Support NeoGAF

[Leona Lewis]

NG? Maybe. 2I? Fuck no. It had the better backgrounds and some of the best music in the 3 series. Plus Sean was actually decent in that version and I somewhat like its' approach to air parries more.

Not to mention that awesome wide aspect ratio mode.

 

[BluePigGanon]

My impression at the time was that the Alpha series was a lot more popular, and the SF3 series struggled. But I don't know if that was why.

 

[Nuu]

The fighting game market of 1997 was roughly the equivalent of the plastic music game market of 2009.

 

[Rotanibor]

I can give some insight into this, from an Operator's point of view. I was a teenager during this time frame, and worked at the family business. For most operators, the time period that existed during SF2 and Mortal Kombat was still a good one for arcade machines. Quarter drop had begun to slow, but was reinvigorated with the release of those two games. Remember at that time, arcade game platforms were still better hardware than could be found with home consoles. If you wanted to play SF2 with proper controls (joysticks and buttons) and get the full experience, it was arcade or bust.

For those who aren't familiar with arcade hardware, Capcom was using the CPS2 cart system for their games. This started with Super SF2. Operators ended up with a number of those systems, because the price of hardware carts were cheap (relatively speaking), and operators had advance knowledge of games that would be coming out for the hardware. Think along the lines of launch window games now. By the time that Alpha 1 released, things had already begun to slow down again. Most operators saw that the arcade market was dying and basically stuck to cart systems: CPS2 and SNK's NeoGeo system. By the time that Alpha 2 and SF3:NG came out... most operators sided with Alpha 2 rather than an expensive new hardware platform.

I was the guy (well, kid) in charge of picking what arcade game kits we were buying at the time, and I basically forced our company to pickup a CPS3 system with SF3:NG. I can't recall exactly how pricey it was, but we are talking thousands of dollars. Arcade kits weren't cheap; Capcom knew that we would be making money off of them, and priced accordingly. However, you have to realize that it wasn't just the operator making money off of them, there was usually a split of the profits going to the location, and also state sales tax on each play to deal with. Anyways, back to the point: the SF3 kit did terribly. The reason was probably multi-pointed. A dying arcade scene, new advances to the SF system that players weren't used to, and operators that either bought only one kit to try or took a wait and see approach (and bought none). This final point led to limited exposure, which would only make the cycle worse. Why would operators want to spend money on something that really wasn't showing a return on investment, when they could spend $800 or $900 on a new Alpha 2 or 3 CPS2 cart. Most of our arcade "scene" locations were happy to get Alpha 2 instead of SF3, so why waste the money?

By the time that the other 4 CPS3 games would release, most operators (and players) had abandoned normal arcade games completely. Golden Tee golf would arrive on the scene in '97, and go on to dominate. Unless you were an operator in the NYC area, tourist destinations, or the West Coast... there wasn't a player base for fighting games, let alone anything that didn't involve a trackball and golf.

I remember our office got a call from someone at Capcom USA right after SF3 released. My dad put me on the phone with him, and we spent a few minutes talking about the failure of the CPS3 system. I have no proof, but the guy all but said that Capcom JP was going to extend the life of the CPS2 system as long as possible. They knew that the only way to keep pumping out arcade software that operators would buy, would be to basically keep prices as low as possible. That meant CPS2 carts, since that would have been Capcom's best selling platform.

I wouldn't surprise me if some former Capcom employee came out and said that SF3:NG was incomplete and rushed simply to try to get the product out before the arcade slowdown of the mid 90's. They just weren't fast enough to get the hardware out there before most of the market collapsed on itself.

Very nice post. Thank you for your perspective on the history of this.

 

[L Thammy]

I wasn't even aware that Street Fighter III existed until Third Stike.

 

[the androgyne]

I wouldn't surprise me if some former Capcom employee came out and said that SF3:NG was incomplete and rushed simply to try to get the product out before the arcade slowdown of the mid 90's. They just weren't fast enough to get the hardware out there before most of the market collapsed on itself.

That might be true as well, but most every Capcom game of this era was made to feel incomplete by the time a sequel rolled around!

 

[Dai101]

I'm bummed they never released a SFIII collection even if 3rd Strike steals the show. I would love to play NG and 2I.

No, you don't want to really.


Also, if i remember correctly since it's been a while and don't quite remember where i read it, Ryu and Ken weren't supposed to be in the game at all. It wasn't until very disfavorable response from location tests that capcpom decided to include them.

 

[the androgyne]

No, you don't want to really.


Also, if i remember correctly since it's been a while and don't quite remember where i read it, Ryu and Ken weren't supposed to be in the game at all. It wasn't until very disfavorable response from location tests that capcpom decided to include them.

By the time the game showed up for location tests, they were already in it.
Though there were definitely rumours of an entire clean slate cast beforehand.

 

[deadscreensky]

NI are 2I are both worth a play today even just for the art and music, respectively. 3S is a much bigger and better fighter, that's clearly what you would want to learn, but it's also very different in areas like backgrounds, soundtrack, and interface art. It's not like SF2 where revisions just got recolors and tweaks, there are some substantial content changes.

 

[Man God]

They probably fucked up by not just naming Alpha/Zero SF 3.

 

[Man God]

That angle just isn't relevant when SFZ/A3 came out in the middle of the 3 series.

On the cheaper, convertible arcade platform. SFA3 was also a release that ported very well to the Saturn and PS1. Oh and it had the characters people actually liked.

 

[OmnipotentO]

I wonder if increased console power and console ports of classics that started appearing also contributed to the fall of arcades.all of the sudden you could play an ok version of street fighter alpha on your PlayStation. Didn't need to go to the arcade and drop quarters as often.

 

[Man God]

I wonder if increased console power and console ports of classics that started appearing also contributed to the fall of arcades.all of the sudden you could play an ok version of street fighter alpha on your PlayStation. Didn't need to go to the arcade and drop quarters as often.

It's mainly the 3D thing in that case. While the 2D offerings were incredible on home consoles of that generation the sales declined across the board on 2D games. 3D was the next big thing. Note that this lasts about a decade so from 1996-2006 or so where most people just assumed that 3D>2D.

 

[Shadoron]

I wonder if increased console power and console ports of classics that started appearing also contributed to the fall of arcades.all of the sudden you could play an ok version of street fighter alpha on your PlayStation. Didn't need to go to the arcade and drop quarters as often.

This absolutely was a contributing factor. I truly believe that this reason alone is why Golden Tee Golf was such a hit. You couldn't emulate it easily on home consoles, especially with the trackball control setup. Well, that and it was tailored to bar type locations. Most late 80's - mid 90's arcade games were placed in shopping centers, bowling alleys, pizza parlors, and movie theaters. We had a couple video games in select bar locations, but they never did the kind of profit volume that could be found at "kid friendly" locations. Once consoles rivaled and superseded arcade hardware, the living room became the social hangout for kids / teens. Golden Tee Golf was the arcade industry's response to that. Make a game for adults to enjoy in a tavern setting.

 

[Raitaro]

Interesting topic for a thread OP!

Apart from what you are asking, I've always wanted to know how magazines at that time reacted to / covered SFIII actually.

I had no access to American or most UK magazines in those days, or any that covered arcade games for that matter, so if anyone can point me towards some preview or even review articles (or issue numbers) then I'd certainly appreciate it. Even more so would I be interested in reading interviews with the development team behind III, like its directors and character desingers. Maybe this will help me understand why and how they made this sub-series so different (and fantastic imo) in terms of characters and overall feel.

Very nice post. Thank you for your perspective on the history of this.

I agree - love reading personal accounts like this.

I'm bummed they never released a SFIII collection even if 3rd Strike steals the show. I would love to play NG and 2I.

Yeah, I'm still bummed out that Iron Galaxy's Online Edition of 3rd Strike did not become a full SFIII compilation or "Hyper" edition, or that it did not at least offered us the option to select the older (perhaps superior) stages as well.

Just to calrify something:
Both SF3 NG and SFA1 are 'prototypes', you could say they rushed their release; both games had any of their plot stuff retconned in their immediate successor game.

For example, SFA1 had chain combos like what Darkstalkers had, this was removed in SFA2.
SF3 NG didn't even have EX moves making certain characters pretty weak, plus infinites.
Granted they toned various stuff down in 2I but you can see where I'm going here.
Actually SF3 NG's stages were a little interesting; Ryu and Ken shared the same 'location', namely Japan; round 1 would be outside an onsen, Round 2 INSDE an Onsen.
Ibuki's NG stage would cycle through times of the day as well as have various ninjas in the background, this was removed in 2I and the stage is pretty much barren.

This post puts SFV's inconsistent state at launch into a new perspective for me.

It seems that they made use of a similar prototype structure again with V but instead of applying it to the whole game and then either removing stuff or improving upon things in a full "Super" sequel like they would do in the past, the new "game as platform" model might have forced them to apply this prototype phase to just the first character (Ryu) and stage (Bustling Side Street) within the game in the sense that only they have things like blocked move animations and stage transitions.

I'm still hopeful they'll find a way to gradually add such things to the other characters and stages over time via updates though, assuming they do still care about creating a game that is consistent across the board in terms of its design.

 

[Tizoc]

They probably fucked up by not just naming Alpha/Zero SF 3.

but the alpha games are prequels and at one point in development were intended to replace SF1 in the continuity.
Rarely if ever where succeeded numbers in a game series were meant to be prequels during that period

 

[Shadoron]

Apart from what you are asking, I've always wanted to know how magazines at that time reacted to / covered SFIII actually.

The best option for this would be an operator only magazine called "Play Meter." They still publish, and I'm sure you can find back issues very cheaply on eBay. I wouldn't be able to help with exactly which issues would have covered SF3 and it's two sequels, but I'm sure with a little Google-fu you could find them. Your best starting point would be issues just before SF3's release, and obviously during. Play Meter would have covered development rumors, sales, Capcom corporate interviews, and Operator feedback. Developer interviews weren't as big a deal as they are now, so I'm not sure how much of that you will find. Both EGM and GamePro had dedicated sections in their mags that covered arcade games, as well as console. Those two would be more options for coverage, and might contain limited developer interviews too. Probably the *best* source for developer interviews specifically would be something like Famitsu, although the language barrier could be a problem if you don't at least read basic Japanese.

 

[Tizoc]

Interesting topic for a thread OP!

Apart from what you are asking, I've always wanted to know how magazines at that time reacted to / covered SFIII actually.

I had no access to American or most UK magazines in those days, or any that covered arcade games for that matter, so if anyone can point me towards some preview or even review articles (or issue numbers) then I'd certainly appreciate it. Even more so would I be interested in reading interviews with the development team behind III like its directors. Maybe this will help me understand why and how they made this sub-series so different (and fantastic imo) in terms of characters and overall feel.



I agree - love reading personal accounts like this.



Yeah, I'm still bummed out that Iron Galaxy's Online Edition of 3rd Strike did not become a full SFIII compilation or "Hyper" edition, or that it did not at least offered us the option to select the older (perhaps superior) stages as well.



This post puts SFV's inconsistent state at launch into a new perspective for me.

It seems that they made use of a similar prototype structure again with V but instead of applying it to the whole game and then either removing stuff or improving upon things in a full "Super" sequel like they would do in the past, the new "game as platform" model might have forced them to apply this prototype phase to just the first character (Ryu) and stage (Bustling Side Street) within the game in the sense that only they have things like blocked move animations and stage transitions.

I'm still hopeful they'll find a way to gradually add such things to the other characters and stages over time via updates though, assuming they do still care about creating a game that is consistent across the board in terms of its design.

You're forgetting one thing here; Street Fighter 4-
It's initial Arcade release was as complete as could be for the time so it doesn't apply here. The first console release was never intended to be expanded on using DLCs like what they ended up doing with SSF4 going forward.

With SF5 I see it as more of a different matter; all that money Sony gave to Capcom? Capcom went and used it for their other projects. Just looking at SF5 and that it was in development for at least a year, there is no way they couldn't apply the most basic of basic modes required in a fighting game, unless the game's development was moved down in the priority list

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I always understood the Alpha games were pretty much the Vs games of their time.

Its pretty much why the VS Games recycled the Alpha models instead of SF3 ones.

 

[Forkball]

I have no idea why Capcom didn't try to get a home release working until so late considering how many copies SFII sold on SNES and Genesis. Perhaps they were disappointed by Alpha sales, but the fact that it took three years for SFIII to come to a console, and that being the Dreamcast, is baffling. And then Third Strike came out in the states on the Dreamcast only a few months after the first two SFIII games hit the same system. There was no PS2 port until 2004 for NA and that is only bundled with other games. You really had to go out of your way to play this game if you were in the states.

 

[Renekton]

I can give some insight into this, from an Operator's point of view. I was a teenager during this time frame, and worked at the family business. For most operators, the time period that existed during SF2 and Mortal Kombat was still a good one for arcade machines. Quarter drop had begun to slow, but was reinvigorated with the release of those two games. Remember at that time, arcade game platforms were still better hardware than could be found with home consoles. If you wanted to play SF2 with proper controls (joysticks and buttons) and get the full experience, it was arcade or bust.

For those who aren't familiar with arcade hardware, Capcom was using the CPS2 cart system for their games. This started with Super SF2. Operators ended up with a number of those systems, because the price of hardware carts were cheap (relatively speaking), and operators had advance knowledge of games that would be coming out for the hardware. Think along the lines of launch window games now. By the time that Alpha 1 released, things had already begun to slow down again. Most operators saw that the arcade market was dying and basically stuck to cart systems: CPS2 and SNK's NeoGeo system. By the time that Alpha 2 and SF3:NG came out... most operators sided with Alpha 2 rather than an expensive new hardware platform.

I was the guy (well, kid) in charge of picking what arcade game kits we were buying at the time, and I basically forced our company to pickup a CPS3 system with SF3:NG. I can't recall exactly how pricey it was, but we are talking thousands of dollars. Arcade kits weren't cheap; Capcom knew that we would be making money off of them, and priced accordingly. However, you have to realize that it wasn't just the operator making money off of them, there was usually a split of the profits going to the location, and also state sales tax on each play to deal with. Anyways, back to the point: the SF3 kit did terribly. The reason was probably multi-pointed. A dying arcade scene, new advances to the SF system that players weren't used to, and operators that either bought only one kit to try or took a wait and see approach (and bought none). This final point led to limited exposure, which would only make the cycle worse. Why would operators want to spend money on something that really wasn't showing a return on investment, when they could spend $800 or $900 on a new Alpha 2 or 3 CPS2 cart. Most of our arcade "scene" locations were happy to get Alpha 2 instead of SF3, so why waste the money?

By the time that the other 4 CPS3 games would release, most operators (and players) had abandoned normal arcade games completely. Golden Tee golf would arrive on the scene in '97, and go on to dominate. Unless you were an operator in the NYC area, tourist destinations, or the West Coast... there wasn't a player base for fighting games, let alone anything that didn't involve a trackball and golf.

I remember our office got a call from someone at Capcom USA right after SF3 released. My dad put me on the phone with him, and we spent a few minutes talking about the failure of the CPS3 system. I have no proof, but the guy all but said that Capcom JP was going to extend the life of the CPS2 system as long as possible. They knew that the only way to keep pumping out arcade software that operators would buy, would be to basically keep prices as low as possible. That meant CPS2 carts, since that would have been Capcom's best selling platform.

I wouldn't surprise me if some former Capcom employee came out and said that SF3:NG was incomplete and rushed simply to try to get the product out before the arcade slowdown of the mid 90's. They just weren't fast enough to get the hardware out there before most of the market collapsed on itself.

Many thanks for this info.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Apart from what you are asking, I've always wanted to know how magazines at that time reacted to / covered SFIII actually.

The only headline I remember about the game was "most disappointing sequel of the year." The gist of the article was basically "still 2D in 1997?"

Alpha was not the successor to SF2 (obviously), it was more of a spinoff so to speak, so it wasn't really considered competition to SF3.

The official national Japanese tournament and the USA vs Japan championship in 1998 were played on Alpha 3, not SF3. Not really sure where people get this idea in their head that SFA isn't a "main" Street Fighter title just because it doesn't have a number in its (western) name.

 

[NEO0MJ]

It's mainly the 3D thing in that case. While the 2D offerings were incredible on home consoles of that generation the sales declined across the board on 2D games. 3D was the next big thing. Note that this lasts about a decade so from 1996-2006 or so where most people just assumed that 3D>2D.

That's still the general attitude these days. Heck, even cell shaded games are looked down upon for being less real looking.

I can give some insight into this

Great read, thanks. It's crazy how big a failure it seems to be. Only three game series were ever released on it.

 

[Raitaro]

The best option for this would be an operator only magazine called "Play Meter." They still publish, and I'm sure you can find back issues very cheaply on eBay. I wouldn't be able to help with exactly which issues would have covered SF3 and it's two sequels, but I'm sure with a little Google-fu you could find them. Your best starting point would be issues just before SF3's release, and obviously during. Play Meter would have covered development rumors, sales, Capcom corporate interviews, and Operator feedback. Developer interviews weren't as big a deal as they are now, so I'm not sure how much of that you will find. Both EGM and GamePro had dedicated sections in their mags that covered arcade games, as well as console. Those two would be more options for coverage, and might contain limited developer interviews too. Probably the *best* source for developer interviews specifically would be something like Famitsu, although the language barrier could be a problem if you don't at least read basic Japanese.

Thanks for you input. I'll have a look around using your tips when I have time (which is whenever my newborn lets me essentially).

The only headline I remember about the game was "most disappointing sequel of the year." The gist of the article was basically "still 2D in 1997?"

That's what I feared the general outlook would be actually, which must not have helped people get excited for this otherwise excellent game series.

I have no idea why Capcom didn't try to get a home release working until so late considering how many copies SFII sold on SNES and Genesis. Perhaps they were disappointed by Alpha sales, but the fact that it took three years for SFIII to come to a console, and that being the Dreamcast, is baffling. And then Third Strike came out in the states on the Dreamcast only a few months after the first two SFIII games hit the same system. There was no PS2 port until 2004 for NA and that is only bundled with other games. You really had to go out of your way to play this game if you were in the states.

That's indeed another weird variable in the "Why did SFIII never fully catch on" puzzle (most SF fans being averse to change at the time in terms of the roster and people in general being ready to move to 3D graphics possibly being two additional variables I assume).

No idea why they released home versions on just the Dreamcast (assuming they could run in limited, downsized form on a more wellspread system like the PS1 or Saturn as well) and why they released them so close to each other (which for someone like me who never had arcades nearby was especially weird because they seemed to drop out of the sky almost simultenously, making me wonder why I should even bother with Double Impact at all). The fact that 3rd Strike's port turned out quite a bit worse than those of New Generation and 2nd Impact has also always struck me as a bit weird, like they forgot how to keep the original screen ratio and such that they already had mastered in the previous home release.

SFIII truly remains a fascinating release for me, with so many odd or extremely bold decisions surrounding it, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that feels that way

 

[mrmickfran]

Not a SF historian by any means, but I wouldn't be surprised if they released Alpha 3 simply to recoup losses from SFIII since it was apparently a big failure at launch.

Here comes SF Alpha 4 to make up for SFV's launch.

 

[NeonZ]

I have no idea why Capcom didn't try to get a home release working until so late considering how many copies SFII sold on SNES and Genesis. Perhaps they were disappointed by Alpha sales, but the fact that it took three years for SFIII to come to a console, and that being the Dreamcast, is baffling. And then Third Strike came out in the states on the Dreamcast only a few months after the first two SFIII games hit the same system. There was no PS2 port until 2004 for NA and that is only bundled with other games. You really had to go out of your way to play this game if you were in the states.

You might as well ask why they didn't make a downgraded SF3 version for CPS2 Arcades. SF3 didn't perform well even in the arcades, so Alpha was a higher priority. SF3's biggest selling point was the CPS3 hardware itself and the improved animation allowed by it. Making a version of SF3 with sub-Alpha-level animations most likely wouldn't help at all.

 

[Kyonashi]

Not a SF historian by any means, but I wouldn't be surprised if they released Alpha 3 simply to recoup losses from SFIII since it was apparently a big failure at launch.

Does that mean we're about to get Alpha 4?

Here comes SF Alpha 4 to make up for SFV's launch.

dammit

 

[No_Style]

I can give some insight into this, from an Operator's point of view. I was a teenager during this time frame, and worked at the family business. For most operators, the time period that existed during SF2 and Mortal Kombat was still a good one for arcade machines. Quarter drop had begun to slow, but was reinvigorated with the release of those two games. Remember at that time, arcade game platforms were still better hardware than could be found with home consoles. If you wanted to play SF2 with proper controls (joysticks and buttons) and get the full experience, it was arcade or bust.

Thanks a lot for this info! This was an unexpected perspective to see but it was awesome.

I remember our office got a call from someone at Capcom USA right after SF3 released. My dad put me on the phone with him, and we spent a few minutes talking about the failure of the CPS3 system. I have no proof, but the guy all but said that Capcom JP was going to extend the life of the CPS2 system as long as possible. They knew that the only way to keep pumping out arcade software that operators would buy, would be to basically keep prices as low as possible. That meant CPS2 carts, since that would have been Capcom's best selling platform.

I wouldn't surprise me if some former Capcom employee came out and said that SF3:NG was incomplete and rushed simply to try to get the product out before the arcade slowdown of the mid 90's. They just weren't fast enough to get the hardware out there before most of the market collapsed on itself.

I wonder how different things would have been if Capcom forced the release of SFA3 on CPS3 (Forcing compelling software to drive hardware etc) How hot was the Alpha series at that point? Would you have gone out to pick up more CPS3 machines for SFA3 knowing how poor the penetration was for CPS3 at the time?

The notion that SFA3 was created as a reaction to SFIII's poor sales doesn't sit well with me but the decision to release it on CPS2 instead of CPS3 makes a lot of sense if CPS3 wasn't selling. Or perhaps that theory does hold water and SFA3 was green lit to extend the life of CPS2. Hmm...

Again, thanks! But I feel like all these answers are leading to more specific questions and theories LOL.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I wonder how different things would have been if Capcom forced the release of SFA3 on CPS3 (Forcing compelling software to drive hardware etc) How hot was the Alpha series at that point? Would you have gone out to pick up more CPS3 machines for SFA3 knowing how poor the penetration was for CPS3 at the time?

I feel like this misses the point entirely, though.

SFA3 on CPS2 and SF3 on CPS3 existed in tandem for some of the same reasons why previous generation consoles still get a steady stream of new releases for a year or two (or longer) into the next console generation. Not everyone is willing to plunk down the extra cash for new hardware, especially without a killer app. Even more so when it's thousands of dollars per unit in question and operators are looking for a return on their investment.

The appeal (on the operators' side) of SFA3 was the low cost. The appeal of SF3 was the cutting edge tech. The actual gameplay differences and merits aren't as relevant.

 

[Tizoc]

I have no idea why Capcom didn't try to get a home release working until so late considering how many copies SFII sold on SNES and Genesis. Perhaps they were disappointed by Alpha sales, but the fact that it took three years for SFIII to come to a console, and that being the Dreamcast, is baffling. And then Third Strike came out in the states on the Dreamcast only a few months after the first two SFIII games hit the same system. There was no PS2 port until 2004 for NA and that is only bundled with other games. You really had to go out of your way to play this game if you were in the states.

The games didn't release on PSOne because the games were on the CPS3 arcade engine.
Granted JoJo was on the same arcade board as well, however that game appeared to have been more managable on the PSOne hardware than the SF3 games.
I mean heck go look at Warzard/Red Earth and ask yourself how morbid it would've been to port that game to the PSOne and lose all that visual goodness.

 

[Shadoron]

The appeal (on the operators' side) of SFA3 was the low cost. The appeal of SF3 was the cutting edge tech. The actual gameplay differences and merits aren't as relevant.

I can only speak from my personal experience, other operators may have had better situations, but this is exactly the thought process. Most operators didn't care what the game was, as long as it was profitable. CPS3 came out during the transition to 3D arcade hardware as well, which the arcade industry thought was going to be the next "savior." Neither ended up being so.

SF3 really released at the absolutely worst time. It came out during a transition period in the arcades, and was basically ignored by operators and players. I didn't even realize until I checked this thread again, but SF3 didn't release on the Dreamcast until 3 years after its initial showing. That's a long time for people not to have an easy way to play the series.

Another little point to bring up: Street Fighter Zero 3 Upper was released on Sega's Naomi arcade hardware in Japan only. It never made it to the States at all. Shows just how dead the arcade scene had gotten by that time.

 

[Man God]

I've only ever seen one SF3 machine in the wild. Meanwhile all of the arcades had some form of a versus game, if not all of them running.

 

[Shadoron]

I wonder how different things would have been if Capcom forced the release of SFA3 on CPS3 (Forcing compelling software to drive hardware etc) How hot was the Alpha series at that point? Would you have gone out to pick up more CPS3 machines for SFA3 knowing how poor the penetration was for CPS3 at the time?

The notion that SFA3 was created as a reaction to SFIII's poor sales doesn't sit well with me but the decision to release it on CPS2 instead of CPS3 makes a lot of sense if CPS3 wasn't selling. Or perhaps that theory does hold water and SFA3 was green lit to extend the life of CPS2. Hmm...

If the CPS3 system had come out around the time of Alpha 1, it may have had some legs to it. If titles like Aliens v. Predator, the Dungeons and Dragons games, Marvel had been CPS3, it probably would have sold better. Those were all arcade hits for operators, and were all still on CPS2. By the time that Alpha 3 came out, most operators had already moved on. We had multiple copies of Alpha 1 and 2, we never purchased a single copy of Alpha 3. The players just weren't there by the time it released.

 

[oneofthose]

What i find funny is people actually think SF3 failed and killed the franchise because of too many fighting games were being released or the game was too hard to play. The games failed because of the console it was launched on. Most people who casually play did not even know SF3 existed because it was on Dreamcast. By the time it got launched on PS2 in 2004 it was too late.

 

[rhandino]

It was back in the day when you made fighting games all the time because the genre was at a peak. Then it had a hard crash.

I thought that Tekken, Smash, Soul Calibur, etc... continued to make extremely good amount of coins while only SF and Capcom related FG were in the pits.

Or at least that's what I remember.

 

[petran79]

You also forget Street Fighter EX and EX+, released in 1996 and 1997. Though I never saw an EX arcade cab
EX2 was released in 1998, while EX3 (2000) was a console exclusive
SF EX became popular thanks to the console versions

All those new releases really confused the audiences. As if Capcom appealed to two separate fans: those who preferred the popularity of 3D looks and the ones who preferred to remain faithfull to the 2D games.

Even Midway did something similar. They released UMK3 and MK Trilogy, while they were launching their 3D flagship title Mortal Kombat 4.

I can give some insight into this, from an Operator's point of view. I was a teenager during this time frame, and worked at the family business. For most operators, the time period that existed during SF2 and Mortal Kombat was still a good one for arcade machines. Quarter drop had begun to slow, but was reinvigorated with the release of those two games. Remember at that time, arcade game platforms were still better hardware than could be found with home consoles. If you wanted to play SF2 with proper controls (joysticks and buttons) and get the full experience, it was arcade or bust.

For those who aren't familiar with arcade hardware, Capcom was using the CPS2 cart system for their games. This started with Super SF2. Operators ended up with a number of those systems, because the price of hardware carts were cheap (relatively speaking), and operators had advance knowledge of games that would be coming out for the hardware. Think along the lines of launch window games now. By the time that Alpha 1 released, things had already begun to slow down again. Most operators saw that the arcade market was dying and basically stuck to cart systems: CPS2 and SNK's NeoGeo system. By the time that Alpha 2 and SF3:NG came out... most operators sided with Alpha 2 rather than an expensive new hardware platform.

I was the guy (well, kid) in charge of picking what arcade game kits we were buying at the time, and I basically forced our company to pickup a CPS3 system with SF3:NG. I can't recall exactly how pricey it was, but we are talking thousands of dollars. Arcade kits weren't cheap; Capcom knew that we would be making money off of them, and priced accordingly. However, you have to realize that it wasn't just the operator making money off of them, there was usually a split of the profits going to the location, and also state sales tax on each play to deal with. Anyways, back to the point: the SF3 kit did terribly. The reason was probably multi-pointed. A dying arcade scene, new advances to the SF system that players weren't used to, and operators that either bought only one kit to try or took a wait and see approach (and bought none). This final point led to limited exposure, which would only make the cycle worse. Why would operators want to spend money on something that really wasn't showing a return on investment, when they could spend $800 or $900 on a new Alpha 2 or 3 CPS2 cart. Most of our arcade "scene" locations were happy to get Alpha 2 instead of SF3, so why waste the money?

By the time that the other 4 CPS3 games would release, most operators (and players) had abandoned normal arcade games completely. Golden Tee golf would arrive on the scene in '97, and go on to dominate. Unless you were an operator in the NYC area, tourist destinations, or the West Coast... there wasn't a player base for fighting games, let alone anything that didn't involve a trackball and golf.

I remember our office got a call from someone at Capcom USA right after SF3 released. My dad put me on the phone with him, and we spent a few minutes talking about the failure of the CPS3 system. I have no proof, but the guy all but said that Capcom JP was going to extend the life of the CPS2 system as long as possible. They knew that the only way to keep pumping out arcade software that operators would buy, would be to basically keep prices as low as possible. That meant CPS2 carts, since that would have been Capcom's best selling platform.

I wouldn't surprise me if some former Capcom employee came out and said that SF3:NG was incomplete and rushed simply to try to get the product out before the arcade slowdown of the mid 90's. They just weren't fast enough to get the hardware out there before most of the market collapsed on itself.

Was it mandatory to buy the arcade machines? I know a lot of operators who'd rather prefer to lease the cabs for a few months. Especially the more spacious and expensive ones, like some rally and shooters

 

[Shadoron]

Was it mandatory to buy the arcade machines? I know a lot of operators who'd rather prefer to lease the cabs for a few months. Especially the more spacious and expensive ones, like some rally and shooters

This is a good question, I know there were rental versions of CPS2 carts for the S. America market. I honestly don't think they offered them for sale in the US, Asia, and Euro markets though. I feel like we would have purchased some of them if they did. Its been my understanding that the rental versions were more to combat bootlegs, that were running rampant in the S. American markets. I don't think we were given the option, other than buy the kits outright.

 

[MikeMyers]

I thought that Tekken, Smash, Soul Calibur, etc... continued to make extremely good amount of coins while only SF and Capcom related FG were in the pits.

SF3 sruggled, but the Alpha games released in that era weren't in the pits. They were quite popular in arcades and on PS1/Saturn.

 

[No_Style]

You also forget Street Fighter EX and EX+, released in 1996 and 1997. Though I never saw an EX arcade cab
EX2 was released in 1998, while EX3 (2000) was a console exclusive
SF EX became popular thanks to the console versions

All those new releases really confused the audiences. As if Capcom appealed to two separate fans: those who preferred the popularity of 3D looks and the ones who preferred to remain faithfull to the 2D games.

I kept it out on purpose. I wanted to focus on the "mainline" and more "grounded" a Street Fighter series and was wondering why Capcom overlapped the releases when the tradionally kept them distinct and separate. The Ex and Vs series ran at the same time as well but it was quite clear in terms of visual and/or gameplay style that they were separate. My friends, classmates and myself all viewed SFIII and Alpha series as the same lineage.

But yes, just trying to nail do and keep track of all the Street Fighter related games must have been quite the effort back in those days.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Here in the UK, I never even saw a cabinet for SF3 back in the day, let alone had any knowledge there was any Street Fighters entries after 2. Saw plenty for the Capcom crossovers like Marvel vs Capcom, Marvel Super Heroes and X: Men Children of the Atom but SF3? Nope. I remember hearing that was more of a Latin America thing and popular in Brazil than it was here in any Europe territories. Over here we seemed to eat up the light gun and side scrolling brawlers more than the fighting games, at least in the arcades I ever went in to. Having said that, I vaguely recall seeing an Alpha cabinet but can't tell you which one it was. Remember being all confused seeing Final Fight characters in a SF game and me being a kid didn't really click that it was the same developer. SF wasn't huge over here like it was in the Americas (North and South) and Asia.

 

[Syril]

It must have been weird seeing it in an arcade with a marquee banner that looked like this too:

 

[pje122]

I remember that. It definitely was weird.

 

[cordy]

As a kid then (no older than 12) I thought

Alpha series - "Ok, this is similar to SF2T, wow these are fun"
EX series - "Wow SF can go 3D like Tekken now? Great"
3 series (in a magazine) - "Eh...what is this? This looks weird..."

It never resonated with me because even though I saw it in Gamepro and EGM, it just felt off. The fact that Alex was the main, art style, just everything about it felt weird and it didn't feel like Ryu and Ken were that popular. It just didn't feel like SF to me. These days seeing it I can understand it but as a kid back then I just couldn't rock with it.

Now when Alpha 3 came out? Man, I loved that game. Hell, I've probably bought it as a whole maybe 4 times in my entire life which is probably more than I've bought any other game (besides San Andreas which I bought 5 times).

 

[Psxphile]

Not a SF historian by any means, but I wouldn't be surprised if they released Alpha 3 simply to recoup losses from SFIII since it was apparently a big failure at launch.

Now SFV is the big failure at launch... Alpha 4 confirmed in development lol

EDIT: I see we're all on the same page

 

[petran79]

Here in the UK, I never even saw a cabinet for SF3 back in the day, let alone had any knowledge there was any Street Fighters entries after 2. Saw plenty for the Capcom crossovers like Marvel vs Capcom, Marvel Super Heroes and X: Men Children of the Atom but SF3? Nope. I remember hearing that was more of a Latin America thing and popular in Brazil than it was here in any Europe territories. Over here we seemed to eat up the light gun and side scrolling brawlers more than the fighting games, at least in the arcades I ever went in to. Having said that, I vaguely recall seeing an Alpha cabinet but can't tell you which one it was. Remember being all confused seeing Final Fight characters in a SF game and me being a kid didn't really click that it was the same developer. SF wasn't huge over here like it was in the Americas (North and South) and Asia.

There was one cab in London at least, at the mall in Piccadily.
I liked the animation but the gameplay felt very un-SFish. Other FG cabs there (GG Reload, MvC1, Tekken 4, KOF2000) felt more interesting

Even when I got the chance to play the Dreamcast version, I was not excited.
Preferred to play SF EX instead on Zinc emulator.

 

[Introvese]

So the odd number SF games don't perform as well as the even ones

 

[jstripes]

This absolutely was a contributing factor. I truly believe that this reason alone is why Golden Tee Golf was such a hit. You couldn't emulate it easily on home consoles, especially with the trackball control setup. Well, that and it was tailored to bar type locations. Most late 80's - mid 90's arcade games were placed in shopping centers, bowling alleys, pizza parlors, and movie theaters. We had a couple video games in select bar locations, but they never did the kind of profit volume that could be found at "kid friendly" locations. Once consoles rivaled and superseded arcade hardware, the living room became the social hangout for kids / teens. Golden Tee Golf was the arcade industry's response to that. Make a game for adults to enjoy in a tavern setting.

I hung around and worked part-time in an independent video game store in the early-to-mid '90s, and, as there were a few decent arcades nearby, I can correlate their decline with consoles improving.

Street Fighter II X on 3DO, which got TONS of play on one of our demo screens, was the "maybe we won't need arcades..." tipping point. (The system itself sold pathetically, but that game demonstrated the coming change.)

When the PS1 and N64 gained a foothold, the local arcades died off or went adult and focused on sports and pool instead.

 

[petran79]

I hung around and worked part-time in an independent video game store in the early-to-mid '90s, and, as there were a few decent arcades nearby, I can correlate their decline with consoles improving.

Street Fighter II X on 3DO, which got TONS of play on one of our demo screens, was the "maybe we won't need arcades..." tipping point. (The system itself sold pathetically, but that game demonstrated the coming change.)

When the PS1 and N64 gained a foothold, the local arcades died off or went adult and focused on sports and pool instead.

Arcades managed to last some years more in the first decade of 2000, mainly due to the Japanese output. Games like HOTD, Virtua Tennis, Virtua Striker, Rally games, Tekken 4-5 etc

But arcade games produced by Western companies, eg Midway, were already out of place in the late-90s. I was surprised to see Terminator Salvation arcade game. Had not seen a western arcade game for years.

 

[TheSeks]

Here comes SF Alpha 4 to make up for SFV's launch.

I'd be okay with this. 2D Sprites redone in HD as Capcom's last hurrah before they kick the bucket? YES, PLEASE.

 

[jstripes]

Arcades managed to last some years more in the first decade of 2000, mainly due to the Japanese output. Games like HOTD, Virtua Tennis, Virtua Striker, Rally games, Tekken 4-5 etc

But arcade games produced by Western companies, eg Midway, were already out of place in the late-90s. I was surprised to see Terminator Salvation arcade game. Had not seen a western arcade game for years.

Large scale "attraction" arcades, with all the deluxe cabinets and kids party rooms, and big city arcades, with their competitive scenes, lasted into the '00s, but regular suburban arcades absolutely fell off a cliff around '96/'97.