xdrive05
Member
This is proof that Nintendo really needs to get a Transformer model to be performant on Switch 2. I know they have a patent for a custom model, but not sure if it's a CNN type approach or more Transformer based.
I bet this would look just fine in handheld mode 360p upscaled on an 8" screen. And then docked could aim for more like 720p upscaled to 1440p or thereabouts, and look relatively good even on a 4K set.
I bet this would look just fine in handheld mode 360p upscaled on an 8" screen. And then docked could aim for more like 720p upscaled to 1440p or thereabouts, and look relatively good even on a 4K set.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
No, but it'll have PSSR, which is already impressive, but will be even more so in another two years.
Bojji
Member
Performance regression on Ampere is small. But of course we don't know how switch hardware class will behave:
Will it? PSSR was custom made for PS5 Pro and requires lot of memory bandwidth to work (according to Mark Cerny himself), handheld may not have it.
PS6 handheld will most likely use UDNA so FSR4 maybe?
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ThisIsMyDog
Member
To much artifacts for it to be fine, you still do not want to go below Performence mode even with new DLSS model.
If this table is real, it indicates this might be mostly memory bound. The fact 2080TI only loses single digit %s, as does the 5090 - while having something like 7x less AI compute isn't speaking for compute being a bottleneck.
Which also bodes - poorly - for handheld implementation (if any).
Shaki12345
Member
Watch Sony overproduce it like the Vita. Making the device too expensive for what it can offer and without major 3rd parties willing to take a financial risk of supporting it.
Lokaum D+
Member
LordOcidax
Member
The only way that Sony can launch a handheld is if they take the hybrid path and then you are going to see PS fans accusing the system of holding back the PS console of the moment
.
daninthemix
Member
PSSR at 360p input is not something anyone wants to see.
Stuart360
Member
Even with normal DLSS, some games can look surprisingly good at 360p with DLSS. Check this vid of AC Mirage at 1080p with ultra performance DLSS from 6:06 -
Having said that, you can still see a lot of shimmering on the fiolage and Spiderman in the Spiderman vid. Although obviously it still looks way better than native 360p.
Having said that, you can still see a lot of shimmering on the fiolage and Spiderman in the Spiderman vid. Although obviously it still looks way better than native 360p.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It depends on how much people are sensitive to general IQ artefacts, ghosting, smearing, etc…
The lower the base resolution the worse the tradeoffs…
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cormack12
Gold Member
And this is what gets me. If you're the type of person who can justify the latest GPU prices because you can notice the difference, then there is no way you fall into a bracket of being OK with the downsides of frame gen and upscaling.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I'll bet you anything that the PS handheld will use PSSR.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
It doesn't need to be 360p.
What you're looking for is the right balance of IQ and power requirements and battery life.
ThisIsMyDog
Member
There is big difference between upsalling lets say 360p to 1080p and 720p to 1080p, you wont see a lot of artifacts with DLSS4 if any at second option.
Buggy Loop
Member
Performance regression on Ampere is small. But of course we don't know how switch hardware class will behave:
Will it? PSSR was custom made for PS5 Pro and requires lot of memory bandwidth to work (according to Mark Cerny himself), handheld may not have it.
PS6 handheld will most likely use UDNA so FSR4 maybe?
That chart is already outdated with drivers btw.
DF will have to make a 2h video on DLSS 4
Stuart360
Member
Yeah for sure, and i wouldnt use ultra performance dlss at 1080p even if i had a patato PC.
But actual native 360p is like 120p above a PS1 game, and looks way worse that the Mirage and Spiderman vid.
Not many people would play like this though obviously, but its ineresting to look at.
viveks86
Member
Any indication on what the new numbers look like?
Tarin02543
Member
what a stupid game
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
Gonna go get that new 360p tv!
PeteBull
Member
Switch 2 dreams of games looking as good xD
Hawking Radiation
Member
Spider-Switch 2
Soltype
Member
So it uses 360p as the base resolution to build up to other resolutions?
Bojji
Member
360 is Ultra performance mode for 1080p output res. 360p is native res that is used by DLSS to reconstruct to 1080p, but usually there are some elements in games that are rendered in higher resolution (output) than geometry - that's one of the reasons why 360p->1080p doesn't perform like native 360p (it requires more resources).
"Normal" CNN DLSS produced results like this few years ago:
Buggy Loop
Member
I think Transformer model got a boost. Although I think also CNN model got better with 571.96, so the end result is that transformer model caught up and above old CNN but CNN also got a boost. End result though is that it has to be evaluated again for the whole RTX series.
For low end RTX like a laptop 3050 it seems to have improved. So new CNN is faster but maybe requires more GB/Banwidth? More tensor cores?
Is it more compact VRAM wise? Less banwidth? His laptop has 4GB VRAM. Could spell even better news for Switch 2. If that video is legit, they are roughly equal in frametimes for same quality.
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