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[Blackace]

I liked Suikoden 3 for what it is worth... I didn't love it... but I liked it... I felt the story was deep enough to make you want to play through it... but the battle system was broken..

 

[Bebpo]

Wild Arms 3 rox, Bebpo sux.

Ok, so how about we divide it like this:

If you think WA3 rox, you will love SO3
If you think WA3 was mediocre, you will hate SO3

Is that fair?

 

[Shouta]

Not really because WA3 =/= SO3.

 

[Tabris]

But I was really refering to the freaks who inhabit the Suikosourse boards. Some of those people have beat all 3 games like 30 times each.

I've beaten both Suikoden and Suikoden II close to 10 times. I've mastered both completly. Level 60-80 for all characters. I've gotten the Clive side story (without mastering of course cause that's impossible).

Here is what I own relating to Suikoden

2x Suikoden I Game
2x Suikoden II Game
1x Suikoden III Game
1x Saturn Import Suikoden I Game
1x Import Suikoden Gaiden I Game
1x Import Suikoden Gaiden II Game
1x Suikoden I Strategy Guide
1x Suikoden II Strategy Guide
1x Flame Champion Plushie Doll
1x Set of Suikoden III Mangas
1x Suikoden II Orizontte Soundtrack
1x Suikoden II OST (2 CD)
1x Suikoden OST
1x Genso Suikoden 108 Star Artbook/Encyclopedia
1x Set of "The Water Margin" (the books in which Suikoden is loosely based on)

 

[DarienA]

Can somebody explain or point me to a good resource on that d*mn battle system(Suik 3)? I thought I might like the game... but even early in I hated and couldn't get a grip on the battle system.

 

[Brandon F]

As I recall, you cluster partnered characters into 3 groups. Within these teams of 2, you can only choose to select an action of 'one' of the characters in battle, and the AI will play out a scripted action for the other character(usually they just run up and attack blindly outside of a few special cases, you have no control over what the AI does). So if you choose healing magic for team A, the partner that casts will do just that, while the other one will just run at enemies and kill stuff. The game leaves it all up to you to experiment with different teams to see which kill indiscriminately, and which hold guard over their partner. An icon or something would have been nice to help out with this, but just assume that whatever partner you DON'T select an action for, will end up run blindly into melee combat.

Let's see, items can ONLY be used on the actual partnered characters, if you want to heal a different pair only magic can reach them(unless there were special items that healed the group...I forget).

Magic takes time to cast, melee attacks require your characters to not only take a certain amount of time to run up to your enemies, but also to swing their sword/axe/dagger/etc.... Not too different from Grandia really, there was a small bar in the bottom of the screen that kind of helped gauge whether your actions would take 1-turn, 2-turns, 3-turns or more to actual complete. Unlike Grandia, there was no corresponding meter showing what the enemies have planned, so the whole thing sort of felt moot outside of displaying magic charge langth. Melee combat never really took great advantage of the system as I remember. You rarely if ever need to focus on that chart at all.

Oh and you CAN upgrade skills with points earned in battle to lessen the amount of time it actually takes melee fighters and casters to actually unleash their attacks. But again this system really added little to melee combat depth, and only magic got real use out of it(casting spells can go from 2-turn charges to insta-unleashing). Melee got some mileage out of the accuracy, combo, and damage upgrades tho...

The support character is a 7th character slot that confered bonuses on the party. Better magic damage and crap like that. They never fight or are seen on screen IIRC, just bonus adjustments for the party of your choosing(dependent on character selection).

It's not all that complex really as I remember it, just needlessly convoluted while providing little reward for thoughtful planning. The AI junk was just annoying moreso than interesting. In the end, this IS still a Suikoden game; and much like the previous 2 entries, auto-combat will probably get abused the most. This series is not really known for invigorating battle strategy.

 

[Shouta]

The one thing that they did do right was the movement/attack ratio. The more you had to to move in a combat round, the less you could attack. The closer the proximity to the enemy, the more you could attack. Too bad there wasn't any sort of positioning system to make use of it. =b

 

[Brandon F]

Yea it's like they wanted to transfuse a quasi-SRPG structure into the gameplay, but did such a half-assed job of it. What you get is an atypical generic turn-based system with features and concepts that reach zero potential.

Though Suikoden 4 unfortunately seems like it will be sheared down to such base levels that the developers may as well just leave combat out of the game. Here is an excerpt I just read from some recent interview with the staff.

Kawano: The battle will be turn based like the rest of the series. For IV, the front line and back line that were in the previous games has been eliminated and we are creating one prioritizing speediness and pleasantness. There is no need to think about somewhat complicated things like how a brawler shouldn’t be placed in the back or how an archer should not be placed in the front. Each will attack accordingly from the best location for their weapons. So there won’t be characters that are underdeveloped due to strategic planning of party creation and you can bring characters of your choice to battle. Also if one chooses the “auto” option, the characters attack automatically and those who are not good with battles can enjoy the story feeling relaxed. For those that want to think of combination for battles, they can find enjoyment with finding out the rune combination attacks and the combo attacks. Along with the 4 member party system, I believe that the battles have been created to be well paced and full of variety.

Maybe I am being too harsh, but man this really doesn't excite me. Maybe the combo stuff will be fun, they certainly helped make Suikoden 2's rather mundane combat feel lively.

 

[BlackTyrano]

I've beaten both Suikoden and Suikoden II close to 10 times. I've mastered both completly. Level 60-80 for all characters. I've gotten the Clive side story (without mastering of course cause that's impossible).

Ha, here's proof that you are not teh ultimate Suiko fanboy. I'm not sure what exactly you mean here by 'mastering' here, but I believe you're mistaken. I actually went to the trouble of making a list of all the things throughout the game that had to be done during a certain timeframe, did it all (even got that recipe that the doridori elves or whatever drop only in one section of Greenhill's (Edit: Not Matilda's, whoops) forest, #34 I think), and easily made it through the Clive quest (I think I got to the last scene about an hour before the requirement). Though I did use the cheat that lets you get to level 30-40 near the beginning of the game. I think there were a few Cooking mini-game matches that had to be done by a certain time, but the rest can be left to the very end of the game.

Oh yeah, add me to the 'Suikoden III was a dissappointment' list. I didn't mind the battle system as much as many here, but the sleep-inducing music and constant backtracking through linear, boring fields ruined the game somewhat, and the storyline was a little *too* repetitive(by design, I know). I was glad to hear the creators of Suikoden IV acknowledge some of the problems that plagued Suikoden III.

 

[Tabris]

I've gotten every single item you can get in the game. Including Recipe #34 from the elves during the Greenhill Liberation chapter.

and yes, I was wrong, Clive quest is possible when mastering, but you do have to do cheats or a lot of reseting to be able to master it at the same time. It lessens the enjoyment of the game, so that's why I haven't done both. I just did up to the Muse chapter (Jowston Hill) of the Clive quest while mastering the game (without cheating or reseting).

 

[Gruco]

Actually I still haven't beaten WA3 to this day. Something like 30 hours in...

Finish up! If you can go back to DQ7 after 17 years or whatever, you can definitely wrap WA3 up soon.

You're probably just getting to all of the really cool Millenium Puzzles and stuff too.....

The main reason I disliked Suikoden 3 wasn't even the combat, it was the horribly tedious straight lines they kept marching you down in those dungeons, over and over....

 

[Fularu]

I've beaten both Suikoden and Suikoden II close to 10 times. I've mastered both completly. Level 60-80 for all characters. I've gotten the Clive side story (without mastering of course cause that's impossible).

Here is what I own relating to Suikoden

2x Suikoden I Game
2x Suikoden II Game
1x Suikoden III Game
1x Saturn Import Suikoden I Game
1x Import Suikoden Gaiden I Game
1x Import Suikoden Gaiden II Game
1x Suikoden I Strategy Guide
1x Suikoden II Strategy Guide
1x Flame Champion Plushie Doll
1x Set of Suikoden III Mangas
1x Suikoden II Orizontte Soundtrack
1x Suikoden II OST (2 CD)
1x Suikoden OST
1x Genso Suikoden 108 Star Artbook/Encyclopedia
1x Set of "The Water Margin" (the books in which Suikoden is loosely based on)

You collection sux without the GBA ones!

 

[Diomedeskun]

The party of four instead of six is very disappointing. It feels like when most RPGs went down to three instead of four with Final Fantasy VII and Chrono Trigger. I have always preferred larger parties, so I loved the six from Suikoden and five from Final fantasy IV.

I have to admit that-while it was cumbersome and unintuitive-I loped the planning required to take advantage of Suikoden 3's battle system. The elements were very unbalanced, but it was exciting to decide if it was worth using fire in a battle or if t was too dangerous, and the balance of Melee/Combos/Offense/Support magic in Geddoe's group made for some wonderful boss fights.

I don't mind the return to direct control, actually I like it, but hopefully it will have battles complex enough that you cannot win always with just autobattle, despite Kawano's comments. The poeple who just want to enjoy the story and not combat would prefer not to have it at all, while others want a battle system with plenty of strategy.

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Actually it was quite bothersome sometimes in Suiko1 and 2 when you wanted 4 close range fighters in the battle. But I'd still prefer six in battle, no matter how they are standing.

As for Suiko fanboyism, I (and my sister) have:

Games:
Suikoden 1 (PAL and US)
Suikoden 2 (PAL and US)
Suikoden 3 (two US copies) (one each of these three are with my sister, she owns one of the Suiko3s)
Suikogaiden 1
Suikogaiden 2

Soundtracks:
Celtic Collection
Celtic Collection 2
Piano Collection
Echoes of Love
La Passione Commuove la Storia (great one, btw)
Orrizonte
Ongakushu by Hiroyuki Namba
Ongakushu by Kentarou Haneda

Books:
Suikoden Encyclopedia
a Suiko 3 character book
a Suikoden cardgame art collection book (my sister's)

Pretty good for someone who didn't really get into Suikoden until last summer...

 

[Neutron Night]

Kawano: The battle will be turn based like the rest of the series. For IV, the front line and back line that were in the previous games has been eliminated and we are creating one prioritizing speediness and pleasantness. There is no need to think about somewhat complicated things like how a brawler shouldn’t be placed in the back or how an archer should not be placed in the front. Each will attack accordingly from the best location for their weapons. So there won’t be characters that are underdeveloped due to strategic planning of party creation and you can bring characters of your choice to battle. Also if one chooses the “auto” option, the characters attack automatically and those who are not good with battles can enjoy the story feeling relaxed. For those that want to think of combination for battles, they can find enjoyment with finding out the rune combination attacks and the combo attacks. Along with the 4 member party system, I believe that the battles have been created to be well paced and full of variety.

What. The. Fuck.

 

[fennec fox]

This should not come as a surprise as (a) J. Kawano is a character designer by trade and, during the times I've talked to 'er, believed that story and world creation are far more important to RPGs than fighting, and (b) Suikoden's fighting system has always emphasized speed over strategy.

When I think of Suikoden I never think about the battles. I think about the story and the characters. That's why I hated the E3 demo as it was almost all fighting.

By the way I am playing Suikoden 2 right now and so I have to recalibrate my cute meter

Ducks <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< cat people <<<<<< squirrels <<< Kuromimi

 

[fart]

let's be realistic here. suiko 3 is a good game heaving under the weight of a TERRIBLE combat system. other than that, it's a good, fun game.

 

[Diomedeskun]

I love Suikoden for the story and world, but a good battle system is imperative for any rpg. Otherwise, you might as well just make a point-and-click adventure instead of an RPG. I don't expect a Grandia or Star Ocean level battle system for Suikoden, but I do want something that is going to make me think and plan.