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[RoadHazard]

Maybe making the game into a GaaS and rushing it out was the "bad fit".

 

[Pejo]

"Bog Standard Ripoff" ... even though he made FFXIV one of the most successful MMO's of all time ... right

Successful, totally agree. Subtract all of the stuff from it that was also in WoW first. See what you're left with, that's all I'm saying.

Well that’s certainly a take. I wonder if you hold Ed Boon in similar contempt after making his “bog standard ripoff” of another game.

I don't think YoshiP did anything bad necessarily. He was tasked with making the disaster that 1.0 was a financial success, he definitely did it. Credit where it's due.

That said, as a huge FFXI fan, I couldn't be more disappointed how the final product for FFXIV turned out. Opinions 'n stuff.

 

[Swift_Star]

You would be able to play it on almost any device. Hardly gatekeeping going on here.

Sure, Jan.

 

[[Sigma]]

 

[captainraincoat]

Damn, those are some harsh words. Square gonna sell them to Microsoft

Nah….edios Montreal would be much better
GoG is my game of the year

 

[saintjules]

I would have loved to see Insomniac tackle it.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Nah….edios Montreal would be much better
GoG is my game of the year

 

[jigglet]

Square owns IO Interactive, one of the best GaaS game makers out there.

They sell IO Interactive.

They choose a dev that has little GaaS experience to make a GaaS game.

They complain.

Square logic.

 

[Punished Miku]

Next year: Platinum Games was a bad fit for the GAAS model.

 

[lh032]

hey i dont really care if microsoft acquire CD, they are not really good anyway imo.
Tomb raider is a good game but not even my favorite series, they have yet to make a good game for a long time.

 

[Strider Highwind]

It took them that long to finally put out the FInal Fantasy 7 Remake when everyone has been begging for it how long?....And now they want to tell us they screwed up with the Avengers

Perhaps...just perhaps...they should gauge the gamers reaction to these things and actually implement it into their strategy.

 

[kiphalfton]

Ruthless.

 

[Bragr]

Remember when they said the 5 million sales or so of the Tomb Raider reboot was disappointing? Square Enix hates Crystal Dynamics for some reason.

 

[Danteyke223]

Next year: Platinum Games was a bad fit for the GAAS model.

That's a Japanese company. You'll never hear that sentence from Square Enix.

But they'll throw IO and every other western dev under the bus, while burning money on anything that is Japanese.

 

[jakinov]

Game as a service model is a bad fit for any game.

The model is great. Like any model or even any genre, some studios are better than others at it. It's not the models fault that there's technial problems, it got inital bad press for having ugly character models, for having boring gameplay All GaaS means is that they will continue to add content to a game in hopes to make more money over time. Nothing inherently wrong with that.

 

[Elder Legend]

Game as a service model is a bad fit for any game.

Fortnite and Sea of Thieves would like to have a chat with you.

 

[jakinov]

Remember when they said the 5 million sales or so of the Tomb Raider reboot was disappointing? Square Enix hates Crystal Dynamics for some reason.

5 million is good for an indie game or a Japanese game but it's not that great for big budget western game, espcailly one from California.

 

[Vaelka]

Let Japanese devs try.
I'd like to see Japanese devs get to make a Tomb Raider game too.

 

[Editaur]

Enjoyed some small parts of Avengers but it was the biggest case of a game trying to be everything and was left with no identity.


....Also some of the worst writing in any video game.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Every Sony studio would be horrible at GaaS.

You need to hire some guy in Taiwan that was born in the USA that jerks off to Anime.

 

[ANDS]

Problem isn't live service or whatever.
The problem with the game lies with the terrible content and combat designers.

. . . content that was meant to be tied to a GaaS game. SE comment is douchey, but CD didn't really set the game out in the wild with a solid post-game grind (how many times did they think people wanted to fight Taskmaster or The Abomination).

 

[BreakOut]

The game was the wrong fit for gaming period

 

[Icymanipulator]

I actually agree with them.

 

[TheGodfather07]

crystal dynamics are a completely average studio imo. how did square sell IO and not crystal dynamics instead? terrible decision. i know they thought they could hit it big what an uncharted clone of tomb raider but it clearly hasnt worked out.

 

[WorldHero]

I'm pretty sure Square was behind the MTX, but I digress...

 

[EDMIX]

Serious question: has any $60 dollars GAAS game ever worked?

Many have worked, they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't have massive success stories.

Its something I think can work well with certain teams and IP, but GAAS is simply a different word for MMO or online game, nothing about any of the games even fucking coming out today, is that different then what we got from MMOs 20 years ago.

Rainbow Six Siege is the biggest money cow of ubisoft

Agreed, that and the likes of The Division moved like 20 million units.

It can work for certain IP and certain teams that have a history of online games

Bernd Lauert I disagree, I think its just a bad game in general. Its not like GAAS was the ONLY thing fucking the game up and it was this Game Of The Year, Spiderman destoryer otherwise or something, nothing in this game is even near the level of greatness that Spiderman or Arkham series is to really make it sound like online was the real kicker, I think its just a bad game period.

 

[Bragr]

5 million is good for an indie game or a Japanese game but it's not that great for big budget western game, espcailly one from California.

? 5 mill is a big deal. Indie games rarely top 5 million, 60 dollar games is considered a big success if they reach 5 mill.

 

[trikster40]

I’m glad they’re just now realizing that. Maybe let them do what they’re good at next time…

 

[SafeOrAlone]

You keep figuring it out, Square. Meanwhile, we will be supporting the ever living crap out of Spidey 2 and Wolverine.

 

[kunonabi]

Crystal dynamics is a bad fit for most things really.

I still have no problem with an Avengers title being an GAAS. Marvel has so many heroes, villains, locals, alternate costumes, etc. that the game could live on on for years without seeing all of it. Problem is they made a bad game with terrible character designs, boring locations and mission design, and what only 3 villains for like the whole first year of the game?

 

[DAHGAMING]

Game as a service model is a bad fit for any game.

You are the speaker of truths my prophet.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Square throwing CD under a bus for failing with a GaaS cash machine, but the game sucked ass and Marvel super heroes have never been more popular. It could have worked.

Has goddamn Spider-Man even come out yet?

 

[iHaunter]

I mean, they were just the publisher no?

 

[Green_Eyes]

Well I think Square Enix was the wrong fit for even receiving the license. Incredibly greedy company that shamelessly milks their main franchise, sacrifices quality to churn out titles (new Chocobo GP looking like a cheap mess is one of the latest examples), haven't made a decent mainline FF since XII, made people wait 23 years for an FFVII remaster/remake only to release it as a multi-part turd and have now mounted Yoshi P's back as they realise that he's probably the only real directorial talent left in the whole company...

...(eat it Nomura):

Edit: Also, people seem to be loving CD's take on GoTG...so maybe shoehorned GaaS systems are just suck, SE? Hmm?

 

[BadBurger]

They're right. Crystal Dynamics has spent many years working on Tomb Raider games (none of them even all that great, to boot).

 

[Phase]

Thats how games are failing nowadays.

They don't look at new ideas, new ways to catch their consumer interest or being inovative.

They only look at the money. They just look where the money is, goes with the flow and nothing more.

See the development process has flipped in recent years.

It used to be: come up with idea for game > create game > RELEASE > maybe add paid content in addition to finished game

Now it's: Create/use profit making systems, schemes > develop game around these > figure out what parts of game could be cut and sold in parts after release > RELEASE > continue working/fixing unfinished game
Is the game good? Squeeze it for all it's worth. Is it bad? Abandon it.


Slowly but surely the AAA space turned from art to business, and it's why the quality has dropped across the board. Thank god the art is still thriving under smaller companies with the freedom to create their vision from beginning to end.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Any GAAS game would be an infinitely better title, far more memorable, and fun if they weren't GAAS.

GAAS is a cancer that needs to die and the fact that there are people actively *championing* for it in here is pathetic.

 

[jakinov]

? 5 mill is a big deal. Indie games rarely top 5 million, 60 dollar games is considered a big success if they reach 5 mill.

Which is why is why 5 million is good for an indie game.

A big budget $60 game selling 5 million copies in west is usually either okay or disappointing. Far from bad. Far from a big success. Other publishers have been disappointed with far more. $60 a game is rougly $200M in revenue to the publisher (subtract royalties, and retailer/digital cut), not every game sold was actaully sold at full price because we're talking over multiple years so it's signficantl less. Add on maybe 5-60M for marketing. Estimated budget is around $100 million. We're looking at tens of million in profit but that's over the whole dev cycle of what 4-5 years, and 1-2 or whater years it took to hit 5 milions which is shit reward for the risk. They could have took sigfnicantly less risk and got comparable or more returns elsewhere with the money they put in.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Let Japanese devs try.
I'd like to see Japanese devs get to make a Tomb Raider game too.

I definitely agree. Japanese companies and companies in general should allow more Japanese developers to try certain games. I would really like to see a Japanese developed Tomb Raider and yes, I actually like the modern Tomb Raider games.

 

[Meicyn]

Successful, totally agree. Subtract all of the stuff from it that was also in WoW first. See what you're left with, that's all I'm saying.

I don't think YoshiP did anything bad necessarily. He was tasked with making the disaster that 1.0 was a financial success, he definitely did it. Credit where it's due.

That said, as a huge FFXI fan, I couldn't be more disappointed how the final product for FFXIV turned out. Opinions 'n stuff.

If we used your reductionist approach, if you subtract all the stuff from FFXI that was also in Everquest first, see what you’re left with.

If you would protest such thought as a FFXI fan, you’d be right to do so. FFXI was built as Everquest but FF from the very outset after Sakaguchi played Everquest and wanted something similar. But FFXI outgrew that mold and became something larger over time. FFXIV may be a themepark MMO that uses WoW as a template, but it has become something much larger than that. The design approaches to content produced, player retention mechanics, and even story are a canyon wide. They may both be tab-target MMOs, but they look, feel, and play differently in the same way Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat look, feel, and play differently.

 

[Pejo]

If we used your reductionist approach, if you subtract all the stuff from FFXI that was also in Everquest first, see what you’re left with.

If you would protest such thought as a FFXI fan, you’d be right to do so. FFXI was built as Everquest but FF from the very outset after Sakaguchi played Everquest and wanted something similar. But FFXI outgrew that mold and became something larger over time. FFXIV may be a themepark MMO that uses WoW as a template, but it has become something much larger than that. The design approaches to content produced, player retention mechanics, and even story are a canyon wide. They may both be tab-target MMOs, but they look, feel, and play differently in the same way Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat look, feel, and play differently.

The flaw in your argument is that I'm not nor would I ever say that FFXI wasn't an Everquest template game. You seem to have an issue with the fact that I claim FFXIV is a WoW Template game. So we actually agree.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

Some exec passing the blame.

Did they give examples of why they were the wrong fit? What should have been done differently?

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Squeenix is the wrong fit for any Western developer.

 

[Meicyn]

The flaw in your argument is that I'm not nor would I ever say that FFXI wasn't an Everquest template game. You seem to have an issue with the fact that I claim FFXIV is a WoW Template game. So we actually agree.

Not really. This is you doing the reductionist approach again. Templates are starting points.

You used the word ripoff as a chosen descriptor. I’m old enough to remember when Mortal Kombat came out in the arcades, and when one of the kids in my class decided to be the resident comedian, claiming that it’s just a Street Fighter ripoff. Hilarious.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Them hiring high quality VAs was also probably an L. At least with Guardians the VAs are literal nobodies and they blew a shit load of money on the music licenses.

 

[Pejo]

Not really. This is you doing the reductionist approach again. Templates are starting points.

You used the word ripoff as a chosen descriptor. I’m old enough to remember when Mortal Kombat came out in the arcades, and when one of the kids in my class decided to be the resident comedian, claiming that it’s just a Street Fighter ripoff. Hilarious.

You're either purposefully being obtuse or getting stuck in the specifics. My point was that the success of FFXIV:ARR was due to largely taking WoW and making a generic theme park gear treadmill game with Final Fantasy coats of paint. Sure it got its own identity over time and has some differences, but that's what YoshiP did.

"bu..bu..but you said 'rip off' "

 

[Fare thee well]

Yea, you really have to see humans as objectified money dispensers if you want games as a service to work. I can help clarify how to do it successfully:

1) Blow all your money into beautiful textures, graphics, and characters.

2) Apply only about 5-10 repeating radiant quests for an extremely slow and long progression.

3) Deprive players of any fashion or style that looks good. Save that for the gem/diamond/ruby/pearl/shard/etc store.

4) Be sure to show lots of media and images of people with endgame content and store-gear looking cool and doing awesome things.

5) Promise lots of changes and upcoming content that will improve gameplay loops, combat balance, and variety.

Profit.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Damn, those are some harsh words. Square gonna sell them to Microsoft

I sure fucking hope so. I've always felt from the beginning this was the missing piece to complete The Initiative. They're an incredible developer.

 

[Hayabusabruh]

For me the early parts of the game was literally on it's way to being like a 8/10 before it went the stupid route.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Serious question: has any $60 dollars GAAS game ever worked?

To me GAAS makes sense when the game is free, so you can reach tons of people, like Fortnite, Apex, Warzone and etc.

Free + GAAS model is the new norm for almost every online multiplayer game going forward.

I think that the new Battlefield will fail 'cause charging $60 for an online only game in 2021 is archaic. 1 years from now and servers will be like deserts.

Overwatch sold like 40 million copies and is still relatively popular.

People will spend money if there's enough buzz around launch. Most of todays GAAS juggernauts started out with zero hype, which is why free worked so well.